Meta Two Sides of the Same Coin - Pit/ Dark Pit Meta Game Discussion

[Tito Maas]

I think it's the usual placement for Pit. None of the notable Pit players use the footstool tech though(Reraze is getting there) so until then he will most likely stay just under the cusp of high tier.

Backroom has him ranked 2nd behind Yoshi in mid-tier and Dark Pit fifth in the mid-tier. That's good enough.

 

[Orchestrafanboy19]

I think it's the usual placement for Pit. None of the notable Pit players use the footstool tech though(Reraze is getting there) so until then he will most likely stay just under the cusp of high tier.

ReRaze Do you think incorporating footstool combos will drastically change their placement?

 

[ReRaze]

ReRaze Do you think incorporating footstool combos will drastically change their placement?

Well....look what it did to megaman~

 

[Orchestrafanboy19]

Could someone link me to the Pit Discord please?

 

[InfinitySoul]

http://smashcords.com/

All the smash discords links.

 

[GP2]

What are your opinions on down throw to up tilt?

I got the idea from a video on youtube called "Optimal Pit grab combos" although I think the guy took it down because the combos he showed were rather situational and he messed up on them a bunch of times. One of them he did was down throw to up tilt to fsmash. There was no combo meter in the video so I don't know if it was true or not but I know up tilt to up smash is true at low percents so if you can get the up tilt off of a down throw, you get an extra ten percent rather than just doing down throw to up smash. I'd test it myself but hand problem s prevent me from playing right now. I think it's worth checking out.

 

[Orchestrafanboy19]

So, what are flairs and how do I use them?

Edit: I figured them out.

 

[InfinitySoul]

What are your opinions on down throw to up tilt?

I got the idea from a video on youtube called "Optimal Pit grab combos" although I think the guy took it down because the combos he showed were rather situational and he messed up on them a bunch of times. One of them he did was down throw to up tilt to fsmash. There was no combo meter in the video so I don't know if it was true or not but I know up tilt to up smash is true at low percents so if you can get the up tilt off of a down throw, you get an extra ten percent rather than just doing down throw to up smash. I'd test it myself but hand problem s prevent me from playing right now. I think it's worth checking out.

I feel like DThrow > Usmash is stricly better.

 

[Tito Maas]

I two-framed a Ness with FSmash

 

[Tito Maas]

B-reversed SideB is amazing for tech reads since it goes further and is quicker. Obviously it's better on Dark Pit, but even Pit can tack on that extra damage in a chase situation. Learned it from ReRaze.

Not only is it great for tech chases, but even at high percents it's an amazing follow up to FAir, dash attack, sourspot BAir, NAir, and BThrow. Makes BThrow a lot better, honestly

 

[Nu~]

ReRaze
Hey, when you corrected me on pit's sheild safety in the CCI, where did you get those numbers?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1C1hmd4FoDdt3LwWCwuRMNNqVb8uJQL_g0KWgl4IOjXQ/htmlview
I know this link is incorrect because it only accounts for aerial safety when the character lands on the same frame the aerial hits, (ignoring many autocancel windows) but how do you calculate things like Nair is +5 on shield (which still seems insane to me unless you start using it on your opponents sheild and then retreat)?

I'm curious. I can't seem to replicate it

 

[ReRaze]

ReRaze
Hey, when you corrected me on pit's sheild safety in the CCI, where did you get those numbers?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1C1hmd4FoDdt3LwWCwuRMNNqVb8uJQL_g0KWgl4IOjXQ/htmlview
I know this link is incorrect because it only accounts for aerial safety when the character lands on the same frame the aerial hits, (ignoring many autocancel windows) but how do you calculate things like Nair is +5 on shield (which still seems insane to me unless you start using it on your opponents sheild and then retreat)?

