Meta Two Sides of the Same Coin - Pit/ Dark Pit Meta Game Discussion

[GP2]

I feel that it would only be a good option if you know your opponent is going to charge in since most of the time you will be facing your opponent and you will have to do a dash away into the sheild drop. However I would have to practice this as I have not even attempted to learn sheild dropping until now. Also, a question I have is would bair have landing lag afterwards?


Speaking of bair, I was playing some online matches today with some friends and I was getting bair into bair a lot which I have not attempted before really. It happened at low to mid percent(doubt it would work past 55%). I'm not sure if it was a true combo or not but I'm probably gonna test it in the morning. If it is a true combo I feel like you can do a mix up after it as well depending on whether or not the opponent jumps. If they jump you could jump as well and do an up air and if not you could land and do a turn around ftilt or maybe even an fsmash.

 

[Dusk Pit]

Something about Dark Pit's electroshockarm seems off. Shouldn't it be safer on shield than Pit's due to electric effect and 1 Extra % damage? Yet they are equally unsafe. Pit and Dark Pit can shield Ike's late fsmash which starts at frame 33 but both fail to shield Ike's second hit of dsmash which is frame 32. This is really weird.

 

[LancerStaff]

Something about Dark Pit's electroshockarm seems off. Shouldn't it be safer on shield than Pit's due to electric effect and 1 Extra % damage? Yet they are equally unsafe. Pit and Dark Pit can shield Ike's late fsmash which starts at frame 33 but both fail to shield Ike's second hit of dsmash which is frame 32. This is really weird.

Well, no. With the change to shields in 1.0.9 hitlag modifiers such as electrical effects doesn't change safety on shield. When it comes to raw damage causing shieldstun, it works in a tiered system. Attacks that do >

...Er, somebody could of told me the post was cut off. Meh, 2am, not doing it rn.

 

[LancerStaff]

ReRaze
Random 2am (or at least it was lol) thought, wondering if you can try it out for me when you can...

I heard Pit's Nair is so safe that apparently if the opponent does anything but dodge or an especially fast OoS move, Pit gets a free grab. Imagine what we could get off of reading a dodge...

Mm, still thinking about jab setting up into smashes. Even if it's more of an RPS then a 50/50 then that'd still be a huge find. Some characters have startup on their double jumps, so to speak. Ness and Mewtwo namely. If jab > Usmash can only be escaped with an airdodge with them then that's a 50/50 between U and Fsmash.

I was mucking around a bit and I think there's potential combos/setups with the first hit of Dsmash as well, though I think it requires the target to DI in. Pretty common in my experience.

Well... Basically I keep coming back to try and find potential kill setups. Pit more then anything needs development in that department. What are ways to lead into smashes or Bair at kill %s?

 

[ReRaze]

I heard Pit's Nair is so safe that apparently if the opponent does anything but dodge or an especially fast OoS move, Pit gets a free grab. Imagine what we could get off of reading a dodge...

According to KH, when perfectly autocancelled (i.e fast fall ac) Nair is -6 on shield for an OoS option and +1 for non OoS. I don't think I'd need to explain it's viability to you also you can space it to hit shield and still avoid shield grabs.

Mm, still thinking about jab setting up into smashes. Even if it's more of an RPS then a 50/50 then that'd still be a huge find. Some characters have startup on their double jumps, so to speak. Ness and Mewtwo namely. If jab > Usmash can only be escaped with an airdodge with them then that's a 50/50 between U and Fsmash.
I was mucking around a bit and I think there's potential combos/setups with the first hit of Dsmash as well, though I think it requires the target to DI in. Pretty common in my experience.

I think jab > smash attack may be viable if they jump...but probably only on some characters, fast fallers may be able to shield, I'll try it out (when im not drowning in schoolwork) and get back to you. Yeah with down smash I often find myself being able to followup with a dash attack esp when they miss their tech or otherwise.

Well... Basically I keep coming back to try and find potential kill setups. Pit more then anything needs development in that department. What are ways to lead into smashes or Bair at kill %s?

I think RAR dair is our go to kill setup, if it spikes you can get guaranteed followups (into usmash via falling uair) and near the ledge it leads to bair for kills, do you happen to know how punishable it is? from my experince its pretty safe.

