Data Town Hall Meeting - Villager Matchup Discussion

OfficialThatGuy

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We need a 1.1.3 patch update on this thread ;-;

and we need to discuss about Cloud too.



I've been trying out this matchup, and I find it fairly in Villager's advantage, but clearly not an easy matchup.
:4villager: can gimp :4cloud:, but his massive disjointed hitboxes on :4cloud:'s aerials can be a pain to deal, since they can prevent F/B-airs and Lloids. Limit Break is also a factor, giving :4cloud: a great recovery and a early killing option against :4villager:.
:4villager: can indeed pocket his LB Blade Beam, but I'm pretty sure that the :4cloud: that does that is probably retarded or wanted a hard-arse read.

I personally think the MU is (:4villager:60:40:4cloud:), but I know it's still early to decide that, what are your opinions?
 

XIIHangman

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I would say the Cloud MU is 55:45 in Villager's favor on the basis of Villager's zoning nature. Cloud has excellent tools and once he gains momentum it's hard to catch up but Villager's strongest assets (i.e. preventing the opponent from getting in or recovering to stage) is Cloud's weakest points. Villager can take full advantage of Cloud's sole projectile that flashes with damn near anything Villager can put out and pocketing it just gives more to our arsenal, his tools let him break away and get distance from Cloud throughout all stages of the battle, and once Cloud is off stage it's a matter of linking a couple of f/bairs together and he's done for. Cloud's poor recovery options hurt him in this MU more than most top tier threats, I feel as though any zoning character that's not afraid to get a bit aggressive can make Cloud hold an upward battle.

With all of that said, the reason I don't leave this at a 60:40 is because in the off chance that Cloud gets in, he can easily rack up the damage needed for Finishing Blow to kill, all in one foul swoop assuming the Cloud can space his tilts and aerials well or gets some solid reads. Under normal circumstances a Villager with good DI is lasting a long time but Finishing Blow doesn't really care about DI once the opponent is anywhere above 55% or so (varies from stage to stage but it's usually around that %). In order for this MU to be a clean sweep for Villager they need to focus on keeping Cloud out of their personal space at all cost or else Cloud can turn the tide of battle quickly, especially if rage is involved with the Cloud's reversal of momentum.
 

Shimunogora

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Thoughts regarding 1.1.4?

I am not an expert by any means, so I'd like to know what all of you are thinking up those MUs. I've been faring well against Bayonetta (despite the fact that the ledge is... much less fun) and having a hard time with Corrin. It's still early so I imagine playstyles for them will change, any first impressions?
 
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Thoughts regarding 1.1.4?

I am not an expert by any means, so I'd like to know what all of you are thinking up those MUs. I've been faring well against Bayonetta (despite the fact that the ledge is... much less fun) and having a hard time with Corrin. It's still early so I imagine playstyles for them will change, any first impressions?
Today I was able to buffer a roll when Bayo Witch Time'd Lloid, so I was invulnerable for most of it. Essentially baited her into staling it a bit.
 

diop

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I still don't really know her that well, but for Bayo I pretty much find just always have lloid out on the ground to block all her stupid chip damage and a lot of them like to try and slide to start their combos off and just run in to that ****. Witchtime if I ever activate it I just nair immediately and try to run in to Bayo's body since they generally try going for smash attacks and the hitboxes don't really actually overlap her body that much and the nair seems to do a good job of clanking with it most times..
 
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diop

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Also, what is the counter to Yoshi killing with a grab to down b? I lost a very close set because of that, never experienced it before and just kinda frustrated I lost because of gimmicks.
 

SoniCraft

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Also, what is the counter to Yoshi killing with a grab to down b? I lost a very close set because of that, never experienced it before and just kinda frustrated I lost because of gimmicks.
Mashing? That should get you out of the grab if you're fast enough. Or proper DI possibly.
 

diop

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Mashing? That should get you out of the grab if you're fast enough. Or proper DI possibly.
I don't know if you've dealt with it before, but mashing is exactly what gets you killed. The pop-up you do after you mash out leads in to Yoshi's down B and kills. Like three of his four kills came from it and after the set he was like you don't want to mash out when Yoshi grabs you like that but I was like the **** I sposed to do tho
 

trevskeet

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In the WFT mu, is it better to keep pocket open for her sun salutations or to disable her volley spike? Just now realized how simple it is to keep her volleyball by bouncing it off a tree to repocket it. Useful?
 

Rockaphin

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Ok, so here's my match-up chart for Villager at the moment. (Definitely subject to change)


A little about my competitive side:
I've put many hours into Smash. Mostly 1v1 For Glory, but I've also competed in the past. Due to my area, I have not entered many tournaments. I mostly play Villager and Ryu. I decided to create this chart because boredom and to add some sort of discussion to this thread. (Sorry if this is the wrong place to do so.) This chart is mostly from personal experience and such is reflected in my chart.