I'm curious. I can't seem to replicate it

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r2VzoeB9AHdw6c4x967VKDwLIVteGW-9S6JMnMOvwHg/mobilebasic?pli=1 I'm not certain how accurate it is in terms of numbers but I am certain the moves it lists as safe are safe, as for nair being +5 That's definitely plausible if you land as close to the ground as possible with the AC and out of shield grab range, like you can delay nair after a shortop or fast fall it and still get the AC which are key things to make it safer.

 

[Nu~]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r2VzoeB9AHdw6c4x967VKDwLIVteGW-9S6JMnMOvwHg/mobilebasic?pli=1 I'm not certain how accurate it is in terms of numbers but I am certain the moves it lists as safe are safe, as for nair being +5 That's definitely plausible if you land as close to the ground as possible with the AC and out of shield grab range, like you can delay nair after a shortop or fast fall it and still get the AC which are key things to make it safer.

Yeah some things seem strange (mega man's metal blade being -2 spaced but +2 up close?? Same with pit's fair being -8 when not spaced but -9 when spaced...) but it seems plausible overall.

I'm interested in the way they calculated this...hm....well I have a bit more learning to do ^^.

By the way, out of curiosity, why do you main pit? I tried him before because I love uprising but he seemed a bit too "conventional" for my taste. Perhaps I was a bit hasty

 

[ReRaze]

Yeah some things seem strange (mega man's metal blade being -2 spaced but +2 up close?? Same with pit's fair being -8 when not spaced but -9 when spaced...) but it seems plausible overall.

I'm interested in the way they calculated this...hm....well I have a bit more learning to do ^^.

By the way, out of curiosity, why do you main pit? I tried him before because I love uprising but he seemed a bit too "conventional" for my taste. Perhaps I was a bit hasty

Oh I think you read Pit's one wrong haha it says spaced is -8 and not spaced is -9 (admittedly the format is messy but it states the spaced moves safety first, then the unspaced) Although I'm not sure why they would list unspaced fair, that's not safe at all. Not sure about megaman's metal blade thing though, might be a muckup or maybe that megaman can act sooner if his metal blade hits something. I've never touched megaman so not sure.

Same here haha I would like to know how they tested.

Pit was the first smash character I ever played haha so sentiment is there but I also loved uprising. Also I've kinda made a name and alot of friends as a Pit main so I don't really think I'll ever turn back now
There's also the fact that I don't care too much about winning I just want to do as well as I can with characters I like so I wouldn't pick up a strong character or top tier unless I liked them besides if Earth has shown me anything it's that Pit is strong enough as is.

 

[LancerStaff]

B-reversed SideB is amazing for tech reads since it goes further and is quicker. Obviously it's better on Dark Pit, but even Pit can tack on that extra damage in a chase situation. Learned it from ReRaze.

Not only is it great for tech chases, but even at high percents it's an amazing follow up to FAir, dash attack, sourspot BAir, NAir, and BThrow. Makes BThrow a lot better, honestly

Nitpick because I hate even minor misinformation, but B reverse side B isn't actually faster. Technically it covers more space faster but if we're talking strictly about frame data it's the same. By default the move is unreactable at point blank, b reversing simply moves point blank closer. And most people don't expect the thing to cover half of FD, lol.

 

[GP2]

mysmashcorner just released this video on countering Lucario's aura sphere edge guard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP0uVGTsMfA

He says (dark)Pit's best options are drop off fair or up air from the ledge. Do you guys agree? I for one think that side b could be a possibly better option because of the armor. If you know the lucario player will roll back to avoid it you can just b-reverse side b to make up the extra distance as well. Thoughts?

 

[Tito Maas]

mysmashcorner just released this video on countering Lucario's aura sphere edge guard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP0uVGTsMfA

He says (dark)Pit's best options are drop off fair or up air from the ledge. Do you guys agree? I for one think that side b could be a possibly better option because of the armor. If you know the lucario player will roll back to avoid it you can just b-reverse side b to make up the extra distance as well. Thoughts?

When I saw the video title, my first thought was to us Uair to combat it. I probably wouldn't go SideB very often

 

[LancerStaff]

I think GOs would work too... Just shove him away and regrab. Either that or he has a way to punish it lol.

