Toronto and Surrounding GTA Pokérankings

[Dragon_Hawk]

#1 - I duno man. No offense but I don't think you're better than Ryan. Have you even beat him before? He's placed higher than you, ambrose, Imadh and Daniel at the biweeklies he's attended so far. I think we can agree on that.

#2 - Nate shouldn't be that low, no matter how much you dislike him.

#3 - David shouldn't be that high, no matter how much you like him.

#4 - I can't talk much about Daniel's position that list...he doesn't come to tournies. As such, I sort of agree that he either move down or like show up or something. Its unfair to reserve a spot for someone who doesn't put the time and effort to show up. Not doubting his commitment. Just saying.

dont hate me Dan =D

#1 - Ryan is not great (he's good; not great). I beat Ryan. It was a 2-0 and my first stage was one of the ones he wants in the matchup imho (FoD). Perhaps I only won with my ICs by virtue of Doc vs ICs and how they have a 6-4 or whatever it is with him but if that's the case then Mike's point is proven. His character selection wrecks him for me. If he disagrees he can ask for a rematch and I'll accept. Even with me as rusty as I am.

#2 - Nate has lost to Mike, me, Noah, Jake and yourself at most biweeklies, tourneys, etc. (Editor's Note: My Fox has beaten Nate yay go me on his counterpick).

#3 - I agree. I say 5 or 6.

#4 - Could care less.

 

[Runawayfire]

^Regardless of matchup, I'll state again. The record of me vs you (euro) is still 2-1 for me.

Me and David's matches are close as hell everytime, regardless of matchup, same with Imadh.... and everyone else above me. No johns, I lost the matches I lost thats why people are higher then me. The door could swing the other way any second though.

I'll ask the players I was just talking about to back me up if you think I'm on the mark. Or if you think our matches weren't actually hella close then tell me too.

 

[Europhoria]

^ MM, 20$ on the cube. Jiggs v. Marth.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm pimpressed. <--- that word I just made up is sick btw

Minimal trash talk! With someone intelligent discussion! On a pr thread. Mike, your list is pretty controversial, I'll give you that.

 

[Grmo]

Low tier mains tend to be cool, regardless of whether or not they have a hat.

Seriously though, the current metagame is really calling for anyone above (or including) Samus so it's tough to decide where low tier players place. I say kudos to the low tier players for not giving up on them and whoring high tiers the way I did.

PS. lol Jake, nice word

 

[Europhoria]

^ I'm willing to like justify it with reasoning and stuff. It's clearly not perfect however. And I'm very against the whole tied for first concept.

Edit: Yeah, I do like their dedication. I gave up on Yoshi ages ago.

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

@ Nate: Err... regarding our last tourney set, I don't think our first Sheik/Jiggs match in that set was particularly close until I started killing myself for you. Brinstar is filthy and I think I'll be banning that next time. Umm... Ics vs Jiggs hurts the Ics but it was my counterpick so yeah it was close I suppose.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, but that decision remains in Noah's and my hands. We both agree that we go so absolutely even against each other, it's very back and forth. Noah beat me at this tournament, I beat him at Seasons.

If we had 1st and 2nd, it would be changing every PR. Trust me on this one.

Also, our friendship would have many heated battles lmao ^_^

 

[Europhoria]

^ Bernard mentioned this. About it being harder for someone to move up though. In case they get more worthy then either of you for 2nd; or are we doing a 3 way tie for first? xD

 

[Deleted member]

It will take ages for Bernard to pass us, we have too many tournaments under our belts.

 

[Europhoria]

^ I'm just saying in the hypothetical situation it's detrimental, etc.

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

Seriously though, the current metagame is really calling for anyone above (or including) Samus so it's tough to decide where low tier players place. I say kudos to the low tier players for not giving up on them and whoring high tiers the way I did.

PS. lol Jake, nice word

Our top 3 players are Peaches and space animals right now. Right now I hear Marth calling.

Why does the world hate Sheik?

