Triforce Ganondorf Mod

[Selpar]

It is hard and risky to do I agree, but it's balanced that way. Teleporting as of itself is a very good recovery for any character. With the hitbox at the end it's harder to edge guard him but is that fair? As it's hard to go off the stage and stop his recovery due to the teleport. It only makes sense to have the grab at the end/beginning so the recovery isn't too good and there is room for punish if the Ganondorf player messes up.

Acting out of teleport is tricker... On one end its awesome but if not done perfectly with some sort of draw back it becomes OP quite easily. I think a happy medium would be to:
- grab at the beginning/end
- able to use A moves out of teleport with BUT can't use specials (or at least just side B to not be able to recover more)
- has enough start up lag before Ganon actually goes into teleport (not for the grab hitbox to come out, that should be very fast) so that the oppenent has room to punish.

In v3.5 it was too good. It was a super easy, super safe gtfo move that also gave the Ganon player to attack after. And it wasn't fun or fair for anyone playing against it...
So like I said it needs a balance otherwise it should stay as it is imho.

I think it would be fair if:
- it only grabbed at the beginning
- no side B out of teleport
- no side B cancel out of down B (I haven't tested if this works in version 4.1 but it totally does in version 3.1 mixed and it's pretty OP)
- 0.2-0.3 seconds start up lag before teleport (not sure exactly how long the start up lag should be but some where in that range would probably be fair) to allow time for players to punish careless use, but still fast enough to be used as a viable recovery move.

 

[Ashingda]

Teleport seems to be a hot topic. Some prefer non-teleport, some are for attacking out of it and others not as for balance. The current up-B is mainly to differentiate from the other teleporters, Zelda deals damage both ways, Mewtwo acts out of it, and Ganondorf will grab both ways. Being helpless if you miss the grabs is for balance, this move is primarily a recovery move and shouldn't be a top choice move at lease these are my reasoning.

It use to be that there are two different teleport distance. A short one and a longer one (the current distance) if you held down B. Should I had left the optional distance?

@ Selpar
Using an "exclude this move" approach is complicated to code. To exclude something you have to create a whole new instance where only the other checks exist because I don't know the codes to ignore or exclude certain actions.

 

[Arkhamael]

I'm really sorry, but I'm still out of a laptop. I've had none to work with since the middle of December and haven't been able to make a video since...

I feel cold...

 

[Selpar]

Teleport seems to be a hot topic. Some prefer non-teleport, some are for attacking out of it and others not as for balance. The current up-B is mainly to differentiate from the other teleporters, Zelda deals damage both ways, Mewtwo acts out of it, and Ganondorf will grab both ways. Being helpless if you miss the grabs is for balance, this move is primarily a recovery move and shouldn't be a top choice move at lease these are my reasoning.

It use to be that there are two different teleport distance. A short one and a longer one (the current distance) if you held down B. Should I had left the optional distance?

@ Selpar
Using an "exclude this move" approach is complicated to code. To exclude something you have to create a whole new instance where only the other checks exist because I don't know the codes to ignore or exclude certain actions.

I think the main problem with the teleport as is right now is that it feels like a less useful version of Ganondorf's normal up B because before if anyone was between the start and end point of the move they would get grabbed, but now the grab only happens at the start or the end and in between is a safe zone. This means that the attack is now significantly harder to land and combo into than it was originally, and it isn't really any stronger. Normally when some aspect of a move gets worse something else has to get better or players feel like it got nerfed.

The problem then becomes what exactly is an improvement. Is teleporting really that much greater of a recovery that it makes up for the decrease in usefulness of the up B?

I have been playing Super Smash Brothers since it came out on the N64 at this point I have no problem predicting where a player is going to come out of a teleport especially if they are trying to recover. So, to me I don't really see much benefit to a teleport over a regular recovery. I do how ever see a huge benefit to any recovery that doesn't put me into a free fall. Honestly I'd prefer a minimal distance teleport with out grabs that I can act out of over a long distance one that makes it hard to use for combos.