I'm starting to get pretty consistent with nair > usmash. There are two ways, the first one is grounded, it's easy with retreating nair but it would help more if it reliably worked with advancing nair.
The other way is fast fall autocancel aerial nair, if you are above your opponent and they jump or are in the air you will fall through them and you will be able to link into usmash, I find myself using this one alot more. Also if they stay in shield like in the vid above you could go for a grab. If they see the grab coming and try to roll or spotdodge side b works great, the pull back even let's you avoid shield grabs if you mispace. I use this mixup ALOT it works reallly well.

I think footstool OoS (and just footstool in general) is a brilliant option that really should be used, I first saw it used by megaman mains and I thought Pit could make use of it too...well whaddya know!

Footstool is our fastest OoS option at 2 frames and it guarantees a dair on majority of the cast essentially giving us a frame 2 dair OoS. After the dair the possibilities are endless. It even helps with footstool resetting because the second foostool in the combo will have a lower jump height. Jab resets are generally how I land smash attacks lmao.

With the dair > dair > dair > bair combo u saw in the video, it is true. If he DI'd out which he didn't I wouldn't be able to link as many dairs but since he would be further out in the drop zone it will still kill.

Also dude you definitely should join the discord, it's really active but not only that but there's really good, constructive discussions regarding Pit and his Meta. Koiba you should hang out in the discord too~

 

[LancerStaff]

I think RAR dair is our go to kill setup, if it spikes you can get guaranteed followups (into usmash via falling uair) and near the ledge it leads to bair for kills, do you happen to know how punishable it is? from my experince its pretty safe.

I'm starting to get pretty consistent with nair > usmash. There are two ways, the first one is grounded, it's easy with retreating nair but it would help more if it reliably worked with advancing nair.
The other way is fast fall autocancel aerial nair, if you are above your opponent and they jump or are in the air you will fall through them and you will be able to link into usmash, I find myself using this one alot more. Also if they stay in shield like in the vid above you could go for a grab. If they see the grab coming and try to roll or spotdodge side b works great, the pull back even let's you avoid shield grabs if you mispace. I use this mixup ALOT it works reallly well.

I think footstool OoS (and just footstool in general) is a brilliant option that really should be used, I first saw it used by megaman mains and I thought Pit could make use of it too...well whaddya know!

Footstool is our fastest OoS option at 2 frames and it guarantees a dair on majority of the cast essentially giving us a frame 2 dair OoS. After the dair the possibilities are endless. It even helps with footstool resetting because the second foostool in the combo will have a lower jump height. Jab resets are generally how I land smash attacks lmao.

With the dair > dair > dair > bair combo u saw in the video, it is true. If he DI'd out which he didn't I wouldn't be able to link as many dairs but since he would be further out in the drop zone it will still kill.

Also dude you definitely should join the discord, it's really active but not only that but there's really good, constructive discussions regarding Pit and his Meta. Koiba you should hang out in the discord too~

Dair is safe as long as you get far enough away from the opponent. You may be able to land with the move as long as you're out of grab range or other good OoS stuff, and like this Dair > ground bounce > Usmash I'm pretty confident is a true combo. I like the Dair spike stuff but my problem with it is that it's really inconsistent because you can tech it. It feels like at higher levels it's not going to be viable. Similarly with having the opponent fall out of Nair... They may be able to escape sooner or even just stay in the move to avoid the Usmash. The footstool stuff looks pretty promising though. I'll have to look into it when I really get back into Smash.

I've been meaning to check out the discord but I don't have an account or w/e so I've been lazy about it... If you really want me on it I guess I'l try and get on soon.

 

[CHOMPY]

I've been messing around with the early combo strings on the computers, but haven't been able to fully test it out on anyone, due to the lag online. According to M2K, every move you make on Wi-Fi is 5 frames behind, so it's really hard to pull it off on someone.

I discovered that Pit can do a grab to dair to falling uair to regrab/usmash at lower percentages (0-15%) on the heavies, fast fallers, and light weight. It's harder to pull it off on floaties like Lucas, Kirby, Peach.

What do you think? LancerStaff please open up an account on discord, so we can discuss some things.

 

[LancerStaff]

I've been messing around with the early combo strings on the computers, but haven't been able to fully test it out on anyone, due to the lag online. According to M2K, every move you make on Wi-Fi is 5 frames behind, so it's really hard to pull it off on someone.

