Tower of Smash Discussion

[SunnyDust]

Shadow + Ridley being in a smash game befoer as a boss + not having a trophy in the 3DS version.

That all being said, do we know if Sakurai reads English miiverse posts, or just Japanese ones? That's pretty important to consider since Metroid is not at all popular over in Japan. In fact, supposedly when the final roster got leaked, there was a Japanese user who said "Well if it's fake, then at least it wasn't done by a westerner because Ridley's not on there." Granted, that quote's just hearsay. Either way, Metroid isn't popular in Japan and if Sakurai just reads Japanese miiverse posts, then I can see how he could genuinely not realize how this whole thing is coming off as teasing western fans.

Pretty sure he only reads Japanese posts. I don't think he understands English. (before you ask, someone else translates the pics of the day for him)

 

[Meta_Ridley]

I really REALLY want to ask how has he been "teased" Besides the "shadow" But I dont want to start a fight so Ill keep my mouth shut

You can ask Redgohan to tell you more about this in a PM, to avoid more off-topic posts. A lot of it had to do with Ridley not being outright disconfirmed. The trophy thing that everyone else is saying isn't at all what Redgohan (and all of the other Ridley supporters) have been talking about.

 

[MysticKnives]

Mewtwo's Smash fanbase is even bigger, and he's only been in 1 game. I still call shenanigans on that. Not saying she should be cut, but if I had to choose between the two, I'd pick the more important, and relevant character.

On Ridley, that still just seems like Sakurai is trolling. And if he reads Miiverse post, as he claims, he knows how BIG a topic Ridley is for the west. The landscape is a bit different than with Petey Piranha. Ridley is a much more requested character, the concept of multiple bosses back in Brawl was new and fresh at the time, not so much now, and on top of that, a stage boss,essentially a downgrade from his Subspace role. That ain't something to get hyped about, though these are the same guys who thought Smash Run was going to be the next best thing since sliced bread, so who knows where their priorities land? Perhaps some people were deluding themselves for characters, but I still stand by that the Ridley supporters still had every right to expect Ridley, considering he has been teased, and alluded for a YEAR, seriously, that's alot of time to confirm the same role Ridley has had for 25 years, not to mention, had this very teased role in another game on the same stage, just 3 years ago. I say if Ridley isn't playable, Sakurai would be the more delusional one in thinking people wanted a stage boss Ridley. No, that's what most expect, not necessarily what they want.

"I'd pick the more important, and relevant character." Mewtwo isn't more relevant or important in Smash than Jiggs though. Popular? Maybe. Important? No, otherwise Mewtwo would have been in, and not the Jiggs. Mewtwo is cool and all, but relevancy isn't really a strong argument for wanting Mewtwo over Jiggs.

Agreed about the Ridley part. Currently, there isn't much info confirming the leak, or deconfirming it that can clearly be seen to outweigh the other. We simply have to wait.

 

[Aeon Lupin]

"I'd pick the more important, and relevant character." Mewtwo isn't more relevant or important in Smash than Jiggs though. Popular? Maybe. Important? No, otherwise Mewtwo would have been in, and not the Jiggs. Mewtwo is cool and all, but relevancy isn't really a strong argument for wanting Mewtwo over Jiggs.

Agreed about the Ridley part. Currently, there isn't much info confirming the leak, or deconfirming it that can clearly be seen to outweigh the other. We simply have to wait.

Uhh, Mewtwo was planned for every Smash game, including the first. He didn't make it in due to time contraints. Jigglypuff was included in the first Smash because she was easier to program into Smash, and was at the height of her popularity at the time. I can tell you Bowser, Marth, and even Pit hold more importance to the series than her. She isn't as important as you think.

 

[StupendousMike]

Uhh, Mewtwo was planned for every Smash game, including the first. He didn't make it in due to time contraints. Jigglypuff was included in the first Smash because she was easier to program into Smash, and was at the height of her popularity at the time. I can tell you Bowser, Marth, and even Pit hold more importance to the series than her. She isn't as important as you think.

Mewtwo was planned for every Smash game. Jigglypuff was IN every Smash game. Fifteen years later, it doesn't remotely matter how she got into that first game, only that she did and is a series staple. In the context of Smash alone, Jiggs is significantly more relevant than Mewtwo by now.

 

[leprechaunlink727]

This thread has devolved into a lot of pointless squabbling. I hope to god we get something soon. Tonight's PotD is another 3DS menu one...