As for the difficulty of excluding moves: That is unfortunate, I've never really modded a character in smash bros so I am of course completely unaware of what all limitations the system imposes that you have to work around. It would have been a rather easy fix if you were working with the source code though.

 

[Selpar]

can someone make a video of this?

Here you go:

During the video I went into a free fall instead of teleporting when I tried to up B not sure why, unless float makes you free fall and my 8 year old Wii remote failed to read me pressing up on the D-pad. Pretty disappointing though.

Also no grabs showcased because the shield button is in a stupid location on the Wii remote and I never bothered to learn to use it. They're probably really cool though, so just pretend you saw some awesome grab combo in the video.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Here you go:

During the video I went into a free fall instead of teleporting when I tried to up B not sure why, unless float makes you free fall and my 8 year old Wii remote failed to read me pressing up on the D-pad. Pretty disappointing though.

Also no grabs showcased because the shield button is in a stupid location on the Wii remote and I never bothered to learn to use it. They're probably really cool though, so just pretend you saw some awesome grab combo in the video.

Hey nice video!

I actually just came here to post that I also experienced that glitch where I went into free fall from Up B. It seems to only happen when you are somewhat deeper down while recovering though...

 

[Selpar]

Hey nice video!

I actually just came here to post that I also experienced that glitch where I went into free fall from Up B. It seems to only happen when you are somewhat deeper down while recovering though...

Thanks, seemed like a good time to put the video capture card I got for Christmas to use.

Unfortunately, when you are some what below the platform you are trying to recover to is when you need your up B the most. The no teleport glitch kills pretty much anytime it happens.

 

[Ashingda]

Thanks guys for finding these bugs. I got them fixed, or so I hope.

@ Selpar You know I was also in the process of making a vid. :D


Updated: http://www.mediafire.com/download/zfiq1tdksh08kfd/TriforceGanondorf v4.1b.zip

4.1b Changes:

Jab: Cape Attack (Ground). Improved reflect. Increased speed.
N-Air: Cape Attack (Air). Improved reflect. Increased speed.

U-Tilt: Uppercut. Decreased speed at startup

B(Ground): Sword. Returned run speed to x1.
Up-B: Teleport. Increased collision detection. Fixed auto free fall (hopefully).


Video:

 

[DarkfireKurai]

Is the sheath still in the mod? I noticed it was absent in the videos.

 

[Selpar]

Thanks guys for finding these bugs. I got them fixed, or so I hope.

@ Selpar You know I was also in the process of making a vid. :D


Updated: http://www.mediafire.com/download/zfiq1tdksh08kfd/TriforceGanondorf v4.1b.zip

4.1b Changes:

Jab: Cape Attack (Ground). Improved reflect. Increased speed.
N-Air: Cape Attack (Air). Improved reflect. Increased speed.

U-Tilt: Uppercut. Decreased speed at startup

B(Ground): Sword. Returned run speed to x1.
Up-B: Teleport. Increased collision detection. Fixed auto free fall (hopefully).


Video:

I guess my video was just faster to make due to lack of editing ^.^ (seriously though my video only took like 20-30 minute to make because I didn't edit it at all, most of the time was spent uploading to youtube)

Great job on your video, it is much better than mine. I like how you showcased the changes before going to fight the NPC so no vital changes would go unseen.

I'll update my Ganondorf to the new version and test it some more. Thanks for the update.

 

[Ashingda]

@ DarkfireKurai
For now it's not present, It'll be back.

@ Selpar
Yeah I don't even know how long I took. Is why I haven't been making vids it usually take me 2~3 hours if not more.

 

[TheLazy]

Haven't seen an update for a while...good to see this is still being worked on!

After testing out the newest version (4.1b):

- Jab and Nair - They both do reflect, but is the timing for the reflection the same as default?

