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What are you most excited about for E3?


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So instead of some people being super happy and some people be super miserable you want everyone to be miserable with no chance of getting better.

I don’t think a pure version of either system is the answer. I think we need to look at both and cherry pick the best parts of each, trying to make a system that will work for everyone.
You realize that if wealth was evenly divided accross the entire population, people wouldn't live in misery, right?
Jeff Bezos has 135.5 BILLION dollars.
There are 7.53 billion people in the world.
If just his money was evenly divided, everyone would have around 17 billion dollars to themselves.
And that's JUST the money of a single person which could be used for every person to live their entire lives without a single worry.

This is what propaganda does to people, it makes them believe in an outcome that isn't even true nor probable. People only live in misery because 1% of the population hoardes MUCH more money than they'll ever need.
 

SnakeFighter64

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You realize that if wealth was evenly divided accross the entire population, people wouldn't live in misery, right?
Jeff Bezos has 135.5 BILLION dollars.
There are 7.53 billion people in the world.
If just his money was evenly divided, everyone would have around 17 billion dollars to themselves.
And that's JUST the money of a single person which could be used for every person to live their entire lives without a single worry.

This is what propaganda does to people, it makes them believe in an outcome that isn't even true nor probable. People only live in misery because 1% of the population hoardes MUCH more money than they'll ever need.
I can’t argue with math. Math is math. There’s only one way to do it and it can’t be stolen.

That said this would only work if we somehow eliminated assholes. I don’t know how possible that is.
 
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I can’t argue with math. Math is math. There’s only one way to do it and it can’t be stolen.

That said this would only work if we somehow eliminated ********. I don’t know how possible that is.
The Russians also gave us that solution 100 years ago: we cut their heads off.

EDIT: wait, no, I was thinking of the French, the Russian just followed the example
 
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D

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Guest
You realize that if wealth was evenly divided accross the entire population, people wouldn't live in misery, right?
Jeff Bezos has 135.5 BILLION dollars.
There are 7.53 billion people in the world.
If just his money was evenly divided, everyone would have around 17 billion dollars to themselves.
And that's JUST the money of a single person which could be used for every person to live their entire lives without a single worry.

This is what propaganda does to people, it makes them believe in an outcome that isn't even true nor probable. People only live in misery because 1% of the population hoardes MUCH more money than they'll ever need.
While on a fundamental level I agree with what you're saying, and I'm kinda nitpicking here, but I'm just wondering about something in your argument; if everyone in the world is now walking around with 17 billion dollars, wouldn't the price for like, everything, increase dramatically as a result, kinda negating the net gain?
 
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Noipoi

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For all you goobers who are here instead of doing anything else on Valentines day, this is for you.

Please Smashboards, accept my V-Card.
 
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Gentlepanda

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Jeff Bezos has 135.5 BILLION dollars.
There are 7.53 billion people in the world.
If just his money was evenly divided, everyone would have around 17 billion dollars to themselves.
i'm no mathematician, but doesn't 135500000000 divided among 7530000000 leave everyone with just $17.99?
 
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Scoliosis Jones

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I was half-joking because at least Jojo doesn't shoot down its own messages.

See what I mean? The only good thing you mention of capitalism is the competitiveness it causes and thus advancements in technology when that's not a necessarily good thing nor is it inherent to capitalism.
How do you think humanity advanced so far before capitalism? The majority of human history is without its presence, in fact, so it's clear we don't need it to continue living.
Humans don't need a system that puts everyone against each other, advancements come from necessity, if we need it, we'll make it, there's no need for a system to force us to advance when said competitiveness gives us products that aren't accessible anyways or ones that aren't as good as they could be if money wasn't the sole motivator for it.

Ethical capitalism is a myth and it cannot exist in a system that allows singular people to hold more wealth than the rest of the world population. It doesn't matter how hard you try because the wealth the system promises you is only attainable through exploitation of others.

And even assuming everyone had the exact same starting conditions and all that mattered was their own "merit", it won't work for future generations. The children that would be born would only have as much opportunities as their parents allow. Is it fair for a child to starve because of the circumstances they were born into?

How can you justify a system than only sustains itself through the exploitation of others? How can you justify a system that bases your worth on how much money you can produce? How can you justify a system that will refuse to give basic human necessities(food, water, clothes, houses) despite them being plenty available? How can you justify a system that will let you die just because it deemed you to be "unproductive"?
I mean, some of those also apply to communism or socialism.

Historically, advancement or opportunities to create money were claimed by the government. As KMDP KMDP mentioned before, the guy who made Tetris was exploited in a similar fashion to the way some people are exploited now in a capitalist system. I’m not defending it as a perfect system. I’d actually argue there is no perfect economic system. The problem is that socialism as a replacement is just as bad of an idea, which is why I don’t buy the “ethical capitalism doesn’t exist, so get rid of it and replace it with an equally bad system”.

Certainly, much of capitalism can be boiled down to privileged individuals benefitting from the work of others. However, I think you’re greatly understating the progress that competition in the marketplace has created. Sure, it’s one thing I mentioned, and granted i’m no economist nor am I an expert. But that’s a really important aspect that capitalism supports.

Not to mention, competition in the workplace is also good, as it generates better job candidates. However, as things have gone unchecked, multiple problems have been produced in the system, including racism, discrimination, among others.

Frankly I think there could be a go between of both systems, as simply having one of the other doesn’t work, and it’s been proven. Either you have a totalitarian government, or an Oligarchy who gets more than the poor saps who have to split everything evenly.

