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Data Tracking the Ninja - Greninja Video Thread

Jaguar360

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I hope to get a Wii U for my birthday and Smash will be the second game I get on it after MK8.
I was really caught off guard by that Farore's lol. That is a crapton of power. I agree about U-smash being Zelda's worst move. At least it's not too bad on bigger characters though.
 

Mocha

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It's like they combined all the power from Zelda's smashes in Brawl and put them into her Up B kill power. Tbh I miss her Brawl smashes, and would gladly trade "Ferrari's Wind" back for them. Zelda having a strong recovery in this game is kind of redundant, since the ledge mechanics of this game has changed and she no longer has to worry about being edgehogged.

On a different note, I checked out Amsa's stream that @PadWarrior linked, and after watching the first couple of matches vs Sheik, I have to say... this MU looks very frustrating for Greninja. I'm not sure how well known that Sheik is, but the amount of work I saw Amsa put was astounding, and seeing Sheik shut down his options so easily made me cringe. It makes me worried what it'll be like once Sheik's meta develops even further, but hopefully ours will as well.
 
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MartinAW4

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It's like they combined all the power from Zelda's smashes in Brawl and put them into her Up B kill power. Tbh I miss her Brawl smashes, and would gladly trade "Ferrari's Wind" back for them. Zelda having a strong recovery in this game is kind of redundant, since the ledge mechanics of this game has changed and she no longer has to worry about being edgehogged.

On a different note, I checked out Amsa's stream that @PadWarrior linked, and after watching the first couple of matches vs Sheik, I have to say... this MU looks very frustrating for Greninja. I'm not sure how well known that Sheik is, but the amount of work I saw Amsa put was astounding, and seeing Sheik shut down his options so easily made me cringe. It makes me worried what it'll be like once Sheik's meta develops even further, but hopefully ours will as well.
I don`t know, the Sheik matches were actually pretty close most of the time, at least closer than I expected and he even won the first one. What surprised me much more was how much he struggled against Lucina who I considered one of Greninja`s easiest matchups before watching the stream.

But it might have been caused by a difference in player skill more than character matchup. aMSa mentioned that his opponent was one of the best Marth players in Japan, which would explain why he managed to do so well with Lucina. And actually most of the matches were consistently slightly in his favor regardless of the character he used, so he`s just probably an overall better Smash 4 player than aMSa. Even though aMSa`s tech skill was probably better (he was teaching his opponent how to perfect pivot and he had more impressive tricks). But because of how difficult and risky those tricks were, they sometimes lead to mistakes or SD`s which usually cost him the match when his opponent played so safely and consistently using moves that gave similar reward for much less work and risk.

This just shows us how high the skill ceiling for Greninja really is when even players like aMSa haven`t mastered him yet.
 

Lavani

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Even though aMSa`s tech skill was probably better (he was teaching his opponent how to perfect pivot and he had more impressive tricks).
If I'm not mistaken, his opponent's actually the one that discovered perfect pivoting in Japan and it's even named after him over there (TANIステ). I don't think aMSa was teaching him about it lol

I was amazed by TANI's Lucina play though. Granted aMSa SD'd a lot in those practice sets, but even some matches he didn't SD in he was beaten rather soundly.
 

Mocha

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I don`t know, the Sheik matches were actually pretty close most of the time, at least closer than I expected and he even won the first one. What surprised me much more was how much he struggled against Lucina who I considered one of Greninja`s easiest matchups before watching the stream.

But it might have been caused by a difference in player skill more than character matchup. aMSa mentioned that his opponent was one of the best Marth players in Japan, which would explain why he managed to do so well with Lucina. And actually most of the matches were consistently slightly in his favor regardless of the character he used, so he`s just probably an overall better Smash 4 player than aMSa. Even though aMSa`s tech skill was probably better (he was teaching his opponent how to perfect pivot and he had more impressive tricks). But because of how difficult and risky those tricks were, they sometimes lead to mistakes or SD`s which usually cost him the match when his opponent played so safely and consistently using moves that gave similar reward for much less work and risk.
The matches seemed close initially, but it's possible that Amsa might have started choking a bit throughout the matches, given his increasing amount of SDs and risky gameplay. I have to admire him for trying to adapt though, switching between aggro, defensive, more usage of -insert move here-, less usage of it, etc. It seemed like he was experimenting with all kinds of playstyles, but it made it trickier for him to adapt because the other player kept switching characters.

