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Meta Two Sides of the Same Coin - Pit/ Dark Pit Meta Game Discussion

LancerStaff

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Not sure if Pit can effectively cover the space with Fair... Not with just one universal timing, anyway. Nair would probably work better since it lasts longer, or maybe Dsmash could effectively be used with just one timing...

Something I just thought up, though. What if the spike on Dair leads into itself? Let's say (by some miracle) we get a D/Fthrow on the ledge at a low percent, read the AD, and get the spike; They wouldn't fall far enough to even be a double jump's distance away from the ledge, but we're still right on top of them. Can we act fast enough for even a mixup?
 

ReRaze

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Not sure if Pit can effectively cover the space with Fair... Not with just one universal timing, anyway. Nair would probably work better since it lasts longer, or maybe Dsmash could effectively be used with just one timing...

Something I just thought up, though. What if the spike on Dair leads into itself? Let's say (by some miracle) we get a D/Fthrow on the ledge at a low percent, read the AD, and get the spike; They wouldn't fall far enough to even be a double jump's distance away from the ledge, but we're still right on top of them. Can we act fast enough for even a mixup?
double dair works i've done it a couple times, it catches jumps and recoveries too if it doesn't true combo. You have to already be falling the dair though if you wan't to follwup better, jumping dair > falling dair works too but at lower percents so it's more iffy. Overall I think it's something to go for in the mid percent range like 50's i guess.

Also dthrow dair spike ain't no miracle lol it is a viable setup.
 
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MKchouy

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Just wanted to post this, not sure if it's already known, but I saw a footstool combo in Xacer's video so I decided to put it into a down throw. We can get a true 74% off of one grab on some characters (I didn't add a second rising dair in the vid which still true combos).

Edit: Also some characters have the unfortunate perfect weight and fall speed for another rising dair footstool reset. Making it an 84% true combo off of grab. (I was too slow on the last dair to nair for it to combo on the counter but we know it already true combos).


Played against my friend who uses Lucina and I got the Down throw dair footstool almost every time at low %. Obviously this is hard when they DI the footstool but even if you mess up half way through you get a lot of percent.
 
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MKchouy

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Only problem with that is your opponent can tech the ground. Then what do you do?
You can't tech a footstool. Only thing the opponent can do is DI the footstool so you have to follow their DI to dair reset again.
 

useredsa

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Just wanted to post this, not sure if it's already known, but I saw a footstool combo in Xacer's video so I decided to put it into a down throw. We can get a true 74% off of one grab on some characters (I didn't add a second rising dair in the vid which still true combos).

Edit: Also some characters have the unfortunate perfect weight and fall speed for another rising dair footstool reset. Making it an 84% true combo off of grab. (I was too slow on the last dair to nair for it to combo on the counter but we know it already true combos).


Played against my friend who uses Lucina and I got the Down throw dair footstool almost every time at low %. Obviously this is hard when they DI the footstool but even if you mess up half way through you get a lot of percent.
Are we sure those footstools (specially the last ones) are true combos?
 

Koiba

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Are we sure those footstools (specially the last ones) are true combos?
You can't tech a footstool and if you get hit by a move that has low enough knockback (ftilt and tippered dair at low percents) you'll be forced to do a regulag getup

The same situation can be done if your opponent misses a tech



So technically yeah these are true combos



But what is the FAF for the opponent if they get footstooled?
 

CHOMPY

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I was watching a player use Dark Pit against a Diddy Kong player. Dark Pit used the uair to bait the airdodge, then Diddy lands. After when both characters landed, he managed to land a hit on Diddy with a dtilt.

Out of curiosity, is that a true frame trap?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKEuB3NSn7w

Starts at 5:59
 

useredsa

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I was watching a player use Dark Pit against a Diddy Kong player. Dark Pit used the uair to bait the airdodge, then Diddy lands. After when both characters landed, he managed to land a hit on Diddy with a dtilt.

Out of curiosity, is that a true frame trap?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKEuB3NSn7w

Starts at 5:59
He lands with a fair, thus taking lagg, and thus meaning it's not a frame trap because he couldn't have done that then.

By the way, youtube videos can be linked so that they start in the specific moment you want them. Just press share, tick where it says "start at" or something like that and select the moment.

Cheers,
edsa ;).
 