I also simply don’t agree that if I am working harder than somebody else, they still earn as much as I do. Certainly there are other reasons that people don’t have the same opportunities.

Sure, the USA healthcare system is screwed up and shouldn’t be for profit (imo). Education, imo, also shouldn’t be a major focus of profit (hi standardized testing!), but things need to be paid for. Capitalism isn’t entirely evil, and socialism isn’t entirely blessed.

Granted, I think a system with universal income, but additional opportunities for employment would be lovely. If people want to work to own more, allow it. If people want to be lazy and contribute nothing, let them settle for less.

At least no one is dying because they can’t afford medical bills or going hungry.

Basically, it’s not as simple as just “screw this, do that”. There is far more involved than to do that.
 

Buffalo Soldier

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So after yesterday, I'd like to think they've finished all of the back of Joker's render but none of the front. He just has a creepy blank face.
 
D

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NOOOOPE. I’m out. State sanctioned killings is where I draw the line. There is never a good reason to kill someone. Period. You do that then you’re no better than they are.
I'll never get this logic, you'd only be as bad as them if you commited the same attrocities. Or do you think a killer of killers is just as bad as killer of innocent people?
While on a fundamental level I agree with what you're saying, and I'm kinda nitpicking here, but I'm just wondering about something in your argument; if everyone in the world is now walking around with 17 billion dollars, wouldn't the price for like, everything, increase as a result?
No because prices are based on circulating money, regardless of who possesses it. If the prices increased, the value of the money would decrease as a result, which would call for more of it being put in circulation.

Of course, that's assuming this would happen under a governemtn who WOULDN'T be supervising all of this so it doesn't go horribly wrong because redistributing wealth is just one step.
 
D

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TBH the best way to handle redistribution of wealth in an ideal world isn't to give them out to each citizen but more to fund, like, programs and ****

Like healthcare for example should't be for profit, and it isn't in most parts of the world. Fix that ****

I'm sure education could use a couple billion dollars, yeah

Oh yeah also end world hunger dummies

etc etc
 

Gentlepanda

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this thursday, smashboards discusses the renegotiation of global wealth distribution

the lack of smash in the direct hit hard and fast
 

Cutie Gwen

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I mean, some of those also apply to communism or socialism.

Historically, advancement or opportunities to create money were claimed by the government. As KMDP KMDP mentioned before, the guy who made Tetris was exploited in a similar fashion to the way some people are exploited now in a capitalist system. I’m not defending it as a perfect system. I’d actually argue there is no perfect economic system. The problem is that socialism as a replacement is just as bad of an idea, which is why I don’t buy the “ethical capitalism doesn’t exist, so get rid of it and replace it with an equally bad system”.

Certainly, much of capitalism can be boiled down to privileged individuals benefitting from the work of others. However, I think you’re greatly understating the progress that competition in the marketplace has created. Sure, it’s one thing I mentioned, and granted i’m no economist nor am I an expert. But that’s a really important aspect that capitalism supports.

Not to mention, competition in the workplace is also good, as it generates better job candidates. However, as things have gone unchecked, multiple problems have been produced in the system, including racism, discrimination, among others.

Frankly I think there could be a go between of both systems, as simply having one of the other doesn’t work, and it’s been proven. Either you have a totalitarian government, or an Oligarchy who gets more than the poor saps who have to split everything evenly.

I also simply don’t agree that if I am working harder than somebody else, they still earn as much as I do. Certainly there are other reasons that people don’t have the same opportunities.

Sure, the USA healthcare system is screwed up and shouldn’t be for profit (imo). Education, imo, also shouldn’t be a major focus of profit (hi standardized testing!), but things need to be paid for. Capitalism isn’t entirely evil, and socialism isn’t entirely blessed.

Granted, I think a system with universal income, but additional opportunities for employment would be lovely. If people want to work to own more, allow it. If people want to be lazy and contribute nothing, let them settle for less.

At least no one is dying because they can’t afford medical bills or going hungry.

Basically, it’s not as simple as just “screw this, do that”. There is far more involved than to do that.
Hey, fun fact, in the Netherlands, education is free up to your 18th meaning every child can potentially go through school, middle school and high school without having to pay a single cent. It's a gift, not a loan

Also yes lots of people die in the US due to not being able to afford medicine. Do you know how much it costs to make insulin for people who would literally die without it? Here's a hint, it's nowhere near as much as the price insulin is on the market in the US. There are many people who are forced to live paycheck to paycheck and because the US is the best example of unchecked capitalism I can think of, they can't afford to go to the doctor because that means a huge bill which they can't pay because they're living off of the paycheck. They also can't take sick days because they don't get paid for that there (we do here though). As far as I'm aware, there are no benefits programmes in the US to help those who are unable to get enough money (depending on my wages I can get a sizeable sum of money that basically gives me free insurance). People who are handicapped are unable to work and thus America ditches them because they aren't profitable. (My mother has been legally declared unfit for work due to her illnesses so she gets benefits from that and my own handicaps are to help me get a job and shouldn't allow me to get let go from my job due to contract expirations)

Oh, and it's easy to get money for all that stuff, increase tax rates for the people who keep buying yachts every few months or so because that would put money back in the economy. Give 100 bucks to a billionaire, they put it on the bank where it stays. Give it to a struggling family and that 100 bucks is guaranteed to get spent on necessities which in turn gets used for paychecks for the average person which then goes back into the economy yet again
 
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