Toon Link Q&A and FAQ Thread <- VISIT THIS THREAD BEFORE CREATING A NEW TOPIC

[copacetic]

So I really need to figure out how to beat MK before Pound 4. I'm pretty sure I can beat almost any snake now. Not consistently, but at least enough to take a game in a large enough set and make each match close. But Fatal went MK on me yesterday and I got owned. He almost two stocked me in one of our games.

So mainly I want to know, how do I beat tornado? Like when they come from the side? I always DI up and out of it before the last hit and then get hit by another before I hit the ground. And obviously I'm not playing an MK bad enough that they can get hit by a dair, they come from the side (and wait long enough that bair won't hit).

If I have my second jump I'm fine but without it I'm trapped.

 

[MJG]

So I really need to figure out how to beat MK before Pound 4. I'm pretty sure I can beat almost any snake now. Not consistently, but at least enough to take a game in a large enough set and make each match close. But Fatal went MK on me yesterday and I got owned. He almost two stocked me in one of our games.

So mainly I want to know, how do I beat tornado? Like when they come from the side? I always DI up and out of it before the last hit and then get hit by another before I hit the ground. And obviously I'm not playing an MK bad enough that they can get hit by a dair, they come from the side (and wait long enough that bair won't hit).

If I have my second jump I'm fine but without it I'm trapped.

I usually get caught in the tornado when coming up from the stage....or if im approaching MK, which is something that you should be doing to often. And you can't get out of it easily unless they catch you in their tornado when you are above it. It might just be me but from what you said it seems like you are approaching MK, rather than playing a "hit-and-run" strategy. Bombs stop tornado and I will sometimes try to bait the tornado (only if they are near the ledge) and spike them out of it with dair (you have to hit them at the center of the tornado). A lot of our moves will stop tornado during the first 5 frames of tornado but the chances of that happening is slim to none..

 

[copacetic]

a bomb does wonders and I can hold my own besides that, but the situation I'm talking about is more like this:

-no bomb
-no second jump
-MK coming from the side (no dair)
-MK waiting til after first 5 frames
-MK captures and releases high enough above the stage to repeat this strategy

I got hit by like 5 in a row and I honestly couldn't do anything but SDI out of it

 

[Kaffei]

a bomb does wonders and I can hold my own besides that, but the situation I'm talking about is more like this:

-no bomb
-no second jump
-MK coming from the side (no dair)
-MK waiting til after first 5 frames
-MK captures and releases high enough above the stage to repeat this strategy

I got hit by like 5 in a row and I honestly couldn't do anything but SDI out of it

Bombs, bair and zair are your best tools in this MU

 

[copacetic]

...yeah, I know that. and actually zair isn't too great. but that's still beside the point. my question is for a situation, not the matchup.

 

[Kaffei]

Well the only way you can beat tornado is by using bombs, dairing the top of nado, or attacking him in the VERY early frames of nado.. or shield.. ._.

 

[Hyro]

for real lol. just shield. you shouldn't even be IN the situation you described. That's like saying:

"Ok, I'm offstage, no double jump, don't have time to airdodge/bombpull/boomerang because I'll die. Mk is coming at me, about to dair, what do I do?"

...you get gimped, that's what you do lol.

if for some reason you really DO get in that situation, DI offstage and grab the ledge because he eventually has to take his nado back onstage. If not, pull a bomb when you bounce up, he nados again, boom.

 

[Chaosgriffin]

Hey there Toon Link people, I was wondering. How well does Toon link do on battlefield? good - neutral - bad?

 

[Sosuke]

Battlefield is one of TLs better stages.

 

[MJG]

Well the only way you can beat tornado is by using bombs, dairing the top of nado, or attacking him in the VERY early frames of nado.. or shield.. ._.

Basically what I Said >_>.

Hyro pretty much covered your problem as well ;o

EDIT: If MK captures you and releases high enough above the stage like you said and then proceeds on using tornado again, you should catch on by this point and avoid >_>. Easier said than done

 

[Thebest1pj]

( we knew about the brinstar split the stage in half with one throw of our boomerang right?

 

[copacetic]

( we knew about the brinstar split the stage in half with one throw of our boomerang right?

yes. and one zair. and I think just one up-b? And you can walljump off the broken part

and thank you hyro. DI-ing towards the edge should be enough, though a SL would kill easily at that point. and he actually got me into this using a tornado offstage when I was up-b'ing back on. it went through my boomerang, then i didn't have enough time to throw my bomb after the first tornado so it exploded sending me higher. Now I'm in the air above the stage, more time than it takes to airdodge back down, and not enough time to get away/ pull a bomb and not at the right angle to zair/dair/bair.