LancerStaff

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Whipped up some data on the buffed Electroshock with rage and max freshness. This is against Mario a roll's distance away from the ledge of FD, no inputs at all once he's hit.

:4darkpit::4mario:
<50?% 80%
50-70% 75%
90% 70%
110% 65%
130% 55%
150+% 45%

CHOMPY CHOMPY ReRaze ReRaze Discuss. Now. :crazy:
 

ReRaze

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Whipped up some data on the buffed Electroshock with rage and max freshness. This is against Mario a roll's distance away from the ledge of FD, no inputs at all once he's hit.

:4darkpit::4mario:
<50?% 80%
50-70% 75%
90% 70%
110% 65%
130% 55%
150+% 45%

CHOMPY CHOMPY ReRaze ReRaze Discuss. Now. :crazy:
Well....let's compare to fsmash
-the dash? F-smash has absurd range to make up for it.
-the super armour? F-smash has a disjointed hitbox
-the kill power? about the same but F-smash can catch spot dodges although the knockback angle for electroshock means it kills earlier this can work both ways, if hit from the other end of the stage the opponent can live longer, fsmash may kill off the top but ideally the upperdash arm is really useful for those situations. One might say, that in that case you could use usmash instead of the upperdash but usmash doesn't have the type of safety in super armour or disjoint on the ground nor does it have much range horizontally
-frame data? Both are unsafe but F-smash comes out faster and is less punishable if spaced right.
So it is pretty much a second fsmash.
I'm not saying the buff was pointless or that it doesnt help much, I love it, this new elecrroshock it is absolutely absurd and it is extremely deadly near the ledge and if one knows how to use it. This was a much needed buff for the electroshock but not for Dark Pit himself as a whole. In terms of overall utility I think some people are overhyping its usefulness. you may not always find yourself near the ledge for Electroshock or Fsmash to kill reliably which is why the upperdash helps even more with killing consistently. I don't see too much of a reason to use it over fsmash it's just another good option especially for certsin MU's e.g against luma, ganon, little mac, etc.

Consider the electroshock like a ness bthrow, at kill percents better players will avoid the ledge at all costs and try not to get grabbed, the electroshock is even easier to avoid. The only way you will get your opponent near the ledge easily is if they are chasing you off and using the arm in this situation most likely means you will be knocking them accross the stage. (ness does't even have this problem for obvious reasons).

Most people aren't even DIing the Electroshock arm properly resulting in ridiculously early kills most likely because they aren't used to it. Regarding testing horizontal knockback in training mode offen results in much earlier kills because of no DI, so the opponent will just float into the blast zone.

TL:DR it's kinda a niche but it's still really good.

Also it's kinda late here (and damn hot) so I didn't bother double checking or thinking too hard. If I said anything stupid please by all means correct me.
 
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LancerStaff

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Remember that when you B-reverse Electroshock it practically reaches halfway across FD, and as a result there's a lot more reach then Fsmash. The armor means a load more then the disjoint, since Electroshock can't clash on anything since it's a special.

Heck, being positional isn't a big deal because you can run up next to an opponent and use Electroshock away from them and it'll blast 'em the other way, or if you're just inside them when it triggers it can launch backwards.

It's probably the best landing punish in the game because of the reach.
 

ReRaze

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Remember that when you B-reverse Electroshock it practically reaches halfway across FD, and as a result there's a lot more reach then Fsmash. The armor means a load more then the disjoint, since Electroshock can't clash on anything since it's a special.

Heck, being positional isn't a big deal because you can run up next to an opponent and use Electroshock away from them and it'll blast 'em the other way, or if you're just inside them when it triggers it can launch backwards.

It's probably the best landing punish in the game because of the reach.
b reverse arms are absolutely amazing and are probably the reason my fingers hurt but the further you are away from the opponent the more time they have to react. F-smash may not cover as much range but it covers what it does in an instant. Like I said it gives another good option for Dark Pit I guess reaching the things F-smash can't but I'd try limiting myself from using the arms from that far away for obvious reasons unless, like you said, using it to catching landings.

And there is still the issue that fsmash is alot safer because with the arm you land right next to someone and you are quite vulnerable to a charged jump cancel usmash or something OoS whereas Fsmash isnt so much.

I've actually had my arms clash on more than one occasion with certain fsmashes which I thought was silly. They are even randomly beaten out by some moves e.g Falcon's jab. Any idea why?