Something I noticed about his opponent is that he rolled back once.... a lot more than it would seem, whenever he whiffed a move or forced Amsa to commit to something, and stay just within his range to punish him. I'm not sure if Amsa picked up on this or not, but it seemed very hard to punish if he did, and I think 'rolling' in itself should be implemented more in our gameplay, as much as I hate doing it. Coming from the Brawl era, where we are conditioned not to roll, it's very difficult for me to adapt to Smash 4's encouragement of it.

SDs aside, Amsa's usage of Hydro Pump recovery was amazing, especially the times where he makes such tight inputs to have him 'safe' at the edge, and push his opponent away to give him some space.


This just shows us how high the skill ceiling for Greninja really is when even players like aMSa haven`t mastered him yet.
I 100% agree with this.
 
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MartinAW4

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If I'm not mistaken, his opponent's actually the one that discovered perfect pivoting in Japan and it's even named after him over there (TANIステ). I don't think aMSa was teaching him about it lol

I was amazed by TANI's Lucina play though. Granted aMSa SD'd a lot in those practice sets, but even some matches he didn't SD in he was beaten rather soundly.
Wow, really? I don`t speak japanese, so I wasn`t sure, but at the end when they weren`t fighting anymore, aMSa was performing a lot of Perfect Pivots and it seemed that TANI was trying to immitate him without much success, so it seemed like aMSa was teaching him how to PP.
But then again having discovered something doesn`t always mean that you can do it consistently, so maybe he really was trying to learn how to PP better. At least I don`t remember him using PP at all during their matches while aMSa occasionally did.

@ Mocha Mocha
I agree that having to face a different character every 2-3 matches while he stayed Greninja the whole time was a disadvantage for him. Especially since Greninja is a character with a lot of tricks that only work once or twice as long as the opponent doesn`t expect them, but once they adapt, they become much less effective. I`ve noticed this even in my own matches on For Glory when I usually win the first match, but if I`m facing a good opponent, I have much more trouble in the following matches.

Yeah, rolls can be very hard to punish in this game if you don`t become predictable with them. And Greninja has one of the longest rolls in the game, so it can be used to escape from danger very effectively.

The Hydro Pump tricks were exactly what I meant with risky tricks. The angles he chose to recover at were so precise that missing them even slightly would lead to an SD. But I loved the way he recovered to the ledge by first going horizontally off stage to push the opponent away and then coming back diagonally to sweetspot the ledge and get on stage safely.
 

Marilink

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Mocha

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All right, some more videos were uploaded from the U of M Monthly. This should be the last of them.

Friendlies vs. Denlock (Villager)
Winners Round 3 vs. Coast (Robin, Villager)
Losers Finals vs. Triple R (Kirby)

That's all that got recorded! I'm really proud of my Game 1 finisher against Triple R, but I got outplayed for the rest of that set. (And the ending of Game 2 is Jank Incarnate)

edit: Again, feedback is encouraged. I wanna win the next one!
Gonna try to keep my posts from being chapter-length, cause I don't think everyone appreciates that ^^;

Friendlies vs. Denlock (Villager). I said this before, but keep it up with the back air pressure - I saw you do at least 3 strings in a row at one point. In game 2, that was a very unfortunate rocket gimp on you, and you almost brought it back too. Game 3, Villager's down air is obnoxious, and it seems like an annoying trade for Greninja's up air. I still haven't wrapped it in my mind that Villager's down air can kill. Great upsmash punish at the end.

Winners Round 3 vs. Coast (Robin, Villager): Ouch, that looked tough for Robin, good stuff. Loved that sneaky spell tome kill you got on him, bet he was pretty confused for a moment (I remember you bringing this gif of it the other day, it's glorious). Also, lots of Villager, eh? You're going to become beast at this MU at this rate, lol.

Losers Finals vs. Triple R (Kirby): What in the world happened to Kirby's last stock, game 1? o.o Also, is Kirby's dair really that good? He was able to do a number of follow-ups from it.

Ah, here is my match with a Captain Falcon. Managed to get on a VGBC stream at a tournament.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk75R9yR3iU
Game 1: From the moment I saw Battlefield + Captain Falcon, I already knew this was going to be a headache for you. Falcon can juggle you with up air, and the platforms make it all the more easier for him. I liked some of your down tilt follow-ups, such as d-tilt to f-smash at earlyish percentage. But the smashes... Greninja's smashes are so laggy, that we either try them from some hard read follow-up or some upsmash pressure under the platforms, as MariLink has demonstrated in a couple of his matches. Hm, it seemed to me that the Captain Falcon was kind of baiting you to do something a number of times, and punished you for it, but keeping an up-close pressure on you so that you have a hard time catching your breath. Don't be afraid to run away more and reset yourself.

