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Data Tracking the Ninja - Greninja Video Thread

momochuu

Smash Legend
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on the actual stream i could have sworn i also saw him use the そめ tag. weird.

also you can't watch most of amsa and lea's stuff on nico since most are stream archives. you need a premium account to watch any stream archive and they rarely upload anything else.
 

DrizzyDrew

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You should try getting into gimping with bair, it's really great and it spooks people so even if you don't get the gimp they'll still be shaken a bit.
I try doing back air off the stage to get the stage spike all the time...never found a good time to do it in these matches I suppose
 

Xiao-Xiao

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Even if you don't have have a premium account you can Still use a free account to watch it when it's live. They stream pretty often and usually post when they are live on their twitter or whatever.
 

FullMoon

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The funny thing is the commentators still call Greninja "Greninja" instead of Greninja's French name, Amphinobi.
I know people from Quebec for the most part don't like the French name of the Pokémon and much prefer the English names. I don't know if that applies only to the French speaking Canadians or to French people in general though.
 

Makani

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I try doing back air off the stage to get the stage spike all the time...never found a good time to do it in these matches I suppose
If you grab near the edge just pummel into a grab release, generally people will go below stage and if they don't SD themselves you could run-off bair spike or even hydro gimp. If you're feeling particularly ballsy you can try for a dair spike, but I don't recommend it.
 

Ludiloco

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Hey guys, missed my videos? I bet you didn't:

Me vs Koozy (Pikachu) (Wi-Fi)
I like your Ninja, I just have a few small suggestions:

I think you should use your short hop more and your full hop less, it is a bit less useful against a small target like Pikachu but retreating fair and bair in neutral are just so valuable. As well as SH FF Nair.

I also noticed you tend to jump right out of being hit, and land right into your opponent. Sometimes it's hard to notice during a match where you're focused, but using your jump immediately offstage is kinda bad even with our recovery. Just another maneuvering tool and you should hold onto it as long as you can. Also prevents you from being gimped. Landing right into your opponent is also very risky, I noticed you took a lot of damage just from doing that alone. Just be patient and land safely, it'll play into your favor more often than not.

Other than that, I think your usage of the character is very creative. I like your use of Shadow Sneak out of downthrow and a few other things I haven't seen before, and your counter on the skull bash was super nice, I wouldn't have thought to do that.
 

FullMoon

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Most of the time I full hop instead of short hop is because of the input lag making the latter the former rather than really being my fault.

The thing about not saving my double jump is valid though, it's a bad habit that I need to stop doing.
 

DrizzyDrew

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If you grab near the edge just pummel into a grab release, generally people will go below stage and if they don't SD themselves you could run-off bair spike or even hydro gimp. If you're feeling particularly ballsy you can try for a dair spike, but I don't recommend it.
i think i pulled off one dair spike, but yea i do that alot when i grab near the edge. People are getting more used to not SDing, but I will try a bair follow up!
 

Eji1700

Smash Apprentice
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Hey guys, missed my videos? I bet you didn't:

Me vs Koozy (Pikachu) (Wi-Fi)
Any particular reason you don't go for off the top kills? You get a couple of up throws at the end there that looked like a proper up angled upB would've killed. Might miss, but in my experience it's pretty hard to punish.

In fact in general I noticed you wait out the up throw rather than chase. Any particular reason?
 

FullMoon

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Any particular reason you don't go for off the top kills? You get a couple of up throws at the end there that looked like a proper up angled upB would've killed. Might miss, but in my experience it's pretty hard to punish.

In fact in general I noticed you wait out the up throw rather than chase. Any particular reason?
I never really try to get up-b kills vertically because from my experience it never kills.

Also air dodge baits, see 2:20 for an example.
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
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Thanks for posting, that is a VERY impressive Ninja.
It would help more if someone could translate it since there are some Sonic videos with "KEN" in the title. There are top players out there that we don't know about.

