TSA and CCX Present - NJ's SMASHACRE Monthly Tournaments - Nov 3rd! Final Farewell :(

[pockyD]

well my main point is when you only win one set out of 4 in your pool, you have no right to complain about where you are put in your bracket

edit: also if it's a really big deal i'm pretty sure you can manually flip pairings (which the positions of two #4 seeds), but that can get to be a big hassle for the director, so it's a little unfair to demand that

at the end of the day: if everyone in your crew is amazing and gets #1 seeds, they will be max separated. solve your own problem

 

[Magus420]

Yes, but there are 8-way ties between people who got 1st in their pools, 3rd in pools, and 4th in pools. LK could have been swapped with anyone else who also got 1st in their pool to spread out the bracket better while still maintaining the same accuracy from the performance in pools.

So long as you can manually change them you can just have a signup list of groups who are together anddo a quick run down on each group to make sure they're reasonably spread out and if it's too crowded at one part switch someone around of an equal seed (preferably not in a group themself).

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

It might have been easier that way, but I didn't want the players who played in the same pool to play so early either. Since I didn't seed the bracket manually from the beginning, it would have been a hassle and the tournament would have taken longer.

While I do feel sorry for those players, I did say before pools started that I couldn't guarantee crew separation in the bracket. THP's is an extreme case, but there's no point in arguing it now.

 

[pockyD]

pools are for fun, getting to play new people, etc.

brackets are for producing an accurate set of results... of course they aren't perfect, but they'll be even less perfect if you arbitrarily meddle with them

 

[Magus420]

It would only be even less perfect if you swap unequal seeds. The program already arbitrarily ranks 8 rank 1 seeds as 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and puts them into those places on the bracket. 'Meddling' by swapping any from that group isn't any different.

 

[Sneak8288]

but there are those complainers who say they got purposely bracket ****ed by tsa wen its done manually wen they play someone better than them first round in the brackets

 

[Teczer0]

at that point itll depend on wat seed u got

4th seed is gonna get a 1st seed and so on and so forth i dont think you can complain about anything when u get the last seed .. ure going to fight someone better most likely and it wouldnt matter which one of the 1st seeds u fight

 

[pockyD]

It would only be even less perfect if you swap unequal seeds. The program already arbitrarily ranks 8 rank 1 seeds as 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and puts them into those places on the bracket. 'Meddling' by swapping any from that group isn't any different.

to me the randomness is part of the fairness

not all 1 seeds are created equal; it would be very unfair if instead of playing generic good player X who happened to slip in and get a 1 seed while going 3-2 in his pool, you got swapped out manually and now have to face mew2king. i think it's important that everyone has an equal chance of having to fight everyone that has the matching opposite seed

 

[Magus420]

For the whiners you just do it objectively by running down the list of equal seeds and swap with the first that meets the criteria, which could be not in a group or someone if swapped doesn't group them with the group that they are with. For example, if looking for a switch for LK...

1: Spamerer
1: Ky
1: Sol
1: Lord Knight
1: Treble
1: Bass
1: Tec0
1: M2K

Spamerer wouldn't work, but Ky would since Ky works in LK's place and vice versa. LK and Ky would then be switched.

I'm only saying this because I have done it before and didn't take more than like 5 mins to do manually with a group list at hand. You can even do this for separating players who were in the same pool to keep them from playing too soon in addition to spacing out crew members afterwards too. I don't know how user-friendly the program is though, and if you can move them manually after it does the initial seeding into the bracket.

 

[teh_spamerer]

Only 4 entered (3 not counting Kashif :embarrass), and in one little 1/8 section of the bracket it was Inui, LK, and Atomsk + Bass

XDD, I love you too Magus. Part of the reason that might have happened though was because I asked WoZ to put me as being in no crew for singles.

EDIT: And I only played Lord Knight and that was in R3 winners. Not THAT bad.

 

[Inui]

Awesome, Kashif!

 

[Scar]

It might have been easier that way, but I didn't want the players who played in the same pool to play so early either. Since I didn't seed the bracket manually from the beginning, it would have been a hassle and the tournament would have taken longer.

While I do feel sorry for those players, I did say before pools started that I couldn't guarantee crew separation in the bracket. THP's is an extreme case, but there's no point in arguing it now.

Magus is completely correct, it would have been simple to do it, but the tourney took CRAZY long the way we did it, so I think that in the clutch WoZ made the right decision.

Pocky brings up a good point, and randomly generated brackets are honestly the only fair way to do things, because yes, someone is going to get screwed and have to play M2K first round. Brackets are very annoying, and it is basically impossible to have one that pleases everyone.