- Nair - I cannot seem to L-cancel with this. But the current recovery time as it appears to be in a permanent L-cancel.

- Grab/throw animations - Now that the left hand is used to grab opponents, the animation does not appear to follow correctly when doing a forward throw as it just immediately uses the right hand for this. The other throws are similar, but flow a bit better. Also, when pummelling, the hand used between the holding stance and the actual pummel switch every time.

- Down-B (air) - Is it intentional for the ledge grab box to be delayed until right after the falling animation? Also, is the minimum distance traveled before being able to jump out of it the same as default?

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Hey Ashingda, new Nair and jab work much better than before. They feel great! But their both still somewhat too weak :\ Still want that electricity and "smack" sound on jab though lol

Up B works well except I cannot grab the legs while facing away. In the vanilla PM Up B we can reverse grab the ledge so it kind of throwing me off. I'm sure I can get used to it, but idk if its intentionally out?

 

[Ashingda]

If you find yourself facing away from the ledge, press the directional towards the ledge at the last second and he should do a reverse on the 2nd portal.

 

[drogoth232]

I'm going to take a look at the code and see if I can give any suggestions.

 

[Power Marshall]

Side Special freezes the game. I downloaded the zip and placed the only two files in the ganon folder. I played, and it froze when I attempted to side B. After restarting, I tried again, with the same result.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Side Special freezes the game. I downloaded the zip and placed the only two files in the ganon folder. I played, and it froze when I attempted to side B. After restarting, I tried again, with the same result.

No problem here, it's possible that the download could've messed up, try it again!

 

[_Ganondorf_]

No problem here, it's possible that the download could've messed up, try it again!

Yeah I also got no issues... Download the files again.

 

[Power Marshall]

Well, I did a bunch of testing on my end. I downloaded the files once more, and play tested. I took most of my codes out that may have been interfering, or at least I thought. All gave me the same result: a lovely crash. :/

 

[Ashingda]

That is very odd because side special is mostly unchanged.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Well, I did a bunch of testing on my end. I downloaded the files once more, and play tested. I took most of my codes out that may have been interfering, or at least I thought. All gave me the same result: a lovely crash. :/

I have no idea what to say........

 

[Selpar]

Well, I did a bunch of testing on my end. I downloaded the files once more, and play tested. I took most of my codes out that may have been interfering, or at least I thought. All gave me the same result: a lovely crash. :/

Does Ganondorf's side special crash you game even if you aren't using this mod? I have never experienced a crash using the side B move, and it is pretty much just Ganondorf's normal side B so it is likely a problem with some other mod you have to the game that went unnoticed.

If you'd like to get this mod working I'd recommend following these steps:
Get a clean install of Project M 3.5
Install this mod
Test to see if it is working (if it doesn't work off a clean install I have no idea what is wrong)
Install what ever other mods you want one at a time testing this mod with each addition
If you find which one causes the crash it would be awesome if you made a note of it here, so if anyone else experiences the same problem they have a little more information about what maybe the cause.

 

[Power Marshall]

Wait, does this Ganon PSA only work with PM? I'm gonna check it out now....

Also, Ganon has worked before I put this mod in. So I only assumed something happened when the crash happen, exclusive from the mod.


EDIT: It works in PM. Hmm... So it must be PM exclusive. Or, it requires the Module file.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Wait, does this Ganon PSA only work with PM? I'm gonna check it out now....

Also, Ganon has worked before I put this mod in. So I only assumed something happened when the crash happen, exclusive from the mod.

EDIT: It works in PM. Hmm... So it must be PM exclusive. Or, it requires the Module file.

Yeah it's PM only (and newer versions are for 3.5 only). Thus it being under the custom content in the Project M section lol...

If you play/mod vanilla Brawl it's best to only get mods from the custom content section specific to the Brawl forums.

