Tranquility - Game Over

[Kantrip]

@ #HBC | Laundry
@ #HBC | ѕoup
@ Kantrip

That's it for you with regards to Shen toDay?

Whoa this is the first tag that has actually worked for me.

Unless there's a CC, yes

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@ Kantrip
You've missed a question in 1341, if not the post itself.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@ #HBC | Laundry
@ #HBC | ѕoup
@ Kantrip

That's it for you with regards to Shen toDay?

I think it's likely he's legit. The risk of losing a cop is not enough even if he's likely to die or just claim Roleblock if he is scum.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

@ #HBC | Laundry
@ #HBC | ѕoup
@ Kantrip

That's it for you with regards to Shen toDay?

Unless someone wants to make the game easy, probably.

 

[Kantrip]

Motivation being not to ruffle feathers prematurely. And something specific helped you feel out the slot?

Not really, but people were insistent that I share the read and I did find a way to sort of put it into words.

Yes. My implied response is that my problem has nothing to do with questioning Ryu, and everything to do with the circumstances in which it was done. The latter is exactly how I've been phrasing my problem with Shen's shift on Ryu, and it's Shen who is asking the wrong question, intentionally so.


You've looked at my assertion from the wrong angle. Rather than the assertion being strange as an explanation for Shen's new approach, and therefore faulty, in reality this strange assertion is the only factor that can explain Shen's new approach. The reason cited by Dietz is public disagreement of hydra heads (hydra discog); he says now retroactively that the second Ryu read was his read differing from Rake's read, posted because he had just arrived to the thread to do so. But Dietz was already here prior to that Ryu read post, and could have "corrected" the read at that juncture. It's also baffling that this new read on Ryu was first put forth as the Shen slot's read on Ryu, then later said only to be Dietz's read.

Does their claim change any of this?

All I did was answer Yolo's question, "Why do I hate Laundry?" I can recognize aspects of a player's play that might influence another player's read without the necessity of those aspects having the same influence on my own read. And I certainly question a condemnation of my slot on the basis that my read should be a certain way, unless you find those aspects of Laundry's play that I pointed out to be scummy on his part, which isn't a read I've seen you express.


What prompted you to make this Shen/Nabe post?

Made the post because the interaction stood out to me and upon reading it I had a lot of questions

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

why do i just feel like there's a whole lotta nothin' coming from you then? Like, you keep posting comments and you keep talking in big long posts but I don't feel much in the way of an argument, nor a motive here. You've outlined scumreads (and townreads), you're completely capable of outlining why a person might think another is scum, yet you're not using any of that information to push a read. Why?

Thank you for affirming that I can, in fact, read and write posts.

I'm sitting on the data for a bit. As always, it's more comfortable than standing.

 

[Kantrip]

Thank you for affirming that I can, in fact, read and write posts.

I'm sitting on the data for a bit. As always, it's more comfortable than standing.

I'm confused. What exactly are you sitting on?

 

[Shenanigenius]

Vote: Shenanigenius

I haven't read yet but can we please get more votes on Nabe. He put us to L-1 without even stating a reason

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Does their claim change any of this?

It provides an alternate explanation to fit Dietz's actions. I'm just not sure that explanation wasn't crafted to fit the specific problem that I raised. If the claim had come before I'd said anything, I'd have no doubts. As it is, there doesn't seem to be much else to grab onto, because the claim only provides extra information in terms of the Laundry N2 report that's handled by the slot having been Pawn, and also potentially in conflicting play to the claim, which I haven't yet read for.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Vinyl. [0] - I can sum up his play with a single video.

He's kept on this, all game and really hasn't done anything. I've tried to help him out here and his posts about, "hey guys give me something to do" irks me to no end.

I think it is scummy how he hasn't done anything, but looking at it on a reread, well even more so with him not wanting his slot modkilled, I'm more willing to put him in the town pile. I hate his post where he says he thought d1 was crap, proving he did read it and isn't giving anything out. But idk here Im leaning more town with him.

Shenanigenius [0] - So now we gotta tinker on the idea he is the cop. If no one ccs an investigative it's fine, though now I gotta consider miller/godfather/talior is running around. I don't like how his read 180 on d2 if I was inno that looks weak. While after luigi's I'm less willing to give people wiggle room in a claim situation, I don't think lynching him without a cc is wise here. There is an investigative somewhere in the game and without a cc I don't wanna lynch him.

Red_Antoine [0] -

I'll finish the other 6 when I am off work.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I'm confused. What exactly are you sitting on?

A chair made out of data.

What I'm saying is that I'm thinking on the game for a bit, rather than externally figuring it out by throwing pasta to the wall. I've just recently absorbed the entire game and delivered my first vote to a soon-after cop claim; I need to digest.

 

[Kantrip]

A chair made out of data.