Edit: From Come on and Ban #12, Rice using Greninja again and Triple D too! Rice vs. Scourge's Bowser and Robin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OQmZr0YZZY.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest

Sup everyone? Here's me playing against one of my most difficult (imo) matchups. Can I get some feedback on what I can improve on and should do more? This is my first competitive smash game and I know I'm awful, so don't be afraid to be mean! :happysheep:
 

Lavani

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Sup everyone? Here's me playing against one of my most difficult (imo) matchups. Can I get some feedback on what I can improve on and should do more? This is my first competitive smash game and I know I'm awful, so don't be afraid to be mean! :happysheep:
The main thing that sticks out to me is how much you go for smash attacks, particularly at percents where fsmash/dsmash aren't going to kill. You weren't really getting punished at all for it, but those attacks are far from safe. Dtilt and jab in particular are moves you could be using much more often that are a lot safer, can lead to bigger damage with strings/combos, and don't stale your kill moves for later in the stock when you need them. Sh nair/fair are good too, particularly the former for starting combos. I'll also add that Greninja's pivot grab is really good - slower to start than his dash grab noticeably, but its range is massive and he slides a ton. In situations like 3:20 it'd be something to consider using.

I'm sure you realize it by now, but just in case: usmash isn't going to connect properly against opponents standing on a platform above you, because the first hit will cause knockdown before the second hit connects. Utilt or sh uair are better for this purpose...though I'm unsure if utilt can hit Lylat's platforms.

Less of an issue, but I feel like you feel obligated to roll. I say "less of an issue" because you don't seem to do it much when you're actually engaging your opponent and instead favoring better options like dash to shield (with good spacing, I might add!), but at times like 1:25 where you're across the stage from him and he can't do anything to you, you commit to a roll to move away anyway. Honestly this is something I'd just recommend to everyone, but getting used to the idea of empty movement is a good thing. Pressing buttons means locking yourself into actions, but if you're free to act you can do what you need to, when you need to.

Lastly, a modicum of MU knowledge: Shulk's counter is unblockable, you need to condition yourself to spotdodge or roll instead of shield when it activates.

___________________________


Despite all that text, I get the feeling you have a good understanding of how the character works and should be played, and maybe are just doing things because opponents have let you get away with them. My advice really just boils down to "Don't throw out unsafe moves needlessly and don't press buttons when you don't need to", other than that you're on the right track :happysheep:

Isn't Greninja at a type disadvantage, here? :p
I mean, if we really want to get into this...Greninja outspeeds Lucario, resists Bullet Punch and can survive Extreme Speed, and can OHKO with Hydro Pump, Low Kick, and Hidden Power Fire.

Also Protean cares not about what type he starts as. :smirk:
 
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Ludiloco

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Sup everyone? Here's me playing against one of my most difficult (imo) matchups. Can I get some feedback on what I can improve on and should do more? This is my first competitive smash game and I know I'm awful, so don't be afraid to be mean! :happysheep:
I think you missed a lot of opportunities to edge guard Shulk. Greninja is a master of the edge guard, and especially on a stage like Lylat where Ninja has a lot of safe platforms to hydro pump to (very nice using them for that, by the way) you could've tried dropping behind the Shulk player and using B-air to stage spike him, or simply using Hydro Pump on his air slash to push him away and either getting a free follow-up or gimping him completely. As a result, the match went on longer than it should've and you were in danger of losing.

Shulk's air slash is also very punishable against a player who doesn't know how to sweet spot the ledge with it or is just too greedy throwing the hit boxes out (couldn't tell with your opponent). A well placed f-tilt will make short work of Shulks who dare pop above the ledge to try to hit you.

Mostly just listen to what Lavani had to say and also go for edge guards! Greninja is one of the best in the game at it, don't be afraid when you have a recovery like he does.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
I think you missed a lot of opportunities to edge guard Shulk. Greninja is a master of the edge guard, and especially on a stage like Lylat where Ninja has a lot of safe platforms to hydro pump to (very nice using them for that, by the way) you could've tried dropping behind the Shulk player and using B-air to stage spike him, or simply using Hydro Pump on his air slash to push him away and either getting a free follow-up or gimping him completely. As a result, the match went on longer than it should've and you were in danger of losing.

Shulk's air slash is also very punishable against a player who doesn't know how to sweet spot the ledge with it or is just too greedy throwing the hit boxes out (couldn't tell with your opponent). A well placed f-tilt will make short work of Shulks who dare pop above the ledge to try to hit you.