 

[RoseyBetch]

Oh boy! I found Waldo! What a wonderfully interesting PotD! It helped explain that Wii U version we don't know anything about!

 

[VenomSymbiote]

Ridley was in the same area of data as Smash Run enemies and some Stage Bosses(that have enough A.I. to be included here. Other hazards are within the stage's programming) like Yellow Devil. It means whatever he was going to do on the 3DS was scrapped. This could either mean he's just a Wii U hazard, but didn't work on the 3DS, or the idea of him being a hazard was scrapped altogether. It goes both ways, and is really evidence for both to be reasonable possibilities.

His Boss data from Brawl was ported over. That could just as well mean he was completely intended to be an NPC of some kind. There's no way to tell, really.

If they reused Ridleys data then why did he act nothing like he should? He wasn't as big as he was in SSE, he didn't act like he did in SSE. Why bother porting over his data if they used like none of it anyway? It's not even the same Ridley model going by the tail tip. Maybe that Ridley boss data from SSE helps support one Ridley form as a boss and another as playable? And they didn't want boss Ridley to be seen until playable Ridley was shown off so as to not disappoint fans further? Bah, if hopes and dreams were gold coins I'd be set for life.

 

[Anthuhny]

Am I the only one who thinks the Mewtwo model from that 3DS trophy is terrible? If Mewtwo is in the game I hope he gets a model similar to the Project M representation. Hell I would even take the pokemon stadium model over that one.

 

[SaucyDancer]

Am I the only one who thinks the Mewtwo model from that 3DS trophy is terrible? If Mewtwo is in the game I hope he gets a model similar to the Project M representation. Hell I would even take the pokemon stadium model over that one.

The Mewtwo model used is correct to its modern design. Project M seems like its styled off original Mewtwo from Red and Blue (the big head and smaller thighs). I do agree though that the model isn't brilliant.

 

[Strofirko]

Somewhere,sakurai is laughing at our faces.

 

[Naoshi]

Am I the only one who thinks the Mewtwo model from that 3DS trophy is terrible? If Mewtwo is in the game I hope he gets a model similar to the Project M representation. Hell I would even take the pokemon stadium model over that one.

It's not just you. It's really ugly. I can deal with the legs, but ugh, his face, what the hell?

Even his model looked better in X/Y

 

[Kenith]

Actually, Mewtwo's trophy model in Smash 3DS is not modeled off of his current game design, and more on his anime movie design.
For comparison:

Game

First movie

Smash 3ds trophy

 

[Meta_Ridley]

With regards to Ridley's SSE data being ported over, the Ridley fight was originally supposed to be against Dyna Blade, who is in the Tower of Smash leak. Perhaps they're giving it back to Dyna Blade.

Have the data of all Subspace bosses been ported over or only certain ones? And of course, some may have been ported to the Wii U version and not the 3DS, which we'd know nothing about. Or all of this could just be plain cut.

 

[CryoGX]

I don't care what Mewtwo we get.

As long as it's Mewtwo.

 

[zferolie]

Man, I am starting to beleive Sakurai when he said no new information was going to be coming out of PotD... Why show anything 3DS anymore?

With regards to Ridley's SSE data being ported over, the Ridley fight was originally supposed to be against Dyna Blade, who is in the Tower of Smash leak. Perhaps they're giving it back to Dyna Blade.

Have the data of all Subspace bosses been ported over or only certain ones? And of course, some may have been ported to the Wii U version and not the 3DS, which we'd know nothing about. Or all of this could just be plain cut.

Is that true or just a rumor? That fight did have a lot of simularities with Dyna blade

 

[RoseyBetch]

Even though Ridley's files were found in the 3DS version doesn't mean anything. His files are there saying he was planned to be an enemy. That doesn't mean he definitely will be one in the Wii U version. It means they scrapped the idea of him being an enemy on the 3DS version for some reason or they tinkered with it for a little while, gave up, and thought of a new role for him.

 

[zferolie]

Even though Ridley's files were found in the 3DS version doesn't mean anything. His files are there saying he was planned to be an enemy. That doesn't mean he definitely will be one in the Wii U version. It means they scrapped the idea of him being an enemy on the 3DS version for some reason or they tinkered with it for a little while, gave up, and thought of a new role for him.

wait they found ridley files? I must have missed that

 

[VenomSymbiote]

Actually, Mewtwo's trophy model in Smash 3DS is not modeled off of his current game design, and more on his anime movie design.
For comparison:

Game

First movie

Smash 3ds trophy

I don't remember Mewtwo being more Kangaroo than Pokemon in the first movie... this makes me appreciate the trophy, and hopefully ingame roster model, far more.