What I'm saying is that I'm thinking on the game for a bit, rather than externally figuring it out by throwing pasta to the wall. I've just recently absorbed the entire game and delivered my first vote to a soon-after cop claim; I need to digest.

Aw man, mine's only leather. Jealous.

Okay that makes sense thanks, I thought you meant you were sitting on your reads but you had already outed them so I wasn't sure what you were getting at.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Nabe, answer my #1377 plz.

Are you saying it's unlike Rake to play like this as a PR?

Idk what's like or unlike Rake to play as a PR. The only times I remember playing with Rake at all he went as a hydra. Don't think I've actually played with him as a solo-slot, let alone as a solo-PR. But I thought that cop + Dietz head would cause him to be a bit less ... reckless. But the more I think about it the more I get to realize that it discredits my meta-assumption rather than his claim.

 

[YOLOSWAG]

i still wanna lynch shenani. i dont give a mother**** about his claim

if not give me nabe or vinyl (why the **** wouldnt you cop one of these slots?you went for RUY? just wow)

 

[Vinylic.]

I think I'll just put my thoughts on what I've read so no one thinks I'm making another bull**** post. I only asked for replacement, not destroying kary's game. So here's one of them.

I haven't read yet but can we please get more votes on Nabe. He put us to L-1 without even stating a reason

Voting without reason is bad, but voting with a bad/false reasoning is worse. I'd like to see some points regarding to this so that I may agree with you. If what you say and claim is true, you might be reliable source of connections, which is why I'm going to focus on you the most. My thoughts with yoloswag is giving me more irks, I still feel like he's putting a lot of aggression in them, so I'll be looking at it too.

I going to disregard all those short "vinyl must die" posts. They are the most meaningless to me.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

i still wanna lynch shenani. i dont give a mother**** about his claim

if not give me nabe or vinyl (why the **** wouldnt you cop one of these slots?you went for RUY? just wow)

I think Nabe has posted enough content by now that you will actually have to convince people with solid points. Most people - me included - will not just take it for granted anymore that he should be lynched.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@ #HBC | Nabe
@ YOLOSWAG

Earlier I have mentioned the feeling that Kantrip has been trying to lump a whole bunch of people with shenaniscum, namely you two and myself. Do you agree with that impression? If yes, how do you feel about that with shen's claim being out now? Any way to convince you guys that Potato should be the play toDay? If not, who else would you guys suggest lynching?

I've been skimming Potato toDay and can better respond to this after a fresh read of the Day in the morning.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

And then Vinyl shows up and actually plays. Is this real life?

 

[Vinylic.]

Please don't tempt me to sing bohemian rhapsody.

 

[YOLOSWAG]

I think Nabe has posted enough content by now that you will actually have to convince people with solid points. Most people - me included - will not just take it for granted anymore that he should be lynched.

never have before. wont be doing it now

do you hav a lynchpool?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

do you hav a lynchpool?

Kantrip, Kantrip and Kantrip.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Votecount 3:3

Vinyl. [0] -
Shenanigenius [2] - YOLOSWAG, Nabe
Red_Antoine [0] -
soup [0] -
Potassium [1] - Gheb_01
Gheb_01 [0] -
WashedLaundry [0] -
YOLOSWAG [0] -
Nabe [1] - Shenanigenius

Not voting [5] - Vinyl, Red_Antoine, soup, WashedLaundry, Potassium

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 11:59PM GMT, Thursday 16th January 2014

Previous Votecount - Next Votecount

I do not currently have a replacement for Vinyl., I am still looking for one.
As Vinyl is still posting, he won't be modkilled.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Seriously though, Kantrip is my #1 pick. Vinyl can still die and my 3rd pick would be between soup, you or Nabe depending on what you guys gonna post.

 

[Kantrip]

Kantrip, Kantrip and Kantrip.

Where did this even come from? Earlier in the Day you mentioned liking me more. Is this 100% because of how I lumped people together with my shean scumread? Because that's just how I play, I go by connections, but that doesn't mean all my scumreads hinged entirely on shenan being scum.

What is your read on shenan right now, after his claim?

I'm assuming it's town.

What, then, is the scum intent behind me calling a bunch of people scum with shenan, if I wanted to lynch him first? On his townflip all those reads would have dissolved anyways, so what exactly was my secret agenda? What was I trying to accomplish? You've failed to touch on this but I can't see how you could miss it when considering your read on me, which is why I don't buy into your scumread on me.

 

[Shenanigenius]

also why did you cop me n1? :/

Because if you're town you're never nightkilled early so we'd have a confirmed opinion to work with for a long time (and we selfishly wanted a bro)

 

[Shenanigenius]

Shenanigenius [0] - So now we gotta tinker on the idea he is the cop. If no one ccs an investigative it's fine, though now I gotta consider miller/godfather/talior is running around. I don't like how his read 180 on d2 if I was inno that looks weak. While after luigi's I'm less willing to give people wiggle room in a claim situation, I don't think lynching him without a cc is wise here. There is an investigative somewhere in the game and without a cc I don't wanna lynch him.

