Data Town Hall Meeting - Villager Matchup Discussion

WispBae

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Hey there you lil monsters cuties<3
The Doggy Forums are discussing this MU and would love your input on it!

Click on this reference to The Shining (that many of our younger players won't even get) to go straight to the thread!

...oh by the way, Pink Villager da bes, followed by lime green "I'm just happy to be here" Villager <3
 
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Antonykun

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Hey there you lil monsters cuties<3
The Doggy Forums are discussing this MU and would love your input on it!

Click on this reference to The Shining (that many of our younger players won't even get) to go straight to the thread!

...oh by the way, Pink Villager da bes, followed by lime green "I'm just happy to be here" Villager <3
this picture is ironic considering Megaman easily beats Villager
 

RAzul

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Patience should be a villager player's greatest virtue. :)
Maaaaan.....you couldn't be any more correct man. I'm by nature a very aggressive player, so my playstyle with Villager is very alien. But, I'm learning te hard way to play more patient. I usually have trouble with MUs with quick characters, most notably Fox. Any tips for you or ANYONE on that one? Is it + or -, cuz I think it's - and it saddens me so. My other main is GW and I don't think that's a great MU for him either.


I
this picture is ironic considering Megaman easily beats Villager
I wouldn't say EASILY, but it most certainly is one of Vill's toughest MUs. It's ABOUT 50:50, when played right.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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To all Villagers out there, the Rosalina sub-forum has a match-up discussion thread all set up to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Villager. Got anything to share for the Rosalina vs. Villager match-up? Then head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/413574/

In terms of the rules, be sure to go to the directory thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/
 

SoniCraft

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Alright I think it's about time we started MU specific discussion threads, then we can just copy pasta them into the OP of this thread! So what MU should we start with?
 

Wonderf

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Alright I think it's about time we started MU specific discussion threads, then we can just copy pasta them into the OP of this thread! So what MU should we start with?
I think we should start with top tiers or marth/lucina for the sake of @ MillionGoldMan MillionGoldMan and let's just do a few threads a week
 
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SoniCraft

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Just attended a tournament this past weekend and went 1-2(probably would've went 2-2 but one guy in loser's dropped out), and I lost to a Rob and ZSS. I took them both to Game 3, but I felt a bit more comfortable against the Rob despite him being a much better player(who also had plenty of Villager experience) than the ZSS, which leads me to believe the Rob MU is pretty good for Villager. The ZSS MU, however, seems to be a pretty different beast. Recovering is a lot scarier, and trying to stuff ZSS' recovery could lead to you getting gimped easily. Anybody have any tips for ZSS?

As for who I beat, he played Mario and Falcon. This set also went to Game 3, and I was able to clutch it out against his Mario. At first he just spammed his cape, but I adapted and punished him for it, so he started playing a little smarter. I'd say it's a bit in Mario's advantage, but not by much. As for his Falcon, well he didn't really know what he was doing against Villager, so I can't really say much about the MU.
 

MJG

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Usually for ZSS, I would try and bait out her flip jump when you can't combo her anymore (with say, fair). They prefer to use flip jump since she can get gimped easily if she recovers too low. If she uses her flip jump faster than expected, you can also jump at it and airdodge to force her out of the action and then punish her immediately after. ZSS is tall. Try to link your fairs/bairs together in certain fashions to give her a difficult time while she attempts an approach. It also helps if you can vary the timing for your slingshot, which obviously goes for any MU. Try to bait out her grab so that you can punish her for free. This is how I play the MU:

http://www.twitch.tv/nextlevelstreaming/v/11289313

Starts at 03:42:41. This is one of my most recent tourneys.
 
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S_B

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Not sure if this is being discussed somewhere or not, but is there a thread talking about which characters (with which moves) can successfully pop both of villager's balloons without hitting villager?

I mention because of this:

Now, the circumstances in which this can happen are very specific:

1. You must be far enough below the ledge that you don't rise and snap on balloon pop.

2. You must've already Up+Bed, as you could still Uair someone if they're trying to do this to you early.

3. You have to be actively moving upward toward the ledge. You could stall, bait, and then proceed up and snap.

4. The character in question (in this case, Bowser) has to go for this instead of B/Fair which could stage spike fairly viciously.

So it's not super likely to happen, but it could take a stock as a mix-up when you were ready to tech instead of being ready to bait.
 

Tommy - S.N.

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Dabuz successfully popped my balloons a few days ago on his live stream with :rosalina:'s rising dair. Dabuz is too funny...
 

Nintendoge_

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I've had Donkey Kong's up b and ROB's spike pop both of my balloons. It's quite embarrassing ;_;

There might be more but the occurrences of this are so few and far between I can't remember.
 
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De Wolfe

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I think this was mentioned before but surely the Palutena matchup is just impossible? Her reflect makes slingshot and lloids obsolete. The pushback on it makes it so safe, its so hard to punish even when you know its coming. The palutena can just constantly throw it out without fear of repercussion.

Once you've made fair/bair and lloid rockets useless Villager doesn't really have much else to safely approach and space himself whilst winning the percent war. Its a common theme in alot of his matchups vs characters with reflects but Palutenas just takes the cake.
 

