Social Two Sides of the Same Aegis: The Pyra & Mythra Social thread

[GolisoPower]

There exists people who believe third-party characters are the only ones worth having as DLC.

There're people that honestly forget that Smash started as Nintendo All-Stars, and honestly, I don't want Nintendo to forget the series' beginnings. Here's a post I made in the Rex thread covering this:

Honestly, Smash is BOTH a celebration of Nintendo All-Stars AND of Gaming History. Piranha Plant, Byleth, Min Min, Pyra and Mythra are basically reminders of how Smash even started: all first-parties. Yeah, 1/5 of the roster is all third-party right now, but it's best to keep in mind that Nintendo still has a metric ton of characters themselves to pull from, and they can't always pull from other companies to add to the roster. Yeah, people including myself want the likes of Doom Slayer or Reimu or [INSERT MOST WANTED 3RD PARTY HERE] in the game, but ultimately it's all what Nintendo wants to do with it, and they wanted to add the mentioned first parties for some of the DLC. We can request and want characters, and that has paid off in the past with Ridley, K. Rool and Banjo. But Nintendo can't always abide by our requests. They're gonna add who they feel is worth adding to the roster, and if they added them because we've been requesting it, boom, both parties are happy. At the end of the day, it's best that we never forget Smash's roots and how it started in the first place.

 

[okamifire]

There exists people who believe third-party characters are the only ones worth having as DLC.

While I do of course appreciate bringing entirely different companies and 3rd party worlds into Smash, to me at least, who has grown up playing Nintendo consoles all my life (in my early 30s now), Smash is first and foremost a Nintendo game. The line is obviously more blurred in Ultimate when there are I think 16 (maybe miscounting) third party characters, but half of those have ties to Nintendo. Not all. Banjo & Kazooie in my heart of hearts will always be close to a first party (though I think even in Rare N64 days that'd be 2nd party).

I'm not sure I'd want Smash to have never done 3rd party at all since I think Sonic, PacMan, and Megaman/Ryu are pretty much mascots of their companies, but it sets some pretty wild expectations when you get some of the other 3rd party characters we've had. I'm not sure there's a right way to approach it, and I think they're doing a great job overall (I'm loving all the DLC, mostly because I don't have expectations and just like that they're adding content), but they've definitely set up some people to think or expect 3rd party when really Nintendo should have a fair deal of their own characters in the DLC. It is a Nintendo console we're playing it on, afterall, and there are some really great Nintendo IPs that people love or that people might love with a bit of exposure.

 

[MattX20]

Was the Pyra / Mythra reveal really that disliked in the US? Most of the reaction videos I've watched are positive or on the positive side of neutral. I've never played any of the series (JRPG fan though), and I think they look hype as hell. Once I finish a couple of the games I'm playing I plan on playing Xenoblade Chronicles 1 and 2. Other than the YouTubers that clearly only want one or two characters from specific violent video games (not that there's anything wrong with wanting them), Pyra and Mythra seem like pretty logical and welcomed picks. Even my fiancee who doesn't really play games outside of Harvest Moon and Animal Crossing thought they looked really cool. shrug

Most of the people who bashed the reveal were just anti-sword characters or the kind of people who tend to post on sites like Resetera

 

[Teeb147]

I think it's a good point that it's not 'supposed' to be 3rd party. Some people have way too big expectations when it was primarily about nintendo characters. It's a bonus that we got to have so many 3rd parties. Xenoblade chronicles 2 can sure deserve a rep, and I'm super glad they went with what they did :D

I will say that Kirby deserves another rep, and warioware deserves one too, and I think it's really unfortunate that they didn't go for those.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It's a bonus that we got to have so many 3rd parties.

This is a mentality that some people have forgotten to have and thus it leads to their own self-inflicted disappointment.

 

[Starlight Liger]

Let's be real here, Sakurai wanted a Xenoblade Chronicles 2 character for the game but the timing was the issue for the base roster of Super Smash Bros Ultimate.

Their inclusion is more of an inevitability than any other character aside from the ARMS representative who had the same timing issue.