Lol. Well we had talked very briefly in our QT that we'd call you town in thread after our result, but when I came in I found Rake had taken a very un-subtle approach to it. The way he did it he was practically smooching on you in thread lol. I thought maybe I could even it out by stating what I thought we should have been logically questioning and getting you to respond and explain so thread could see what you were doing then give your responses a stamp of approval to make it more reasonable, but it came off super unnatural and thread hated it even more than the "it's meta" town read. In the end I think they just ended up hating both of our slots which was exactly the opposite of what we were trying for

It was what it was, but at least it'll be funny in post.

 

[Shenanigenius]

i still wanna lynch shenani. i dont give a mother**** about his claim

if not give me nabe or vinyl (why the **** wouldnt you cop one of these slots?you went for RUY? just wow)

And risk having our first night target vigged? No thanks, we'll stick to the people who will definitely still be around (that is until there deffo was no vig)

 

[YOLOSWAG]

i dont agree youre wrong etc

ima move my vote not cuz shenani still cant die but cuz i doubt ill convince yall to pull the trigger. just dont ****ing clear him in later phases you assholes

vote nabe

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I'll post when I get back from uni in a few...

...hours

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Thank you for affirming that I can, in fact, read and write posts.

I'm sitting on the data for a bit. As always, it's more comfortable than standing.

Why

you're a slot that has nothing to gain by sitting on anything at this point and letting you sit there is not at all something i'm content with doing at the moment.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

A chair made out of data.

What I'm saying is that I'm thinking on the game for a bit, rather than externally figuring it out by throwing pasta to the wall. I've just recently absorbed the entire game and delivered my first vote to a soon-after cop claim; I need to digest.

you have until the end of today nabe

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Nabe, answer my #1377 plz.



Idk what's like or unlike Rake to play as a PR. The only times I remember playing with Rake at all he went as a hydra. Don't think I've actually played with him as a solo-slot, let alone as a solo-PR. But I thought that cop + Dietz head would cause him to be a bit less ... reckless. But the more I think about it the more I get to realize that it discredits my meta-assumption rather than his claim.

KvK, then Luigi's. In both games, he drew some form of an investigative (revealed hidden portraits in Luigi's, was Tourney Cop in KvK). Both games, he played notoriously bad and was on nearly everyone's scumlist until he died from either getting shot (KvK) or getting lynched (Luigi's). This is completely in Rake's meta to do this kinda crap as he does it to avoid getting shot albeit it doesn't do him any favors during the lynch game.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

i still wanna lynch shenani. i dont give a mother**** about his claim

if not give me nabe or vinyl (why the **** wouldnt you cop one of these slots?you went for RUY? just wow)

here's the stereotypical "dgaf about his claim" marshy post

yet for some reason the timing of this just feels off. you come in late, with no cc from anyone else in the cast and a very good reason to accept that shen isn't lying (due to rake playing like this every time he draws a pr), just to say you'd lynch a cop with two clears at the moment. you aren't stupid, you know that rake does this **** because he did the exact same thing in luigi's mansion. why you're not taking that into account, simply to push some stupidly fallacious schtick, is beyond me, unless you're doing this to keep up appearances.

 

[YOLOSWAG]

are you ****ting me?

im going off play. NOT claims. strictly off the former shenani can still go. no cc doesnt mean ****. there might not be a cop and shenani just claimed cuz he knew ****** would go "HERP COP NO CC CLEAR" and a cop coupled with an inno child is actually strange to me

how is the timing off? i know ****** are gonna eat up the claim so instead of wasting my time ill just vote someone else im okay with dying. would you rather me have kept my vote there while everyone else loses their mind over a cop claim?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

My dislike of YOLO makes more sense if Shen is town. I mentioned how marshy is a consistent player and is hard to get a beat on, but he's not perfect. There are some instances where I feel he is very awkward with his reads and I worry about him. His standards so far don't make sense to me, and I feel like he is playing towards his image than actually scumhunting. If anyone else besides marshy would be playing the way he is, he would be under much more scrutiny. He's always claiming towards dislike of slots but the actions he actually takes against them isn't really to be seen. There were instances of JTB/Pawn/BSP but really there's a different vibe than the one that I get thinking about marshy from Luigi's. I feel like marshy is playing it safe, and he's not taking risks. I recalled his really weird statement in the beginning where he openly mentioned where he was town. It still gives me a bad vibe to think about, and while it's typical of marshy to boast, it just feels out of place.