I discovered that Pit can do a grab to dair to falling uair to regrab/usmash at lower percentages (0-15%) on the heavies, fast fallers, and light weight. It's harder to pull it off on floaties like Lucas, Kirby, Peach.

What do you think? LancerStaff please open up an account on discord, so we can discuss some things.

Dthrow > Uair > regrab was known from before you even became the moderator, I think. It kinda fell out of favor quickly because it was hard, lol. I could never pull it off. Adding in a Dair would be some easy extra damage though, and may make it easier.

 

[CHOMPY]

I realize the dthrow to falling uair was known (failed), but adding the dair can help aid the ability to drag the character down infront of Pit.

 

[LancerStaff]

So, uh... Where are you guys talking on discord? Can I get a link or something?

 

[ReRaze]

So, uh... Where are you guys talking on discord? Can I get a link or something?

https://discord.gg/0gAyCDnHDVTrEYTU

 

[GP2]

You guys should check out this video that was posted by reraze recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyoneKv1pWY

The best pit combo video I've seen by far. He has some other awesome pit stuff on his twitter. The dude is really good.

 

[Koiba]

You guys should check out this video that was posted by reraze recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyoneKv1pWY

The best pit combo video I've seen by far. He has some other awesome pit stuff on his twitter. The dude is really good.

ReRaze qorl you're famous

Notable things I saw:
Everything
Dair is actually super good if you actually use it correctly. Which I don't do lol
That dair lock against that red rob omg
And that uair landing to dsmash against that ZSS

We should play, but we're gonna be lagging 15 fps cricri ;w;

 

[ReRaze]

LancerStaff
The Pit discord is really active with metagame talk and it's really good you should really try join if you can. We just came up with something interesting. Nair.

Rar nair true combos into (b reverse) electroshock, arrows and aerials. Near the ledge it willl combo into bair and kill. At centre stage around 60-80% it true combos into electroshock for kills. this is Sh nair, it only works with rar.

But with full hop nair it combos with both front and back hit. And speaking of rar nair it is an underused option because if we cross shields with it we are in a really good position to grab or get a read if they choose a defensive option.

Also it is possible to space full hop nair out of shield grab range. Oh and you have to get the late autocancel either by shff or waiting a but after sh before nair.

 

[LancerStaff]

I've tried but none of my browsers work with discord... An app is out of the question, but a mobile web page or something might work.

RAR Nair > Electroshock... Sounds too good to be true. Just RAR SHFFAC, or are we having the opponent fall out again? If I had some video examples I could test how easy it is to escape. Also I found that RAR Nair was better on cross-up months ago...

Regardless we should keep a tight lid on this. Gutting Nair this late into the game might be a death sentence.

 

[ReRaze]

I've tried but none of my browsers work with discord... An app is out of the question, but a mobile web page or something might work.

RAR Nair > Electroshock... Sounds too good to be true. Just RAR SHFFAC, or are we having the opponent fall out again? If I had some video examples I could test how easy it is to escape. Also I found that RAR Nair was better on cross-up months ago...

Regardless we should keep a tight lid on this. Gutting Nair this late into the game might be a death sentence.

Hmmm...what's wrong with your browsers? is your computer just old?

Nah opponent doesn't fall out, just get the last hit of nair and it will true combo. Haha, I normally take note of all the meta stuff u post, must have not seen that one.

It works with no DI or DI in, can't test DI up or out on my own. So far only tested on Pit.

If you land more than the last hit of nair it doesn't true combo into electroshock, but you do get true combo aerials and it kills pretty early with rar bair near the ledge.

 

[BrightTempest]

Rar nair true combos into (b reverse) electroshock

Since you're specifically stating electroshock arm I suppose upperdash arm isn't true then. Also on the note of RAR has it been decided on whether or not RAR dair is better than regular dair?

 

[LancerStaff]

Hmmm...what's wrong with your browsers? is your computer just old?

Nah opponent doesn't fall out, just get the last hit of nair and it will true combo. Haha, I normally take note of all the meta stuff u post, must have not seen that one.

It works with no DI or DI in, can't test DI up or out on my own. So far only tested on Pit.

If you land more than the last hit of nair it doesn't true combo into electroshock, but you do get true combo aerials and it kills pretty early with rar bair near the ledge.