Steelballray

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Hello, villager mains.

I was thinking about pocketing villager (not intended) because I really like him and I don't know how to play any character right now besides MK. But first I figured I would ask about how he handles MK's worst matchup (well, in my opinion) which is Yoshi. I am using my phone and the MU chart you have in the first page is not showing up correctly (or I don't know how to read it, I dunno) so yeah.. How well do you guys handle Yoshi? I would love to know.
 

SoniCraft

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Hello, villager mains.

I was thinking about pocketing villager (not intended) because I really like him and I don't know how to play any character right now besides MK. But first I figured I would ask about how he handles MK's worst matchup (well, in my opinion) which is Yoshi. I am using my phone and the MU chart you have in the first page is not showing up correctly (or I don't know how to read it, I dunno) so yeah.. How well do you guys handle Yoshi? I would love to know.
Hey how's it going Steelballray? Pretty cool to see you come over to the Villager boards. As for Yoshi...he's not too fun to fight against as Villager, at least from my experience and several other players on these boards. He's one of the harder characters to gimp thanks to his double jump armor, and he has the aerial and ground speed to maneuver through our gauntlet of projectiles. Could you give some insight on why it's a bad MU for MK? I actually wanna pick him up as a secondary, so I kinda need to figure out if Yoshi would be easier with Villager or MK.
 

Steelballray

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Hey how's it going Steelballray? Pretty cool to see you come over to the Villager boards. As for Yoshi...he's not too fun to fight against as Villager, at least from my experience and several other players on these boards. He's one of the harder characters to gimp thanks to his double jump armor, and he has the aerial and ground speed to maneuver through our gauntlet of projectiles. Could you give some insight on why it's a bad MU for MK? I actually wanna pick him up as a secondary, so I kinda need to figure out if Yoshi would be easier with Villager or MK.
thanksfor for your input.

Yoshi beats MK for the same reason he beats you. You can't catch or edgeguard him. We also can't really catch him in the air due to his insane air speed and our mediocre one. Us having a sort of a limited neutral holds us back a lot as well and force us to stay in place and shield his approaches all the time with almost no hope of punishing them. New patch made him hit shields even harder as well. Also, every dropped combo gets punished too hard and too easily.

Its a matchup where he can do anything he wants with little care and one where every little mistake we make can either deal tons of damage or end our stocks.
 

Deezxnutz

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I know the video is of TLink but I was wondering if Villager could incorporate the same tech if he were to catch or Pocket his bombs?

 

RAzul

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I know this has been discussed millions of times but I personally need dloaded data on the ZSS and Sonic MU. For ZSS, do I just play ultimate keep away and not gimp off stage due to her high recovery? And for Sonic, same (keeps way) while throwing out a N/U/Dair when he spin dashes? Lastly, does anyone know when to properly tech his DThrow. That would help a ton. Thank you in advance.
 

verbatim

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Not sure if this is being discussed somewhere or not, but is there a thread talking about which characters (with which moves) can successfully pop both of villager's balloons without hitting villager?
Ganondorf can do this as well.

Realistically I'd imagine most characters can pop both balloons with enough precision, but it's not exactly the sort of thing that would be on the top of most peoples' lab schedules.
 

verbatim

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Save your jump and recover lower than they expect, go around and recover high, take the hit tech the stage spike then up b? Villager can mixup his recovery in a million ways as is, only one of those recoveries really leaves you open to a situational punish that no one intentionally does.
 

Sonsa

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Oh hey! What do you guys think about the Ryu matchup? When I watch Hooded's videos, I think about how Ryu's mobility isn't particularly slow and Villager doesn't really have any multi-hits (besides the slow up-tilt anyone could react to I guess) so... the match must be Ryu chasing Villager down while Villager plays keepaway I imagine? Maybe I should switch to a secondary?
 

verbatim

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You shouldn't really think about switching to a secondary until you get to a point where you are consistently losing to that character in tournament even after rewatching your matches and changing your approaches, that being said...

The reasons a Villager wouldn't like fighting Ryu are the same reasons anyone wouldn't like fighting Ryu. You dance around doing your best to end it and then you get true shoryukened at 60 and lose. Every matchup that involves Ryu is a scary matchup, I think your best bet would to just be to double down and play hard.
 

Deezxnutz

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Such great info in this thread every single time I come back. The Luigi MU info was just what I was looking for though slightly vague for my taste, but helpful.

Now, I desperately need intel on the Link AND Toon Link MUs guys. More so on Toon Link cuz he's much more of a pester to me but for both would be greatly appreciated. My friend who's a T. Link main told me that the forums said it's about 50:50 which I do concur with but I'd love to know how to go about fighting him. All I know is a lot of Lloyd's. They're rather difficult to gimp and the glide toss combos just murder me. I feel so defenseless with the endless barrage of STUFF!:crazy:
One cool thing I discovered when fighting my friend's TL is when I have the watering can available sometimes I'll just SH water which will send the bombs flying and clank with the boomerang and arrows (dunno about fully charged though)
 

Deezxnutz

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Can someone elaborate on the Bowser Jr. matchup? I hear from both sides saying that it's in Villager's favor yet I never seen Villager actually win the match and I find myself having a hard time with it as well.
 