Which is why I agree with tec0 in that having 4 guaranteed serious sets with people not in your crew via pools is pretty awesome. Just because LK got first, Inui got 2nd and Trevor got 4th doesn't mean you can blame the bracket for screwing him.

You just have to blame the entire concept of mathematics.

 

[Bailey]

If this was my tournament I would have the word fixed and rigged thrown in every sentence above me no doubt there. That is why I let the manager deal with the computer now so if you get screwed at one of my tournaments DON'T YELL AT ME! Yell at the manager

 

[Teczer0]

the brackets were done randomly using any random combinations of a 1st seed fighting the 4th seed and the 2nd seed fighting the 3rd seed (at least i think so)

Woz cant technically "screw you over" only the randomly generated brackets can jerk u over and EVERYONE will complain if u fight m2k but thats a reason NOT to get the last seed because if ure not the last seed and m2k is the first seed u completely eliminate the possibility of having him in your first round

so in a way the players themselves help toward the bracket

so because i know i had 1st seed in my pool i knew i wouldnt have to fight a certain 7 other players and im in the range of fighting a player RESTRICTED by the 4th seeded players of course it only applies to the first round i dunno how everything else is done

I personally enjoyed the pools and like scar said the least u get out of watever u payed is at least 4 fights (or 5) in a pool with people u dont fight often the outcomes of the pools should be an incentive to do well in your pools because u know if u place 1st in your pool you have a very high chance making it out of your first round (totally not my case as i nearly got wrecked >_>)

personally i think magus has a point but watever its done hopefully though it can contribute to the next tourney

 

[Bailey]

When I do tournaments I can't knock people outta pools cause I feel bad for the people who go and lose the first two rounds. I like it so they can play all pool matches and then play two then leave as I hold their cash.

 

[Atomsk_92]

What happened to me doesn't really matter anymore lets just get a whole bunch of posts building up to the next smashacre in here

 

[JFox]

I think TSA has to make a decision- principally do they feel that crew seeding is fair/non-biased, or is the only way to gaurentee non-biased, fair tourneys, is to do random seeding after pools. Any middle ground where they partially seed by crews isn't an acceptable way of running a tournament. So you can't just make sure you are only seeding for one crew and not others, and than saying "well we can't perfectly seed the brackets to please everyone"

I think that Magus brings of valid points that no one can argue. It certainly was possible to switch a couple people to seed for crews. And I think if more players from TSA had gotten screwed, people would be doing something about it.

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

I didn't really have time to look at the brackets when I started singles. I was too busy trying to hurry the event along, and it wasn't until Inui brought it up that I noticed their matches going into the second round of winners and into losers. This being nearly 6/8th into the first round already.

Really, by then, there was nothing I could have done about it.

I'm certainly not biased towards my own crew members, JFox. There are numerous times in the past when TSA members had to fight in the first or second round, so I really hope you're not accusing me of that.

 

[Bailey]

Atomsk did get a lot better since I last played him too. I expected him to get a decent placing yet. Bracket Fed.

 

[slikvik]

Atomsk did get a lot better since I last played him too. I expected him to get a decent placing yet. Bracket Fed.

Well he did get 4th seed. He would have had to fight a 1st seed regardless. I dont see how anyone can complain that seeding by pools is unfair or rigged somehow

 

[Velocity]

there is another way to seed outa pools and that would be to have a percentage of the players wins divided by the total about of matches thus giving you a number like m2k would have like a number like 1.00 since he prolly wouldnt lose its best if u did 2 matches this way too and then a 1.00 would play like a 0.025 or something like that

 

[JFox]

WoZ, typically when I say things they are coming from a very theoretical standpoint. When I suggest that you by not defining a tournament as crew seeded or not, that this leaves room for biased and unfair decisions to be made. (Making sure that your own crew is well seeded, and not really carefully caring to do the same for others)

Now I was not at this tourney so I can't really know how things went. So all I am saying is that you should decide if you are going to crew seed or not, so that no ambiguity present. This way there is not room for these accusations.

The last thing I said "if TSA had gotten screwed, people would be doing something about it" is that TSA is well recognized and has a lot of influence on what the community ends up doing with tournaments. The fact that it was Atomsk, and not someone like Sensei, means that people can easily ignore this because of the skill gap. And people in his crew can't do much to change things. But if it were someone like Copycat, he could have something like this fixed because he is in a crew that will make sure something like this isn't repeated. Unfortunately, people don't realize how many times Atomsk has gotten ***** by the brackets, but nothing is ever done because its not someone in TSA getting screwed.