I looked aside this because I wanted to believe the way marshy was playing was typical town for him, but in light of recent events, I can't ignore the possibility that I'm being fooled.

Alright, now I can get back to this.

I've been keeping an eye on Yolo all game and trying to see if my other head is right about how to read marshy. During our last run together, Drew kept telling me that in order to read marshy, you have to do it through his reads. marshy may make mistakes but marshy isn't stupid and so I wanted to see where his pushes were going and what he was doing with his time. The problem is, I can't wholly judge his pushes. BSP modkilled himself and so I can't tell if they're telling the truth when they say "yeh we thought he might've been town but he ragequit too fast". I quickhammered JTB but I still maintain that even if he showed up and claimed, he would've likely died from a result. His claim did nothing for him and his play was questionable enough that I don't think an accurate read could've been made (though I don't think he championed this lynch). As a result, I can't really blame him for this push because it was a crapshoot read and I doubt JTB would've been present enough to give us enough to change the wagon off of him. As a result, this route has been a dead end simply due to the fact that circumstances have created poor data.

My other idea has simply been to let the ground shrink around him. If he's town, he'll make it obvious and make the scum deal with him at some point or lose the game through inaccuracy. If he's scum, we'll run out of places to turn (this game has slowly been clearing other players to an extent) and realize he's been staring at us the whole time.

Between these, I can only come to the conclusion that he is "marshy+kevin" at the moment. There's no tell in his alignment--he hasn't done enough. His pushes aren't really pushes so much as they are null taps. I haven't seen something like the Ruy case he made in Luigi's (even if Gorf ultimately made it, marshy dropped it because he wanted to push that lynch down). I haven't seen something like his commitment to us after we bet the game on us and Circus (though I think that was him being pissed at Ryker rather than an actual read). Long story short, I don't remember an instance where marshy stuck his neck out. I don't like that. They're null on D3 and I don't like that. It's not normal, but that is the only flaw in their play I can find.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

are you ****ting me?

im going off play. NOT claims. strictly off the former shenani can still go. no cc doesnt mean ****. there might not be a cop and shenani just claimed cuz he knew *****s would go "HERP COP NO CC CLEAR" and a cop coupled with an inno child is actually strange to me

how is the timing off? i know *****s are gonna eat up the claim so instead of wasting my time ill just vote someone else im okay with dying. would you rather me have kept my vote there while everyone else loses their mind over a cop claim?

I had an iota of hope that you'd come off your tired, narrow-sighted schtick and actually evaluate all the information presented to you but I guess that's a pipe dream.

 

[YOLOSWAG]

ive lost games cuz townies failed to question cop claims. feel free to enlighten me as to what makes shenanis likelier for him to be town

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

And we just lost a game where Rake played like **** as a PR to the point where it eventually helped cost us the game.

But since you asked, let's play this game.

1. There's no ****ing CC of any kind from any kind of informative role. It's not so much a "There's no other cop CC", it's more of a "there's no tracker, no watcher, no nothing at all."
2. Given the theme of the game, there's a lot of reasons to suspect the cop to be in the flavor, including:
-simplicity of the roles (we've had an innocent child, a bodyguard, and vanillas flip, nothing at all that has multiple actions or modifiers or anything like mafia crazy joat roleblocker")
-the other roles suggest the cop. we had a bodyguard, not a doc, flip, and i'm going to assume a doctor is not present in this game as a result. we've had an innocent child which is, for all intents and purposes, the anti-miller. this actually makes me think there are roles in this game meant to mess with the cop's information.
3. It's not just what the role is, it's also who has it. Rake has played like this as a PR for three straight games now. It's a ****ty way to play the game but it fits right in with his meta and creates very specific, albeit somewhat convenient, answers to his poor play.

No one's saying they won't reconsider down the road. No one's saying that he is 100% confirmed cop, no way will he be looked at again, everything he says is the word of God. Not only that, that is putting far too little faith into players like myself, Gheb, Soup, or Ruy, who have been burnt by that **** in the past and will likely re-evaluate to see if that player is scum later down the road as the game becomes more clear and the player list narrows.

I can understand why you don't want to be burned by scum claiming a cop and no one else looking at him again, but I'm tired of getting burnt by Rake's ****ty play as a PR and losing games for it. We're not lynching him. Not today at least.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Marshy I said this at the end of Luigi's.

There is a time and a place where you are right and we should question claims. Like with Dabuz where everyone bought his doc claim. But then you get situations like scary in GES4 or Sokr d1 Luigi's.

You throw out the later, though to be fair. I'm wondering if I am inno why they played the 180 with me, that still is odd.

Still I dislike how you have been playing as of recent. Your still willing to lunch the entire cast minus maybe gheb.

 

[YOLOSWAG]

>narrows lynchpool to 3

>"youre willing to lynch the entire cast"

ruy2014