Ultimate Couch Multiplayer Experience

[Princess Rescuer]

So, SSBU has pretty solid, robust single player that keeps you coming back. What about the multiplayer though?

It's a dud.

Let me explain. The single player in SSBU is rewarding. Starting with eight characters and unlocking increasingly more unique and versatile fighters after getting the chance every so often keeps you coming back. Having eight of them ensures you're not overwhelmed and can stick to one for a while and learn its moves and get comfortable before moving on to an unlockable character that looks appealing. If you started with all the characters, there would be nowhere to go and you would be too overwhelmed to pick one and the mastery of each character would probably be spread too thinly due to you wanting to just try them all out. Starting with eight and gradually unlocking them is more manageable.

Problem is, it makes for lousy multiplayer.

When people who have only vaguely heard of the game come over, they might be wondering "Where's Ridley? Where's Isabella? Why can't I use all of the cool new characters I've seen in all the trailers?" they probably aren't very fond of hearing "we have to have a random chance of unlocking them one by one and that's if we win a fight against them". Not only does it mean everyone gets fewer options and is less likely to have their taste and comfort zone catered to, it also means a group of up to eight people (!) now have to do nothing while one player fights against one computer player. Of course, no fan of any game would think it a point in its favor to not get to play it while others get to. Yet this is the multiplayer experience many will have on Christmas morning- and it will probably lead to confused relatives asking "Why are there only two people? I thought everyone was playing". In single player mode, this isn't a problem- you're going from one player fighting computer players to one player fighting a computer player. In multiplayer, that changes for the worse.

So here's my solution- have a single player mode that's almost identical to the main multiplayer mode, except for one difference- you start with very few characters and more of them have to be unlocked one by one. Then have a multiplayer mode where you just have everything- every character and every stage. That way, the single players get their deep, intricate unlocking experience while the multiplayers get immediate gratification for all during get-togethers.

Think that's difficult to implement? It's been done two decades ago, and in another Nintendo game even- Mario Golf 64.

In MG64's Single Player mode, you start with a pitiful four characters. The idea is that in order to get the advantage in the other modes, you unlock more characters by beating them in match games. In the multiplayer modes, where there are more options and less stakes, you start with ten characters. I would take this to its logical extreme- single player starts you with two (just so you get a choice) and multiplayer gives you all 14. A similar solution would work in this game so the majority of players don't have to periodically have the control jettisoned away from them.

 

[Cyn]

I don't really see this as a problem. Unlocks happen fairly regularly.

 

[Pyr]

My dude. I've watched people doing local play in this situation. Maybe they don't get their character right away, sure. But the amount of hype that I've seen on every new unlock, followed by the subsequent unlock hype, and finally on the "try the new shiny thing we just got" hype, is real. It's unique. It's not bad. It's not the instant gratification some want, but it's not bad.

 

[Orlando BCN]

So what you’re saying is, you can either

A) Limit yourself to a few characters and not make the conscious choice to play multiplayer where you can play the character you want

or B) Play as the entire roster, making it take longer to actually unlock anyone in single-player while disregarding the fact that CPUs can be fought against in multiplayer as well.

Your logic is too silly, man. It’s practically bait.

 

[Princess Rescuer]

It is a problem that this happens regularly. In no other multiplayer game does the multiplayer stop so one player can play a part of a single player game. It happens too regularly. And it lasts longer due to the amount of characters Ultimate has, made greater by the fact that you only start with eight.

Also, characters unlocked in multiplayer, you miss out on unlocking them in single player.

 

[Pyr]

Also, characters unlocked in multiplayer, you miss out on unlocking them in single player.

That's typically what happens when you unlock a character that has multiple unlock methods: You can't unlock them using the other unlock methods you didn't use.

And even then that is only half true. You can still unlock them for use in WoL via WoL.

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

I suggested having every character available by default in VS mode and all unlockables required to be unlocked in single player and people were against the idea.

 

[Princess Rescuer]

People tell me that "if you don't enjoy unlocking characters, you don't enjoy playing and working" as if the game is over and you can't play it anymore once all the characters are unlocked.

Also, there's an exploit that has existed since SSBB where you set everyone to 1 HP with Lip's Flower on them so matches end instantly and you can have the challengers approach you faster. That's not real work. It's just a chore.

 

[Kori]

Unlocking Characters is half the fun! Don't ruin it!