With regards to Ridley's SSE data being ported over, the Ridley fight was originally supposed to be against Dyna Blade, who is in the Tower of Smash leak. Perhaps they're giving it back to Dyna Blade.

Have the data of all Subspace bosses been ported over or only certain ones? And of course, some may have been ported to the Wii U version and not the 3DS, which we'd know nothing about. Or all of this could just be plain cut.

I've read that about Dyna Blade before too, so that would be nice if the left over data found was being used for him instead of Ridley. Would they keep the files named the same, though, and not rename them Dynablade?

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Could we please get some sources for what was found in the game? I'm becoming increasingly leery about things people are saying were found in the 3DS ROM, and the information is being given to us in language that suggests somebody else has already made the conclusions for us. We should be holding this information to the same scrutiny as the leak, even more so since there supposedly should be evidence of it. Maybe I'm just not keeping up with the right threads...

As a software developer, I'd like to be able to see what's been found so I can decide what it tells me. I just don't have the means of downloading and decrypting the ROM.

 

[Meta_Ridley]

Could we please get some sources for what was found in the game? I'm becoming increasingly leery about things people are saying were found in the 3DS ROM, and the information is being given to us in language that suggests somebody else has already made the conclusions for us. We should be holding this information to the same scrutiny as the leak, even more so since there supposedly should be evidence of it. Maybe I'm just not keeping up with the right threads...

As a software developer, I'd like to be able to see what's been found so I can decide what it tells me. I just don't have the means of downloading and decrypting the ROM.

Yeah, good point. My bad.

Anyone have evidence of this stuff? I'm too lazy to go look for it right now :U

 

[Strofirko]

Entire files here:
http://pastebin.com/eQFB1v28

Nabbit and magikoopa,were confirmed to appear on the new super mario bros wiiu stage,funny ridley seems listed with the brawl scrapped bosses AND between the smash run enemies.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Entire files here:
http://pastebin.com/eQFB1v28

But what about lucas, wolf, squirtle, ivysaur and the ice climbers?

 

[Naoshi]

Actually, Mewtwo's trophy model in Smash 3DS is not modeled off of his current game design, and more on his anime movie design.
For comparison:

Game

First movie

Smash 3ds trophy

That Mewtwo art is from FR/LG if I'm not mistaken. He sort of changed a bit since then.

Although I'm having issues findign Mewtwo's model from X/Y.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

That Mewtwo art is from FR/LG if I'm not mistaken. He sort of changed a bit since then.

Although I'm having issues findign Mewtwo's model from X/Y.

That's what he looked like in X and Y, A lot larger than I would have thought

 

[Strofirko]

But what about lucas, wolf, squirtle, ivysaur and the ice climbers?

I think these ones were removed for good. But ice climbers chant were found on the japanese version.

Also 2 reminders.
Reminder Number one: some NPCs on smash bros 3DS has more than one role on the game some examples:
Pacman ghosts:Assist trophy,part of pacman moveset and enemy on pacmaze.
Starman:Assist trophy and enemy on smash run.
Cucco:Item and enemy on smash run.
Gordo: Part of DDD moveset and enemy on smash run.
Hammer bro.:Enemy on smash run and assist trophy.

Reminder number 2:If Ridley indeed is the main atracction of the metroid stage(and not the rising lava),we could expect something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkhrRECmFZ0

(At last on the dead alive he is badass)

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Thank you. I didn't have a lot of time to go over it, but within a few minutes I found myself coming to the same conclusions being presented above. Here's what convinced me...

sound/se/snd_se_minigame_Sbomb.nus3bank
sound/se/snd_se_minigame_Playable_roll_c.nus3bank
sound/se/snd_se_item_add.nus3bank
sound/se/snd_se_Simple.nus3bank
sound/se/snd_se_minigame_Playable_roll_f.nus3bank
sound/se/snd_se_Watch.nus3bank
sound/se/snd_se_Wsmash.nus3bank
sound/se/snd_se_minigame_Rush.nus3bank
sound/se/snd_se_narration_characall.nus3bank
sound/se/snd_se_item.nus3bank
sound/se/snd_se_narration_common.nus3bank
sound/se/snd_se_fs_common.nus3bank
sound/se/snd_se_minigame_Homerun.nus3bank
sound/se/snd_se_minigame_Coinshooter.nus3bank
sound/se/snd_se_minigame_Cleagetter.nus3bank
sound/se/snd_se_minigame_Target.nus3bank

The text file reveals a few 'minigames' that definitely aren't in 3DS. One of those is 'Coinshooter,' likely referring to the coin shooting game in Brawl. We also have a 'target' game, which probably isn't 'Target Blast' because then what would 'Sbomb' up above be?