If a "Module file" helps (I have no idea what that is though...) than you might as well go for it. All I know is as of right now this mod is made for Project M exclusively.

 

[Selpar]

Yeah it's PM only (and newer versions are for 3.5 only). Thus it being under the custom content in the Project M section lol...

If you play/mod vanilla Brawl it's best to only get mods from the custom content section specific to the Brawl forums.

If a "Module file" helps (I have no idea what that is though...) than you might as well go for it. All I know is as of right now this mod is made for Project M exclusively.

I believe that "Module file" in this case is referring to the .rel files that are located in the module folder located in the pf folder. I believe that there is a one such file for every character though only the ones that are edited are found in the folder and the rest are just loaded from the game.

Wait, does this Ganon PSA only work with PM? I'm gonna check it out now....

Also, Ganon has worked before I put this mod in. So I only assumed something happened when the crash happen, exclusive from the mod.

EDIT: It works in PM. Hmm... So it must be PM exclusive. Or, it requires the Module file.

Ganodorf's file is called ft_ganon.rel and is located in the pf/module folder of a clean install of Project M. So his "Module file" was likely edited by the developers of Project M and copying the file over to what ever other version of brawl is in question may be all that is need to make this character work over there as well, because those changes are likely to only difference between the two versions of Ganondorf. I'd love to hear if this works.

 

[Power Marshall]

Well.. it would appear it is indeed PM exclusive.. for now. How does one know if something isn't going to work on regular brawl mods vs. PM? The brawl workshop has since been very quiet over there. (I made two threads over there: a few views, no posts. I make one post here: more views, MORE replies. Helpful, might I add.) I hope in the future there could be a PM-less Triforce Ganon, because this is very well done. I applaud you, sir(s)!

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Well.. it would appear it is indeed PM exclusive.. for now. How does one know if something isn't going to work on regular brawl mods vs. PM? The brawl workshop has since been very quiet over there. (I made two threads over there: a few views, no posts. I make one post here: more views, MORE replies. Helpful, might I add.) I hope in the future there could be a PM-less Triforce Ganon, because this is very well done. I applaud you, sir(s)!

(Note: completely off topic and if you want to discuss this further you can PM me or start a new thread)
Why not just play PM than?
Imho opinion; it is objectively a better game than Brawl is. Even without considering the game mechanics you get more stages, more characters (and new ones coming!), new modes, new special versus, better load times, at least yearly updates to improve the game and like you said the community is more active and there are more mods for it. All around Brawl just can't really compete with PM... Project M just trumps Brawl on everything....

 

[drogoth232]

-Project M just trumps Brawl on everything....

Except for one important thing: being able to be customized. P:M is quite restrictive when it comes to that.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Except for one important thing: being able to be customized. P:M is quite restrictive when it comes to that.

Didn't know that! I would've never know that because I'm not a modder like yourself. So thank you!

 

[Selpar]

Except for one important thing: being able to be customized. P:M is quite restrictive when it comes to that.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I've seen some pretty extensive customizations to Project M and while I haven't tried my hand at editing brawl itself the main reason for that is that I haven't needed to. Project M can be customized pretty much any way you want. More stages, different characters, different skins, different move sets, and if you need more characters you could just use Project M Unbound which combines Project M with Brawl EX and adds new characters like Lucina, and Pichu. Unfortunately Project M Unbound hasn't been updated to 3.5 yet but I think they are working on it.

On Topic:
I did a bunch more testing 4.2b seems to have completely fixed the auto free fall glitch on the up B because I have not been able to replicate it since I updated. It works great, nice job on the update. Looking forward to the next update. ^.^

 

[drogoth232]

Project M Unbound which combines Project M with Brawl EX and adds new characters like Lucina, and Pichu. Unfortunately Project M Unbound hasn't been updated to 3.5 yet but I think they are working on it.

I'm a part of PM Unbound lol. And that's what I meant, they have to decode the gct before they can make changes. Then there's also adding new characters to the code, which ASM is difficult enough as is.