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

People tell me that "if you don't enjoy unlocking characters, you don't enjoy playing and working" as if the game is over and you can't play it anymore once all the characters are unlocked.

Also, there's an exploit that has existed since SSBB where you set everyone to 1 HP with Lip's Flower on them so matches end instantly and you can have the challengers approach you faster. That's not real work. It's just a chore.

well the challenger approaching part is fun. I'll give them that.

 

[Marmotbro]

Dude I unlocked every character except for three on day 1, and I got a physical copy in the mail meaning i really unlocked them all in about half a day. Most of them came from multiplayer matches with my brother. The problem you describe is only a problem right when you get the game, and even then you are getting a new character like every other match. Not only that but the starting roster is fun. I don't see why are you so butthurt about this.

And complaining about having 7 people watch while one fights the CPU for the unlock is also a stupid argument, you can't sit still for 2 minutes at the most?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Wow, yet another essay long thread by Princess Rescuer complaining about minor things in the game.

You're entire argument is loaded. You're basically complaining that it ruins multiplayer to unlock fighters even though the battles take up less than one minute sometimes and unlocking all of the fighters takes less than 3 hours of gameplay.

I suggested having every character available by default in VS mode and all unlockables required to be unlocked in single player and people were against the idea.

And people still are. Unlocking fighters is half the hype and fun.

 

[Princess Rescuer]

Each Smash installment has had more characters to begin with until this one. Why only 8 veterans? Not to mention how antagonistic unlocks are if you lose the difficult matches. Then you have to go into a different menu to check if you have the opportunity to rematch. And the matches can be much longer than a minute due to there being no time limit.

 

[Marmotbro]

Each Smash installment has had more characters to begin with until this one. Why only 8 veterans?

Obviously to shake things up. every smash game has its differences. They were obviously trying to streamline the flow for this game.

Not to mention how antagonistic unlocks are if you lose the difficult matches. Then you have to go into a different menu to check if you have the opportunity to rematch. And the matches can be much longer than a minute due to there being no time limit.

I hate to be the guy who says this, but git gud. Your reward for beating the CPU is you get the character, can't measure up you don't get the unlock. You might want them all handed to you for free, but that's not how it be anymore.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Each Smash installment has had more characters to begin with until this one. Why only 8 veterans? Not to mention how antagonistic unlocks are if you lose the difficult matches. Then you have to go into a different menu to check if you have the opportunity to rematch. And the matches can be much longer than a minute due to there being no time limit.

Your idea that all fighters should be available from the start is against what Ultimate's theme is about. The process of unlocking characters directly corresponds with the feeling of recruiting fighters in World of Light. And if unlocking fighters is that hard for you......git gud. Hate to say it, but the fighter unlocks weren't all that hard.

 

[staindgrey]

Counter point: Couch multiplayer is almost all I've done and it's been fantastic.

Princess Rescuer , is there a reason why every thread you make is negative?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Counter point: Couch multiplayer is almost all I've done and it's been fantastic.

Princess Rescuer , is there a reason why every thread you make is negative?

Yeah, couch multiplayer is the best it's ever been.

Also, I second that. How come all of your threads, Princess Rescuer , have been negative criticism of Ultimate?

 

[lucasla]

The process of unlock characters, if is a problem to someone, is a problem that after you get the game, you will not even remember you had it after 1, 2 or 3 days. It's pretty quick to unlock all of them. And you waited how long for the game?

 

[Princess Rescuer]

There is a reason I’m usually negative. I feel there is a deficit of vigilant negativity on SB. There needs to be more opinion variety and not just multiple threads on purchase justification or how great Sakurai is or how you were totally excited for Piranha Plant or Joker to be in Smash before they were announced.

I’m not sad that Piranha Plant is only unlocked in the eShop anymore. I’ll happily leave him out.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

There is a reason I’m usually negative. I feel there is a deficit of vigilant negativity on SB. There needs to be more opinion variety and not just multiple threads on purchase justification or how great Sakurai is or how you were totally excited for Piranha Plant or Joker to be in Smash before they were announced.

I’m not sad that Piranha Plant is only unlocked in the eShop anymore. I’ll happily leave him out.

But that's not what SB is You're just stereotyping. And you literally just admitted to trolling right there. You're being negative just because you think SB is too positive.

