U-Smash Invincy frames

[Napilopez]

So much Sonic weirdness... First my MK pwning SCROD, now HISS("Honey, I've shrunk Sonic").

 

[Camalange]

Alright that's it, I crown Napi as our official Sonic Tech/Glitch/Whatever namer. He's too good.

 

[Espy Rose]

SCROD? Elaborate for me Napi.

@ dNES: Actually, truth be told, I kinda went THROUGH Kirby's downB. However, I wasn't directly below him. I was to the side of him, so the right side of Sonic's upsmash hit the rock as it dropped.

I recieved no damage or anything, but you could see the effects of the upsmash hitting the rock (those green bubble things) as he moved downward.

Unfortunately, I don't have video of it, so I hope you can just take my word for it.

Again, my right side of the upsmash went THROUGH Kirby as he approached in a stone state, and I recieved no damage as my attacks hit him. Since he was stone, the attacks did no damage.

 

[Napilopez]

SCROD = Super Crazy Roll of Doom.

Have you not seen the vid in the WiFi/SBR/Spin Mechanics thread?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BghNRvRh9gI

37 Damage in half a second from and SDR/ASC alone, no followups or anything. Its not that hard to replicate have pulled it off a couple of times in real matches. Most damage I've done is 44%, but that was in training mode with no staling, so yea.

 

[infomon]

I have video "proof" of Sonic's invincy frames in his up-smash. Should be up on youtube in an hour or so.

 

[ShadowLink84]

SCROD = Super Crazy Roll of Doom.

Have you not seen the vid in the WiFi/SBR/Spin Mechanics thread?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BghNRvRh9gI

37 Damage in half a second from and SDR/ASC alone, no followups or anything. Its not that hard to replicate have pulled it off a couple of times in real matches. Most damage I've done is 44%, but that was in training mode with no staling, so yea.

Its due to platform cancel behavior. The hits from your spincharge get renewed so they hit repeatedly.
its an interesting trick but not worth really investing into.

 

[Tenki]

Its due to platform cancel behavior. The hits from your spincharge get renewed so they hit repeatedly.
its an interesting trick but not worth really investing into.

lol it's more like an SDR>ASC>SDR>ASC>SDR deal

The last hit in the video was an ASC that knocked him out of range, and the SDR was what he was doing when he did the turnaround-fall

 

[ShadowLink84]

lol it's more like an SDR>ASC>SDR>ASC>SDR deal

The last hit in the video was an ASC that knocked him out of range, and the SDR was what he was doing when he did the turnaround-fall

I disagree. More SDR and less ASC since I've done the same thing to an opponent at higher percents. it probably turns into an ASC at the end.

hitting the opponent delays the point where Sonic would normally SDR off the platform. I've done it n BF where I eventually fall off at a certain point.

 

[Napilopez]

Its due to platform cancel behavior. The hits from your spincharge get renewed so they hit repeatedly.
its an interesting trick but not worth really investing into.

lol it's more like an SDR>ASC>SDR>ASC>SDR deal

The last hit in the video was an ASC that knocked him out of range, and the SDR was what he was doing when he did the turnaround-fall

What Tenki said lol. As far as we know, it only works on moving platforms. Infzy and aeghrur had the explanation for it. Its simply the SDR rolls off, turns into Asc, but hits, so the hitlag causes the platform to have time catch up, and turn the roll into an SDR again. Rinse and repeat.

As usual, its not anything game breaking, but at leastttt bea aware of it when playing on smashville. I've been able to pull it out at least once in about 75% of my matches on smashville after i did it to infzy.

Speaking of infzy, yay proof of invincy frames!

 

[Napilopez]

Forgot to talk about this:

@ dNES: Actually, truth be told, I kinda went THROUGH Kirby's downB. However, I wasn't directly below him. I was to the side of him, so the right side of Sonic's upsmash hit the rock as it dropped.

I recieved no damage or anything, but you could see the effects of the upsmash hitting the rock (those green bubble things) as he moved downward.

Unfortunately, I don't have video of it, so I hope you can just take my word for it.

Again, my right side of the upsmash went THROUGH Kirby as he approached in a stone state, and I recieved no damage as my attacks hit him. Since he was stone, the attacks did no damage.

This would seem to support the small hitbox theory, as if kirby just went through your right side, he could have just hit the hitbox without hitting your tiny hurtbox.