That's just for Unbound and adding new characters, heaven forbid you want to edit an old one.

 

[Heavy D88]

I don't see it as too taxing if you know what it is that you're doing. Unless you're doing a full on PSA change and everything, editing the characters isn't that difficult. Same with stages, music, textures, or models... Not too hard to do. The only real issue to get around are the .rel files for the heavily modded characters that they've made. That would be it.

 

[Selpar]

I'm a part of PM Unbound lol. And that's what I meant, they have to decode the gct before they can make changes. Then there's also adding new characters to the code, which ASM is difficult enough as is.

That's just for Unbound and adding new characters, heaven forbid you want to edit an old one.

What can I say you make a great counter example against yourself. ^.^
Difficult is not impossible, and from what I've seen you guys have been doing a great job. My point was that there is groups of people who are willing to take the steps necessary for Project M to be modded as desired, the fact that you are one of those people only farther proves that they exist.

As for editing old characters I think it ranges in difficulty drastically depending on what you are doing. Changing minor things like SFX is fairly easy replacing a character with a different one entirely is much harder. Found out how frustrating that can be when I tried to port the Pichu from Project M Unbound over 3.5 Ivysaur, a feat that I got so close to achieving if not for the fact that Pichu's special moves didn't work... I might still revisit that project later after reading a ton of tutorials because I think the main problem is that I'm just inexperienced at modding console games. I started last weekish so who knows maybe one day I'll remove Ivysaur's deadweight from the roster in favor of the lighter, faster, cuter Pichu.

 

[Power Marshall]

Guys? ...GUYS!! GUYS!!! I DID IT. I made it work without Project M! Yes! Thanks for your help guys. I really appreciate it!

Also, to the creators, sorry for making such a distraction in the thread. I just didn't know it was ONLY PM. (I know it's in the PM board, but most of PM's files can work in regular BrawlEx or otherwise.) Again, I apologize.

 

[Selpar]

Guys? ...GUYS!! GUYS!!! I DID IT. I made it work without Project M! Yes! Thanks for your help guys. I really appreciate it!

Also, to the creators, sorry for making such a distraction in the thread. I just didn't know it was ONLY PM. (I know it's in the PM board, but most of PM's files can work in regular BrawlEx or otherwise.) Again, I apologize.

Great, glad to hear you got it working. ^.^

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Guys? ...GUYS!! GUYS!!! I DID IT. I made it work without Project M! Yes! Thanks for your help guys. I really appreciate it!

Also, to the creators, sorry for making such a distraction in the thread. I just didn't know it was ONLY PM. (I know it's in the PM board, but most of PM's files can work in regular BrawlEx or otherwise.) Again, I apologize.

(Fyi- there is only one creator him being Ashingda. But there is animations from Heavy D88 (I don't think anyone else contributed to this besides testing/comments)

Don't worry about "disrupting" the thread. I'm glad to hear you got it working. Have fun!

 

[Ashingda]

@ Power Marshall
Good job on getting it to work. I learned a bit from this discussion so it's all great! So how did you get it to work just in case someone else also has the same issue?

 

[Power Marshall]

@ Ashingda
Well, I wanted to know why his side special was freezing the game, so after much trial and error, and by comparing your pac to brawl's, I notice something weird in Ganon's SpecialSStart.

