I would just like to say. Your Avi is sexy af. OMG Girahim.Oh I didn't never noticed this... this is pretty cool! How could I miss that?
/me faints.
If he got in it would be humongous plus for the Gay Smash Community. Your avi could be his alt.
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I would just like to say. Your Avi is sexy af. OMG Girahim.Oh I didn't never noticed this... this is pretty cool! How could I miss that?
TO's are inherently going to have to experiment with allowing customisation. It's a big new feature no other game in the series has had. So it could really enhance the appeal of Smash 4's scene in particular.Except not... there are multiple items, all of the items have varying power levels even if they have the same name, therefore there is no standard for acceptable power levels and would be difficult to get the "BEST" equipment. Because of this I sincerely doubt that ALL of the consoles used at tournaments will have the same equipment accessible. This is to a much larger extent then custom moves (which I believe have a chance at being used in competitive) due to the random variance of equipment. This would also add a ton of setup time. Especially because inbetween games the players would want to change stats or could be using a different character entirely.
This is a TO's nightmare. Near impossible setup and creating MUCH lengthier matches. I believe it is fair to assume equipment upgrades will be banned. Especially considering players are already debating Custom moves being banned for the same reasons, except equipment has the same issues but even more severe.
I'm not treating it like melee or brawl. I gave you valid reasons why it would be banned and what the limitations are for it. If you would rather disregard my statements and wave it off as me trying to make the game play like Melee/Brawl 2.0 then fine. I have nothing more to say if your not going to even attempt to address the flaws I addressed with allowing equipment customization in Tournament play.One of the Treehouse employees on the Nintendo Treehouse stream also showed off how you can get loot in Smash Run on 3DS, and how you can use it and acquire it in other modes across the game. And since Amiibos have not yet been announced for Smash 3DS, that means you can use that equipment with your own characters. It's not just custom moves.
TO's are inherently going to have to experiment with allowing customisation. It's a big new feature no other game in the series has had. So it could really enhance the appeal of Smash 4's scene in particular.
Let's not treat this game like it's Melee or Brawl, at tournaments.
What about your Lucina with Speed Boots X is always going to be faster than Marth with Speed Boots X arguement?I'm not treating it like melee or brawl. I gave you valid reasons why it would be banned and what the limitations are for it. If you would rather disregard my statements and wave it off as me trying to make the game play like Melee/Brawl 2.0 then fine. I have nothing more to say if your not going to even attempt to address the flaws I addressed with allowing equipment customization in Tournament play.
Oh woah, as a league player I know base stats are very important for how strong or weak you can be later via customization. Yeah you can make Mario a tank with all out defense if you wanted to so he is tankier than Bowser but his base stats still matter for where that will take him.Using equipment is a terrible example... That's like saying Mario and Bowser would be equal in terms of power. Since base stats mean nothing when you can upgrade them... This is bad logic. Have you heard of Pokemon EV's? In Pokemon the base stats of a pokemon change everything, they change the amount of effective EV's and determine what pokemon are actually worth getting certain EV's or even using the Pokemon. Now this is how I see the equipment upgrades. They will work in much the same way Pokemon EV's do and will still account for the base stats.
AKA Marth with max speed equipment would not be faster then a Lucina with max speed equipment (assuming she has a faster or equal base speed)
Also you have to take into consideration competitive play which will ban equipment upgrades therefore not allowing them to make a "faster Marth"
Except the comparison between Mario and Bowser is way more drastic.I'm not treating it like melee or brawl. I gave you valid reasons why it would be banned and what the limitations are for it. If you would rather disregard my statements and wave it off as me trying to make the game play like Melee/Brawl 2.0 then fine. I have nothing more to say if your not going to even attempt to address the flaws I addressed with allowing equipment customization in Tournament play.
Well it was stated that Lucina is shorter than Marth. I really hope that them will still have more differences between them, like Lucina being a little more quickly and maybe with different falling speed and weight.Except the comparison between Mario and Bowser is way more drastic.
Marth and Lucina don't even have a proven difference beyond the tipper.
And in terms of using customisations in the long run, a lot of TOs across these boards are intrigued by custom moves and are willing to try them in tournaments to see how it goes. So I don't see why you have a problem with it.
Custom moves, yes. I never had a problem with custom moves, I actually argued for them on these forums. Custom equipment is a completely different matter though.Except the comparison between Mario and Bowser is way more drastic.