 

[Arthur97]

I would be perfectly fine if the last two went to Kirby and Zelda really.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Was the Pyra / Mythra reveal really that disliked in the US? Most of the reaction videos I've watched are positive or on the positive side of neutral. I've never played any of the series (JRPG fan though), and I think they look hype as hell. Once I finish a couple of the games I'm playing I plan on playing Xenoblade Chronicles 1 and 2. Other than the YouTubers that clearly only want one or two characters from specific violent video games (not that there's anything wrong with wanting them), Pyra and Mythra seem like pretty logical and welcomed picks. Even my fiancee who doesn't really play games outside of Harvest Moon and Animal Crossing thought they looked really cool. shrug

Well, there are those who feel that the DLC slots should be for 3rd party characters only. However, copyright can be one heck of a road block when it comes to 3rd party characters; the Final Fantasy series is one notable example.

Characters made by 2nd party developers, however, are easier to work with, as the developers in question work for you. And since Intelligent Systems and Monolith Soft both work for Nintendo, it probably shouldn't be too surprising that we'd get more Fire Emblem (Byleth) and Xenoblade (Pyra & Mythra) representation at some point.

 

[Arthur97]

Wasn't Sephiroth supposedly actually pretty cheap being part of the reason they added him? Not always the case I know, but it seems they suddenly decided to cooperate unlike with Cloud.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Wasn't Sephiroth supposedly actually pretty cheap being part of the reason they added him? Not always the case I know, but it seems they suddenly decided to cooperate unlike with Cloud.

That's probably the weird part of the story. When Cloud was revealed for Smash 3DS / Wii U, we only got two original BGM tracks, along with a stage. And all the Final Fantasy VII trophies focused on Cloud himself.

 

[Arthur97]

However, when it comes to licensing in general, do note that a lot of the third parties came as DLC, potentially to both help sell it and cover costs. Without the Everyone is Here bit, it may be uncertain how many are renewed for the next title.

 

[okamifire]

Oh, not sure if you guys saw this or if it was posted before, but I stumbled upon this Pyra / Mythra reaction video with the actual voice actress Skye Bennett and her boyfriend watch the Direct. One of my favorites because he's like "You're a Smash character!", haha.

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[meleebrawler]

Anyone stop to think about how light and fire is an unusually common elemental pairing used by magical Nintendo females?

 

[AnEasterEgg]

Well, they are essentially to magical elements what swords are to melee weapons.

 

[EODM07]

I've only seen one overwhelmingly negative reaction to Pyra and Mythra being in Smash, and that was pretty much videogamedunkey's.

I do know that he is pretty vocal on his distaste towards Xenoblade 2, mostly JRPGs and anime as a whole. But hey, each to their own. I am still looking forward to giving them a shot when they drop next month. Means I can finally get the game out of my shelf and play it again after not touching it for almost over a year and only focusing on Blazblue Cross Tag Battle (Still wish they continued supporting the game instead of just dropping it after 2.0, oof.)

And of course, I bring more art to share and something else... Like say custom YGO cards? Since I have been making some again (More like asked by a friend because they like Idolm@ster and I showed them some custom cards I made involving that series, so I made some more. Guess I can share all 23 here.)

Spoiler: More Xenoblade 2 Art

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Spoiler: Custom Yu-Gi-Oh! cards feat. Idolm@ster

 

[AnEasterEgg]

There's definitely plenty of salt and a lot of "meh" reactions, you don't have to look far for them. Probably still a lot less than Byleth got though, between not being the last fighter of the pass and not being Fire Emblem.

 

[Dinoman96]

I think the issue with the third or first party thing is that K. Rool and Ridley really were the last two mega requested Nintendo characters in the core Smash community. Sure there's plenty of other first party characters that are also popular requests like Dixie, Bandana Dee, Isaac, Waluigi, etc but outside of maybe Waluigi none of them really feel like the community's front runners in the same way K. Ridley did and are more niche, so there's not as much excitement over them, or interest on Nintendo's part. So naturally, especially after how much Cloud changed the game, there's been a bigger interest in prominent non-Nintendo characters, like Crash and Master Chief and Sora and Dante and etc etc