Uair keeps you out of harm's way, but Fair is safe on shield. Either would be a good choice.

 

[Orchestrafanboy19]

I think GOs would work too... Just shove him away and regrab. Either that or he has a way to punish it lol.

Uair keeps you out of harm's way, but Fair is safe on shield. Either would be a good choice.

How is fair safe on shield? Proper spacing?

 

[LancerStaff]

With good spacing and an autocancel, yeah. Lucario's got really low traction IIRC so it should be easy to space from the ledge.

 

[InfinitySoul]

What does Gos means ?

 

[LancerStaff]

Gaurdian Orbitars.

 

[GP2]

Smash science is an interesting channel that records a lot of data on the entirety of the smash 4 cast. He did a video over a year ago recording roll lag,distance, and other stuff on rolls for everyone and he recorded that dark pit's rolls(both forward and back) get less distance than Pit's. Can someone confirm this?



Here's the video and the data they recorded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkWdfYfBDDY
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wNTYjJCA6EM2aXD5nO8l9LHLjjim3HIiDJt8p4-Pseo/edit#gid=0


EDIT: After looking more closely at the data, it's kind of weird because the numbers recorded are not actual measurements but just how many characters the character in question beat in terms of roll distance, duration, and end lag. Not sure if the people at smash science accounted for ties so that's why dark pit's might be lower. I'm not sure though so look at it if you want to

 

[LancerStaff]

I'm 100% sure they're the same since I can control two characters with one controller.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Can pit reliably camp?

 

[InfinitySoul]

Can pit reliably camp?

Yes and no.
If the opponent doesn't want to come, sure you can outcamp him with guided arrows and shoot more with Full hop.
But if the opponent runs in, you willl be punished or put yourself in extremly disadvantage state.
Basically you can force opponent to approach if they don't want to, but you must stop firering arrows as soon as you see them coming.

 

[ReRaze]

Can pit reliably camp?

Much like what InfinitySoul said, Pit can reliably outcamp just about any other character in the game including the likes of Link and Toon Link. For reference, fullhop arrows have less cooldown than luigi's fireballs and have a fast enough firing rate to stop shiek camping with needles. But he can't exactly camp everyone per se and the stage is a part of that. It's harder to camp on battlefield and dreamland because arrows don't go through platforms. Character's like Marth, Corrin and Robin are easier to camp but for characters like shiek you can't really camp her, she's too fast, you can only outcamp her should she choose to try and camp you.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

So pit is a legit all-rounder

 

[InfinitySoul]

Will leave it here.

How to deal with Fox sideB recovery :
http://metauprising.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/beating-fox-sideb-with-multimrgi.html

 

[Z1GMA]

What is a good (and yet fairly easy) thing for Pit/DP to do if they grab someone at 0% center stage?
I'm looking for something better just an aerial/Usmash, but not as complicated as footstools.

Is fthrow > dash + rising SH Dair > DJ Nair legit?

 

[InfinitySoul]

Dthrow > Dair > Nair is true on some chars.

Fthrow > Dash Atk > Usmash but I am not quite sure Blue beast probably knows.

 

[SJMistery]

Seriously, does the Up-B have any intangibility, invinicibility, etc. frames, or anything that makes it a worthwile approach option? I have seen WAY too much Pits come in with that move,always making me think "they do know this move has no hitbox right?". It comes to the point I wonder if there IS something they are trying to get with this thing and they just suck at exploiting it...

 

[InfinitySoul]

Making it an approach option ? In neutral ? What ?

UpB does have intangibility frames, which can come handy during recovery. Check here for more informations http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Pit

 

[SJMistery]

Making it an approach option ? In neutral ? What ?

UpB does have intangibility frames, which can come handy during recovery. Check here for more informations http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Pit

Yup, they use it to approach and to try to dodge my up-airs. The result is typically them eating a Smash attack to the face afterwards