Translated Sakurai Famitsu Interview

[ItsRainingGravy]

How does equalized knock back lead to more lower percent combos? (Legit question, no sarcasm.) shouldn't Marth's potential for low knock back mean he can rack up more combos?

Not always. More knockback = more lift on certain moves. For Marth, non-tippered hits against an opponent with lower damage might not get enough lift in order to continue to combo, especially against heavier opponents. Though for Lucina, I can see her having an easier time managing this. Depending on the landing lag of Uair, I can see her using that as a combo starter on opponents at a percent where Marth could not, especially with a non-tipper hit.

This is, however, merely speculation. And the damage the opponent has to be where Marth's combos are more reliable isn't all that high. In that same regard, I can also see the damage % in which Lucina's combos become unreliable as being not that low, either. They still are clones, after all. So it would probably only slightly favor one of them depending on the circumstances.

 

[Turokman5896]

Not always. More knockback = more lift on certain moves. For Marth, non-tippered hits against an opponent with lower damage might not get enough lift in order to continue to combo, especially against heavier opponents. Though for Lucina, I can see her having an easier time managing this. Depending on the landing lag of Uair, I can see her using that as a combo starter on opponents at a percent where Marth could not, especially with a non-tipper hit.

This is, however, merely speculation. And the damage the opponent has to be where Marth's combos are more reliable isn't all that high. In that same regard, I can also see the damage % in which Lucina's combos become unreliable as being not that low, either. They still are clones, after all. So it would probably only slightly favor one of them depending on the circumstances.

Thanks for the explanation! Personally I think Marth will offer more at high levels since his spacing can be so good, but I'm no expert!

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

No problem.

Overall, I think Marth will indeed offer more at higher levels of play as well. Sealing kills at higher percentages (Marth) is, in my opinion, a more valuable trait in comparison to ensuring more combos at lower percentages (Lucina). Even so, I eagerly wait to try Lucina out myself, and compare the two in much finer detail.

 

[ChikoLad]

Your posts make me wish I could punch people through the internet.

How anyone could complain about the fact we're getting a bonus character is beyond me...

It's posts like yours that make me make a tumblr post that reads "Smashboards is the place to go if you wanna watch people entirely miss your point and get angry at you for an hour". Also, you might need a anger management.

So anyway, I'm not complaining about getting a bonus character. In the post you quoted, I'm simply pointing out Sakurai's poor reasoning.

And in general, I don't mind a bonus character, but Lucina is just poorly executed.

 

[xxEliteAlicexx]

I see Lucina as being that type of character where you can just get in the fray whereas Marth you'll have to be more offensive. I play Marth sometimes so I'm indeed REALLY good at the tip, but I main characters like DK and Kirby, so I like to get in there. Even though she's a clone she can have her differences... I like Lucina as her own character.

 

[Aguki90]

This in fact very interesting.
For one reason I think Sakurai was making Chrom a all new moveset or playstyle. But somehow he got bored with or he could not work with it (The moveset, Playstyle or how he gonna fight.)

So they add Lucina. A clone easy to make and a new woman...(I'm really not like Lucina though.)

So Sakurai was to use Robin and Chrom as two completely unique newcomers but it when to Robin(the real new fighter) and Lucina(Clone). (I like more Chrom and Robin duo though.)

I must say: Is really necessary to have a New Marth clone. Roy was not enough and choose and another that look even more like Marth. I just don't get it.(But Robin to me is a masterpiece and well done, Lucina is FAN-SERVICE TO THE TOP.)

 

[Jumpman84]

It's posts like yours that make me make a tumblr post that reads "Smashboards is the place to go if you wanna watch people entirely miss your point and get angry at you for an hour". Also, you might need a anger management.

So anyway, I'm not complaining about getting a bonus character. In the post you quoted, I'm simply pointing out Sakurai's poor reasoning.

And in general, I don't mind a bonus character, but Lucina is just poorly executed.

Except it's not poor reasoning in the slightest. It was logically explained by Sakurai himself. If you don't understand it, that's fine, but it doesn't make his reasoning any less sound.

And Lucina is not poorly executed. Someone who's pretending to be Marth is going to use a fighting style similar to Marth, no? In addition, since she was intended to be a costume and expanded into a clone character, it's natural for her to look like she'd play like Marth.

Also, it seems that you didn't notice my face on the end of my first statement that implies that I was joking about punching you. But since you're missing the point of how Lucina came to be, I'm not surprised that you missed that, too.

 

[ChikoLad]

Except it's not poor reasoning in the slightest. It was logically explained by Sakurai himself. If you don't understand it, that's fine, but it doesn't make his reasoning any less sound.

And Lucina is not poorly executed. Someone who's pretending to be Marth is going to use a fighting style similar to Marth, no? In addition, since she was intended to be a costume and expanded into a clone character, it's natural for her to look like she'd play like Marth.

Also, it seems that you didn't notice my face on the end of my first statement that implies that I was joking about punching you. But since you're missing the point of how Lucina came to be, I'm not surprised that you missed that, too.

