Meta Two Sides of the Same Coin - Pit/ Dark Pit Meta Game Discussion

[ミスティック Speed]

Always meteor, even when you don't have too. I like it. Nice videos. He looks fun to play in these.

Non-related question, are there any restrictions on recording replays. I think you're the only person I've seen so far who uses them.

xD Awesome vids. <3 Dark Pit being a bad ass as always...

 

[Spinosaurus]

I saw Zero play as him.

Damn he kills early. The knockback on some of his moves are nearly insane, particularly the second hit of his FSmash.

Or it could be bad DI. Maybe.

 

[Orchestrafanboy19]

I want to create a thread where we can talk about the competitive side of Pit. There are so many things I want to know about this character. Any and all important facets of this character are welcome, so long as they're true and/or helpful. I may not be the most competitively-viable person, but I strive to come out on top. Thanks in advance for advice!

 

[Iko-Seiko]

I've been having a lot of fun with Pit in the JP version, though i seem to be the only one, locally.

Pit's Fair has really low landing lag. I've been able to reliable go into a grab if i let the last hit of it hit on shield, then immediately land and grab. Alternatively, if i get someone with a short-hopped fair and land before the last hit of it, i can grab from that, too.

Pit's throws are pretty good. Uthrow to uair is good for forcing air dodges. And Dthrow combos into fair pretty nicely. Lots of fun there.

Upperdash arm is great! Very nice power for a move with superarmor. If you Jump before you do it, it makes it safer on shield, though characters like ROB can punish it with an upsmash out of their shield. Still, it bounces you up, better than the grounded option just leaving you standing there. Oh, and it doesn't put you into freefall, but it DOES have massive ending lag...

I managed to do something weird that i've been trying to replicate, where i hit someone with the aerial version of upperdash arm and right after hitting them, pit landed, having much less lag than if he'd done the normal animation of popping up with the hit. This could be a pretty cool thing if i can find a way to do it consistently. I'll name it the Nyani Cancel Or just, you know, land-canceling the upperdash arm.

 

[LancerStaff]

Wish people were talking about Pit instead of his snarky twin right now. It's kinda hard to get a grasp on who's better when everybody is talking about the one.

I managed to do something weird that i've been trying to replicate, where i hit someone with the aerial version of upperdash arm and right after hitting them, pit landed, having much less lag than if he'd done the normal animation of popping up with the hit. This could be a pretty cool thing if i can find a way to do it consistently. I'll name it the Nyani Cancel Or just, you know, land-canceling the upperdash arm.

Hm, I have an idea on what's happening. Remember Yoshi's second jump in the old games? It'd dip before rising. It's actually more a blessing then a curse, because it allows Yoshi land on platforms when passing by instead of jumping over and then landing on the platform.

Basically, Pit probably dips a bit when doing the aerial version of the move, and landing causes the lag to disappear. If this is the case, then doing it as close to the ground as possible would be the best way to trigger it.

A couple ideas to try:
Go into training, set the speed to the slowest possible, then jump and immediately Upperdash. If this triggers it, then holly **** we have a legitimate technique.
Do a short hop then Upperdash right before you hit the ground. More proof of concept then anything else, because this would render the cancelled lag moot.
And lastly, stick the opponent on a platform, then jump up and Upperdash when lined up with the platform. Likely the easiest to pull off. Speaking of which, remember if you did the trick on a platform?

 

[Theguesst]

Quick question. Can Pit/Dark Pit act out of down B in any way? (jump, shield, roll)

 

[Orchestrafanboy19]

I've heard Pit's Down Air can spike. Would it be too much trouble to ask if anyone can attempt to see if this is true?

 

[lob]

pit looks really good this time imo, he finally has kill options and is a lot less spammy in general than brawl

 

[PadWarrior]

Any good vids of Pit in battle?

 

[_Darkpit_]

While he is using the guardian orbitars he can't do anything except to keep his shields.

 

[BlinkIV]

Yea, F-Smash kills super early. The second hit is mad strong. D-Smash also kills pretty early, but around 120-ish? Not nearly as strong as F-Smash.

 

[Fire Tactician]

While he is using the guardian orbitars he can't do anything except to keep his shields.

Pretty much this. While you're rather safe using them, once they are put away, you're quite vulnerable. I've been grabbed several times doing so. But I can't stress enough how useful they are anyway. Using them before you land with proper prediction can save you from incoming smash attacks since you're guarding before you hit the ground. Depending on who you're fighting, you can even regain mobility before their animations are finished (think Shulk's lag time after a F-smash) and time a dodge before you're hit. I've timed it where I'll start up the move quickly just as Ike charges his F-smash and have blocked it perfectly and rushed in for a grab.

