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i agree.
I certainly agree on him being a bit more difficult... but i dont think he could be THAT bad.
Trust me, when you play a fairly decent one, you'll understand our pain very quickly.
Even with pushy lloid blocking all of his attacks?
Getting the option to use Pushy lloid is nowhere near worth your opponent getting the option to take out an incredibly quick reflector, that your opponent can move, block, grab and throw at you with. Also pushy lloid wont block a metal blade on its startup, which is slower than regular lloid.
Ooooh I completely forgot about the planking LMAO, never mind I can't judge it based on my gameplay as I don't play Villager to his max potential in customs cause I don't plank...In that case yeah maybe Villager does do that match-up better with customs.
I think planking villager generally loses to characters that have good spikes like falcon, Megaman has a spike but it's not really the greatest and not too good at this strategy imo. Scatt tried some things against me when we did practice it, but none of it was really effective (he tried his megaman's bomb customs that throw in an arc to hit me on the edge and his tornado up-b to get me off the edge, but neither seemed that effective, you can pocket the tornado up-b and use it back at him actually lol), that was just in a pretty short time we tried it so like i said megaman might have some counter play to it that I just didn't see yet, even if he does though you don't have to play planking villager the whole time though, you can just mix it up with planking and just staying on stage camping behind sapling or something though.
Oh dude, ****kkkk Lucario like seriously UGHHHHH. He is like low-key one of Villager's absolute worst match-ups ever. If only we could at least use our lloid on him. Also I think we beat falcons, hes just so tall and lacking in any range whatsoever. And I feel like we can easily stuff out his moves and everything with Nair and if hes offstage its sooo easy to edge-guard him.
I would personally replace mega man with Sheik atm but for the most part yup. I'm pretty sure you can at least grab him to punish him because you can't block a grab frame 1 like you can with normal moves so you would technically have about 3 frames at least to be able to punish Lucario with grab before he spot dodges which is frame 3 for most characters I think. But man, it is not easy to position yourself properly AND catch that at the same time, especially considering villagers lack of speed. I do remember John Numbers telling me that the counter was invincible until the very last frame, I'm not sure but it DEFINITELY feels that way.
I wouldn't say Lucario is easy to camp just because of the double team on the lloid, that is one of the biggest things about the MU.
Ya IDK about sheik, it's definitely a bad MU, I just can't tell how bad. I think villager is one of the better character at taking advantage of the 1 frame vulnerability that sheik (and I guess other teleporting characters) is so vulnerable to. If she vanishes to the edge, you can easily get a sourspot dair which is nice and I've been getting better at bowling balling it too. So I feel like there is some potential in that MU to make it better.
Player-1
it's funny that you think Game & Watch beats Villager since a G&W player feels that Villager is a loss for us and borderline unwinnable with customs on. Personally I think Villager wins by a bit but it's not awful. Villager UAir should beat Game & Watch DAir if it's three-pull but honestly it's just best to move out of the way and punish the endlag if possible. Fire has invincibility frames for most of the jump but they run out by the apex which is why it'll usually beat Villager's DAir. Really the main thing to watch out for is reckless Lloid usage since we can get two bucket levels if we catch the explosion at the end of its trail. Also default Balloon Trip is delicious gimp bait.
Whoa wait. You don't think Sheik is another one of his worst MUs? I find that very surprising, do you think you could explain why?
I think DHD goes even with us. We're able to send the can back in DHD's direction and we can stop his Frisbee with slingshot as well. Just knowing how to utilize all your tools in the MU definitely help. I do agree about his camp game being stronger than ours. We have a winning MU with Lucas imo. Much more manageable than ness. I think we go even with sonic. This MU is pretty volatile to me since catching sonic with a stock lead can be tedious. Nair and our slingshot beat out a lot of sonic's regular approach tools. Gotta remember to hit sonic where he's gonna be x). Mr. R makes me feel like Ryu goes even with villager. It's not as easy as people think it is. Powershielding is really crucial for both sides of the MU. I'll try to get him in here to comment on the MU more. I personally think that MM gives us more trouble than Sheik. I was also able to play against Mr.R and vinnie's sheik for a good bit at CEO and felt like it was a lot more feasible than MM. We need to capitalize hard off stage vs Sheik, which is not always easy to do either. Sheik can simply up b if we get predictable with our pursuit off stage. There is a 2 frame window where we can bop sheik during her up b, which is when she jumps up initially. It's already been mentioned before but capitalizing on the 1 frame window for sheik when she is recovering is pretty crucial. We lose to ZSS but its only a slight disadvantage if anything. ZSS being tall certainly helps and we have a good time with her once she is off stage. Her grab is certainly good but she is susceptible to free combos/hard punishes if she whiffs her grab. TL vs Villager is similar to Sonic vs Villager in my eyes. It's a lot more drastic since I think that the player who takes the first stock is going to have a field day. For this particular list you have, player 1, I would switch falco and fox around. I've only played McPeePants falco before the update, so I don't have much ground to stand on for that MU. I got to play with megafox and larry (@CEO) for awhile and my thoughts on the MU didn't change. I'm not a fan of fighting lil mac but I don't loathe the MU. I literally just try to throw him off stage lol so if anyone has any advice in the MU (or any MUs for that matter), I'll gladly listen.
I confirm. The only way to punish lucario after his counter is trigerred is to hit him from under the stage.. If you time it correctly, You can grow a tree under his feet and kill him like that. the timing is hard tho.
Wait 6-4 in Bowser's FAVOR? Please explain.
Well honsetly, I looked all the way back to page 10, and I couldn't find where we discussed Bowser. Page 10 was way back in February, so going further back would just mean less informed and overall worse opinions on MUs. We should probably start the individual MU thread thing soon.
yeah TL has a lot of stuff to work with its really your job to cancel his stuff with your own stuff + pocket slingshot clanks with every single projectile he owns except for bombs and bombs take a while to come out so pester him with slingshots while using lloyd (idk if air or ground) to block one or two projectiles and have a shield with you as you make your way towards him focus on denying him space.Such great info in this thread every single time I come back. The Luigi MU info was just what I was looking for though slightly vague for my taste, but helpful.
Now, I desperately need intel on the Link AND Toon Link MUs guys. More so on Toon Link cuz he's much more of a pester to me but for both would be greatly appreciated. My friend who's a T. Link main told me that the forums said it's about 50:50 which I do concur with but I'd love to know how to go about fighting him. All I know is a lot of Lloyd's. They're rather difficult to gimp and the glide toss combos just murder me. I feel so defenseless with the endless barrage of STUFF!
Hella thanks Ant! Didn't realize that the bomb could be so useful for combos...hmm. So like. Glide tossing into a SH axe or grounded axe? I actually make great use of the axe so this may work out nicely for me. Also, using the tree as a cornering mechanism...? Mainly, I need to learn to be patient I feel too since both characters are extreme zoners.