No, because it contradicts how he treated another character he could have done the same thing to.

She's poorly executed in that she adds nothing substantial to the game in any way, only pandering to her small fanbase for the sake of it, unlike Robin, who actually adds something to the game. Yeah, she's a clone, but an uninteresting one. Even a clone should have more to them than simply getting rid of the base character's mechanic and calling it a day. I'm not missing the point of how she came to be, I'm saying it doesn't excuse how she is the most uncreative clone.

And it seems you didn't register my own sarcasm (the "you might need anger management" part). I just don't leave obvious indicators of my sarcasm because it defeats the purpose of sarcasm.

 

[MrPanic]

No, because it contradicts how he treated another character he could have done the same thing to.

Not really though. Lucina was a alt costume that got her own slot by luck because of stat differences. Chrom would've been a original new character, but because he's just a generic sworduser and his original game didn't give him must to stand out in smash, he didn't make the cut.

It really never was a question about Lucina vs Chrom, it was about Robin vs Chrom with no fourth FE slot to be had. Lucina was just a late addition because of reasons.

Though I got to say that I suspect that the stat reasoning is total bull. I think they were set on their roster, but wanted to fill it up a bit to make the final roster look like a filled square just like it did with Brawl. Only then to decide an easier Marth would be a nice addition with the reasoning Sakurai gave.

 

[ChikoLad]

Not really though. Lucina was a alt costume that got her own slot by luck because of stat differences. Chrom would've been a original new character, but because he's just a generic sworduser and his original game didn't give him must to stand out in smash, he didn't make the cut.

It really never was a question about Lucina vs Chrom, it was about Robin vs Chrom with no fourth FE slot to be had. Lucina was just a late addition because of reasons.

Though I got to say that I suspect that the stat reasoning is total bull. I think they were set on their roster, but wanted to fill it up a bit to make the final roster look like a filled square just like it did with Brawl. Only then to decide an easier Marth would be a nice addition with the reasoning Sakurai gave.

And Chrom could have easily been an Ike clone since he had a model so this whole reasoning Sakurai gave is a cluster**** of contradictory statements. Every single thing he said about Chrom is applicable to Lucina and is true of Lucina.

 

[Curious Villager]

Why do I feel like the arguments in this thread are going around in circles?

Can we cut down on the hostility a bit please?

 

[☆Jazz☆]

And Chrom could have easily been an Ike clone since he had a model so this whole reasoning Sakurai gave is a cluster**** of contradictory statements. Every single thing he said about Chrom is applicable to Lucina and is true of Lucina.

True. But o' Well.

 

[ChikoLad]

True. But o' Well.

That was basically my attitude coming into this topic. I don't care about Chrom not getting in, and Lucina being a bad excuse for a clone in my eyes means little to me, as the rest of the cast looks awesome and diverse to me, and I don't care about the character or her game of origin as of now so I wouldn't use her much regardless.

But I felt like pointing out the problems with Sakurai's statements since the Lucina fans seem so intent in branding her as the better choice over Chrom and are trying to use Sakurai's statement to back it up, even though his statements don't fix or justify the problems many unbiased people (e.g. non-Fire Emblem fans) have with the character.

People keep missing my point though, and think I hate Lucina in her original game and think I love Chrom. But I don't care about either of them as characters. I'm just playing devil's advocate, and pointing out the hypocrisy a lot of Lucina fans are showing (not just here on Smashboards or in relation to this article, I see it on Tumblr too).

 

[Jumpman84]

No, because it contradicts how he treated another character he could have done the same thing to.

Are you trying to refer to Chrom? He can't be given that treatment because he's part of Robin's Final Smash. If there was a Chrom costume, then you'd run into confusion with both Chroms onscreen at the same time. But the game is still in development, so, as Chrom says, "Anything can change!" (When the Chrom costume is selected, Robin's Final Smash summons Alfonzo instead.) The point remains that Chrom and Lucina were designed with different roles in mind. There is no contradiction here.

She's poorly executed in that she adds nothing substantial to the game in any way, only pandering to her small fanbase for the sake of it, unlike Robin, who actually adds something to the game. Yeah, she's a clone, but an uninteresting one. Even a clone should have more to them than simply getting rid of the base character's mechanic and calling it a day. I'm not missing the point of how she came to be, I'm saying it doesn't excuse how she is the most uncreative clone.

I'm so glad you've come from the future and have actually played this game and as Lucina that you can tell us for a fact that she is uninteresting and uncreative. How's Ridley play?

I also fail to see how you claim that she adds nothing substantial to the game when she is an additional character to the roster, the first female swordsman of the series, and offers an interesting take on Marth's playstyle.

And it seems you didn't register my own sarcasm (the "you might need anger management" part). I just don't leave obvious indicators of my sarcasm because it defeats the purpose of sarcasm

Sorry, I had no idea that it was sarcasm because it sounded like everything else you've been saying in this entire topic. Too bad that the point of sarcasm is to make it obvious that you're being sarcastic, else there's no reason to even have sarcasm other than being sarcastic.