Marth and Lucina don't even have a proven difference beyond the tipper.
And in terms of using customisations in the long run, a lot of TOs across these boards are intrigued by custom moves and are willing to try them in tournaments to see how it goes. So I don't see why you have a problem with it.
You misread that sentenceOh woah, as a league player I know base stats are very important for how strong or weak you can be later via customization. Yeah you can make Mario a tank with all out defense if you wanted to so he is tankier than Bowser but his base stats still matter for where that will take him.
Apparently he would rather ignore it and insult me instead. Oh well at least I got my point across.What about your Lucina with Speed Boots X is always going to be faster than Marth with Speed Boots X arguement?
Is that just going to be ignored 'cuz I thought it was pretty good...
I really don't want to bring back this argument, but Lucina wasn't initially planned to be a character.I haven't read what everyone else has said on this thread, but I'm putting my two cents in anyway, because Lucina's inclusion bothers me, especially after this interview.
Okay, to start off, I like Robin as a character, in fact I would say it was a better choice than Chrom (big supporter for him). There are a couple of things that are nonsensical reasons for adding his daughter.
1. Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Then what is Lucina going to bring to the table! A big argument people had against Lucina is that she'd play too similar to Marth. We also assumed that Sakurai was mostly done with clones (except Toon Link). If Sakurai wanted a more unique Fire Emblem rep, he should have just added Robin. And, if he wanted another swordsman, why not Chrom? Sakurai said that he couldn't think of ANYTHING for Chrom to do different, yet he added Lucina. Pure laziness on his part.
2. Lucina will be much easier than Marth for novice players to play with. Marth was never really a hard character to begin with. I mean, yeah, the whole technique with the tip was hard to master, but I found myself not really worrying about that. Unless a novice player wants to become really good with Marth, he's not using the tip.
Also, I feel as though, while Lucina is important, she's not the main character. Marth, Ike and Roy all have that in common. Even Robin does, to a degrees. Lucina is basically a side protagonist. And, Sakurai made degraded Chrom way too much in that trailer. From having him near-death on the floor, to him saying "I'll get my chance another day", and to put the final nail in the coffin by making him a Final Smash.
Anyways, I hope at least some of you feel the same way, and I'd love to hear a response, but right now, I'm just kind of mad and disappointed with Sakurai.
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Once I read this I came to a quick realization.I don't see the problem here. For those who don't feel Lucina is really different at all, treat her as a alt. Those who do feel that she is different will treat her as a separate character. Even if the differences are even more minor than the melee clones that's fine. The asset for the alt was already done; so from the looks of it about a days work was put into making her unique. She took very little time to make so she's more of an additional prize. Even if the addition was pointless, it's still an addition none-the-less.
The only thing I would say I hope samurai does is to make Lucina's base special moves as Marth's alternate moves. This way, if custom moves are banned there will be some additional differences to the two.
People forget that Chrom was judged as a non-clone candidaate (read; Sakurai didn't want him to be a clone) and found him lacking, whereas Lucina wasn't judged as a non-clone candidate. Had the situation been reversed, we would have seen Chrom as a clone character and Lucina would have been left out due to her similarities to Marth.Every time someone says "Sakurai is contradicting himself by calling Chrom unoriginal and then including Lucina!", I die inside.![]()
Because he technically is, if we be literal here. And there really is no reason not to be.Every time someone says "Sakurai is contradicting himself by calling Chrom unoriginal and then including Lucina!", I die inside.![]()
Too bad everyone in this thread has constantly explained to you why the situations for each character are different.Because he technically is, if we be literal here. And there really is no reason not to be.
He really shouldn't have thrown in that comment about Chrom to begin with. He was asking for trouble. I'd have much less of a problem with his wording and the article as a whole if he didn't throw that one comment in.
Still wouldn't have any less of an issue with how lazy Lucina is as far as clones go.
Everyone would hate on Chrom and claim that Lucina would have been a more unique character and then Sakurai reveals her as a Marth alternate costume like he apparently planned to then.... yeah.....What if Chrom got in as a Wolfified Ike moveset-wise and Lucina didn't? Would there have been more hate going on for Chrom than Lucina?
I would share this view if Lucina weren't originally intended to be an alternate costume for Marth and if she weren't the obvious (and more appropriate) choice (rather than Chrom) for an alternate costume for Marth. These two points completely change how this should be viewed.Because he technically is, if we be literal here. And there really is no reason not to be.