 

[max32090]

jfox is always so official. chuch

 

[Magus420]

It doesn't matter what crew they were from. Could very well have been Sensei and some other TSA members all grouped really close together because WoZ wasn't even made aware of it until the first round was well underway, plus he didn't promise crew seeding in the singles bracket and only for the singles pools anyway. Bad luck happens. I just wanted to make a constructive suggestion that would hopefully prevent it from happening in the future while keeping it fair and unbiased in the process of adjusting and evening out the bracket, while also putting little extra strain on running it. =D

 

[teh_spamerer]

WoZ, typically when I say things they are coming from a very theoretical standpoint. When I suggest that you by not defining a tournament as crew seeded or not, that this leaves room for biased and unfair decisions to be made. (Making sure that your own crew is well seeded, and not really carefully caring to do the same for others)

Now I was not at this tourney so I can't really know how things went. So all I am saying is that you should decide if you are going to crew seed or not, so that no ambiguity present. This way there is not room for these accusations.

The last thing I said "if TSA had gotten screwed, people would be doing something about it" is that TSA is well recognized and has a lot of influence on what the community ends up doing with tournaments. The fact that it was Atomsk, and not someone like Sensei, means that people can easily ignore this because of the skill gap. And people in his crew can't do much to change things. But if it were someone like Copycat, he could have something like this fixed because he is in a crew that will make sure something like this isn't repeated. Unfortunately, people don't realize how many times Atomsk has gotten ***** by the brackets, but nothing is ever done because its not someone in TSA getting screwed.

Mud and Muz have fought in R1 of Winners when they made the bracket at a TSA biweekly . I got taken out of R3 of winners by LK while doyoung got taken out of R2 by WoZ. Copy lost in R2 of winners and got taken out by Scar immediately in losers.

EDIT: Good **** Magus

 

[slikvik]

NJ places too much emphasis on its crews. Woz already seeded for pools. Why are people expecting to be seeded for the brackets too? seriously, just do brackets then

 

[phish-it]

So much drama over a silly video game... As said before, Pools seeding is determined by your outcome, granted it can still lead to getting screwed in the brackets like much of THP did, but elimination/seeding pools are always going to be safer than a completely random bracket.

 

[Cia]

lolz.. I registered only 2 other people with me as being in the same crew and I got knocked out by both other pretty early in the tournament.. and I couldn't have been more happy for them. sometimes, u just gotta look at it that way. and I'd put my life on the fact that woz did not right a TIA generated bracket.

besides, we should ALL be talking about how amazing my Young Link is ^_^

 

[Teczer0]

lolz.. I registered only 2 other people with me as being in the same crew and I got knocked out by both other pretty early in the tournament.. and I couldn't have been more happy for them. sometimes, u just gotta look at it that way. and I'd put my life on the fact that woz did not right a TIA generated bracket.

besides, we should ALL be talking about how amazing my Young Link is ^_^

i need a faster fox to deal with that little azzclown

 

[Keitaro]

I felt better when someone said 2 pools had top 4 outta 6 coming outta pools. I felt un-better when I noticed it was only my pool

 

[Sneak8288]

jfox ur posts r too long and no one wants to read them and they r all like anti tsa

 

[JFox]

LOL...I love TSA dude. Trust me, I give more credit to WoZ than any other member in this community for what he has done. And I highly respect the majority of TSA members. (Unfortunately you guys are so large I still haven't met all of you)

Was that short enough for everyone?

 

[Inui]

Magus is the best Smasher ever. D:

 

[teh_spamerer]

A few suggestions for next time WoZ

#1 - Place a TSA member in charge of each pool and make sure that they know the rules inside and out. Pools took too long because ppl didn't know the rules.

#2 - Have you talked to(Neal was it?) about having brackets seeded with respect to crews?

#3 - Lower the entry fee for singles down to $10. CCX is also super cramped and leaves much to be desired. Is it better than Marcel's mom's apartment? Yes. I can't honestly say the venue is $5 better than cheezit's biweekly(esp. since cheezit's has the randomly gay owner and it's still cheaper)

 

[Scar]

Everyone who is coming to Smashpocalypse should probably prepare themselves for the most beautiful venue ever.

 

[Inui]

$10 entry fee sounds awesome. Please do it.

 

[pockyD]

why would the store just choose to give up 100 bucks in profits?

 

[Inui]

No. Just drop the pot.

 

[pockyD]

that bumps the store cut of the pot to 60%

lol?

 

[Inui]

Sure, whatever. The pot size means almost nothing to most people. The entry fee matters to everyone, however.