Beamer_Chillager

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Could I have some input on the Sonic matchup? I'm going to a tournament today and I'm going up against a sonic in the first match.
 

XIIHangman

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Could I have some input on the Sonic matchup? I'm going to a tournament today and I'm going up against a sonic in the first match.
I guess I can contribute with this MU, I have a solid amount of experience with hedgehogs of varying skill levels with Villager. The key is racking up damage and punishing off/under stage play. On ground, Sonic's specials and his overall speed make zoning with Loid and f/bair difficult and Villager's tools in the neutral have difficulty getting him to back off without really good timing or hard reads. Try to condition your opponent to approach in a way that you can use aerial Loids and the treat of the tree to move where you want them to.

As for going on the offensive against the Blue Blur, there's not much Villager has unfortunately. One of the most secure kill options is dSmash>uSmash because it keeps him still long enough. A well placed bair at high percentage can do well, same goes for usual tree and bowling ball tricks but be wary as by the time they're useful Sonic's rage makes any sort of approach dangerous. Overall, play the patience game but don't let Sonic dictate where you base your zoning. Assert dominance over the center of the stage and you'll eventually get him right where you want him: IMO it's a 50:50 because while its an uphill battle in theory, Villager had exactly the kind of tools to punish Sonic as efficiently as possible and in a war of attrition the Villager can camp harder than Sonic.

Also don't mind the Megaman stuff, while he's my main I've been duo-maining Megaman and Villager since 3DS release and I've recently been considering closing the gap and going full Villager. So I'll be around for further elaboration and future MU discussion.
 

De Wolfe

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Anyone else feel like the Rosalina matchup is actually okay for Villager? Would be interesting to see how others feel about it.
 

SoniCraft

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Anyone else feel like the Rosalina matchup is actually okay for Villager? Would be interesting to see how others feel about it.
Most Villagers say it's his worst matchup actually. zeezee zeezee picked up Pikachu just for that character.
 

De Wolfe

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Rosalina is just naturally strong as a character so it'll never be in Villagers favour but I think it could end up somewhat even.

Its a war of attrition matchup imo where you have rack up % little by little over time and make sure you punish Luma hard whenever you can. Bowling balls, trees and rapid jabs are great vs Luma I find. Gravity pull seems broken at first as Villagers strategy is very projectile based but its more punishable than you think. Rosa can sit their absorbing 90% of your projectiles but it doesn't really accomplish much for her. If one out of 5 of your Lloids or slingshots hit her or Luma you're still getting the % advantage or racking up % on Luma. The fact that shes really tall means shes more susceptible to slingshots in general. Nairs are great for breaking out of her jab combos. Villagers disjointed dairs and uairs can contend with rosas aerials. Her recovery is somewhat telegraphed and kind of punishable. Bowling ball is amazing vs her on stages with vertical edges.

I'm not gonna lie most of my Rosa experience comes from FG or Anthers so I'm not saying I've played any truly high level Rosas. However, I've been playing Fighting games competitively for about six years now and I feel I can get a sense of what nuances in a matchup will carry through at high level. This is the only vid of Ranai vs Rosalina I could find. He loses the set in the end but I dunno, it looked kinda back and forth to me overall:

 
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zeezee

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Most Villagers say it's his worst matchup actually. zeezee zeezee picked up Pikachu just for that character.
Its apparently not that bad and maybe even evenish, as MJG and Ranai has shown us through their performances vs top level Rosalinas in the past few months. I probably just need to suck it up and learn the matchup lmaooo.

We'll see how it is hopefully at genesis 3 where theres a good chance Ranai may clash with Dabuz.
 

verbatim

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IDK, Dabuz seems like the scariest American competitor for Ranai. I think it'd be a lot better if he ended up in the half of the bracket with ZeRo or Nairo, that or Dabuz loses early to Leo/Abadango.
 

SoniCraft

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IDK, Dabuz seems like the scariest American competitor for Ranai. I think it'd be a lot better if he ended up in the half of the bracket with ZeRo or Nairo, that or Dabuz loses early to Leo/Abadango.
Nah ZeRo will definitely give Ranai a challenge with that beast of a Sheik. Then again, ZeRo probly doesn't know the MU, but I imagine he'll do his homework before he faces the best villager in the world.
 

De Wolfe

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Theres been alot of discussion about what characters Villager loses to but can anyone give their opinion on what matchups are solidly in his favour?
 
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XIIHangman

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If I had to say one MU that's 60-40 or better for Villager I'd wager it's Donkey Kong. The first to come to mind at least. Villager can zone him out with incredible ease, can secure kills easier thanks to his huge hurt boxes, and can interrupt most combos with nAir without even putting in effort. DK has a hard time racking up damage on Villager so as long as you keep moving and sniping with Lloid and f/bair it's a run away match for our trusty little mayor.
 
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