 

[Metallaeus]

But I felt like pointing out the problems with Sakurai's statements since the Lucina fans seem so intent in branding her as the better choice over Chrom and are trying to use Sakurai's statement to back it up, even though his statements don't fix or justify the problems many unbiased people (e.g. non-Fire Emblem fans) have with the character.
.

Except most people recognize the situation was the obvious Robin vs Chrom and Lucina was just a convenient choice for another character since she was going to be a Marth alt anyways. Sakurai just simply decided on a whim to make her into her own character by adding slight changes because, well why not. From what I've seen, we all know it wasn't a Lucina over Chrom situation, which is why you're looking at this completely wrong.

 

[SoaringDive]

It's only a contradiction if you think of it as Chrom VS Lucina, but that was never the case. When development began, Chrom was in Robin's final smash and Lucina was an alt. costume. They decided "eh, why not" and gave her her own mechanic, and spent an afternoon or two (in comparison to the amount of work of a newcomer) tweaking her - a very different situation from Chrom.

 

[MrPanic]

And Chrom could have easily been an Ike clone since he had a model so this whole reasoning Sakurai gave is a cluster**** of contradictory statements. Every single thing he said about Chrom is applicable to Lucina and is true of Lucina.

But Lucina being a clone of Marth is almost canon. Chrom being a clone of Ike makes no sense, that's like saying Ganon could be a clone of Captain Falcon or something. Wait wut?

Point is, Chrom is his own character while Lucina is pretty much trying to be Marth anyway, so Lucina makes way more sense as a clone than Ike. Chrom isn't really copying anyone, he's just generic, making him a bad original character and a bad clone imo.

 

[Shotguner159]

How would Chrom work as an Ike clone anyway? He's much smaller than Ike, Falchions much smaller than Ragnell so making him into an Ike clone would take massive amounts of change, until he may as well not have began as Chrom at all. He would make sense as a Marth clone, both the men and their weapons being of a similar size, but given that Lucina already had the animations and hitbox, why map that stuff onto Chrom when it's much easier to split Lucina into her own character?

 

[ChikoLad]

Are you trying to refer to Chrom? He can't be given that treatment because he's part of Robin's Final Smash. If there was a Chrom costume, then you'd run into confusion with both Chroms onscreen at the same time. But the game is still in development, so, as Chrom says, "Anything can change!" (When the Chrom costume is selected, Robin's Final Smash summons Alfonzo instead.) The point remains that Chrom and Lucina were designed with different roles in mind. There is no contradiction here.



I'm so glad you've come from the future and have actually played this game and as Lucina that you can tell us for a fact that she is uninteresting and uncreative. How's Ridley play?

I also fail to see how you claim that she adds nothing substantial to the game when she is an additional character to the roster, the first female swordsman of the series, and offers an interesting take on Marth's playstyle.



Sorry, I had no idea that it was sarcasm because it sounded like everything else you've been saying in this entire topic. Too bad that the point of sarcasm is to make it obvious that you're being sarcastic, else there's no reason to even have sarcasm other than being sarcastic.

Chrom was not planned to be a part of Robin's Final Smash from the beginning of the game's development and you have absolutely nothing to support such a claim. He could have easily been a generic blue haired swordfighter clone like Lucina is. But Sakurai claims Chrom couldn't be playable because that's all he could ever be. Yet Lucina.

Ridley plays great. He's not playable, but he's a stage boss in the game. He really tries his hardest despite not getting a role he wanted, so he's a pretty great sport.

In all seriousness though, ever heard of the concept of first impressions? That's what my current impression of Lucina is based off of, because I have nothing else. Kinda why these newcomer trailers exist, to give us those first impressions. Every move she performs in the trailer is one Marth does and doesn't seem to function any differently. Then that PotD comes along and the only stated difference between her and Marth is Lucina lacks Marth's tipper mechanic, and is shorter than him (barely noticeable though - in fact, the PotD made her look like the taller of the two from the angle it was taken at). Then, Sakurai writes this article, and STILL divulges nothing more on her that makes her different - yet clears up how Robin works, which wasn't too obvious from the trailer.

And no, removing the tipper doesn't make her interesting. It's what made Marth interesting to begin with. At least Roy had the same mechanic, only in a different part of the blade, so he still has that interesting mechanic (in a new flavour), as well as all of the other small differences. Lucina is just Marth with training wheels. That's not interesting, it's dumbing her down. As if Smash ever needed that. If that's enough to make a character interesting, than I suppose Pink Gold Peach shot to the top of every wishlist. Give heavier physics than Peach and change nothing else. Best addition.

And simply being just another female or just another character is not a substantial addition, as it brings nothing new to the table, so I have no reason to be appreciative of her. That's like saying a starving African child should be appreciative if I give him my own feces for dinner.