Basically I think by putting in some of the last super major character requests from Nintendo in the base game and also putting in wacky third parties like Cloud, Sephiroth, Steve, etc Nintendo really has kinda devalued excitement and interest in their own characters, and it doesn't really help when they select stuff like Corrin or Byleth instead of Isaac or Dixie, thus further diminishing interest in first party characters.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think the issue with the third or first party thing is that K. Rool and Ridley really were the last two mega requested Nintendo characters in the core Smash community. Sure there's plenty of other first party characters that are also popular requests like Dixie, Bandana Dee, Isaac, Waluigi, etc but outside of maybe Waluigi none of them really feel like the community's front runners in the same way K. Ridley did and are more niche, so there's not as much excitement over them, or interest on Nintendo's part. So naturally, especially after how much Cloud changed the game, there's been a bigger interest in prominent non-Nintendo characters, like Crash and Master Chief and Sora and Dante and etc etc

Basically I think by putting in some of the last super major character requests from Nintendo in the base game and also putting in wacky third parties like Cloud, Sephiroth, Steve, etc Nintendo really has kinda devaluted excitement and interest in their own characters, and it doesn't really help when they select stuff like Corrin or Byleth instead of Isaac or Dixie, thus further diminishing interest in first party characters.

The issue is that people are just simply spoiled. There is nothing else to it.

 

[I.D.]

Okay, not to brag too much, but...

...who says nobody wanted Xenoblade?

Edit: Should also remind everyone that on Game Awards day #レックス (Rex) was trending on twitter the whole day

 

[Staarih]

It's really refreshing to see such good reception towards Pyra/Mythra (aside from the never-ending arguments about the designs) and Xenoblade Chronicles in general. If I were to pick another series besides Fire Emblem who really benefited from Smash, Xenoblade would definitely be it. It's grown so much from the Wii game and will keep on growing now.

 

[Arthur97]

However, the problem may come to be that if they do slip back into a more Nintendo oriented approach, the fanbase has seemingly already turned anti-Nintendo. Though part of it may not be helped by people who play who don't even play much Nintendo outside of Smash. Or at least, the Western fans. Japan seems ecstatic with the girls. That may also be a part of it, the English speaking fans seem a bit more focused on more Xbox and Playstation brands.

But, yes, Xenoblade really does seem to be Nintendo's answer to Final Fantasy in a way (oh the irony), and hopefully this shows that they are committed to the brand. Though, I really am more attached to 2 than I am 1 or X. If they continue the trend of new casts, I guess I'll just have to see how they stack up.

 

[Irving]

Congrats to everyone who wanted them in and this gives me an excuse to get my switch fixed as xenoblade chronicles 2 and ultimate where the only 2 games I played m

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think the issue with the third or first party thing is that K. Rool and Ridley really were the last two mega requested Nintendo characters in the core Smash community.

But let's say Dixie got in over K. Rool. Would that mean she is the last major request, and K. Rool was the biggest literal who of all time? What about if Krystal got in over Wolf, or a Rhythm Heaven character got in before Little Mac? Would Wolf and Mac be thrown into the "there are no more good Nintendo characters" pile?

 

[Teeb147]

Krystal has been a wanted character. Wolf.. more only after he showed up in brawl. (people wanting the veterans)
K. Rool had a pretty big following, more than Dixie, but obviously both are wanted.

Bandana Dee did quite high on the polls, especially in japan, so that's another that I'd consider wanted.
People also wanted Ashley. After she was deconfirmed though the fans didn't really talk much about it.
And obviously Isaac was a big one too, near the top of many polls.


And that's just the more popular. There's plenty of other good nintendo characters, but I think those count as good ones.
I dunno if it's people are spoiled, but the expectations definitely lept kinda far in how much they want 3rd parties.

In my case SE is a company I have lots of wants from, and unfortunately I'm pretty sure the quota's filled there XD

 

[Guynamednelson]

I dunno if it's people are spoiled

It kind of is. Remember, FP1 gave us four third-parties in a row (one whose fans wish wasn't, but still) and the challenger pack structure seems more fitting for series fully unrepresented in Smash. Key word being SEEMS.