 

[unknown522]

^ Same list I told Nate.

#1 Noah
#2 Jake
#3 Bernard
#4 David
#5 Imadh
#6 Ambrose
#7 Daniel
#8 Myself
#9 Ryan
#10 Nate

lol y would I be 9th? I place higher than every 1 up to 4th in the PR, and I've beaten just about every1 below daniel some time or another.

 

[Europhoria]

^ Character selection.

 

[Chaotic Yoshi]

Character selection? Is this a rankings or a tier list?

If ryan's constantly placing 5th or higher in tournaments even with doc, he should be around 5th or higher. Not 9th because he plays doc...

 

[Europhoria]

^ Tournament placing does not always determine your talent. Example, Volasko got 4th at SoS but he definitely wasn't the 4th best player in that room.

 

[unknown522]

even still, I play fox too and I win a lot + in the 2 bi-weeklys that most ppl have been, I've placed 4th or higher (above every1 up to 4th on the PR [daniel, amberose, and david weren't at this bi-weekly]). Still I counter a lot of marth players with doc, if I lose with fox. It doesn't matter about the character all of the time. If I win that match up, then doesn't it mean that I'm better than the other person? It's not like I play only doc tho

 

[Europhoria]

^ I know it doesn't always matter. Clearly there are more Marth mains in the city then me and Imadh. God, if was doing this as a tier list you wouldn't be on the list. You're an excellent player. But see what I said to Coolhat?

For a low tier to win a match up that is grossly in the favour of the opponent the low tier has to hideously out-play the opponent. For example, you out-play say Seed with Doc and win. However, it is much harder, if not utterly impossible to out-play someone who is on your skill level. Thus, Doc shouldn't be winning.

 

[RaynEX]

Ryan suffers from the same problem that Coolhat does. His character selection ***** him. Ergo, if only by virtue of my character I do better. Please put me against him in brackets.

Wow.

Mike...your a cool guy, so please don't take this the wrong way. You can't beat Ryan's Doc with Marth. He WILL ridiculously outplay you. I agree, Doc gets ***** by Marth. But does that mean you lower him on the PR (at least in your mind), regardless of how well he actually plays? In the words of the ****ing amazing Chaotic, this ISN'T a tier list. Thankfully, tournaments and PRs aren't decided by virtue of character; moreso by actual skill and ability to beat players despite who they decide to choose.

Simple example: Imahd is good, no argument there. Is he better than Mike? He places higher, so I'd assume so. Or by virtue of character...maybe you're tied. God knows :S Nevertheless...

Ryan beat him in a singles set, with Doc, against his Marth. Face him and see if his character selection ***** him. I'd be happy to sit by and watch him **** the sh*t out of your Marth. Not because you aren't good, but simply because he is much, much better.

 

[Europhoria]

His Doc won't beat me though... Unlike Imadh I understand that match up however in all fairness to Imadh I think I'm the only Marth in the city that does. It's an obscure and awkward fight so I don't expect him to.

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

Simple example: Imahd is good, no argument there. Is he better than Mike? He places higher, so I'd assume so. Or by virtue of character...maybe you're tied. God knows :S Nevertheless...

Ryan beat him in a singles set, with Doc, against his Marth. Face him and see if his character selection ***** him. I'd be happy to sit by and watch him **** the sh*t out of your Marth. Not because you aren't good, but simply because he is much, much better.

I beat both of them. I am winnar.

See, whenever I don't have to play Bernard, Jake or Noah early I do well. Everyone else I beat except Daniel and T8 was a while ago. I don't find myself too concerned with him atm but whatever. I don't lose to Imadh, Nate, Ryan, Mike or Chris. I lost to Chaotic once, fine, I ***** him at every other tournament but whatever we can ignore that I guess. I beat Ambrose to the point where he's gone through Falco, ICs and Fox in an attempt to coutnerpick me. I believe he's now onto the Sheik ditto (little do they know I used to main the ICs and am considering doing so again).