 

[SubparSmashBrother]

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

Chrom was not planned to be a part of Robin's Final Smash from the beginning of the game's development and you have absolutely nothing to support such a claim. He could have easily been a generic blue haired swordfighter clone like Lucina is. But Sakurai claims Chrom couldn't be playable because that's all he could ever be. Yet Lucina.

Ridley plays great. He's not playable, but he's a stage boss in the game. He really tries his hardest despite not getting a role he wanted, so he's a pretty great sport.

In all seriousness though, ever heard of the concept of first impressions? That's what my current impression of Lucina is based off of, because I have nothing else. Kinda why these newcomer trailers exist, to give us those first impressions. Every move she performs in the trailer is one Marth does and doesn't seem to function any differently. Then that PotD comes along and the only stated difference between her and Marth is Lucina lacks Marth's tipper mechanic, and is shorter than him (barely noticeable though - in fact, the PotD made her look like the taller of the two from the angle it was taken at). Then, Sakurai writes this article, and STILL divulges nothing more on her that makes her different - yet clears up how Robin works, which wasn't too obvious from the trailer.

And no, removing the tipper doesn't make her interesting. It's what made Marth interesting to begin with. At least Roy had the same mechanic, only in a different part of the blade, so he still has that interesting mechanic (in a new flavour), as well as all of the other small differences. Lucina is just Marth with training wheels. That's not interesting, it's dumbing her down. As if Smash ever needed that. If that's enough to make a character interesting, than I suppose Pink Gold Peach shot to the top of every wishlist. Give heavier physics than Peach and change nothing else. Best addition.

And simply being just another female or just another character is not a substantial addition, as it brings nothing new to the table, so I have no reason to be appreciative of her. That's like saying a starving African child should be appreciative if I give him my own feces for dinner.

Have you ever considered that removing the tipper mechanic would actually present a new way to play Marth's playstyle? And if I recall, isn't that what a clone does? Meaning you can't play Lucina the way you play Marth. From what I understand Marth is about spacing, while Lucina will probably be focused on combo/rushing down. Not to offend you but from how you keep describing Lucina as a "Marth with training wheels", you assume that people are gonna play Lucina the same way they play Marth.

As for the whole Chrom thing, here's how it goes, based on how I read what Sakurai said:
- Sakurai plays game (he did mention that he played through Awakening) with possibly picking only one Fire Emblem Awakening character.
- Sees Robin. Inspiration strikes him and decides Robin would be the best to represent.
- Sees Chrom, but compared to Robin, he was just a bland swordsman.
- Sees Lucina and her similarities to Marth fighting style-wise and story-wise. Decides to make her a Marth alternate as a easter egg.
- Develops Robin, creates Chrom model most likely just for Robin's Final Smash. Meanwhile, Lucina's model is already being created as a Marth alt.
- Somehow during development, Lucina ends up becoming different. And so separates her from Marth as her own character.

If Sakurai had to choose between Lucina and Robin, then of course he would have chosen Robin. But since Lucina was already in by virtue of originally being a Marth alternate, then that technically removes her from the Chrom equation.

As for why he allowed Lucina and not Chrom. It was because, by the time he most likely separated Lucina, they were probably mid-way in developing Robin.

As for making Chrom an Ike clone, like others said, it wouldn't make sense story-wise or gameplay-wise (just like Ganondorf being a freaking Captain Falcon clone). The reason Sakurai even considered Lucina is because her similarities to Marth story-wise makes sense for her to be an alt. And then stuff happened that made her her own separate character.

 

[clearandsweet]

A more apt analogy would be giving a starving African child the choice between a hamburger and a cheeseburger. Then leaving the one he didn't pick there so he can appreciate it later as well.

Lucina is just Marth with training wheels.

There's more to a character than what animation plays when she does her up air.

I've never gotten through Shadow Dragon (it plays like the very old game it is), but I married Lucina in my game. I willingly let her kill me to save the future. I know her like I know Mario and Sonic after growing up with my NES and Genesis. I have an emotional attachment to that character that I do not have to Marth.

In Smash Bros, she'll have her own records. She'll be part of event matches without or against Marth. She'll have her own audio, stats and trophies. She'll be listed among DK and Mario and Captain Falcon forevermore as a character in Smash Bros 4. People on this board will break down the move differences between her and Marth, even down to the small height variance. She'll play differently. Maybe better. Maybe worse. Maybe similarly, but differently. And that, as Sakurai says, is reason in and of itself to include her.

Does she have a creative moveset? Nah. Would Chrom have been any more an inspired a choice? No. Will I enjoy playing as her? Yes. Is she worthy of being her own character? Yes.

I think if they wanted to add Daisy as a clone of Peach with slightly different properties, Mrs. Pac-Man as a clone of Pac-Man, Protoman, Tails, ect, ect, I wouldn't mind at all. More options or content are never a bad thing.

 

[Fenrir VII]

@ clearandsweet with the perfect post.

Robin was by far the most interesting/important char in awakening, and his/her inclusion was easily the right choice, over chrom, who was the most generic Lord char in the last 4 or so FE games.