Game 2: You know, watching this makes me see some potential in this stage for Greninja. I never really thought about Halberd before, but the low-ish ceiling, especially on the upper platform, would def be nice to help us with some earlier vertical kills. Your spacing was better here, and you were hitting him more consistently. All I can really say is to watch your down airs, but I think you caught on to that.

Game 3: That stupid game 'glitch' where Greninja's Up B can bounce off the edge really needs to be fixed. That might have even cost you the game. Also, I do notice this seems to happen more on SV compared to other stages, but that could just be me?

*sigh* Here I thought my post wasn't going to be long this time, but nope.
 
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Marilink

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^At the end of Game 1, I was able to Hydro Pump him vertically while he was going into Rock Form off-screen. It pushed him just enough to get him off the ceiling blast zone.

Yes, Kirby's Dair is really that good. If it's tech-able, I have not figured out the timing yet; and it cancels into Dsmash, Utilt, or Grab. I have not quite discovered how to best defend that move, but I hope to play Triple R on Wifi some more before the next tourney. (If you don't know who he is, he's actually a well-renowned Kirby main from Melee, probably the best Melee Kirby out there. His playstyle is so dependent on reads and spacing that he carries over those incredibly important skills into Smash 4, as you can see by his amazing option coverage when we play.)
 
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Mocha

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I'm going to reorganize all our Greninja videos from so far and see if I can get our front page updated. That way the videos will be in easy access, and we won't have to sort out through pages to find a particular video. I'll post the layout I had in mind here if you guys want to take a look.
 
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Mocha

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Alright Greninjas, here is what I have so far for our original post. I still have 5 pages left of videos to review, so I'm not done, and it's a work in process. Let me know what you think of this format, and if you have any suggestions to make it better.

I have divided each character into offline and online, as well as Wii U and 3DS (those images were the courtesy of the Duck Hunt board).

I wanted to make a separate post for Doubles and a separate for Guide/AT's/Other, but I don't think that will be possible in this thread due to the fact that the second and third posts of this thread are already taken. Also, let me know if you guys think removing the spoiler tags might look better.

Singles
:4bowser:
Offline

Online

:4bowserjr:

:4falcon:
:4charizard:

Offline

Online

:4darkpit:
Offline

Online

:4dedede:

:4diddy:

:4dk:
Offline

Online

:4drmario:
Offline

Online

:4duckhunt:

:4falco:

:4fox:

:4ganondorf:
Offline

Online

:4gaw:
Offline

Online

:4greninja:
Offline

Online

:4myfriends:

:4jigglypuff:
Offline

Online

:4kirby:

:4littlemac:
Offline

Online

:4link:
Offline

Online

:4lucario:
Offline

Online

:4lucina:

:4luigi:

:4mario:

:4marth:
Offline

Online

:4megaman:
Offline

Online

:4metaknight:

:4mii:
Offline

Online

:4ness:

:4olimar:

:4palutena:
Offline

Online

:4pacman:
Offline

Online

:4peach:

:4pikachu:
Offline

Online

:4pit:
Offline

Online

:4rob:
Offline

Online

:4robinm:
:rosalina:
:4samus:


:4sheik:
Offline

Online

:4shulk:

:4sonic:

:4tlink:
Offline

Online

:4villager:

:4wario:
Offline

Online

:4wiifit:
Offline

Online

:4yoshi:
Offline

Online

:4zelda:

:4zss:
 
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Mocha

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Thanks Marilink. I added a Doubles and Guides/Advanced Techniques/Other section as well. Will update this as I go. Let me know if you guys encounter any broken links or mistakes, or what you would like to see.

@ DrizzyDrew DrizzyDrew when adding your videos, I put your name as your SWF name, so let me know if that works for you :] I also went through each different character you fought in your videos and linked them to when they start in the video to make it easier to go directly to that character in the vid.
 
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DrizzyDrew

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Thanks Marilink. I added a Doubles and Guides/Advanced Techniques/Other section as well. Will update this as I go. Let me know if you guys encounter any broken links or mistakes, or what you would like to see.