Don't have a personal PC, my phone is ancient, and my tablet is a potato. Even tried my Wii U and N3DS browsers and the page would still slow down to a crawl...

Criminy that sounds nuts. The % range I imagine is pretty big. Yeah, I should be able to test it before the end of the week.

Since you're specifically stating electroshock arm I suppose upperdash arm isn't true then. Also on the note of RAR has it been decided on whether or not RAR dair is better than regular dair?

Everything on Electroshock is the same besides the knockback, damage, and the electric effect. The combo would work but since Upperdash is weaker then it's not as useful.

 

[ReRaze]

Since you're specifically stating electroshock arm I suppose upperdash arm isn't true then. Also on the note of RAR has it been decided on whether or not RAR dair is better than regular dair?

Upperdash true combos too, its just its not worth noting because it wont kill. They are both good, depends on the situation, in general, rar dair is better for offstage combos and regular dair is better for onstage combos.

lol ninja'd

LancerStaff Damn that sucks man, hmmm it should work though...does Discord just not load? sometimes it takes ages to load for me too. Otherwise I'm not sure how I could help you out :/

Yeah this needs some proper testing first tbh, I'll leave the detailed testing to you haha.

 

[BrightTempest]

Upperdash true combos too, its just its not worth noting because it wont kill. They are both good, depends on the situation, in general, rar dair is better for offstage combos and regular dair is better for onstage combos.

Thanks and also, in the foot stool to dair video is Pit hitting with the sour hitbox because it's a little hard to tell. I assume so since it isn't ground bouncing Corrin but I just wanted to make sure.

 

[LancerStaff]

LancerStaff Damn that sucks man, hmmm it should work though...does Discord just not load? sometimes it takes ages to load for me too. Otherwise I'm not sure how I could help you out :/

Yeah this needs some proper testing first tbh, I'll leave the detailed testing to you haha.

It loads just fine until I get to the chat room or w/e, then it runs ridiculously slow and eventually disconnects me. You have a Wii U right? Try it on there and you can see for yourself.

 

[Koiba]

Yoooo can we get video footage of this so I can have a reference? :ooo

 

[ReRaze]

Thanks and also, in the foot stool to dair video is Pit hitting with the sour hitbox because it's a little hard to tell. I assume so since it isn't ground bouncing Corrin but I just wanted to make sure.

Yup, you always use the sourspot for footstool combos.

It loads just fine until I get to the chat room or w/e, then it runs ridiculously slow and eventually disconnects me. You have a Wii U right? Try it on there and you can see for yourself.

I've never heard of that issue before. Looked it up, generally an internet issue some people have had success flushing their DNS, Switching server regions or Using web browser version.

Koiba

The first clip works with both forward and reverse nair (and always guarantees just the last hit). Second one only works with RAR nair. And you can true combo into aerials with rar and normal as long as you get more than just the last hit.

Note: this is 3DS so blast zones are alot bigger, that nair to bair normally kills and if you get a big wii u stage it works at slightly higher percents to still combo and kill. Pit was at 77% for all the combos in this vid.

Excuse the quality

 

[Koiba]

Yup, you always use the sourspot for footstool combos.


I've never heard of that issue before. Looked it up, generally an internet issue some people have had success flushing their DNS, Switching server regions or Using web browser version.

Koiba

The first clip works with both forward and reverse nair (and always guarantees just the last hit). Second one only works with RAR nair. And you can true combo into aerials with rar and normal as long as you get more than just the last hit.

Note: this is 3DS so blast zones are alot bigger, that nair to bair normally kills and if you get a big wii u stage it works at slightly higher percents to still combo and kill. Pit was at 77% for all the combos in this vid.

Excuse the quality

Thank you~




Welp, time to go practice this now lol

 

[alexthepony]

I struggle against characters that are difficult to zone-mostly little mac and captain falcon could I have help?

 

[Nat 1]

Instead of zoning these characters you might wanna try playing a Bait & Punish game. Wait for them to commit to something and then punish them with a grab, aerial or other move. Do this while staying just outside of their effective range so you tempt them to go in.

 

[CHOMPY]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYgX1-3MYF0

I wonder if D.Pit/Pit can benefit with the Z-Axis...

 

[LancerStaff]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYgX1-3MYF0

I wonder if D.Pit/Pit can benefit with the Z-Axis...