 

[GloriousV]

I think this might be too early, but do you guys see any character giving Dark Pit trouble competitively?

 

[_Darkpit_]

Pretty much this. While you're rather safe using them, once they are put away, you're quite vulnerable. I've been grabbed several times doing so. But I can't stress enough how useful they are anyway. Using them before you land with proper prediction can save you from incoming smash attacks since you're guarding before you hit the ground. Depending on who you're fighting, you can even regain mobility before their animations are finished (think Shulk's lag time after a F-smash) and time a dodge before you're hit. I've timed it where I'll start up the move quickly just as Ike charges his F-smash and have blocked it perfectly and rushed in for a grab.

Oh thank you for the tipps. ^^ I believe you and I think Pit needs the Guardian orbitars much more than the mirrorshield. ^^

 

[Iko-Seiko]

I've heard Pit's Down Air can spike. Would it be too much trouble to ask if anyone can attempt to see if this is true?

The Dair does have a meteor hitbox but i've been having a hard time finding out what part of the swing does it. At first i thought it was something of a tipper on the lowest part, now i feel like it's the hitbox near the end of the swing, i really cant tell yet. And wont have access to the game to test him more for a few days.

Also I dunno if you'd call them good videos, but theres some vids of me trying to figure out pit on day 1 against Chibo on the clashtournaments youtube channel.
Pretty mediocre play, but all I have to show. Ive figured out a bunch of cool things since those sets and ill try to record some more matches soon.

 

[Fire Tactician]

Oh thank you for the tipps. ^^ I believe you and I think Pit needs the Guardian orbitars much more than the mirrorshield. ^^

Definitely. I think the only negative to this over the Mirror Shield is that this can't be held indefinitely, but it already lasts quite a while on its own and provides the same type of support for both sides of him.

I think this might be too early, but do you guys see any character giving Dark Pit trouble competitively?

Nope, he's an ace!

Okay, seriously, that's a hard one. Dark Pit is the character that I consistently win as online and have lost only a few matches with him. I struggle with Little Mac a little. Dark Pit can put pressure on the opponent, but Little Mac is much faster at doing so to Dark Pit. Once you get into close quarters, Dark Pit's options become a bit limited. Yeah, his aerials are good, but Little Mac typically stays out of the air and this limits him to his only decent ground attacks. Unless you're good at short hopping (I'm not), you're going to want to try to make distance with the arrows and Dark Pit's pretty good reach. However, one wrong move and Little Mac can rush you down and take vengeance on you. My Guardian Orbitars that I love so much are so hard to use against him since he can often recover from his animations fast enough to slam on your or grab you.

 

[_Darkpit_]

Definitely. I think the only negative to this over the Mirror Shield is that this can't be held indefinitely, but it already lasts quite a while on its own and provides the same type of support for both sides of him.



Nope, he's an ace!

Okay, seriously, that's a hard one. Dark Pit is the character that I consistently win as online and have lost only a few matches with him. I struggle with Little Mac a little. Dark Pit can put pressure on the opponent, but Little Mac is much faster at doing so to Dark Pit. Once you get into close quarters, Dark Pit's options become a bit limited. Yeah, his aerials are good, but Little Mac typically stays out of the air and this limits him to his only decent ground attacks. Unless you're good at short hopping (I'm not), you're going to want to try to make distance with the arrows and Dark Pit's pretty good reach. However, one wrong move and Little Mac can rush you down and take vengeance on you. My Guardian Orbitars that I love so much are so hard to use against him since he can often recover from his animations fast enough to slam on your or grab you.

You can held the mirrorshield 10 sec in Brawl. ^^ But I think its not so bad if you can't held the Guardian Orbitars so long because of the grabs. ^^

 

[Fire Tactician]

You can held the mirrorshield 10 sec in Brawl. ^^ But I think its not so bad if you can't held the Guardian Orbitars so long because of the grabs. ^^

Ah, it seemed like forever in Brawl, but I guess I never held it that long anyway! I can't see why you would... maybe you're afraid of a camping Samus?

I also like to use the Electroshock Arm right when the opponent launches a projectile. They always seem to forget that it's just going to bounce off me and then SLAM!

 

[Jellyfishn]

I also like to use the Electroshock Arm right when the opponent launches a projectile. They always seem to forget that it's just going to bounce off me and then SLAM!