@ DrizzyDrew DrizzyDrew when adding your videos, I put your name as your SWF name, so let me know if that works for you :] I also went through each different character you fought in your videos and linked them to when they start in the video to make it easier to go directly to that character in the vid.
wow dude thats awesome thanks for doing this. So if i have future videos how should i put them here?
 

Spirst

 
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@ Mocha Mocha

Using moderator magic, I have given you the 2nd and 3rd posts of this thread without disrupting any of the others following it. Feel free to organize doubles/AT things into the remaining two posts now. Enjoy.

Also, for ease of visibility, definitely keep the spoilers. It gives the user the ability to simply gloss over things they don't want to see rather than being forced to scroll through content.
 
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Shack

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Alright Greninjas, here is what I have so far for our original post. I still have 5 pages left of videos to review, so I'm not done, and it's a work in process. Let me know what you think of this format, and if you have any suggestions to make it better.

I have divided each character into offline and online, as well as Wii U and 3DS (those images were the courtesy of the Duck Hunt board).

I wanted to make a separate post for Doubles and a separate for Guide/AT's/Other, but I don't think that will be possible in this thread due to the fact that the second and third posts of this thread are already taken. Also, let me know if you guys think removing the spoiler tags might look better.
[/spoiler]​


Is there another way to organize this list so that we can look up certain players without having to open all of the spoiler tabs? Personally I'd rather have a section with the top players versus having to go through videos of random people to try and find something good. I guess a good way to gather vids for that section would be videos that receive a lot of likes, praise, or are from the top well known players cough*aMSa*cough.

Also here are some more useful videos to have in this thread to show people what Greninja is capable of
https://vine.co/u/1135825187007569920/grid
https://vine.co/u/1128742237132709888/grid
 

Mocha

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Yeah, that's one of my gripes with the spoiler tags, because we can't really see if we're looking for a player in particular. I have two solutions for this so far. Let me know which one you guys think would be better.

1. I put the names of the players next to the character icon. So for example it would look something like this:

:4luigi:
Greninja players include: aMSa, Nietono
video links go here

2. I have a 'videos by player' option. I make a list of all the players, and put spoiler tags underneath each one with their video(s). This option would take a bit longer, but it would definitely help if you want to find a particular player.

Example:

Videos by Player

aMSa
video links go here
Nietono
video links go here
Marilink
video links go here
etc

@ Shack Shack A list of videos rated by likes/ratings doesn't sound bad. I will consider this. If you or anyone have any more suggestions, let me know.
 
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Lavani

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Kind of a ghetto way around it, but you can click Reply to quote the post and CTRL+F names in the BB code editor.
 

Shack

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Yeah, that's one of my gripes with the spoiler tags, because we can't really see if we're looking for a player in particular. I have two solutions for this so far. Let me know which one you guys think would be better.

1. I put the names of the players next to the character icon. So for example it would look something like this:

:4luigi:
Greninja players include: aMSa, Nietono
video links go here

2. I have a 'videos by player' option. I make a list of all the players, and put spoiler tags underneath each one with their video(s). This option would take a bit longer, but it would definitely help if you want to find a particular player.

Example:

Videos by Player

aMSa
video links go here
Nietono
video links go here
Marilink
video links go here
etc

@ Shack Shack A list of videos rated by likes/ratings doesn't sound bad. I will consider this. If you or anyone have any more suggestions, let me know.
I think option 2 is better, but 1 is more than enough to make it easier to search through. I say go with 1 to make it easier on yourself too. :) Thanks!
 

Shack

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Anyone know if there's archived footage yet of the aMSa matches form Apex? I saw some of them on stream, but wanted to know if they were on youtube yet. I see nothing on Team Spooky or VGCBootCamp outside of Twitch yet.
 

Kite0692

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Alright Greninjas, here is what I have so far for our original post. I still have 5 pages left of videos to review, so I'm not done, and it's a work in process. Let me know what you think of this format, and if you have any suggestions to make it better.

I have divided each character into offline and online, as well as Wii U and 3DS (those images were the courtesy of the Duck Hunt board).

I wanted to make a separate post for Doubles and a separate for Guide/AT's/Other, but I don't think that will be possible in this thread due to the fact that the second and third posts of this thread are already taken. Also, let me know if you guys think removing the spoiler tags might look better.

Singles

:4metaknight:
Actually mine was Offline, but its okay. I'll be posting more matches in a few days.