It happened once and I got ****ed by it like 5 times since I literally had no chance to do anything, it was a very good trap on his part, one that I probably won't fall for again, but if I'm in that situation I just wanted to know how to get out of it.

I don't care that it's unlikely, it happened once, so now I want to know what to do if I'm hit with it again. It's like another character figuring out what they can do against a bcd gimp or shield break. Just because its highly unlikely doesn't mean it's impossible, so it's good to be prepared.

 

[Kaffei]

yes. and one zair. and I think just one up-b? And you can walljump off the broken part

and thank you hyro. DI-ing towards the edge should be enough, though a SL would kill easily at that point. and he actually got me into this using a tornado offstage when I was up-b'ing back on. it went through my boomerang, then i didn't have enough time to throw my bomb after the first tornado so it exploded sending me higher. Now I'm in the air above the stage, more time than it takes to airdodge back down, and not enough time to get away/ pull a bomb and not at the right angle to zair/dair/bair.

It happened once and I got ****ed by it like 5 times since I literally had no chance to do anything, it was a very good trap on his part, one that I probably won't fall for again, but if I'm in that situation I just wanted to know how to get out of it.

I don't care that it's unlikely, it happened once, so now I want to know what to do if I'm hit with it again. It's like another character figuring out what they can do against a bcd gimp or shield break. Just because its highly unlikely doesn't mean it's impossible, so it's good to be prepared.

I don't think you should really be worrying about your shield breaking unless you shield a LOT.

 

[copacetic]

I don't think you should really be worrying about your shield breaking unless you shield a LOT.

what? did you read what I wrote at all? I'm not at all worried about a shield break. just comparing the likelihoods.

 

[Kaffei]

what? did you read what I wrote at all? I'm not at all worried about a shield break. just comparing the likelihoods.

Wtf are you using that tone for? Yes, I read everything. -___-
The MU is gay.

 

[Sosuke]

Maybe I should run some test with the tornado later today.

 

[Kaffei]

Maybe I should run some test with the tornado later today.

We'd appreciate it if you came back with the results.

 

[PZ]

I found a new tech but im not sure how to explain. Use upb on the edge if you fall while in the upb animation without going up at all then you are doing this tech. Make sure you catch the edge if not you will die and also a lv9 cpu red tl showed me this tech in a tb O_o then me and my friend did it a few times after the match. I got the original replay for this so if you want the RAW info pm me.

 

[Sosuke]

That's not new.

 

[Kaffei]

I found a new tech but im not sure how to explain. Use upb on the edge if you fall while in the upb animation without going up at all then you are doing this tech. Make sure you catch the edge if not you will die and also a lv9 cpu red tl showed me this tech in a tb O_o then me and my friend did it a few times after the match. I got the original replay for this so if you want the RAW info pm me.

This has already been discovered. Thank you for your input.

 

[PZ]

Well its kinda funny that the cpu learned it before me lulz

 

[Kaffei]

Well its kinda funny that the cpu learned it before me lulz

Lmao, wow.

 

[Dre89]

Hey guys I was just wondering why no one spotdodges or rolls bomb explosions, as in when you're holding a bomb in your hand, and you spotdodge or roll when it explodes.

To me it seemed like a pretty good idea, spotdodging a bomb and hitting the oppoent seemed to me like it could lead into some nice things, because I'm guessing it'd surprise the opponent.

I'm sure everyone already knows this, but considering that with rolls you can make the bomb explode where you were standing just before you rolled, during the roll, or even after the roll (although you get hit too), I just thought it could be a nice mix-up or could make rolls less punishable (I know that rolls are bad because they're punishable).

Now judging by the fact that no one does this, I'm guessing this is bad idea, but I'd like to know why for future reference, mainly so that I don't go trying it.

 

[TLMSheikant]

^ Why spotdodge the bomb when u can powershield/shield and usmash OoS?

 

[Hyro]

Hey guys I was just wondering why no one spotdodges or rolls bomb explosions, as in when you're holding a bomb in your hand, and you spotdodge or roll when it explodes.

To me it seemed like a pretty good idea, spotdodging a bomb and hitting the oppoent seemed to me like it could lead into some nice things, because I'm guessing it'd surprise the opponent.