Launching backwards isn't something I would rely on....I don't play Dark Pit too much but does that actuslly work consistently? Also why would you ever need to launch backwards (except maybe for some mixup or situation I can't think of :p )...because
-At centre stage it doesn't matter which way it launches
-If you are chasing them to the ledge you should probably use a forward facing one
-If they are chasing you to the ledge you can run up to them and use electroshock away from them...To get that backwards hit you have to be somewhat inside them which in that case you may as well do a turnaround arm. Anyway both are kinda unsafe because you are charging towards your opponent without any superarmour and hoping they do something stupid like roll towards the ledge...somewhere they shouldn't be against Dark Pit. If they roll inwards they could probably live longer even if you get the read. But that's if they even decide to sit there as you run towards them.

I'm getting carried away >.< The electroshock is really good but like I said it's overall utility is kinda niche.

Edit: For the sake of discussion I was being extremely critical of the electroshock arm but personally I think it was a ridiculously good buff that completely makes up for Dark Pit's inferiorities compared to Pit.
 
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Routa

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Btw how early does the aerial version kill now? I mean if you hit a shield with it you should be to "retreat" with it. I cannot test myself due to being in Germany atm and my 2DS is still broken so yeah...
 

Koiba

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Well just a little fun fact:


We can kill :4jigglypuff: at 0% with full rage with a fresh electroshock at the ledge when :4jigglypuff: charging a smash attack on FD and no inputs by :4jigglypuff:


There's NO way that this will ever happen in a real match lol


I tried the same with fsmash and :4jigglypuff: popped out of the first hit because she's so light
 

Dusk Pit

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Btw how early does the aerial version kill now? I mean if you hit a shield with it you should be to "retreat" with it. I cannot test myself due to being in Germany atm and my 2DS is still broken so yeah...
It kills about 15% earlier now. Falcon dies at about 125% at the ledge without rage or DI on FD. Mario dies at 100% with max rage and perfect DI.
 

Koiba

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yeah there was some good post on this thread on the dair's hbox and stuff. I can't find it
Well I couldn't find anything realated to dair's hitboxes in this thread but in the social we did talk about it

So I was testing stuff, namely how Dair's spike works. Things were going completely off the rails right away because the frames weren't matching up. I'm tired right now but something's wrong with Nair... Might actually come out on frame 5 rather then 4, which would kinda suck.

Anyway, now I completely understand how Dair's various launch angles work. There's four. Two on frame 10, then one on 11 and then 12. The fast angle (silly name, but it's only notable for it's speed), the spike angle (there's technically two depending on which side the opponent gets hit by it but there's a negligible difference), the KO angle (highest upwards KO potential due to BKB and angle), and the combo angle, in that order. I imagine we can stick with these names from here on out... (So fast Dair, Dair spike, KO Dair, and combo Dair.)

Real quick I need to say that the hitboxes on it aren't as bad as I previously thought. It's just that the tail-end of the trail doesn't have a hitbox. Imagine this dealie but upside-down as the visual: η And then this as reality: u So one side looks longer but isn't. And it actually looks like a frame 8 move but tons of moves don't match the animation in startup so whatever.

Anyway, think of our U broken into four pieces. First two are larger while the last two are smaller, meaning the second, bottom-most piece is nearly centered. That's the spike.

No question in my mind that it's significantly biased to the back. It'll spike if the opponent is slightly in front or less slightly behind... Meaning that we should always go for spikes with our backs turned. As an added bonus, the fast angle launches the lowest and farthest horizontally out of the non-spikes and we're more likely to get that if we mess up.

Also means that when we go for Dair spikes into a kill we should RAR it. We'll be lined-up perfectly for a Usmash if we cross-up and if we were going for a Fsmash we'll turn around anyway.

Planning on finally making that video now that I've worked all this out... But that might have to wait a week depending on how things go.
So is it like this?

View attachment 89436

Red: Fast dair

Yellow: Spike dair

Blue: Kill dair

Purple: Combo dair
Did this help?
 

LancerStaff

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(Dair video?)

Nope
W-Whelp...