 

[RepStar]

8 player smash with ice climbers only and fountain of dreams , no platfotms. Greatest couch co-op ever.

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

I hate to be the guy who says this, but git gud. Your reward for beating the CPU is you get the character, can't measure up you don't get the unlock. You might want them all handed to you for free, but that's not how it be anymore.

Well everyone who is against the idea can exaggerate how bad it is but you would really hate for you to go to someone else's console only for them to not have the character you like. This is especially a problem for tournament organizers.

Not to mention that the unlocks eventually get tedious if you're just doing the same thing over and over. The fact that there's an exploit that people are using to quickly bypass this shows that there is a flaw in the system.

As for the 1 human fighting and 7 watching complaint, the unlock battles don't take that much longer but on larger stages they can take longer than usual to do. The fact that you're using up time that could be better spent playing multiplayer and that failing means you have to do the rematch adds fuel to the fire. Is it hard? I wouldn't say so. Does it use up time that could better be spent on playing with friends? Yes it obviously does.

 

[BigMac1304]

Why only 8 veterans?

If they were to have newcomers from the start, many would think "Why isn't the one I wanted to play as available from the start"

Ftr, you made a decent argument, Princess Rescuer , when you said this:

Yet this is the multiplayer experience many will have on Christmas morning- and it will probably lead to confused relatives asking "Why are there only two people? I thought everyone was playing". In single player mode, this isn't a problem- you're going from one player fighting computer players to one player fighting a computer player. In multiplayer, that changes for the worse.

 

[lucasla]

Not to mention that the unlocks eventually get tedious if you're just doing the same thing over and over. The fact that there's an exploit that people are using to quickly bypass this shows that there is a flaw in the system.

Sure, but probably they dont think it's a big deal. The process of unlock of the characters is fast, and they could only make it really mandatory using some online check, to prevent any change of time of the system. But that would mean the game would require internet connection all the time during the singleplayer process of unlock characters, that would not be seen with good eyes for the players. Since they had not implemented something like that, we can only assume that they think that people that try to cheat the process of unlock characters is just ruining the experience for themselves. And they are fine with it.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

There is a reason I’m usually negative. I feel there is a deficit of vigilant negativity on SB. There needs to be more opinion variety and not just multiple threads on purchase justification or how great Sakurai is or how you were totally excited for Piranha Plant or Joker to be in Smash before they were announced.

I’m not sad that Piranha Plant is only unlocked in the eShop anymore. I’ll happily leave him out.

Negativity for the sake of negativity doesn't make one vigilant though. There has to be a good and well thought out reason for your stance, because without it you are just a contrarian who is not worth taking seriously.
And the problem with your topic is that you make the glaring omission of acknowledging that this is just a temporary issue. Characters stay unlocked once you get them, thus having no negative impact over subsequent play sessions.
If you are in a rush to get them all, you can always find ways to cheese the system. If not, you can play at your own leisure and unlock them as they come.

Do I think this a real issue? Nope.
Is this a problem worth taking seriously? Absolutely not.
Is this topic pointless? Of course it is.

In fact, I think this is such a first world issue that shows that some people just want instant gratification.

I suggested having every character available by default in VS mode and all unlockables required to be unlocked in single player and people were against the idea.

And then the day after, you suggested a more tedious unlock method, with a philosophy incompatible to the one you presented on your other topic and on this one, dear boy.

 

[Terradrius]

In no other multiplayer game does the multiplayer stop so one player can play a part of a single player game.

It's not quite the same thing, but something very akin to this happens all the time in Mario Party. Players play solo games while everyone else gets to watch. Heck, the computer plays against itself while all the humans just sit and watch.

 

[Marmotbro]

Well everyone who is against the idea can exaggerate how bad it is but you would really hate for you to go to someone else's console only for them to not have the character you like. This is especially a problem for tournament organizers.

are you telling me people who wish to play smash competitively might not have all the characters unlocked?


as to the rest of your post, Stop grinding, stop worrying about not having the characters you want, and just play your new game. Its what I did.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Well everyone who is against the idea can exaggerate how bad it is but you would really hate for you to go to someone else's console only for them to not have the character you like. This is especially a problem for tournament organizers.

Not to mention that the unlocks eventually get tedious if you're just doing the same thing over and over. The fact that there's an exploit that people are using to quickly bypass this shows that there is a flaw in the system.