I don't know why I have never tried this.... I knew projectiles ricochet off of it, but didn't even realize that you kept going through it. I love this character so much more now haha.

 

[LancerStaff]

I think this might be too early, but do you guys see any character giving Dark Pit trouble competitively?

Pit was always a pretty neutral character in Brawl, so I'd say he'll be neutral here.

Definitely. I think the only negative to this over the Mirror Shield is that this can't be held indefinitely, but it already lasts quite a while on its own and provides the same type of support for both sides of him.



Nope, he's an ace!

Okay, seriously, that's a hard one. Dark Pit is the character that I consistently win as online and have lost only a few matches with him. I struggle with Little Mac a little. Dark Pit can put pressure on the opponent, but Little Mac is much faster at doing so to Dark Pit. Once you get into close quarters, Dark Pit's options become a bit limited. Yeah, his aerials are good, but Little Mac typically stays out of the air and this limits him to his only decent ground attacks. Unless you're good at short hopping (I'm not), you're going to want to try to make distance with the arrows and Dark Pit's pretty good reach. However, one wrong move and Little Mac can rush you down and take vengeance on you. My Guardian Orbitars that I love so much are so hard to use against him since he can often recover from his animations fast enough to slam on your or grab you.

If you're ever stuck with Mac or another fast character, why not try Pit? I still want to main both, and I'll use Pit against the fast ones because of the fast attacks, and DP against the slow ones because of the extra damage and KB. I really want to see how effective it is. It could be a very powerful tool for Pit and DP mains.

 

[Fire Tactician]

If you're ever stuck with Mac or another fast character, why not try Pit? I still want to main both, and I'll use Pit against the fast ones because of the fast attacks, and DP against the slow ones because of the extra damage and KB. I really want to see how effective it is. It could be a very powerful tool for Pit and DP mains.

That's just common sense

...

But I didn't think of that...

Good point though. Now that I think back, I don't think I've used Pit against a Little Mac yet. I'll have to give it a go next time and let you know what happens. The speed difference is almost negligible and I've hardly noticed it, but it's got to be there. Maybe it's that one second that I've been missing by that will really help me out.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

Any good vids of Pit in battle?

After hounding streams for two days, it's unfortunate to say that most competitive players are not interested in Pit since Burakku Pitto seems to be slightly better than him in terms of damage output. Someone should seriously hit the lab and find more differences between the two characters. I know that Vanilla Pit has more superarmor frames in his Upperdash arm, and that the Upperdash is a better kill move in general, but there has to be more differences that we're not aware of.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

I really need some detailed guide with the exact differences between Pit and Pitoo (numbers not necessary though, just want to know what move is stronger/faster/launch direction and other properties like weight). Because I can't see the main differences between clone and original in videos just yet.

 

[PadWarrior]

After hounding streams for two days, it's unfortunate to say that most competitive players are not interested in Pit since Burakku Pitto seems to be slightly better than him in terms of damage output. Someone should seriously hit the lab and find more differences between the two characters. I know that Vanilla Pit has more superarmor frames in his Upperdash arm, and that the Upperdash is a better kill move in general, but there has to be more differences that we're not aware of.

I was afraid this was gonna happen

 

[LancerStaff]

No need to fret guys, judgements like this are almost always hilariously wrong. Zelda was considered top tier around this time in Brawl, remember?

 

[BlinkIV]

I've had a bit of trouble against Little Mac as well. It's a little hard to keep him away on the ground. Most times I ended up spacing with SH Bairs (due to auto cancel), and spacing fairs too. The good thing about DP vs LM is that the Orbitars do absorb the OHKO attack too. So it somewhat handicaps Mac, but he still hits like a truck, just no clutch there. I recommend just play near the ledge, and bait him into a grab and toss him off. Focus on the gimps?


As far as Pit/Pitoo differences. What I've seen so far is:

Pit has better arrow control, but they do less damage. Pitoo has stronger arrows, but less control over them. I think % wise it's something like:

3% normal and 8% charged for pit, and 4% and 9% charged for Pitoo?

Side-B is also different. Pit's Side-B sends the opponent directly vertical, whereas Pitoo sends more horizantal-wise. So generally Pit would kill earlier with it, but Dark Pit would kill at a later % from it. Not sure about others changes

 

[Orchestrafanboy19]

So, it does seem like Dark Pit will be just a bit better than Pit. However, I doubt the difference will be equivalent to Melee Mario vs. Dr. Mario. Both seem like very viable options, I just really want to know how good our Angel is. I don't know much about tier lists, or how they're created, but I hope that the twins will not be super far apart from each other.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

I really need some detailed guide with the exact differences between Pit and Pitoo (numbers not necessary though, just want to know what move is stronger/faster/launch direction and other properties like weight). Because I can't see the main differences between clone and original in videos just yet.