He really shouldn't have thrown in that comment about Chrom to begin with. He was asking for trouble. I'd have much less of a problem with his wording and the article as a whole if he didn't throw that one comment in.
Still wouldn't have any less of an issue with how lazy Lucina is as far as clones go.
See, this right here is the problem - there is no reason why I should take "these two points", use them to view the character in a more positive light, and take it as gospel. Of course you'll take this to make the character more justified in your eyes, but you're just happy to see Lucina at all, so of course that's enough for you. I'm not in that situation. And I don't think her being originally intended to be an alt offsets the hypocrisy in including a generic sword user, and intentionally omitting/giving up on another, when he could have been a clone for Ike. Others can accept that as an excuse to make themselves happier, but since I have no bias here, I'm not ignoring that - it was a stupid thing for him to say.These two points completely change how this should be viewed.![]()
No, not to a large degree, to a barely noticeable degree. A lot of people are completely unaware of the tipper mechanic as is, especially those that aren't seriously competitive (since it's not exactly spelled out for you unless you look online for it), and even in competitive play, Marth's tipper is more of a tertiary element. This is you exaggerating how great Lucina currently is in Smash, again. It's fine if you like her and want to stay positive regarding her, and I'm not even demanding she be taken out. I simply think that as is, she seems very lazily implemented, and contrary to Sakurai's own ideals, as stated in his article. She may as well of stayed an alt, which technically would have made her a newer thing - as she is, she is just another clone. If she was an alt, she would be the first character change alt in the history of the series, which would be pretty cool and open the floodgates for all kinds of possibilities. Now, I fear Sakurai may have gone against this concept.also, keep in mind that the simple tipper removal will actually change how she's played to a large degree)
Way more hate for Chrom because he is NOTHING like Ike. In ANY way shape or form.What if Chrom got in as a Wolfified Ike moveset-wise and Lucina didn't? Would there have been more hate going on for Chrom than Lucina?
I don't understand why you don't want to take those 2 points and accept them. They are what happened and those circumstances change everything. Chrom has nothing unique, he doesn't look like any of the other characters or match their physique. Lucina DOES. That's why she WAS an alt costume. That's the ONLY reason she got a model designed for her. THEN Sakurai decided they wanted another character, however they didn't have time to create a unique moveset or model with animations for another character. So they went into their pool of alt character costumes and went to find the simplest one that they could find an easy mechanic to change that would impact the character. Lucina probably fit this bill the best and that's why she made it in.See, this right here is the problem - there is no reason why I should take "these two points", use them to view the character in a more positive light, and take it as gospel. Of course you'll take this to make the character more justified in your eyes, but you're just happy to see Lucina at all, so of course that's enough for you. I'm not in that situation. And I don't think her being originally intended to be an alt offsets the hypocrisy in including a generic sword user, and intentionally omitting/giving up on another, when he could have been a clone for Ike. Others can accept that as an excuse to make themselves happier, but since I have no bias here, I'm not ignoring that - it was a stupid thing for him to say.
No, not to a large degree, to a barely noticeable degree. A lot of people are completely unaware of the tipper mechanic as is, especially those that aren't seriously competitive (since it's not exactly spelled out for you unless you look online for it), and even in competitive play, Marth's tipper is more of a tertiary element. This is you exaggerating how great Lucina currently is in Smash, again. It's fine if you like her and want to stay positive regarding her, and I'm not even demanding she be taken out. I simply think that as is, she seems very lazily implemented, and contrary to Sakurai's own ideals, as stated in his article. She may as well of stayed an alt, which technically would have made her a newer thing - as she is, she is just another clone. If she was an alt, she would be the first character change alt in the history of the series, which would be pretty cool and open the floodgates for all kinds of possibilities. Now, I fear Sakurai may have gone against this concept.
Lucina's promotion to clone slot was just bias on Sakurai's part, or it was done simply to fill out the roster aesthetically (maybe there was an uneven row). There was no reason to promote her like that, her changes from Marth are minimal and arbitrarily forced. I'm willing to bet the omission of the tipper was just a little random thing they hastily came up with to give them an excuse to pad out that extra slot, and when they realised they didn't have time to do anything else.
To be fair, I can't factually state the degree to which the change will impact her playstyle, but I can state that the fact that her blade has altered properties means that every one of her moves will have different knockback, damage, kill percentages, combo potential, etc. It might not be prominent to casual players or players who rarely use her, but to people that are familiar with Marth and to people that play her and Marth in Smash 4, it will be very noticeable.No, not to a large degree, to a barely noticeable degree.