Lucina's inclusion seems to have been "well, we have a model for her, but maybe she shouldn't be identical to Marth" so they split her off and gave her her own taunts, etc etc (not to mention that she actually is a completely different character than Marth, unlike other skins) Honestly I think that was the right choice for the minimal amount of effort required...


BTW, I'll never think that clones are bad in a series where they all play completely differently than their counterparts

 

[MrPanic]

The point Sakurai was probably trying to make is that it was a waste of time and effort to create a new character that's gonna be generic in the end anyway. Clones can fill that roll

Clones only have one real purpose, they're filler. They're not there to be exciting or interesting, they're there to fill up a slot of a cancelled character or just to reach a certain number of characters. So I really don't get this Chrom discussion since it really doesn't matter who's the clone, clones gonna clone you know. At least Lucina makes sense as a clone.

 

[☆Jazz☆]

That was basically my attitude coming into this topic. I don't care about Chrom not getting in, and Lucina being a bad excuse for a clone in my eyes means little to me, as the rest of the cast looks awesome and diverse to me, and I don't care about the character or her game of origin as of now so I wouldn't use her much regardless.

But I felt like pointing out the problems with Sakurai's statements since the Lucina fans seem so intent in branding her as the better choice over Chrom and are trying to use Sakurai's statement to back it up, even though his statements don't fix or justify the problems many unbiased people (e.g. non-Fire Emblem fans) have with the character.

People keep missing my point though, and think I hate Lucina in her original game and think I love Chrom. But I don't care about either of them as characters. I'm just playing devil's advocate, and pointing out the hypocrisy a lot of Lucina fans are showing (not just here on Smashboards or in relation to this article, I see it on Tumblr too).

I understand. Also, Alot of people STILL Complain about there being 4 Fire Emblem reps, smh.

 

[ChikoLad]

Y'all are hypocrites, really, since Toon Link plays far differently to Link than Lucina seemingly does to Marth. But because she's apparently everyone's waifu, it's fine, just fine.

Have you ever considered that removing the tipper mechanic would actually present a new way to play Marth's playstyle? And if I recall, isn't that what a clone does? Meaning you can't play Lucina the way you play Marth. From what I understand Marth is about spacing, while Lucina will probably be focused on combo/rushing down. Not to offend you but from how you keep describing Lucina as a "Marth with training wheels", you assume that people are gonna play Lucina the same way they play Marth.

...Not really, since you can still fight effectively using any part of Marth's blade. The tipper is just EXTRA strong. He's not super weak elsewhere.

Lucina just takes the spacing element away altogether. She doesn't take it in an interesting new direction. Or bring in a different element of her own. Just takes it away. That doesn't add anything to the game. Plus, I'm pretty sure a tipper-less Marth could have been made possible with equipment, and giving the tipper mechanic to other characters would be possible through the same means.

A more apt analogy would be giving a starving African child the choice between a hamburger and a cheeseburger. Then leaving the one he didn't pick there so he can appreciate it later as well.



There's more to a character than what animation plays when she does her up air.

I've never gotten through Shadow Dragon (it plays like the very old game it is), but I married Lucina in my game. I willingly let her kill me to save the future. I know her like I know Mario and Sonic after growing up with my NES and Genesis. I have an emotional attachment to that character that I do not have to Marth.

In Smash Bros, she'll have her own records. She'll be part of event matches without or against Marth. She'll have her own audio, stats and trophies. She'll be listed among DK and Mario and Captain Falcon forevermore as a character in Smash Bros 4. People on this board will break down the move differences between her and Marth, even down to the small height variance. She'll play differently. Maybe better. Maybe worse. Maybe similarly, but differently. And that, as Sakurai says, is reason in and of itself to include her.

Does she have a creative moveset? Nah. Would Chrom have been any more an inspired a choice? No. Will I enjoy playing as her? Yes. Is she worthy of being her own character? Yes.

I think if they wanted to add Daisy as a clone of Peach with slightly different properties, Mrs. Pac-Man as a clone of Pac-Man, Protoman, Tails, ect, ect, I wouldn't mind at all. More options or content are never a bad thing.

...Hence why I said her addition is nothing more than pandering to her niche fan base for the sake of pandering.

I understand. Also, Alot of people STILL Complain about there being 4 Fire Emblem reps, smh.

I don't see a problem with four, even five Fire Emblem reps. Lucina having her own slot just has the poorest reasons behind it.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

Y'all are hypocrites, really, since Toon Link plays far differently to Link than Lucina seemingly does to Marth. But because she's apparently everyone's waifu, it's fine, just fine.



...Not really, since you can still fight effectively using any part of Marth's blade. The tipper is just EXTRA strong. He's not super weak elsewhere.

Lucina just takes the spacing element away altogether. She doesn't take it in an interesting new direction. Or bring in a different element of her own. Just takes it away. That doesn't add anything to the game. Plus, I'm pretty sure a tipper-less Marth could have been made possible with equipment, and giving the tipper mechanic to other characters would be possible through the same means.