Anywho, ReRaze ReRaze , random sleepy thought. There's that kill setup with Nair right? What if we short hop airdodged, (SHAD if you're familiar) into a double jump Nair? This...Would be pretty big, wouldn't it? Obviously much more startup the a normal dodge, but we can get the Nair out much faster then if we did with a grounded dodge and it's much more flexible, and Nair is incredibly safe on top of that. I'm pretty sure Nair will AC like this... 3DS ran out of juice so I can't figure this out at 3 a.m. like I usually do.
 

ReRaze

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W-Whelp...

Anywho, ReRaze ReRaze , random sleepy thought. There's that kill setup with Nair right? What if we short hop airdodged, (SHAD if you're familiar) into a double jump Nair? This...Would be pretty big, wouldn't it? Obviously much more startup the a normal dodge, but we can get the Nair out much faster then if we did with a grounded dodge and it's much more flexible, and Nair is incredibly safe on top of that. I'm pretty sure Nair will AC like this... 3DS ran out of juice so I can't figure this out at 3 a.m. like I usually do.
Tried it out but the last hit of nair keeps knocking opponent out, I guess it has something to do with Pit not being able to reach the ground in time to stop the last hit due to double jump being higher than a simple short hop but im not too sure. Buuuut you may be on to something...How useful would SHAD double jump dair be? If you land the spike a falling uair can lead into usmash and at lower percents sourspot can lead to combos, could be a really good mixup.
 
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LancerStaff

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Tried it out but the last hit of nair keeps knocking opponent out, I guess it has something to do with Pit not being able to reach the ground in time to stop the last hit due to double jump being higher than a simple short hop but im not too sure. Buuuut you may be on to something...How useful would SHAD double jump dair be? If you land the spike a falling uair can lead into usmash and at lower percents sourspot can lead to combos, could be a really good mixup.
I'm probably going to look at it in a moment here but you could delay the DJ and try to get it from there... Admittedly it sounds like the timing required would be a little too tight for plebs like us to use consistently.

SHADDJ (what I'm calling it anyway) Dair would be effective, but Nair was definitely the first thing that came to mind because that's a 7 frame window between the AD and the aerial compared to 13-15 frames on Dair.

Speaking of Dair, have you ever considered that it's faster to land with it instead of getting the AC? That's 24 frames endlag compared to 31. And another thing I heard about was that you can't tech a groundbounce while knocked down. Combined that probably means that it may be more effective to Dair > Dair > Usmash then to Dair > Uair > Usmash.

Oh yeah, two things I think I haven't talked about yet. I believe the flag for the Arms to reflect or deflect something is dependent on wether or not the projectile deflects on a perfect shield. If it deflects on one, it'll deflect on the other.

The other thing is that I found an easy way to Dair the ledge from the ground. Jump > buffered jump > Dair. Very useful against Cloud.
 

alexthepony

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Well I couldn't find anything realated to dair's hitboxes in this thread but in the social we did talk about it





Did this help?
so I am confused after reading this about the dair properties. which 2 hit on frame 10 and where are they in the u. also which one hits on frame 11, and which one hits on 12, and where are they on the u?
I really badly want to know the answer to this, so anyone please.
 

ReRaze

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so I am confused after reading this about the dair properties. which 2 hit on frame 10 and where are they in the u. also which one hits on frame 11, and which one hits on 12, and where are they on the u?
I really badly want to know the answer to this, so anyone please.
That's probably self explanatory since dair starts from the back....

I'm probably going to look at it in a moment here but you could delay the DJ and try to get it from there... Admittedly it sounds like the timing required would be a little too tight for plebs like us to use consistently.

SHADDJ (what I'm calling it anyway) Dair would be effective, but Nair was definitely the first thing that came to mind because that's a 7 frame window between the AD and the aerial compared to 13-15 frames on Dair.

Speaking of Dair, have you ever considered that it's faster to land with it instead of getting the AC? That's 24 frames endlag compared to 31. And another thing I heard about was that you can't tech a groundbounce while knocked down. Combined that probably means that it may be more effective to Dair > Dair > Usmash then to Dair > Uair > Usmash.

Oh yeah, two things I think I haven't talked about yet. I believe the flag for the Arms to reflect or deflect something is dependent on wether or not the projectile deflects on a perfect shield. If it deflects on one, it'll deflect on the other.