Mostly just listen to what Lavani had to say and also go for edge guards! Greninja is one of the best in the game at it, don't be afraid when you have a recovery like he does.
I actually am the kind to go out there and ledge guard my opponent, but I'll never attempt it on a stage like Lylat because of how the stage tilts throughout the match. Thanks for the tips though @ Lavani Lavani and @ Ludiloco Ludiloco , I'll put up another video soon where I try to incorporate your suggestions. :)
 

Ludiloco

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I actually am the kind to go out there and ledge guard my opponent, but I'll never attempt it on a stage like Lylat because of how the stage tilts throughout the match. Thanks for the tips though @ Lavani Lavani and @ Ludiloco Ludiloco , I'll put up another video soon where I try to incorporate your suggestions. :)
Lylat really isn't that bad at all for edge guarding with Ninja, you just have to be wary of trying to sweet spot that ledge. You're more likely safer using your jump after your edge guard attempt, and recovering high with Hydro Pump onto a platform. As long as you're not facing a super fast character you most likely can't be punished for doing it. Something I also like to do is Hydro Pump towards my opponent and then drop down at midrange in front of them (when I'm knocked off stage and the opponent is holding it). They will probably try to punish you but mixing up your landing will keep them guessing and (most likely) whiffing.

Just uploaded this, some hydro pump fun online
 
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Xiao-Xiao

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I don't know who's playing; I can't read Japanese. From SHI-G, Greninja vs. Lucario: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyJ58YbD0NE. Isn't Greninja at a type disadvantage, here? :p

Some's Greninja vs. Rain's Diddy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dphTxSJuzk8.

Some vs. (C)'s Fox: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORVRn-qHkXw.

aMSa's Greninja vs. Otomo's Sonic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV35pQQA6Co.
Its Lea's greninja vs Gomamugicha Lucario. These videos are super old idk why someone didn't post sooner

EDIT : wait...all but two of these were already posted in here lol.
 
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BlueTerrorist

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So I have more vids of my Greninja at a tournament. (Note: Customs were allowed)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MLQ_bo8vTw&list=PLz7rkkbQbM0kOplfI7sG0U0UsBoKYvnMt&index=10 Vs. Samus/Marth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNc4CMktlx4&index=11&list=PLz7rkkbQbM0kOplfI7sG0U0UsBoKYvnMt Vs Megaman (1st round only)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrjjItvTSbk&index=13&list=PLz7rkkbQbM0kOplfI7sG0U0UsBoKYvnMt Vs Duck Hunt (1-3 rounds only)

Losers Finals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl5IJVnPc0Y&index=16&list=PLz7rkkbQbM0kOplfI7sG0U0UsBoKYvnMt Vs Ike/Diddy (1st-2nd round only)

Some places I switched to Sonic but I was primarily Greninja for the whole tournament.
 

Funkermonster

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A game I had on stream right here with customs against a real good Shulk player, probably the best one in my state. Since my game was taken from me two weeks ago from my mom I never got much time to practice before yesterday and I was real sloppy, and there's a national happening near me in two so its kind of important. Sadly, this was the only game I managed to win and I didn't get as far in the tournament as I usually do, and I switched to :4pacman: afterwards because of how close that game was, I barely won it! Considering how a national is almost here, I find critique more important now than ever.

I had Shifting Suriken and Exploding Attack (and I still have trouble utilizing both customs), my opponent had Hyper Monado Arts and Power Counter. Game starts at 3:26:15 http://www.twitch.tv/gamingzoneaz/b/645814173

Hopefully I'll get my game back this weekend and record more videos to upload, but for now this all I could get. You can still watch the Pac-Man part to help me with non-Greninja-speficifc stuff too.
 
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Jaguar360

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I haven't gotten around to watching a lot of the more recent videos in this thread, but I'd like to share a really close match I had on Smashladder last night versus a Sheik. It was the last of the 3 matches in the set and he counterpicked Sheik after I chose Greninja.
 

BlueTerrorist

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Deplorable

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Wow, the first thread I saw on this site and like it already. Though I might just be biased toward the frog ninja.
 

MarianoARG

Smash Rookie
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Nov 10, 2014
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Hey everyone, I hadn't been checking smashboards lately, but I made a few videos showing KOs and setups with Greninja's UpB, hope you like them :D These are the last two:



I now checked a few of your videos and should certainly start coming here more.
 
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