Here are some points I'd like to add about my chart:

:4bayonetta2::4corrin::4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword::
I've left them out due to the lack of experience. Also, I feel it's too early to judge: Bayonetta and Corrin.

:4megaman::
I, personally, absolutely hate this MU. Pellets are annoying and aren't really worth pocketing in most cases. I don't seem to be the only one here to hate this match-up either.

:4cloud2::
While Cloud has superior movement and disjoints, Villy can close a stock very fast if Cloud isn't careful.

:4mewtwo::
I originally thought this was an advantage for Villy, but after the buffs, I'm a little unsure.

:4ryu::
Painful for Ryu. It's hard to get in on Villy. This match-up kinda reminds me of the Luigi match-up, however, Ryu's damage makes it more manageable.

:4ganondorf::
I honestly feel like this is one of Ganondorf's worst MU's. Villager's tools shut a lot down and Ganondorf's mobility doesn't help.

I'll add a little more later, but that's the base of my match-up chart. Of course, this is based mostly on experience so some characters may seem a little off. I couldn't decide if X character should be "mostly even" or "slightly advantage."
 
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I need help fighting villagers who like to throw out lots of projectiles. My mains are:4wiifit::4gaw:and:4roy:. What are the best ways to fight villager for each character?
 

PigglyJuff

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Hey guys, I need some help with my robin match ups, my local tournament has a really good robin and I would like to at least understand what to do and what advantages or disadvantages I have.
 

JohnnyB

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Any tips against :4falcon:?
- Don't lloid in neutral he can grab or dash attack you easily.

- Exploit his recovery, Dair him if possible. Fsmash works too, watering can is also really good at gimping him if you have it and he doesn't sweetspot the ledge.

- Your mixup game has to be very tight, if he reads you you will eat a lot of damage / lose a stock. Empty hops are good for this.

- Stages with platfotms > than stages without.
 

Fairfax

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- Don't lloid in neutral he can grab or dash attack you easily.

- Exploit his recovery, Dair him if possible. Fsmash works too, watering can is also really good at gimping him if you have it and he doesn't sweetspot the ledge.

- Your mixup game has to be very tight, if he reads you you will eat a lot of damage / lose a stock. Empty hops are good for this.

- Stages with platfotms > than stages without.
Thank you. I'm not good enough with the watering can yet, but I'll definitely remember to do the rest.
 
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So I read an earlier post that about the villager vs corrin mu and someone said just to projectile spam them. I don't think that works all of the time and it's difficult to keep corrin at a distance. Below I posted some tournament matches that gives examples of this (Ranai is included in one of them) :

Ranai (villager) vs Smash God (Corrin)
https://youtu.be/awgwI7B6yEk

Villager vs Corrin (random local)
https://youtu.be/Q5RJR6Z7lac

It seems as if it's hard to get the kill on corrin and stalling by the ledge won't help too much because of corrins dragon lunge.

How does one get around that?
 

C0rvus

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Is there an up-to-date matchup spread for Villager? Or just the general perception of his matchup spread? Not much activity with this character lately, not sure where to begin or if it's worth beginning.
 

JohnnyB

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Is there an up-to-date matchup spread for Villager? Or just the general perception of his matchup spread? Not much activity with this character lately, not sure where to begin or if it's worth beginning.
There really isn't anything concrete but everyone seems to agree that Megaman, Rosa, and Cloud are really bad. Most of everything else is at least doable even if Villager loses by a bit.
 
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Keep him out, bait the cape, dont get grabbed, and good luck killing.
I've been playing mostly against defensive marios, so keeping them away hasn't been a problem, but I struggle when trying to approach them. Even my nairs get punished and I get grabbed a lot.
How should I approac them without getting grabbed so often? Villager's grab seems to be a gift for Mario, as he can even punish with Fsmash or Dsmash with ease.
 

De Wolfe

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There really isn't anything concrete but everyone seems to agree that Megaman, Rosa, and Cloud are really bad. Most of everything else is at least doable even if Villager loses by a bit.
I think you can add Palutena to the list of really bad ones. Reflect alone shuts down villagers gameplan pretty bad.

Other matchups I've seen complaints about that I'm inclined to agree with are Toon Link, Corrin and Mario. I also think Pikachu is quite bad.

Other than that though he either goes pretty even with or beats the rest of the cast.
 
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Lamis

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I've been having trouble with mk and Pikachu, they are too fast and short to play the keep away game let alone playing aggressive . Any advice ?
 