This takes us back to the same two possibilities we keep tossing around:
- Nintendo didn't bother scrubbing this file for scrapped content, or
- The files are present for Wii U information that can be accessed by using the 3DS as a controller for Wii U.

I find it unlikely that Wii U is getting the 'Coin Shooter' minigame, unless they've been extra lazy. Target, on the other hand, might be a confirmation of 'Break the Targets,' or I could be wrong and it is 'Target Blast' and 'Sbomb' is some other mode we didn't get (or one we did get under a weird name).

What does that mean for Ridley? Well... pretty much what everyone's been saying. Looks like at one point he was intended to be a Smash Run boss. I noticed 'brontoburt' a few lines above his name, and I remember seeing him once as a special event in Smash Run - seems likely that Ridley would've been the same, especially since his Brawl boss data was copied over. The fact that he's not present either means they started and gave up, or they started and then he was upgraded to playable.

My takeaway from this is that his name amongst the Smash Run enemies definitely doesn't discredit him in the leak - if anything, his name combined with his absence actually adds to it.

 

[Tumbleweed Tuner]

"Lets take away Mewtwos cool dark voice and make him talk like a cat."

If Mewtwo is in the game, I would actually like to have his thunderthighs model. It is like the Mewtwo from the movie, which I have on VSH tape.

 

[VenomSymbiote]

[

Thank you. I didn't have a lot of time to go over it, but within a few minutes I found myself coming to the same conclusions being presented above. Here's what convinced me...



The text file reveals a few 'minigames' that definitely aren't in 3DS. One of those is 'Coinshooter,' likely referring to the coin shooting game in Brawl. We also have a 'target' game, which probably isn't 'Target Blast' because then what would 'Sbomb' up above be?

This takes us back to the same two possibilities we keep tossing around:
- Nintendo didn't bother scrubbing this file for scrapped content, or
- The files are present for Wii U information that can be accessed by using the 3DS as a controller for Wii U.

I find it unlikely that Wii U is getting the 'Coin Shooter' minigame, unless they've been extra lazy. Target, on the other hand, might be a confirmation of 'Break the Targets,' or I could be wrong and it is 'Target Blast' and 'Sbomb' is some other mode we didn't get (or one we did get under a weird name).

What does that mean for Ridley? Well... pretty much what everyone's been saying. Looks like at one point he was intended to be a Smash Run boss. I noticed 'brontoburt' a few lines above his name, and I remember seeing him once as a special event in Smash Run - seems likely that Ridley would've been the same, especially since his Brawl boss data was copied over. The fact that he's not present either means they started and gave up, or they started and then he was upgraded to playable.

My takeaway from this is that his name amongst the Smash Run enemies definitely doesn't discredit him in the leak - if anything, his name combined with his absence actually adds to it.

I'd love it if he was upgraded to playable but what would make them do that? Like, why wouldn't they plan him playable from the start?

 

[Deleted member]

Well, that's different. Both Ridley and Isaac have already appeared in a smash game before, Layton hasn't.

That's a key factor. Ridley has been in every Smash game in some capacity (background character in 64, intro & trophy in Melee, both Ridley & Meta Ridley as bosses in Brawl), and Isaac made his debut in Brawl as an AT with many people thinking he'd join Little Mac as those who made the ascention. When they disappear entirely, people are gonna notice.

I mean, I can understand the argument about a Cooking Mama or a Phoenix Wright, but they have yet to appear in Smash Bros. in any capacity. It's not that it holds no water, but it is a lot more difficult to discuss.

 

[Kevandre]

I think that if Metroid gets a third rep, DK needs to as well. If ToS is legit, then we will... But I'd be irritated if Metroid had more than Donkey Kong. Even if two of the reps are the same character in a different outfit.

 

[VenomSymbiote]

I think that if Metroid gets a third rep, DK needs to as well. If ToS is legit, then we will... But I'd be irritated if Metroid had more than Donkey Kong. Even if two of the reps are the same character in a different outfit.

I want Ridley more than anything but I agree. If FE can have 4 and KI can have 3, there's no reason DK and Metroid shouldn't have at least 3. You could argue that DK deserves four by now to be honest, too.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

This ToS rumor just seems more and more legit as the days pass by. I think it all comes down to that Kirby stage...if it even is a stage.
Heck...it could very well be the ToS itself.