But infzy has proof of invincy frames apparently, so yea. Perhaps it's a combination of both? A couple of invincy frames and then this whole small hurtbox thing too.

 

[infomon]

Of course the hurtbox is small, otherwise there wouldn't be any hitbox lol. You have to poke inside the blue ball to do damage, there's a ring of hitbox around the hurtbox basically.

But invincy frames = no hurtbox, which is a small hurtbox indeed

Vid is enqueued (still uploading some of my matches against Napz lol), should be up soon.

 

[Espy Rose]

Cool steak Infzy.

I'm gonna start using upsmash alot more anyways. Upthrow to upsmash is too good.

 

[infomon]

Video demonstration:

[Sonic's Up-Smash has invincibility frames]

 

[Camalange]

Cool steak Infzy.

I'm gonna start using upsmash alot more anyways. Upthrow to upsmash is too good.

lol, I did that to infzy the other day. Funny stuff.
Although I'm starting to use U-Throw>SideB Cancel>Regrab more. It's too good when it works.

EDIT @ infzy: Nice! Finally, cold hard steak proof.

 

[infomon]

Video demonstration:
[Sonic's Up-Smash has invincibility frames]

Edit: Admittedly, if you're really skeptical, this isn't conclusive proof, but it's pretty darn close IMO. Actually I consider the Homing Attack example to be conclusive, unless someone can demonstrate that it doesn't just look for hurtboxes, but has some other (?) conditions.

Edit 2: lol thanx Cama. aaaand... I dunno why this posted again lol.

 

[Tenki]

lol if you want it to be conclusive, stick a C4 onto Sonic

 

[Camalange]

Yeah, the Ike Fsmash was pretty sick, but the C4 thing would've been sweet too. Although, haven't we been discussing whether or not explosives have different properties? Like, ROOOY! said he daired into a C4 and took no damage, and I'm almost positive Dair has no invincibility...therefore it wouldn't prove Usmash having invincibility frames.

 

[aeghrur]

Speaking of C4s, I've been stuck with a C4, used a spring from below stage, C4 missed because of invincy frames and I hit the snake with U-air as he was finishing the animation. xD 2cool.

 

[infomon]

I think explosives are fairly normal hitboxes, and like normal hitboxes you can clash them with Dair to nullify their ability to cause you damage. So IMO the C4 is a decent idea, and timing it wouldn't be much trickier than anything else.

Oh well.

Edit: aeghrur: LOL that's amazing, I'm gonna try to use Spring to avoid C4 from now on

Snake: Now!
Sonic: *sproooiiing*

 

[Tenki]

Speaking of C4s, I've been stuck with a C4, used a spring from below stage, C4 missed because of invincy frames and I hit the snake with U-air as he was finishing the animation. xD 2cool.

lol I actually tested for Spring's invincibility frames with that, along side with falling Kirby rocks (sorry KASR) and TL D-airs.

I also thought it was hilarious to do a Snake--MK double down-B team combo: (I)DC --> C4.

 

[darkNES386]

So wait, on the last one with Ike... I'm confused... why both Ike and Sonic experienced knockback

 

[aeghrur]

So wait, on the last one with Ike... I'm confused... why both Ike and Sonic experienced knockback

He messed up? lol.

 

[infomon]

Oh, that last one is just for lolz. The hitboxes overlap each other's hurtboxes on the same frame Trading hits ftw!

 

[Kinzer]

I declare this thread...

/thread.

Infzy is too good.

 

[Browny]

that videos doesnt prove it enough imo

take screenshots of invidual frames until you can show the laser is actually passing through the dead centre of sonics body. remember i said i think his hitbox is shrunk way below whats visible? its like the size of a deku nut...

of course the whole C4 thing is still the same, but thats coz of its weird hitbox properties people already discussed

 

[Kinzer]

Can't we just say we got something done with Sonic?





Yeah okay but no seriously, U-Smash is funky, but at least it's our U-Smash, and I don't think I would trade it for anything else.

...Okay, maybe Fox's USmash would be nice.