I lose to three people consistently (don't worry Bernard, honey, I'll catch up once I get rid of this oxidized iron that seems to alter my ability to play correctly). They are the top three. Everyone else is meh. Fine. I'll count Daniel. But if he's losing to Ambrose, Nate and Imadh then he's got his own set of problems to deal with (no hate there but an observation no flames please).

I'm pointing out that I'm probably where I should be. I'm not great. But going purely by numbers is silly because I'm not *that* bad at this. Not top 4? Fine, give it to someone with a better record. But anyone below the top three is free to challenge me on my remarks.

 

[RaynEX]

Ryan is not great (he's good; not great). I beat Ryan. It was a 2-0 and my first stage was one of the ones he wants in the matchup imho (FoD). Perhaps I only won with my ICs by virtue of Doc vs ICs and how they have a 6-4 or whatever it is with him but if that's the case then Mike's point is proven. His character selection wrecks him for me.

What is it with you two and "by virtue of _____". Screw the match-up. You won only one set; that was also his first time fighting a competent ICs. You beat me when I faced your ICs numerous times when we first met. Did it take away from the fact that I was actually good? No. So why should it be any different in Ryan's case?

If he disagrees he can ask for a rematch and I'll accept. Even with me as rusty as I am.

My friend "John" said the same thing.

 

[Europhoria]

^ Despite the myth that you and the rest of NNR seem to buy into, match ups actually matter.

 

[unknown522]

c'mon u can't say that tho. If I still beat majority of ppl with my doc, doesn't that mean I should be higher in the tier list? The only ppl that play high tier that I actually lose to is bernard (maybe), jake, and noah, and they're 1-3 in the PR. Have I actually ever lost to anyone else with my doc? tell me that. I may not have had too hard of a bracket @ this past tourney (besides bernar and jake which I lost to) but the tourney before I had a pretty hard bracket and a decent pool.

No offense to Imadh or any other names I bring up, but he can tell u this too but I beat imadh's marth in the bi-weekly (putting him in losers bracket) a month ago with only doc (the last one was close tho cuz I lost a big lead).

I beat nate (though it was close since I did a jiggz ditto in the second match)

I beat bernard in the first round of david's bi-weekly (close cuz I gimped him last stock), and he beat me in the loser finals 3-0.

Yea I lost to david @ charles' tourney (though it was close and I SD'd once or twice per match at low damage), but didn't I place higher @ his bi-weekly after?

I beat amberose @ charles' place (though I CG'd him the whole first and last match)

I lost to daniel in pools 2-1 (though it was really close), but I placed higher

I beat u in pools @ david's tourney 2-0, and placed higher in both tourneys

Chris placed pretty high in this tourney as well (6th probably) only cuz I knocked him out of the tourney. He probably could've placed higher other wise.

OK. Lets's see david take on my fox, then we'll see.

There's more stuff that, but I can't remember.

 

[Europhoria]

^ Face me in brackets, or David lol. Basically face someone who won't play the match up like a total idiot...

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

What is it with you two and "by virtue of _____". Screw the match-up. You won only one set; that was also his first time fighting a competent ICs.

Umm... wait. You're calling me out on a John and then making an excuse for why he lost? Also we had plenty of friendlies earlier before that biweekly with his Mario vs ICs when you guys came over. Please do not argue that Mario/ICs is different than Doc/ICs.

You beat me when I faced your ICs numerous times when we first met. Did it take away from the fact that I was actually good? No. So why should it be any different in Ryan's case?

Because you actually were really good and by "beating numerous times" we were going even and I think I was still losing most of the games. Guy, we've been trading back and forth for a while now. IIRC last time you came over I lost three times with Sheik and won twice with ICs. You do better than me in our games and he doesn't. Friendlies and our tournament set. Or is there something I forget.