 

[Naoshi]

That's what he looked like in X and Y, A lot larger than I would have thought

Thanks, I was looking for the battle model.

The way they make his face in the battle model looks weird, it lacks that vertical line for his angry expression. You can see it there in the FRLG artwork and the overworld model. But Smash 4 trophy and the battle model lacks that... Kind of makes his face look a bit weird

 

[VenomSymbiote]

Thanks, I was looking for the battle model.

The way they make his face in the battle model looks weird, it lacks that vertical line for his angry expression. You can see it there in the FRLG artwork and the overworld model. But Smash 4 trophy and the battle model lacks that... Kind of makes his face look a bit weird

Maybe after finding people that weren't like the asshats who created him his anger subsided? Seemed to be how the first movie ended.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Maybe after finding people that weren't like the ******s who created him his anger subsided? Seemed to be how the first movie ended.

 

[tomvoxx]

Oh mewtwo, don't you know everyone is going crazy that you're still not back in Smash Bros? We all love you!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh mewtwo, don't you know everyone is going crazy that you're still not back in Smash Bros? We all love you!

Speaking realistically, I'm surprised that there's quite a lot of people apathetic to him still not being playable again. I've seen no one outright glad though. That I remember.

Albeit, while I want him back, I do think it's a partial good thing that Sakurai subverts people's expectations. I just feel he does it too much and may cause enough backlash to lose sales. That said, I'm fine with the Pokemon lineup, but DK and Metroid's lineup is really poor by now. KI getting two new ones(okay, truthfully one, the other was a last second clone) kind of makes this look annoying. The Mario series getting 7(and 7 more alts that effectively are different characters, except for their movesets and animations to a degree) when Yoshi doesn't even have 2 annoys me slightly.

That said, until the Wii U release and potential DLC, I'm not sure I can legitimatley complain about a "final roster" just yet. Thankfully I have a blog for this. XD

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Speaking realistically, I'm surprised that there's quite a lot of people apathetic to him still not being playable again. I've seen no one outright glad though. That I remember.

Albeit, while I want him back, I do think it's a partial good thing that Sakurai subverts people's expectations. I just feel he does it too much and may cause enough backlash to lose sales. That said, I'm fine with the Pokemon lineup, but DK and Metroid's lineup is really poor by now. KI getting two new ones(okay, truthfully one, the other was a last second clone) kind of makes this look annoying. The Mario series getting 7(and 7 more alts that effectively are different characters, except for their movesets and animations to a degree) when Yoshi doesn't even have 2 annoys me slightly.

That said, until the Wii U release and potential DLC, I'm not sure I can legitimatley complain about a "final roster" just yet. Thankfully I have a blog for this. XD

I think that in terms of each series reps they are all represented well but overall, the roster feels EXTREMELY unbalanced when put together

7 Mario (With 7 alt characters)
1 Yoshi
1 Wario
2 DK
5 Zelda
2 Metroid
3 Kid icarus
4 Fire emblem
3 Kirby
1 Punch out
2 Star Fox
5 Pokemon
1 Mother
1 F-Zero
1 Pikmin (and an alt character)
1 Animal Crossing
1 Wii Fit
1 Xenoblade
1 Pac
1 Mega
1 Sonic

the 5 from ToS would completely fix this issue (Except for star fox, R.I.P wolf)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think that in terms of each series reps they are all represented well but overall, the roster feels EXTREMELY unbalanced when put together
I mean
7 Mario (With 7 alt characters)
1 Yoshi
1 Wario
2 DK
5 Zelda
2 Metroid
3 Kid icarus
4 Fire emblem
3 Kirby
1 Punch out
2 Star Fox
5 Pokemon
1 Mother
1 F-Zero
1 Pikmin (and an alt character)
1 Animal Crossing
1 Wii Fit
1 Xenoblade
1 Pac
1 Mega
1 Sonic

the 5 from ToS would completely fix this issue (Except for star fox, R.I.P wolf)

StarFox having two is still nice, I admit. Better than Yoshi having one.

http://nintendoeverything.com/pokem...vc-games-smash-bros-mega-evolutions-and-more/ Also, the "Gamefreak has control" argument was just killed. Sakurai fully decided this. Now we wonder why. And yeah, only he could've spoken up about whether Mewtwo could be in Smash or not. He didn't have to, but how can Gamefreak when Sakurai decides it, right?