According to @Aerodrome Pit and Dark Pit have the same weight, 96, which means they fit between Luigi (who is heavier than them) and Sonic (who is lighter than them).

 

[slimjim]

I managed to do something weird that i've been trying to replicate, where i hit someone with the aerial version of upperdash arm and right after hitting them, pit landed, having much less lag than if he'd done the normal animation of popping up with the hit. This could be a pretty cool thing if i can find a way to do it consistently. I'll name it the Nyani Cancel Or just, you know, land-canceling the upperdash arm.

Was it a ledge-cancel? Apparently most if not all b-moves ledge cancel in this game which is excellent.

Also pit's side-b nullifies projectiles. Use it to break through camping shenanigans.

 

[slimjim]

Was it a ledge-cancel? Apparently most if not all b-moves ledge cancel in this game which is excellent.

Also pit's side-b nullifies projectiles. Use it to break through camping shenanigans.

And pit 1's arrows are better than pit 2's.

Accidental double-post, sincerest apologies. D:

 

[_Darkpit_]

Ah, it seemed like forever in Brawl, but I guess I never held it that long anyway! I can't see why you would... maybe you're afraid of a camping Samus?

I also like to use the Electroshock Arm right when the opponent launches a projectile. They always seem to forget that it's just going to bounce off me and then SLAM!

Haha yes. You're right. But I have to admit I forget it too. xD As you know there is a secret list that saves how often do you use an attack. Every using of the attack your next same attack is weaker. ( To stop spam ) I think if the opponent hit the Guardian orbitars ( in Brawl the mirrorshield ) the same effect happens. And you can still use your best or other attacks. ^^ In Brawl the list saved also your attack as you hit walls ( for example Snakes stage ). In multiplayer matches the Guardian orbitars could be usefull for wait until your opponents were damaged a lot. Then its showtime for the bow and arm. ^^

 

[SaucyDancer]

Just a question in regards to the third custom move Dark Pit has for his bow. Do these controllable arrows feel like Brawl Pit's arrows at all? If not would they be more useful than the default one?

 

[Tsutori]

So, it does seem like Dark Pit will be just a bit better than Pit. However, I doubt the difference will be equivalent to Melee Mario vs. Dr. Mario. Both seem like very viable options, I just really want to know how good our Angel is. I don't know much about tier lists, or how they're created, but I hope that the twins will not be super far apart from each other.

I agree that they both seem viable, and I just wanted to add that stages will probably play a huge role in whether you pick Pit over Dark Pit, and vice versa. Because the launch angle of some of their attacks differ, it would be smart to choose whoever has the launch angle best suited for the stage, so you're actually hitting enemies into the blast zones as opposed to some kind of stage obstacle.

 

[Morbi]

Do any of his normals have different properties? Different knock-back, perhaps? Maybe the frame-data is different, for better or worse? Anything at all to that effect, or is it still to early to be properly tested?

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I actually really like Pit. He's probably one of my most played characters in the game so far. I've been doing some sick combos like D-throw > SH/Full hop Nair (character dependent) > Fair > Fair or land and read the air dodge into U-smash. I even did Fair > Jump Arrow > Dair spike.

I don't think people are giving him a chance since they believe he is the same as his Brawl counterpart when in reallity his gameplay took a huge 180.

 

[SaucyDancer]

So does Pit have a spike on his Dair like Dark Pit does? Because thats the only thing making me use Dark Pit over Pit.

 

[BlinkIV]

Too early to be tested, aside from the stuff I posted earlier. I'll be doing more research on it when I get my own copy.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

So does Pit have a spike on his Dair like Dark Pit does? Because thats the only thing making me use Dark Pit over Pit.

Yes, Pit's Dair has a spike.

 

[SaucyDancer]

Yes, Pit's Dair has a spike.

Perfect. Pit is my main again. Thanks!

 

[monkokaio]

There was a VG bootcamp video of them showing off Pit's moveset. Someone said that his new recovery is like Fox's except it "can't be aimed downwards." Is that true for both Pit and Dark Pit?

Also, his arrows are less mobile is that right? What's the most they can bend?