Chrom as a costume for Ike, while possible, does not make nearly as much sense as Lucina being a costume for Marth. This is not me being biased; this is something that has been discussed pretty heavily and that is backed up by canon. Chrom not being included and Lucina being included in the way that she was does not make Sakurai's statement contradictory. I've given my reasoning for this and I believe it to be perfectly sound.and intentionally omitting/giving up on another, when he could have been a clone for Ike
pls understand also being a clone is why snake is gone no more clones guysMewtwo isn't a clone, though.
I don't mind clones. I don't know why anyone would be bothered by their presence as long as they are a limited bunch of characters. If we have, say, 3-4 clones in a roster of 47-50+ then whatever. There would still be over 40 unique characters and their easy to program nature means they don't take much time away from the developers so it's not a big deal. As long as the clones have a reason to be in (Lucina is a popular character in arguably the most popular Fire Emblem game) I see no reasons for concern from my perspective.
WELL, TECHNICALLY SPEAKING...Mewtwo isn't a clone, though.
I prefer the outcome that happened.Everyone would hate on Chrom and claim that Lucina would have been a more unique character and then Sakurai reveals her as a Marth alternate costume like he apparently planned to then.... yeah.....
Oh well... I think we kinda dragged this on longer than it should but yeah...
Except Sonic is third party.... so relegated to the lonely 1 spot syndrome.I want a Sonic clone....Metal Sonic?
Metal is like Lucina imitating(or programmed to imitate) the main character. Right? Right?![]()
Why would they have made Chrom a clone of Ike when he's a similar size to Marth, is descended from Marth and uses the same sword as Marth? Wouldn't he be much more likely to be a clone of Marth than Ike?when he could have been a clone for Ike.
^ Basically, this.Even though Im more or less neutral on whether it should be Lucina Or Chrom (I prefer Robin much much more than either) what I dont get is why he says that chrom would just be another "plain old sword wielder" isn't Lucina the exact same?
No, that's not right at all. Read Frost's post that I'm about to quote below: it sums it up perfectly. If it doesn't make sense after reading this, then I don't know what will make sense to you.^ Basically, this.
I guess the real reasoning would be because he wanted another female fighter, which is fine. I'd say she's also a little easier to differentiate from Marth than Chrom is, appearance wise. But yeah, it makes no sense for him not to include Chrom because he's a "plain old sword wielder" when Lucina is so much like Marth.
I really don't want to bring back this argument, but Lucina wasn't initially planned to be a character.
Sakurai chose between Chrom and Robin for a new Fire Emblem character. Robin was decided since he would bring something new to the roster. At the first glance, Chrom wouldn't seem different from Marth and Ike, even if he had a new and unique moveset. Lucina was only meant to be a skin for Marth, replacing the model, displayed name and voice clips. In other words, a bonus.
During development, however, the assets created for Lucina as a Marth alt were made into a tweaked moveset and, given Sakurai's philosophy in which a slight moveset change would mean a separate slot, she got her own roster slot. That's why she was labelled as a "lucky newcomer" by Sakurai.
It was a change of plans during development that wasn't much of an hassle to implement given they already had her model and animations done, most of which likely were imported from Marth, since their models share the same body proportions and structure.
Game development has its quirks like this. Had this change of plans not happened, Lucina would have just been an alt for Marth. Chrom wouldn't have been playable regardless of Lucina's role, since by the time Lucina was made into a separate character, Robin had already been chosen to be a character instead of Chrom.
There's no contradiction on Sakurai's statements unlike what it seems at first. The circumstances surrounding Lucina's inclusion are entirely different than those around Chrom's exclusion and Robin's inclusion.
Unnecessary second sentence.No, that's not right at all. Read Frost's post that I'm about to quote below: it sums it up perfectly. If it doesn't make sense after reading this, then I don't know what will make sense to you.
Why would they have made Chrom a clone of Ike when he's a similar size to Marth, is descended from Marth and uses the same sword as Marth? Wouldn't he be much more likely to be a clone of Marth than Ike?
What do they have to do with anything? Chrom is a similar size to Marth, is descended from Marth and uses the same sword as Marth. Why would they make him a Ike clone over a Marth clone? Or is Lucina already a Marth clone in this hypothetical?