As for the 1 human fighting and 7 watching complaint, the unlock battles don't take that much longer but on larger stages they can take longer than usual to do. The fact that you're using up time that could be better spent playing multiplayer and that failing means you have to do the rematch adds fuel to the fire. Is it hard? I wouldn't say so. Does it use up time that could better be spent on playing with friends? Yes it obviously does.

No tournament organizer is going to run a tourney without unlocking everyone. You don't even know what you're talking about anymore.

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

No tournament organizer is going to run a tourney without unlocking everyone. You don't even know what you're talking about anymore.

Tell that to everyone who would love to waste time going through each console to make sure every setup has all characters unlocked.

And then the day after, you suggested a more tedious unlock method, with a philosophy incompatible to the one you presented on your other topic and on this one, dear boy.

So people who want to main a newcomer or people who want to use a character their friend hasn't unlocked wants "instant gratification"

My suggestion of an unlock method doesn't mostly involve doing the same thing over and over again, and many are nods and throwbacks to past ways you unlocked characters (or challenges the community created, such as the Bowser challenge).

But even then if you found them too annoying or difficult I included a cheat code.

 

[All Hail Me]

It is a problem that this happens regularly. In no other multiplayer game does the multiplayer stop so one player can play a part of a single player game. It happens too regularly. And it lasts longer due to the amount of characters Ultimate has, made greater by the fact that you only start with eight.

Also, characters unlocked in multiplayer, you miss out on unlocking them in single player.

All i have done really is play local. And the single player unlock battles were just as fun as the 3-7 person battles were were having. It may have been only one person playing, but everyone was invested. And if the ublock battle failed the s*** talking was great

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Tell that to everyone who would love to waste time going through each console to make sure every setup has all characters unlocked.



So people who want to main a newcomer or people who want to use a character their friend hasn't unlocked wants "instant gratification"

My suggestion of an unlock method doesn't mostly involve doing the same thing over and over again, and many are nods and throwbacks to past ways you unlocked characters (or challenges the community created, such as the Bowser challenge).

But even then if you found them too annoying or difficult I included a cheat code.

Tell that to everyone who has the balls to appreciate the simple and easy way that fighters are unlocked in this game. You act like it takes weeks to unlock the full roster when every fighter can be playable in less than 3 hours. If anyone actually has a problem with the short amount of time that takes, they're just impatient babies.

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

Tell that to everyone who has the balls to appreciate the simple and easy way that fighters are unlocked in this game. You act like it takes weeks to unlock the full roster when every fighter can be playable in less than 3 hours. If anyone actually has a problem with the short amount of time that takes, they're just impatient babies.

yep you can unlock everyone in 3 hours by doing the same redundant task that could be better spent elsewhere.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

yep you can unlock everyone in 3 hours by doing the same redundant task that could be better spent elsewhere.

True, there are better ways to spend your time in rather than rushing to unlock everyone. Like actually playing the game as intended. It worked wonderfully for me. I didn't rush myself into having everyone in record time; I unlocked every single character over the course of five days by leisurely playing WoL, Classic mode and VS.
Character unlocks are streamlined and simple enough to not become tedious through normal gameplay. Its the player itself who makes this a tedious task for them because they just want to jump straight into online 1-on-1. Cheesing the system to have everyone within 3 hours by repeating the same task over and over is not what I would call playing the game normally, so if you get burned for deciding to commit to the same menial task over and over, that's on you and not on how the game is designed.
And yeah, I'd say that wanting to have everything in the game unlocked now is a form of instant gratification.

Why is spending time playing a game as intended considered wasting your time now? (Yes, I'm aware that playing video games is time you spend being unproductive, but no one can be productive 24/7. Everyone needs to sit back and enjoy themselves once in a while)

 

[Mogisthelioma]

True, there are better ways to spend your time in rather than rushing to unlock everyone. Like actually playing the game as intended. It worked wonderfully for me. I didn't rush myself into having everyone in record time; I unlocked every single character over the course of five days by leisurely playing WoL, Classic mode and VS.
Character unlocks are streamlined and simple enough to not become tedious through normal gameplay. Its the player itself who makes this a tedious task for them because they just want to jump straight into online 1-on-1. Cheesing the system to have everyone within 3 hours by repeating the same task over and over is not what I would call playing the game normally, so if you get burned for deciding to commit to the same menial task over and over, that's on you and not on how the game is designed.
And yeah, I'd say that wanting to have everything in the game unlocked now is a form of instant gratification.