...Hence why I said her addition is nothing more than pandering to her niche fan base for the sake of pandering.



I don't see a problem with four, even five Fire Emblem reps. Lucina having her own slot just has the poorest reasons behind it.

And how is pandering to her fanbase a bad thing? Isn't Smash partly to celebrate Nintendo characters? I swear it's like instead of being happy for others, people just want to bring them down just because they're depressed or pissed off. I know how much you love Rosalina. Can someone say then that she's just there to pander to her fanbase?

Hell the original concept of the game was for fans of various characters to come around.

As for the reasons, I repeat what I said earlier.

 

[Deleted member]

I actually had a long, written out response drafted up, but after seeing how this discussion has turned out, there's no point in me trying to knock some sense into someone who makes the same damn baseless complaint after the situation being explained to them multiple times by different people and makes strawman points about how people are just biased for Lucina.

I actually hate how Lucina is shaping up to be the biggest clone in Smash history, especially since I feel Awakening only needed one character and that if we needed a Marth clone, it should have been Roy as a returning veteran. And since I would have rather seen a Karas-esque style from her.
However, given the circumstances on why she's a clone to begin with, which can only be summed up as an unintentional accident, I am more understanding of her inclusion and am baffled on how anyone can be so narrow-minded as to claim there's a contradiction at hand when there isn't.
Is the only other alternative where Sakurai just says "**** it" and scraps the Lucina alt entirely as opposed to making it separate really the better choice?

 

[HugoBoss]

Tips for anyone still debating
-Never mention Lucina being the "first female swordsman" again unless you want to lose credibility and respect .
-Everyone is a hypocrite, stop stating the obvious . Every single post on this thread(including mine) is by a hypocrite. Even YOU
-As it stands, less than two months before the Japanese 3DS release and from Sakurai himself stated, Lucina is only Marth without the tipper mechanic. That's it. And because of that one change, she seems to be the cloniest clone in Smash. Yay?
-Chrom VS Robin, not Chrom VS Lucina
-Yes, making Lucina similar to Marth is justified, since this Smash is trying to follow canon(Sarcasm)
No, making Lucina similar to Marth is not justified, since this Smash is trying to follow canon(Sarcasm)
-Slots don't exist
-
-Actually have your own dang opinion for once
-Ask yourself this, are you actually fine with a roster full of fillers just for fanservice?
-Is Lucina an exception, or should the roster be padded with clones for fanservice?
-More options are good
-More options are bad
-Are you still reading this?
-NO MORE GEMATSU
-Remember other clones
-Bias

That's about it, I'm out.

 

[Hyperstorm]

I'm honestly surprised there are so many FE characters in the game. What gives?

 

[Jumpman84]

There's no point in trying to argue with an obvious troll, as @ ChikoLad is proving to be. He or she is just trying to turn people against Sakurai for no good reason. It's not gonna work on me. Sakurai is a person that I care about and hold with the utmost regards. Nothing you say or do will ever change that.

Honestly, if you don't appreciate Sakurai giving us an extra character that we wouldn't have had otherwise, then you're beyond help. I am a true Smash Bros. fan, who understands that character selection is stressful "almost to the brink of death", and I applaud Sakurai for taking a big risk by choosing the more diverse Robin instead of the expected character Chrom. I also applaud his second risk of making Lucina into a clone character in spite of the fanbase's unjustified hatred for clones. He even took time out of his stressful life to explain why he chose Robin over Chrom, and how Lucina ended up in the roster when he was not obligated to do so. If you want to remain blissfully ignorant, that's your choice. But don't expect us to agree with you when the facts speak for themselves.

@ clearandsweet , kudos to you on a fantastic first post and welcome to the boards!

 

[Game7a1]

I am more or less surprised that 5 pages of this thread was for arguing (I don't see a debate) against someone's logic over than point of 1 of the 3 characters revealed rather than discussing about the interview and what it could further entail.
The interview might have gone better, but I think it was a bit loose (which should not have happened). Doesn't mean we should stop respecting viewpoints and see who has a better idea of what Sakurai meant.

 

[ChikoLad]

And how is pandering to her fanbase a bad thing? Isn't Smash partly to celebrate Nintendo characters? I swear it's like instead of being happy for others, people just want to bring them down just because they're depressed or pissed off. I know how much you love Rosalina. Can someone say then that she's just there to pander to her fanbase?

Hell the original concept of the game was for fans of various characters to come around.

As for the reasons, I repeat what I said earlier.

I always look forward to the inevitable "well u luv rosalina" card in these kinds of discussions. It's truly a classic.