 

[Tenki]

that videos doesnt prove it enough imo

take screenshots of invidual frames until you can show the laser is actually passing through the dead centre of sonics body. remember i said i think his hitbox is shrunk way below whats visible? its like the size of a deku nut...

of course the whole C4 thing is still the same, but thats coz of its weird hitbox properties people already discussed

Name another non-invincible move that Sonic's Homing Attack will refuse to lock on and we might be able to refute that section of the video. (0:44-1:13)



good luck!

 

[Browny]

name another invincible move that falcos lasers will knock you out of every time (when you actually aim at sonics centre)

:/

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

Sonic's center passed through Fox's laser as he jumped, showing that part is invincible too. Falco's lasers travel slower then Fox's, there are probably not enough invincible frames for the entire laser to pass through in time.

 

[Dark Sonic]

name another invincible move that falcos lasers will knock you out of every time (when you actually aim at sonics centre)

:/

Donkey Kong's Aerial up B? Maybe Metaknight's up B? I don't know, I'd have to test them out (but they do only have 2-3 frames of invincibility each, which seems short enough for the laser to still hit them).

It could simply be that Falco's lasers travel slow enough to hit Sonic after his invincibility frames run out.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=1r9HGU39qXo

1:01 is undeniable proof that there are some invincibility frames. The up smashing Sonic's entire body was covered by the homming attack, but he didn't get hit. Even if you were to say that his hitbox consisted of only 1 pixel, it would not explain why this has occurred (or why the other homming attacks refused to lock on in the other clips where the up smash was done a little earlier.)

 

[infomon]

I've been able to do it through Falco's laser. Similarly to fox, the laser's slow enough that I'm putting the up-smash through the last half, or maybe two-thirds of the laser shot; I can't get the whole thing to go through since it's too long/slow.

 

[darkNES386]

I've been able to do it through Falco's laser. Similarly to fox, the laser's slow enough that I'm putting the up-smash through the last half, or maybe two-thirds of the laser shot; I can't get the whole thing to go through since it's too long/slow.

That last IKE attack still has me confused. Is it feasible to counter dairs and possible even smashes or other attacks by timing this move right? Is the hit box out during the invincy frames? If so then I can't see why this can't be applied.... rawr.

 

[infomon]

Hmm. Now I'm confused too. If the hitbox were out during the invincy frames, then stuff like Ike's sword should have clashed with Sonic in the first examples where it sweeps right through.

Here's my guess at how it works:

1. Sonic jumps upwards (the "mini-Sonic" frames); there's a hitbox that pushes ppl up off the ground into the spot where the ball will form. He has a hurtbox here.
2. There's a single frame or two where he's a ball in the air, the ball is a hurtbox but not a hitbox.
3. There's a couple frames where his hurtbox and hitbox are both gone, while his hitbox-aura appears
4. He's got a hurtbox in the blue ball, with a hitbox (and matching aura) as a ring around the hurtbox

but I could be wrong.

 

[~TBS~]

Hmm. Now I'm confused too. If the hitbox were out during the invincy frames, then stuff like Ike's sword should have clashed with Sonic in the first examples where it sweeps right through.

Here's my guess at how it works:

1. Sonic jumps upwards (the "mini-Sonic" frames); there's a hitbox that pushes ppl up off the ground into the spot where the ball will form. He has a hurtbox here.
2. There's a single frame or two where he's a ball in the air, the ball is a hurtbox but not a hitbox.
3. There's a couple frames where his hurtbox and hitbox are both gone, while his hitbox-aura appears
4. He's got a hurtbox in the blue ball, with a hitbox (and matching aura) as a ring around the hurtbox

but I could be wrong.

so wait a minute, i just watched the vid and you said you were too close infzy?
so you cant be too close to the opponent in order for it to work? anyway, i think that those observations are very good. I'm stumped right now.

 

[infomon]

"too close": basically, Ike's hurtbox (which I assume extends into his arms) got in the way of Sonic's hitbox. So Ike got hurt, before we could observe if his sword would have gone through some invincy frames. Nevertheless, on the same frame as Ike got hurt, the sword's hitbox also hit Sonic's hurtbox, which means I'd mistimed it anyway.

 

[R4ZE]

Sonic is really fat, every 500th frame he spends 1/10th the frame baking a cake and eating it. obviously this si way to fast for anything to see or detect. But Falco's lazor definately hit sonic while he was baking.

 

[Jim Morrison]

You random ****er

 

[Tenki]

That was pretty amazing.