Why is spending time playing a game as intended considered wasting your time now? (Yes, I'm aware that playing video games is time you spend being unproductive, but no one can be productive 24/7. Everyone needs to sit back and enjoy themselves once in a while)

That's what I did too. The normal way to unlock fighters is so much fun, and I think most people agree.

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

True, there are better ways to spend your time in rather than rushing to unlock everyone. Like actually playing the game as intended. It worked wonderfully for me. I didn't rush myself into having everyone in record time; I unlocked every single character over the course of five days by leisurely playing WoL, Classic mode and VS.

Perhaps people wouldn't be rushing if they didn't make almost the entire cast unlockable.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Perhaps people wouldn't be rushing if they didn't make almost the entire cast unlockable.

Quick question: Have you actually met/seen people who complain about the short unlock times, or are you just making things up? Because it seems like you're the only person here who is making that argument.

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

Quick question: Have you actually met/seen people who complain about the short unlock times, or are you just making things up? Because it seems like you're the only person here who is making that argument.

I've seen people say that there are too many unlocks and I've seen people say that short unlocks are basically grinding which is time better spent on multiplayer

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77295129

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77258875

 

[Christian_CAO]

you guys have to admit that the man (and or woman) has a point.
Though to be quite frank, thinking of the children... Christmas morning will most certainly not have friends over at all. Children will not invite their friends to come over on Christmas morning. That doesn't happen. It's almost like you've never celebrated Christmas before dude. 7 times out of 10, children will not even know that they're getting smash for Christmas. Most times gifts are "surprises".

Now then. Ignoring the actual children... The switch caters to young adults more than any other demographic. Nintendo finally understands that Children will play anything so long as it is fun. That is something that has never changed.

That leaves just smash fans. Smash fans know what they're getting. Smash fans understand what they have to do. Smash fans have been following the game since its announcement. Everyone here knew that they would have to unlock the roster.

You are literally on a smash fan-base website (dare I even say, THE smash fan-base website) bringing up a "non issue".

People these days are all about instant gratification, so base roster unlocks have been a bit absent from most games since it's seen as an archaic form of game design (mostly because of the internet but we'll get to that point soon). However, the satisfaction of seeing a roster grow more and more is indeed very gratifying. It really doesn't have the same impact as it would have had 15-20 years ago though. This is because of the damn internet. Sakurai decides to "spoil" the game himself by presenting all of the roster (or at least most of it) each week up until release. He's been doing it since brawl.

The days of satisfying character unlocks have been long since dead. Sakurai already presented the entire roster to us online. Why would he waste his time and ours by having us unlock characters we already know about? The whole reason unlockable characters were a thing in the first place was to reward players little by little by giving them a surprise. There can't be a surprise if everyone knows what the surprise is. It still is rather "cool" though, to have the "A New Challenger Approaches" splash screen pop up after you do something. It's a nostalgic feeling, since smash 4 just gave you all the characters right off the bat, it was "nice" to unlock them this time...sort of... I'm still conflicted because it is rather pointless to have to unlock characters that you know are in the game...it's almost like Sakurai forgot why he did it for 64 and melee.

Yup...young internet days were the best days. Not knowing, was and is a blessing.

Back on topic, I do see your point. I myself, was over my friends house with my switch the night before release and downloaded the game right when it was available. I hooked it up to my buds dock and he isn't to big a smash fan but he heard Isabelle` was a fighter and he wanted to play her. So he thought it was rather lame that we had to unlock her. He got over it, but he was still disappointed that he couldn't play as the "best doggo". I didn't unlock every character until literally two days ago. That's almost an entire week. XD

However, It's not really that big a deal, and also... it's too late to change anything about it now. Might as well just ignore the "issue", if you could even call it one.

 

[rat.jpg]

It was fun taking turns with everyone at the friday party and unlocking as we smashed. Everyone who was playing got a chance to unlock a character and it was entertaining to watch the reactions

 

[Mogisthelioma]

It was fun taking turns with everyone at the friday party and unlocking as we smashed. Everyone who was playing got a chance to unlock a character and it was entertaining to watch the reactions

See? Not everyone has a problem with it.