Rosalina isn't just there to pander to her fanbase because:

-She's probably the most unique addition to the series we've seen in terms of how she plays, which is a very widely accepted opinion of her, even by those who don't necessarily like her in the Mario series. Rosalina and her Lumas fill a nice puppet master archetype that has never been in Smash Bros. She is also shaping up to be the most technically intricate character in the game. Everyone who played her at E3 has said the same thing about her - "She seems like she could be really good, but I haven't had near enough time to say I've had a good sampling of her potential because the relationship between her and Luma opens up so many possibilities". With every other newcomer, people have been able to get decent grasp on them. Rosalina is still a bit of an enigma to people, even those who played her most, which is a testament to how justified her play style is in the game. This is just me making a wild hypothesis, but - I wouldn't be surprised if what Sakurai says about Robin applies to Rosalina & Luma, in that he could envision how different they could be before he even got to work. I know I could with either one of them ON THEIR OWN, so I can only imagine Sakurai could.

-She alone represents a very specific series of Mario games that are widely considered some of the best games of all time, by critics and fans alike, and Rosalina and her back story and just overall role in the game are a big part of that. She's one of the first things you'll think of when you think of Galaxy. While the other Mario reps in Smash Bros are all in Galaxy, they don't represent that game in particular, nor do their movesets have any influence from that game (and Robin filled that void in the case of FE:A so don't even try and tell me that this point works with Lucina - especially since it can also work with Chrom).

-Let's assume Rosalina in Smash is nothing more than pandering (her inclusion in 3D World was, to an extent, as well as being a "creator's pet" inclusion in that game). At least she has a fanbase worth pandering to when you look at the numbers. Super Mario Galaxy sold over 11 million copies, and Rosalina was pretty much the only character that stood out in it to most people, as the game was not designed to use story or characters as a selling point, since Mario's name on a game's box is more an assurance of a really polished game than it is done because he is an interesting and marketable character on his own (which is why Rosalina stood out - she's basically to the Mario series what Raiden is to the Metal Gear Solid series). Meanwhile, Fire Emblem: Awakening sold one million, and the game is very much driven by it's wide array of characters (they HAVE to make sure all of the characters are really appealing, because you can marry many of them). So Lucina doesn't stand out as much even if she is a really good character (I have no opinion on that), because ALL of the characters are deep and appealing. And the FE:A fan base doesn't even touch the size of the SMG series fan base (and certainly not the Mario fan base), or the Smash fan base, with a 100 foot pole.

TL;DR - Lucina is in NO WAY a comparable situation to Rosalina, and you bringing that up is nothing more than an attempted jab at me.

What makes your comparison even more ironic is that Rosalina supporters have historically been shunned for wanting a character that could be "no more than a Peach clone", even though anyone who knew at least a bit about the character should have seen that she had the potential to be one of the most unique characters in the game (even LUMA ALONE has that potential - Lumas can transform into anything, after all). Then she is revealed as the most unique character in the game, and she manages to be one of the most controversial additions to the Smash community.

Yet, Lucina has been praised as this high priority and iconic character, and as a unique addition before her reveal. Then she gets revealed as the cloniest of clones and everyone is trying to damage control the criticisms made towards her, as if she is this precious little baby that needs protecting.

What's great about this also, is that I have not undermined any single person's point by saying "you have a Lucina avater so obviously your point is invalid". No, I have legitimately spoke to them as if they didn't have a clue who Lucina is.

I actually had a long, written out response drafted up, but after seeing how this discussion has turned out, there's no point in me trying to knock some sense into someone who makes the same damn baseless complaint after the situation being explained to them multiple times by different people and makes strawman points about how people are just biased for Lucina.

If you're gonna talk **** about me, at least mention my name rather than trying to slip it under my nose, and don't do the whole "I HAD A DRAFT WRITTEN UP BUT THIS MORTAL IS BENEATH ME" shtick. At least I have the respect and human decency to address people directly when I call out their questionable points/points at disagree with.

Is the only other alternative where Sakurai just says "**** it" and scraps the Lucina alt entirely as opposed to making it separate really the better choice?

I never once said "Lucina does not deserve to be in the game at all".

I merely stated that EVEN AS FAR CLONES GO, she's still really redundant and uncreative. And her originating as an alt costume doesn't change the fact that they could have done more interesting things with her even as a clone, and the fact that many people originally thought she WAS an alt in the trailer, is further evidence that she is far too similar.

There's no point in trying to argue with an obvious troll, as @ ChikoLad is proving to be. He or she is just trying to turn people against Sakurai for no good reason. It's not gonna work on me. Sakurai is a person that I care about and hold with the utmost regards. Nothing you say or do will ever change that.

Honestly, if you don't appreciate Sakurai giving us an extra character that we wouldn't have had otherwise, then you're beyond help. I am a true Smash Bros. fan, who understands that character selection is stressful "almost to the brink of death", and I applaud Sakurai for taking a big risk by choosing the more diverse Robin instead of the expected character Chrom. I also applaud his second risk of making Lucina into a clone character in spite of the fanbase's unjustified hatred for clones. He even took time out of his stressful life to explain why he chose Robin over Chrom, and how Lucina ended up in the roster when he was not obligated to do so. If you want to remain blissfully ignorant, that's your choice. But don't expect us to agree with you when the facts speak for themselves.

@ clearandsweet , kudos to you on a fantastic first post and welcome to the boards!