I'm sure everyone already knows this, but considering that with rolls you can make the bomb explode where you were standing just before you rolled, during the roll, or even after the roll (although you get hit too), I just thought it could be a nice mix-up or could make rolls less punishable (I know that rolls are bad because they're punishable).

Now judging by the fact that no one does this, I'm guessing this is bad idea, but I'd like to know why for future reference, mainly so that I don't go trying it.

It's nooby.

Also, 7:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xv80hcz278#movie_player

 

[TLMSheikant]

^ and that. Something extremely situational also.

 

[TheJerm]

Rolling is generally a bad idea with TL. Lets say you roll with a bomb in your hand. 85% of top players can read TL's roll without trying. So they could easily see your roll, then punish.

Im sure most of us spotdodge or shield bombs though. There's also ibombing. We've been though this stuff for a good while now.

What I do now is SH bomb drop and have the bomb land on the floor. if your fighting a character thats agressive against you, like marth, MK etc, they'd hit your shield while the bomb is on the floor, cause them to get hit, and letting you follow up with just about whatever you'd like to.

LOL, hyro, that pit was pretty bad. That **** wont be that simple in texas =P

 

[MJG]

I think holding our shields up is more effective than the other choices IMO. We can react faster than half the cast because of our experience with bombs <3

 

[Thebest1pj]

I think holding our shields up is more effective than the other choices IMO. We can react faster than half the cast because of our experience with bombs <3

i agree i guess

 

[ICEing]

Just a quick question if someone can explain what AD catch and instathrow are? I need help in effectively using Diddys nanners against him D:

 

[UncleSam]

Just a quick question if someone can explain what AD catch and instathrow are? I need help in effectively using Diddys nanners against him D:

AD catch is exactly as it sounds you catch an item by air-dodging.
insathrowing is basically catching an item with your grab button (Z for a GC controller) and hitting the C-Stick in a direction right after you catch it.(control stick + A works as well, you get a longer toss with the C-stick smash throw...)

 

[Fatalzyntax]

Hi, I like to do footstool Dair with Marth.

How safe is it to use it with TL?

 

[Sosuke]

Just as safe is you land the footstool.

 

[ICEing]

AD catch is exactly as it sounds you catch an item by air-dodging.
insathrowing is basically catching an item with your grab button (Z for a GC controller) and hitting the C-Stick in a direction right after you catch it.(control stick + A works as well, you get a longer toss with the C-stick smash throw...)

Thanks. So the matchup summary vs Diddy near the end says you can AD insta catch to instathrow nanners on ground. This is done by air dodge near ground then cstick throw? I'm a little confused

 

[Hyro]

btw our footstool dair isn't guranteed. I don't do it anymore because everyone here in LA holds left/right and they'll still get footstooled but if you try to dair you'll miss them as they spin off to the direction they're holding... but I guess it'd still work on fatties like D3

 

[WindMajor]

Yup, although personally, I use A + Control Stick.

Either way is fine.

Edit: Hyro, your vid is lol.

I actually do something similar to that, and that's when I'm "trying" to get to the ground from above. I fast fall an iBomb to the ground near my opponent, and then I shield. If he tries to hit me, he gets hit with my bomb, if he doesn't, I shield my bomb and gtfo. It today was the first day I applied it in a tourney, and it worked better than I thought. Bad spacing can still get the best of you though.

 

[Pho]

Does anyone have frame data on Toon Link throwing bombs/projectiles in general? I looked in the frame data thread, and saw nothing of it. Wouldn't mind knowing that kind of information, as well as a jump-canceled throw(if there is any difference).

EDIT: I found frame data on Peach throwing turnips, but I'm gonna guess their animations differ from each character.

 

[2nLio]

Does anyone know why sometimes the hookshot doesnt grab the ledge even though you're clearly close enough for it to grab on?

It usually happens when youre fast falling, air dodge and press A and the hookshot comes out into the ledge yet it doesnt grab on. It looks a lot like the animation of the hookshot after you grabbed the ledge 3 times.


This has happened to me twice in tournament and it cost me two sets so I figured I should learn exactly why it does that.

 

[Mota]

Hmm that's also happened to me a few times as well.

Don't know why

 

[piZ]

Any tips for landing zairs? AD zair seems to work best when I can squeeze them in but I have real trouble landing regular sh zairs.. When is the best time to execute the zair during the sh? I guess it's a practice practice thing as well, but tips would be appreciated!