Spoiler: Here's the original Ganon data of SpecialSStart on Main

Throw Specifier:ID=1, Bone?=0, Damage=4, Direction=0, KnockbackGrowth=10, WeightKnockback=0,BaseKnockback=100, Element=0, UnknownA=1, UnknownB=0, UnknownC=1, UnknownD=0, SFX=2, Direction?=3, UnknownE=true, UnknownF=true, UnknownG=0
Asynchronous Timer: frames=15
Catch Collision 2: 0-0, 0-0, 1-493E0, 1-0, 1-75300, 1-41EB0, 0-E7, 0-1, 0-2,
Catch Collision 2: 0-1, 0-0, 1-EA60, 1-0, 1-75300, 1-3D860, 0-E7, 0-3, 0-2,
Bit Variable Set: RA-Bit[16] = true
Special Offensive Collision: Id=2, Bone=0, Damage=12, ShieldDamage=0, Direction=25, BaseKnockback=60, WeightKnockback=0, KnockbackGrowth=100, Size=6, Z Offset=0, Y Offset=10, X Offset=7, TripRate=0%, HitlagMultiplier=x1, SDIMultiplier=x1, Flags=21030293
Special Offensive Collision: Id=3, Bone=31, Damage=12, ShieldDamage=0, Direction=25, BaseKnockback=60, WeightKnockback=0, KnockbackGrowth=100, Size=4.8, Z Offset=6, Y Offset=0, X Offset=0, TripRate=0%, HitlagMultiplier=x1, SDIMultiplier=x1, Flags=21030293
Asynchronous Timer: frames=30
Terminate Catch Collisions:
Terminate Collisions:
Bit Variable Clear: RA-Bit[16] = false

Spoiler: And here is yours

Throw Specifier:ID=1, Bone?=0, Damage=4, Direction=0, KnockbackGrowth=10, WeightKnockback=0,BaseKnockback=100, Element=0, UnknownA=1, UnknownB=0, UnknownC=1, UnknownD=0, SFX=2, Direction?=3, UnknownE=true, UnknownF=true, UnknownG=0
Float Variable Set: RA-Float[144] = 8.5
Asynchronous Timer: frames=15
Catch Collision 2: 0-0, 0-0, 1-493E0, 1-0, 1-75300, 1-EA60, 0-E7, 0-1, 0-2,
Bit Variable Set: RA-Bit[16] = true
Special Offensive Collision: Id=2, Bone=0, Damage=12, ShieldDamage=0, Direction=25, BaseKnockback=60, WeightKnockback=0, KnockbackGrowth=100, Size=6, Z Offset=0, Y Offset=10, X Offset=7, TripRate=0%, HitlagMultiplier=x1, SDIMultiplier=x1, Flags=21030293
Special Offensive Collision: Id=3, Bone=31, Damage=12, ShieldDamage=0, Direction=25, BaseKnockback=60, WeightKnockback=0, KnockbackGrowth=100, Size=4.8, Z Offset=6, Y Offset=0, X Offset=0, TripRate=0%, HitlagMultiplier=x1, SDIMultiplier=x1, Flags=21030293
Asynchronous Timer: frames=18
Catch Collision 2: 0-1, 0-0, 1-1D4C0, 1-0, 1-802C8, 1-700F8, 0-E7, 0-3, 0-2,
Asynchronous Timer: frames=31
Terminate Catch Collisions:
Terminate Collisions:
Bit Variable Clear: RA-Bit[16] = false

Noticed a difference? At first I didn't, but then I saw it. The "Float Variable Set: RA-Float[144] = 8.5" seemed to be something, so I nop'd it. I also noped the throw specifier just in case. Went to test it, and it worked. I did the same nop to his specialAirSStart, and both worked. No rel needed, just those files, and that code nop'd for it to work. Not sure why that fixed it to be honest, lol.

Your welcome.

 

[Koalified]

Hey, I'm new to modding Project M and such. The most I've done so far is add songs or costumes. How would I go about modding in this moveset? All help is appreciated

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Hey, I'm new to modding Project M and such. The most I've done so far is add songs or costumes. How would I go about modding in this moveset? All help is appreciated

Go to wherever you keep your Project M data (most likely SD card) -> projectm -> pf -> fighter -> ganon

Remove (Delete or move elsewhere, just in case) the files named FitGanon and FitGanonMotionEtc with the two you've downloaded.

Simple as that.