 

[KillerCage]

Was the Pyra / Mythra reveal really that disliked in the US? Most of the reaction videos I've watched are positive or on the positive side of neutral. I've never played any of the series (JRPG fan though), and I think they look hype as hell. Once I finish a couple of the games I'm playing I plan on playing Xenoblade Chronicles 1 and 2. Other than the YouTubers that clearly only want one or two characters from specific violent video games (not that there's anything wrong with wanting them), Pyra and Mythra seem like pretty logical and welcomed picks. Even my fiancee who doesn't really play games outside of Harvest Moon and Animal Crossing thought they looked really cool. shrug

From what I've seen, Pyra and Mythra's reception has ranged mostly from mixed to pretty much positive.
Any true negative reaction to Pyra and Mythra is few and far in between.
The most toxic I saw was Twitter, but then again it is Twitter.

 

[MattX20]

From what I've seen, Pyra and Mythra's reception has ranged mostly from mixed to pretty much positive.
Any true negative reaction to Pyra and Mythra is few and far in between.
The most toxic I saw was Twitter, but then again it is Twitter.

Most of the negative reactions towards Pyra and Mythra came from Twitter and Resetera, the latter of which also complained about MinMin

 

[Nartic]

Overall I think Pyra / Mythra got a decent reception.
As newcomer speculation overheats, what I'm worried about is the reaction to the character who will be the last fighter in FP2.

 

[Arthur97]

So, what do you think the odds are they end up too faithful to the game and Pyra doesn't see much use?

 

[meleebrawler]

So, what do you think the odds are they end up too faithful to the game and Pyra doesn't see much use?

Everyone said that about Min-Min's Megawatt vs. Ram-Ram. If nothing else she will be played just for having different specials, this isn't an RPG where numbers are all that matters.

 

[Teeb147]

So, what do you think the odds are they end up too faithful to the game and Pyra doesn't see much use?

Besides Casual, at the very least, Pyra will be good to get kos. But I think she'll be pretty good overall though.

And my feelings is that Mythra along with Pyra could be top tier XD

 

[Arthur97]

As my preferred of the two, hopefully she won't be relegated to too limited use (though, yeah, casually she'll probably see a lot of use).

Spoiler: Spoilers for Chapter 6

I get that story wise she's supposed to be weaker, but it would have been nice if she got an updated/hidden affinity tree after she sort of surpassed her limitations by controlling Siren.

 

[Guynamednelson]

So, what do you think the odds are they end up too faithful to the game and Pyra doesn't see much use?

Weaker-but-faster characters are still dominant, but not as overwhelmingly dominant as, say, Melee Fox or Brawl Meta Knight.

 

[Teeb147]

She's definitely not weaker in smash anyway But fast characters tend to be better competitively, so Mythra automatically gets a boost because of that.
I love Pyra so I'm planning to try to use her as much if not more than Mythra. It's just I like fast characters too XD I'm curious how it'll go.

 

[Arthur97]

I may prefer heavy hitters, so it works for me at least.

Also, today's pick seems to sorta recreate the camp scene.

 

[Teeb147]

We also don't know yet if Pyra is heavy or not. If she can survive longer that's a really good thing too

 

[zferolie]

i really feel that based on their design and how their noirmals don't change much between versions other then properties, that they will best if you use both of them equally and not just focus on one or the other, unlike Zelda/shiek in the past

 

[Teeb147]

i really feel that based on their design and how their noirmals don't change much between versions other then properties, that they will best if you use both of them equally and not just focus on one or the other, unlike Zelda/shiek in the past

The main thing that could make using them both good is that invincibility when you transform. If it's fast to counter attack that way, someone could time it well and change a lot.
If not, it could be better to stick with mythra until it's time to ko. (or to survive if pyra is heavier)

 

[Arthur97]

Not sure if they'll change weight, but we'll have to wait and see. For some reason I kinda expect weight to be the same. Though, just looking at their specials, it seems to be Mythra will have the better recovery. Especially if her airs mobility is also better. Though as quick as the change seems to be, should be doable mid recovery. Wonder if Pyra can meteor with hers.

Though, in terms of specials, Blazing End could be an interesting move. Maybe it'll give Pyra another edge.

 

[zferolie]

yeah not sure on weight changing but its possible? Otherwise Pyra also seems to have some decent edge guarding tolls with her side B, and a good AoE around her with her neautral B