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Villager has good matchups against duck hunt and samus probably 70/30 for samus and 60/40 for duck hunt. I have the game, so if you want me to play some for glory or face people using specific characters with villager i can do that
I'm hoping to get better at Villager as well as other characters. I am not familiar with the Duck hunt match up so I would like to fight you so I can get used to it in case I ever have to fight a Duck hunt in a tournament. I would like to play some matches with you if you wouldn't mind
 
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I just played against the best player I have ever battled. He played mega man mostly, and I couldn't counter his strategy.

His main strategy:
B, then Side B, shield when I jump and approach, then grab or roll away to reset

My counter strategies:
-send out side b (didn't work because both his b and side b destroyed it)
-attempt to aerial side a mega man (didn't work because I kept landing too quickly to cancel the attack, and landing lag made the attack too slow anyway when it did come out)
-jump over the projectiles and attack him (I got shield grabbed)
-jump over the projectiles and grab him (somehow he still shield grabbed me faster every single time)
-jump over the projectiles and land behind him (he rolled away to reset)
-pocket the projectiles and send them back (tried with saw blade first, but that was a terrible idea because unpocketing it makes you hold it instead of throw it--then I tried with his bomb things, and sent them back, but they would just explode against the next thing he threw)
-pocket his side b and hold on to it and jump in to throw it (this one actually worked for a bit, but he realized he could just rush me to place the bomb on me. I would attack him and keep him away about half the time, but if he realized that it was about to blow up on him, he would just shield and roll away to reset)

But every once in a while he would throw in change-ups. They were all "predictable", but I still couldn't do anything about them.

His change-ups:
-If he got me above him, he would do aerial up a pretty much without fail. There was nothing I could do about it except avoid it. I must admit though, this was my biggest fault... Every time I was knocked in the air right above him, I tried to down a turnip him. And every single time I would get pummeled into the air by the dumb tornado.
-If he got me off the edge he would spike me downward with some sort of missile type thing.. and he was good at aiming it
-sometimes he would jump in the air to avoid my side b, and would leaf shield then roll forward, roll backward, and then dash grab. I actually got used to this one, but I didn't know how to attack him during it. Now that I think of it, I probably should have slingshot him... I was trying to grab/jab instead mostly, which was super ineffective
-His go to kill moves were backward aerial a (when he knew I was trying to attack him in the air), up smash when he knew I was trying to land back on him, and occasionally down smash when he thought I would roll into him (he didn't he me with that one very often though)
-up b, land back on dog, land back on dog, jump, up b, land back on dog, land back on dog, jump, etc. This was his main bait move so that he could get me with aerial back a. Sadly it worked... :c And if I camped the dog, he would just land really far away from me to reset things.

Between all of these, he kept things mixed up. It was like he had a solution to every situation. I felt so stupid fighting against it just because it seemed so formulaic, and I saw things coming, but couldn't do anything about it. He was obviously a better player than me though.

So anyways...

What to do about a campy mega man? Playing campy back didn't help me at all. :c
Get Ranai to fight him and then watch the replay and see what he did to beat him.

Unfortunately that probably isn't possible, have you ever tried riding the lloid rocket towards him? I discovered that riding side-b to buffered axe is a true combo from 0-60 percent generally but it's a bit hard to pull off, especially if they know what you're doing.
 

Mythzotick

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I like to eat turnips with a glass of ice cold lemonade under a tree during the summer so I can enjoy the shade. And then I grab my saw blades and axes to cut down that same tree because I'm cold hearted; just like my emotion less, death staring face.

Hey Killager... uhh...I mean, Villager mains! The :4megaman: boards are about to discuss the Mega Man/Villager match up. Any input provided would be most appreciated. Thank you! :)

EDIT: http://smashboards.com/threads/boss...discussion-2-0-week-15-killager.431933/page-9
 
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trevskeet

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PSA: this is more of a FG tactic than competitive scene, but should a Kirby player ever rock near the ledge you can push them off with the watering can. Pretty amusing ^-^
 

C0rvus

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More of a general tip versus Falco but his midrange game is pretty weak. Up close he has a 2 frame jab, and some other good buttons. Outside the effective range of his ftilt, he has pretty slow dash attack/grab, so you can kinda play reactively from this range. Reflector is also unsafe on hit within this range. Not sure how well Villager can abuse this range, but it's something to keep in mind I guess.
 

Remi45

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More of a general tip versus Falco but his midrange game is pretty weak. Up close he has a 2 frame jab, and some other good buttons. Outside the effective range of his ftilt, he has pretty slow dash attack/grab, so you can kinda play reactively from this range. Reflector is also unsafe on hit within this range. Not sure how well Villager can abuse this range, but it's something to keep in mind I guess.
Thank you!
 

VelVet126

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any tips for fighting villager in general? how do i deal with fairs/bairs and lloid and possibly turnips if there are actually any ways to deal with that?
 
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