Well, they're generally not hurt by it since none of their hitboxes are attached to their moves... Arrows can because they're small though.

Don't think there's anything particularly relevant on them though, we'd know by now.

 

[LancerStaff]

Late hit Nair > Ftilt is true (according to the combo counter, same for everything else here) to about 45%, but you have to chase with a walk. LHNair > DA is true to 55%. I even got LHNair to combo into Usmash all the way up to 95%, though only once. They're all pretty dependent on how close you were to the opponent when the last hit lands though.

Pit has an insane frame advantage on hit from this move when used properly.

 

[CHOMPY]

Can it be shorthopped as well? Also does this work on all of the characters?

 

[LancerStaff]

Can it be shorthopped as well? Also does this work on all of the characters?

That's how I did it, so yeah. Don't think you need to face backwards for them.

This is just what I found against the Pit CPU while getting a feel for it though. I was hoping to test it out properly later... Not sure if it's going to happen tonight.

Rage in this would be very interesting here since Nair has ridiculously low knockback, and the moves we're comboing into, not so much. Also I was on 3DS so I'm not sure how they'll kill, if at all anyway.

 

[CHOMPY]

That's how I did it, so yeah. Don't think you need to face backwards for them.

This is just what I found against the Pit CPU while getting a feel for it though. I was hoping to test it out properly later... Not sure if it's going to happen tonight.

Rage in this would be very interesting here since Nair has ridiculously low knockback, and the moves we're comboing into, not so much. Also I was on 3DS so I'm not sure how they'll kill, if at all anyway.

If you are ever up for testing stuff. Add me and we can work together and take notes.

My NID is Chompy621

 

[alexthepony]

I noticed a flaw in my play style, i tend to wait for my opponent to do something stupid and then punish it on reaction. This doesn't work on skilled players and is why i struggle against fast characters as well. I think this is because I play a lot of online and for glory. Has someone been in my situation before? Can I have help?

 

[LancerStaff]

If you are ever up for testing stuff. Add me and we can work together and take notes.

My NID is Chompy621

Thanks for the offer but I prefer to test things locally, mostly so I don't have to deal with lag. I'll probably add you just in case of something coming up though.

I noticed a flaw in my play style, i tend to wait for my opponent to do something stupid and then punish it on reaction. This doesn't work on skilled players and is why i struggle against fast characters as well. I think this is because I play a lot of online and for glory. Has someone been in my situation before? Can I have help?

Nothing wrong with that playstyle, but you're right that it won't work all the time. Sometimes you just need to commit to something harder to scare them into doing something else or be bold and try a dodge.

 

[SmashGamer1998]

He uses Viridi's Power of Flight? Odd. It would make more sense for him to use Pandora's power.

NO! He Lost that when Pandora stopped hiding in his wings and was defeated in her Amazon form In Uprising . It makes total sense that he is using Viridi's Power of Flight

 

[alexthepony]

why doesn't earth ever fair in neutral? it's always so tempting to do when the opponent uses a lot of aerials in neutral, what does he do instead?

 

[LancerStaff]

why doesn't earth ever fair in neutral? it's always so tempting to do when the opponent uses a lot of aerials in neutral, what does he do instead?

Mostly it's walking jabs. I'm guessing he usually doesn't go with Fair because it's unsafe on whiff.

 

[CHOMPY]

Throwing out short hop empty fairs can often times be used as a baiting tool. Depending on the spacing between you and your opponent, you can either toss out a long range ftilt, but can potentially get punished for it, or throw out a 3-hit jab, but with less range.

Sometimes I will just throw out a RAR bair pretending to hit the player in hopes that they try it punish it, and then I hit them with a fsmash. It also works very effective when they are in the corner with not a lot of room to breathe.

 

[Orchestrafanboy19]

Anyone else been noticing a lot of Pits on FG? I'm pretty sure most of you don't play FG, but did something happen in the Pit meta, or is it simply a coincidence? I know Earth's been doing well lately, but is there anything else?

 

[LancerStaff]

Anyone else been noticing a lot of Pits on FG? I'm pretty sure most of you don't play FG, but did something happen in the Pit meta, or is it simply a coincidence? I know Earth's been doing well lately, but is there anything else?

Seems to be a surge whenever we get a good combo video, hehe.