The other thing is that I found an easy way to Dair the ledge from the ground. Jump > buffered jump > Dair. Very useful against Cloud.
I don't think Dair > Dair > Usmash will work as well as the uair latter because, say around 100%....If you full hop dair your opponent they will groundbounce leaving them vulnerable in the air another dair spike will launch them into the ground but it gives them the opportunity to tech. Unless im misunderstanding a knocked down state would mean they would have to be on the ground so since they are in the air they have another oppurtunity to tech anyway if you wait for them to reach the ground.

That's actually really interesting i never realised that about the arms reflecting properties. but how does that apply to say, Robin's projectiles? Like arcfire or thoron, they can't be perfect shielded in a sense but can they be reflected? I remember reflecting elthunder with the arm once, it had a horizontal trajectory but it passed right through robin :/
 

LancerStaff

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I don't think Dair > Dair > Usmash will work as well as the uair latter because, say around 100%....If you full hop dair your opponent they will groundbounce leaving them vulnerable in the air another dair spike will launch them into the ground but it gives them the opportunity to tech. Unless im misunderstanding a knocked down state would mean they would have to be on the ground so since they are in the air they have another oppurtunity to tech anyway if you wait for them to reach the ground.

That's actually really interesting i never realised that about the arms reflecting properties. but how does that apply to say, Robin's projectiles? Like arcfire or thoron, they can't be perfect shielded in a sense but can they be reflected? I remember reflecting elthunder with the arm once, it had a horizontal trajectory but it passed right through robin :/
WAIT DUR I said the wrong thing about dairing the ledge. Run off and jump back while dairing. If you time it right you can AC it, and probably land with it properly too if you're so inclined.

I was thinking if we daired them from a normal position and then they landed after a missed tech a landing Dair would be optimal. At higher percents when they bounce more it's definitely better to Uair though.

Well, for the more gimmicky projectiles we kinda just have to figure it out ourselves. Obviously you're not perfect shielding the orb on Arcfire in a normal situation, and Thoron's got piercing properties.
 

ReRaze

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WAIT DUR I said the wrong thing about dairing the ledge. Run off and jump back while dairing. If you time it right you can AC it, and probably land with it properly too if you're so inclined.

I was thinking if we daired them from a normal position and then they landed after a missed tech a landing Dair would be optimal. At higher percents when they bounce more it's definitely better to Uair though.

Well, for the more gimmicky projectiles we kinda just have to figure it out ourselves. Obviously you're not perfect shielding the orb on Arcfire in a normal situation, and Thoron's got piercing properties.
Haha yeah dj dair didnt sound right to hit people on the ledge.

Also true, you're right, at the percent where the bounce is that low uair probably wouldnt even reach so dair is optimal.

Let's talk about the arm's potential to break shields shall we, in my last 10 matchs i've managed to break about 5 shields. People will most likely shield the arm's because they catch spot dodges and rolls. You can condition people to shield by spamming say fsmash or dsmash at mid percents where people can't punish you too hard then break their shield with a side b potentially earning you a really early stock. How much shield damage do the arms do and how much more does Dark Pit's do compared to Pit?
 

Dusk Pit

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Haha yeah dj dair didnt sound right to hit people on the ledge.

Also true, you're right, at the percent where the bounce is that low uair probably wouldnt even reach so dair is optimal.

Let's talk about the arm's potential to break shields shall we, in my last 10 matchs i've managed to break about 5 shields. People will most likely shield the arm's because they catch spot dodges and rolls. You can condition people to shield by spamming say fsmash or dsmash at mid percents where people can't punish you too hard then break their shield with a side b potentially earning you a really early stock. How much shield damage do the arms do and how much more does Dark Pit's do compared to Pit?
Wouldn't it be nice if arms could damage shield like, say puff's side b?
We need raw numbers about their shield damage but I don't think electroshock does notably more, eventhough in theory 1% should damage shield a little bit more.
 
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ReRaze

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Wouldn't it be nice if arms could damage shield like, say puff's side b?
We need raw numbers about their shield damage but I don't think electroshock does notably more, eventhough in theory 1% should damage shield a little bit more.
Arm's actually do more than enough tbh, I've broken 2/3rds of some character's shields with a fresh side b. If they did any more shield damage it would be kinda braindead.
 

Dusk Pit

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I did a little bit of testing on training mode in 1/4 speed. I used side b and immediately pressed shield and released it after shieldstun and repeated the process when side b was ready to use again. Pit couldn't break shield with 2 consecutive side b but Dark Pit could. It seems there is quite a bit difference after all but I'm not sure how notable it is in real battle.
 