 

[unknown522]

Ryan is not great (he's good; not great). I beat Ryan. It was a 2-0 and my first stage was one of the ones he wants in the matchup imho (FoD). Perhaps I only won with my ICs by virtue of Doc vs ICs and how they have a 6-4 or whatever it is with him but if that's the case then Mike's point is proven. His character selection wrecks him for me.

since u wanna put it that way, first off doc vs ICs is a 7-3 in ur favor, and FOD is not in my favor.

second, u were lucky enough that I SD'd once or twice per match at low damage.

third, I was stupid enough to not pick fox and decided to try again (which is the match where I SD'd twice) and should've won that match still but instead of the f-smash input, he did a dash attack if u remember.

fourth, just because u beat me for the first time in ur life doesn't mean ur better than me. How many times did I beat u mario vs ICs (where I didn't SD) and OWN u fox vs ICs? Ever consider that?

 

[Europhoria]

^ What the hell? I thought all your NNR folks said match ups don't matter?

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

since u wanna put it that way, first off doc vs ICs is a 7-3 in ur favor, and FOD is not in my favor.

second, u were lucky enough that I SD'd once or twice per match at low damage.

third, I was stupid enough to not pick fox and decided to try again (which is the match where I SD'd twice) and should've won that match still but instead of the f-smash input, he did a dash attack if u remember

First, if you want a rematch you can ask (I'll probably be Sheik, though, given I main her but for nostalgia I can be ICs for you). And the matchup chart is a silly reference given they destroy their own credibility by putting Kirby 4-6 with Sheik, which is in actuality a 2-8 matchup (or worse).

Second... yes, I remember. I SDed in our second game and Nana killed herself twice on edgehogs in the first. I'm not going to argue they weren't screwy matches but why are you using your own mistakes as points as to why you should be higher?

Third, I do better versus Fox given the extensive practice versus Ambrose and - when he's around - Bernard. Matchups are good on paper and all but really I prefer fighting Fox.

 

[unknown522]

Match ups do matter, but he said it's a 6-4 and FOD's in my favor. Both are not true. Still, match ups don't mean that the other person will win all of the time (especially if that person is better than the other). Still I can choose fox whenever I want which david has never beaten yet. No?

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

^ Fair enough although using Phanna's matchup chart is imho a silly reference given how screwy it is.

Most people like platforms vs the ICs because it gives them somewhere to hurt Nana and hide and spam (it works for Peach, Samus, etc, etc, etc and it's relevant for Doc). Note how you counterpicked to Yoshi's which is a stage that shares several similarities with FoD.

And I have no problems facing your Fox. lol I'm going to see you tomorrow right?

 

[unknown522]

yea, most likely. I'll see u then

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

Awesome lol.

No hate guy. I'm just posting input.

 

[RaynEX]

tomorrow? wha? I'm coming.

 

[Runawayfire]

There's a lot I could reply to, but I'll just keep it simple.

This is not theory fighter. In theory Doc and Jiggs should never beat people, but the reality is they do.

There is no way you can place yourself above someone when your tournament results are far from equaling theirs just because in THEORY you should beat them.

Aaaaand just to add again David..... you've never been worried of Daniel. At T8 he was the last person on your mind... and then he beat you 2 sets in a row on like no sleep. So wether or not you're worried about him means nothing. (I'd also like to note that I dont know why people are saying he has trouble with Imadh... seeing as Imadh has never beaten him in a tourny set...)

Edit: Oh and Mike, I'm too broke to be doing things like that, just play me in a tourny set.

 

[RaynEX]

Aaaaand just to add again David..... you've never been worried of Daniel. At T8 he was the last person on your mind... and then he beat you 2 sets in a row on like no sleep.

Woah...I didn't know that.

I love PR beef.

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

@ Nate:

Imadh beat him in a MM.

And Daniel wasn't *that* low on my mind... but the people I was worried about were Bernard and you.

 

[RaynEX]

Can't wait to see some big changes on the PR. By the looks of things at the last tourny, alot of people have been getting better. ^^

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

Hehehe I have some catching up to do.

 

[RaynEX]

aren't you going to marco's today?