Does the quality of the video matters? I would have to upload it via mobile x_x
 

Mocha

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Actually mine was Offline, but its okay. I'll be posting more matches in a few days.

Does the quality of the video matters? I would have to upload it via mobile x_x
You're Keekay, right? No worries, I'll update it to offline on the OP once I get to your name tab. Do you want me to list you as Keekay or Kite?
 

Kite0692

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You're Keekay, right? No worries, I'll update it to offline on the OP once I get to your name tab. Do you want me to list you as Keekay or Kite?
Keekay. They changed my name (k-i-k-e is a bad word lol) and renamed me ''kite''.

As for this week I'll upload 3 matches (vs Metaknight and Charizard). Decent quality (better than the other video). Hope you don't mind.
 

Mocha

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Keekay. They changed my name (k-i-k-e is a bad word lol) and renamed me ''kite''.

As for this week I'll upload 3 matches (vs Metaknight and Charizard). Decent quality (better than the other video). Hope you don't mind.
It's all good, and I'll make sure your matches are listed as offline. If you or anyone else see any other discrepancy, let me know. For now it's still under construction as we transition to player-by-player listing.
 

elusiveTranscendent

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrV6G9VGSGQ&feature=youtu.be

Ok this is my recent video. Again vs Metaknight. I will appreciate anything you say about the match (especially if you talk about my mistakes). Offline match vs Wilmenz.
Dang, that was pretty nice. I think I'm too low leveled of a player to really spot any fallacies in here.. .-.

Most of your grabs are on point. Kudos to you. and nice spacing with those empty short hops.



Me on the other hand.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aON_oJPhfeU
Edit: this was online
I was playing against my friend's Doctor Mario and lost.
There's missed b-reversed shurikens at 0:50 and 1:49. .-.
Also, apparently Doctor Mario can up special out of our rapid jab. That's a thing.
Some critique would help..? Sorry, don't want to be a bother, especially with me not being able to say much productive things as critique to everyone else. :/

Edit2:
oh, and, uh, I guess this video could be added to the OP as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuLz8USilG0
This one was offline, at the break, against a Falcon.
Edit 3:
Just gonna clarify the matches that are actually in for me in the OP.

And yes, I can affirm that was dabuz because it was on Smashladder and it was versus his account. So, unless it was a sick impersonator who was able to win a 29 win streak and getting 5th on the ladder over there, while masquerading as dabuz, it was actually, seriously dabuz.
 
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FullMoon

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I fought against Dabuz on the Smashladder as well, he played Rosa though. I managed to get him down to one stock in both rounds.

Should I be proud? I honestly don't know =P
 

elusiveTranscendent

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I fought against Dabuz on the Smashladder as well, he played Rosa though. I managed to get him down to one stock in both rounds.

Should I be proud? I honestly don't know =P
Probably~! I mean, he got second in Apex 2015 Smash 4 singles, sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Yeah, that's something that you could brag about.
 

Mocha

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrV6G9VGSGQ&feature=youtu.be

Ok this is my recent video. Again vs Metaknight. I will appreciate anything you say about the match (especially if you talk about my mistakes). Offline match vs Wilmenz.
Dang, that was pretty nice. I think I'm too low leveled of a player to really spot any fallacies in here.. .-.

Most of your grabs are on point. Kudos to you. and nice spacing with those empty short hops.



Me on the other hand.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aON_oJPhfeU
Edit: this was online
I was playing against my friend's Doctor Mario and lost.
There's missed b-reversed shurikens at 0:50 and 1:49. .-.
Also, apparently Doctor Mario can up special out of our rapid jab. That's a thing.
Some critique would help..? Sorry, don't want to be a bother, especially with me not being able to say much productive things as critique to everyone else. :/

Edit2:
oh, and, uh, I guess this video could be added to the OP as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuLz8USilG0
This one was offline, at the break, against a Falcon.
Edit 3:
Just gonna clarify the matches that are actually in for me in the OP.

And yes, I can affirm that was dabuz because it was on Smashladder and it was versus his account. So, unless it was a sick impersonator who was able to win a 29 win streak and getting 5th on the ladder over there, while masquerading as dabuz, it was actually, seriously dabuz.
Alright froggies, updated the OP with your latest vids and the offline/online edits for Elu. It really helps when you guys point out if the match is online or offline, so keep it up! Hopefully I'll finish having all the player listings tonight, with most vids updated.
 
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