GP2

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Hey guys I've been trying to master the footstool combo in xacer's video. I've been able to do it pretty consistently as long as the opponent does not di. However once the opponent di's the footstool I don't know what to do. Any tips?
 

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Both Arms do 10 shield damage on top of however much they'll do in that situation, so grounded or in the air and freshness. Electroshock is only slightly more powerful then Upperdash but since it goes over a threshold of sorts it's much easier to break shields with it. Shield HP is something weird like 42.987... 11.5 x2 + 10 x2 is 43. Kinda helped out with the discovery that shields were at this bizarre number because of this move, so I should know lol.

But anyway, something I've been meaning to talk about... Dthrow > double jump > Uair is actually a kill combo on fast fallers (around 100% I think). This is in training though, so no staleness or rage, and it's pretty difficult to pull off in the first place. Obviously we'll want to stale Dthrow and that's not too hard, but Uair is also going to be pretty stale and I don't think we can give up the move for a kill setup (since you could DI the Dthrow and probably even the Uair so it kills later) with what appears to be a tiiiny window. In training against Fox it's like 2% either direction... Sheik was similar.
 

Dusk Pit

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So, about aerial electroshock once again, eventhough the patch notes say that it got KBG reduction from 60 to 58 and an angle change, how is it possible that it kills 15% earlier than before? I mean the angle helps a little but shouldn't the KBG reduction compensate that? It still kills a lot earlier than before so what am I missing here? I doubt that lowering the angle 7 degrees makes people die that much earlier and even with KBG reduction!!!!

Maybe there is an error on the notes and it was actually a KBG increase, who knows. They got it wrong in 1.1.0 when the patch notes stated that Dpit's arrow damage was changed from 3.3% to 3.7% and no mention about speed increase (I think some people still don't know about it) and nobody bothered to correct those.
 

GP2

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
110
So, about aerial electroshock once again, eventhough the patch notes say that it got KBG reduction from 60 to 58 and an angle change, how is it possible that it kills 15% earlier than before? I mean the angle helps a little but shouldn't the KBG reduction compensate that? It still kills a lot earlier than before so what am I missing here? I doubt that lowering the angle 7 degrees makes people die that much earlier and even with KBG reduction!!!!

Maybe there is an error on the notes and it was actually a KBG increase, who knows. They got it wrong in 1.1.0 when the patch notes stated that Dpit's arrow damage was changed from 3.3% to 3.7% and no mention about speed increase (I think some people still don't know about it) and nobody bothered to correct those.
The KBG was only reduced in the air. On ground KBG was increased from 60 to 67. That along with the angle change is what gives it the extra kill power on the ground. The decrease in air kbg was most likely to prevent side b from being abused offstage to get super early kills because the angle still changes. It probably kills at about the same percent if you did an aerial side b on stage
 

Dusk Pit

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 5, 2015
Messages
156
Location
USA
The KBG was only reduced in the air. On ground KBG was increased from 60 to 67. That along with the angle change is what gives it the extra kill power on the ground. The decrease in air kbg was most likely to prevent side b from being abused offstage to get super early kills because the angle still changes. It probably kills at about the same percent if you did an aerial side b on stage
I was only talking about the aerial version which kills 15% earlier.
 

LancerStaff

Smash Hero
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Jan 28, 2014
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So, about aerial electroshock once again, eventhough the patch notes say that it got KBG reduction from 60 to 58 and an angle change, how is it possible that it kills 15% earlier than before? I mean the angle helps a little but shouldn't the KBG reduction compensate that? It still kills a lot earlier than before so what am I missing here? I doubt that lowering the angle 7 degrees makes people die that much earlier and even with KBG reduction!!!!

Maybe there is an error on the notes and it was actually a KBG increase, who knows. They got it wrong in 1.1.0 when the patch notes stated that Dpit's arrow damage was changed from 3.3% to 3.7% and no mention about speed increase (I think some people still don't know about it) and nobody bothered to correct those.
Two points growth ain't a lot... On a typical Smash attack adding one means it kills like 7% faster. The angle change is huge because before it aimed up into a corner. Now it's aimed straight at the blastzone. Of course it should kill much later in a bad position since it no longer really launches off the top, but I don't think it's relevant.

The arrow speed buff... Wasn't that proven to not actually be a thing?
 
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