Sakurai is one of my biggest idols.
He is the person who inspires a lot of my views on games design in general.
He made a good number of my favourite games.
I have argued at length, on this very forum, when people unjustifiably **** on the man and pretend they are better than him.

I was the first person to follow what is now a fairly popular Sakurai dedication blog within minutes of it's inception, and no, I didn't know the creator of the blog beforehand.

So don't even TRY to tell me I am trying to turn people against him.

And I don't mean this in a egotistical way, but:

I think that messages to likes ratio is at least some objective proof that I don't like to spend my time around here trolling or contributing nothing, and I mean that in the most humble way possible.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

This topic makes me think that I am playing Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island.

 

[Dracometeor]

And Chrom could have easily been an Ike clone since he had a model so this whole reasoning Sakurai gave is a cluster**** of contradictory statements. Every single thing he said about Chrom is applicable to Lucina and is true of Lucina.

Ok. I just gotta say Ike is NOTHING like Chrom. AT ALL. I hate all the people that keep saying they are close enough to be clones. Ike works out and is a blue collar mercenary who in turn is buff as ****. Chrom is a royal prince and is not muscular in any way comparable to Ike. Ike uses a LARGE two handed sword. Chrom uses his wimpy small sword that requires him and his lord counterparts to use two hands for a sword the size of a stick (No disrespect).

Seriously Chrom is half the size of Ike. It's like saying Bowser could have a clone of Dry Bones as his alt. STOP.\

Blue Hair + Fire Emblem IS NOT Clone status.

 

[ChikoLad]

Ok. I just gotta say Ike is NOTHING like Chrom. AT ALL. I hate all the people that keep saying they are close enough to be clones. Ike works out and is a blue collar mercenary who in turn is buff as ****. Chrom is a royal prince and is not muscular in any way comparable to Ike. Ike uses a LARGE two handed sword. Chrom uses his wimpy small sword that requires him and his lord counterparts to use two hands for a sword the size of a stick (No disrespect).

Seriously Chrom is half the size of Ike. It's like saying Bowser could have a clone of Dry Bones as his alt. STOP.\

Blue Hair + Fire Emblem IS NOT Clone status.

I'm not saying they are alike, but Chrom could have worked as an Ike clone if he wasn't worth a unique moveset. Canon relation doesn't matter.

 

[Shotguner159]

I'm not saying they are alike, but Chrom could have worked as an Ike clone if he wasn't worth a unique moveset. Canon relation doesn't matter.

Captain Falcon and Ganondorf had similar physiques, and don't use weapons. Chrom uses a weapon that looks minuscule next to Ragnell and doesn't have a similar physique to Ike. He wouldn't have worked as an Ike clone.

 

[ChikoLad]

Captain Falcon and Ganondorf had similar physiques, and don't use weapons. Chrom uses a weapon that looks minuscule next to Ragnell and doesn't have a similar physique to Ike. He wouldn't have worked as an Ike clone.

You also half described what makes Toon Link's meta game different.

 

[Jumpman84]

Sakurai is one of my biggest idols.
He is the person who inspires a lot of my views on games design in general.
He made a good number of my favourite games.
I have argued at length, on this very forum, when people unjustifiably **** on the man and pretend they are better than him.

I was the first person to follow what is now a fairly popular Sakurai dedication blog within minutes of it's inception, and no, I didn't know the creator of the blog beforehand.

So don't even TRY to tell me I am trying to turn people against him.

That's all fine and good, but the evidence suggests otherwise. In fact, on this same page...

And Chrom could have easily been an Ike clone since he had a model so this whole reasoning Sakurai gave is a cluster**** of contradictory statements. Every single thing he said about Chrom is applicable to Lucina and is true of Lucina.

...you blatantly insult Sakurai and is "reasoning". Yet you claim you're not trying to turn people against him and that he is one of your idols. Contradiction much?

And I don't mean this in a egotistical way, but:

I think that messages to likes ratio is at least some objective proof that I don't like to spend my time around here trolling or contributing nothing, and I mean that in the most humble way possible.

HEY! How come you have a blue background on yours? No fair!! Well, two can play this game!

As you can see, I also have more likes to messages and a lot of trophy points. So it's fair to conclude that I also contribute something to Smashboards, just like Lucina contributes to Smash Bros. It might not be as big a contribution as yours/Marth's, but it's still a contribution. Who has the right to say that my/Lucina's existence is without merit?

 

[aldelaro5]

I can't believe this was ignored despite receiving likes for pointing it out.

I found this statement quite important:

Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place. Not only did he possess characteristics unlike other fighters, but he also captured the essence of the Fire Emblem series. It was perfect!

This for me is a good idea of how Sakurai choose characters. I don't know about you but it seems to tell me that if I see x character in smash, how obvious I could interpret it would depends if he would be included or not.

In other words, a moveset too "forced" wouldn't seem appealing to him.

I don't know but I think this is important.

Even tough it's subjective, do you realise that it could affect most of characters? Because it shows how Sakurai chooses his priority.