Toon Link Matchup Discussion: Peach

[MaskedAvnger]

Matchup Discussion: Peach

go.

 

[Meru.]

50-50.

The one who gets annoyed the most loses. Thats pretty much the most important thing in this match-up.

Ehh... TL outcamps Peach, but Peach can approach TL just fine (but not if the Peach is too float-happy, in that case its just **** for TL). TL loses up-close, but should kill earlier.

Not much to say, I find the match-up pretty simple... just dont get annoyed.

 

[Chsal]

I'm thinking Toon Link's favour.

We easily outcamp, and with your bomb experience, catching turnips is no problem.

Not sure about up close though.

And watch out for bombs/beamswords/WTF face turnips D=.

 

[QUIVO]

i don't really know this matchup. I just camp and hope to do well. I did this to Jerm when he was playing Peach in friendlies, and he asked, "Have i really been like this (gay/annoying) to Peaches?" He said something to that extent lol.

He also said something like, "No wonder I always beat Peach, this is so hard on her end."

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I dunno if Praxis/Chip still play (probably not). Does DTL play Meno? Does DTL even play TL anymore?

Basically, TL camps the crap out of Peach and Peach jumps around and shields incoming projectiles. Watch out for Turnips Peach throws but especially watch out for follow ups (such as Fair and Floating Dair)
Zair will cripple a Peach who approaches with Float (lol), as will projectiles. Her moves (such a Dair) will cancel out Arrows and Boomerangs, Bombs just explode. Peach will mostly be approaching from the ground, Turnip in hand and ready to punish any holes she sees with an OoS (or Glide Tossed) Turnip

...Yea I can't remember much about TL xD Its just one massive campfest. Just camp her and go for the kill when an opportunity presents itself

Bizzare note: The first hit of F Smash pops Peach up, where upon she can start a Float, causing the 2nd hit to miss. If I got hit by the first hit of TL's F Smash, I simply help X and I'd start Floating right over the 2nd hit

You might be able to get a 2nd hit in after the 1st hit if you catch Peach off guard but if Peach starts Floating, she basically gets a free aerial

 

[MJG]

Yea it is a pretty gay MU.

The only good peach I play is Nicole.

And I think we can both agree that it is not fun at all.

 

[lloDownedu74]

I think it's 45-55 TL's favor. TL outcamps Peach in so many ways, and his aerials can outrange Peach. Honestly, if Toon Link gets the first kill, then he wins. If Peach gets the first kill, then there's a good chance that she'll win, but TL can still take the lead and win. It's a sad MU D:

 

[Praxis]

TL wrecks Peach on FD; Jash two stocked me pretty hard. I was beating him on Battlefield and had a stock lead without that much damage, but Alex Strife pulled the plug on the match and we didn't get to play again.

Chip usually beat me back when we used to play; I played with Jerm a bunch, he won the first few friendlies, then I was winning most of the rest after that.

I dunno. It's definitely in TL's favor IMO, but probably just 55-45 as long as FD isn't in play. Peach should ban FD...counterpick to high ceilings?


Also, Chip is the best TL

 

[WindMajor]

Let's not change the topic now, eh Praxis?

 

[Rockan]

Bair stops a lot of her aerial approaches

and his bair beats like eveything they even beat the turnips, and peach gets juggled by toonlinks projectiles a lot.

And if she recovers to the ledge you can zair edge hog her recovery if you time it right.

I think the matchup is easily 60-40 maybe more in tls favor.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Hey, I was mentioned! I saw you guys were doing peach and felt like I should contribute as Peach is my most known MU and my teams partner.

The MU is 55-45 Toon Link FOR SURE.

God there's so much I have to say about this matchup but I don't really want to write three pages.

Alright, let me start off by saying I ****ing hate Peach. She is stupid and that is all. I play Meno all the time and Peachkid has stayed in CO twice now I believe, both of which times I have played him a lot.

Camping:
We win this one. Well...most of the time. When Peach pulls some bull**** like a beam sword or a bomb, she has the temporary camping advantage, but that's usually not the case, unless you're Meno so you pull a few of each of these a match. ****ing stupid *** Meno. Arrows do NOTHING in this matchup. NOTHING. She should never really be in a position to get hit by them and if she is, arrows still suck a ****. Bombs are pretty great, but they're only a little bit better then her turnips and Peach can control items significantly better. Boomerang...oh my god boomerang is great in the matchup. Peaches like to approach by floating at about Toon Link's head level, which is around where she usually auto cancels her fair (bull**** later to be discussed). Also returning rang seems to interrupt Peaches playstyle amazingly and, if you're Meno, combos into a kill move, which is everything on Peach.

Approaching, Punishing, close range combat:
Peach...for the most part wins here. Well, she definitely does win here, but we don't get murdered. At low percents Peach gets such bull**** combos which, if you want to get good at the MU, you have to learn to SDI out. It isn't fun getting dair'd 3 times to Uair to Utilt. It really isn't. She also has some Dthrow shenanigans at low percents but I don't think they're guaranteed like they are on MK. For the most part Peach will be floating around your shield trying to Fair you. This move, against Toon Link (and pretty much the entire cast) is completely safe on block. It auto cancels and puts you in a bad position. Peaches jab is 2 or 3 frames (I forget...) while Toon Link's fastest move is 6. Her Jab1 is also pretty safe on shield so Peaches will usually use this. This is where the guessing game starts. If you think she'll finish it, stay in shield and grab or nair. If you think she'll stop after one, nair then. If you think she'll spotdodge, wait and nair. Peach has SO many mixups here including roll away. The most annoying is just grabbing because they think you'll still be in your shield. Our Nair is pretty safe on her shield if spaced as is Zair. Zair>Grab never works on Peach. Her dair on shield is insanely hard to punish on shield, but if you think she's going to do it again, Utilt sometimes works. Her nair is never really safe on shield.

Air game:
Overall, Peach wins this one. Tink's bair spaced well beats out most of her options, but the fact that she can float is what puts it in her favor. She can always wait for the airdodge while floating, ready to nair or dair, or fair for the kills (which won't cuz she's Peach). Our Dair is a good option when the Peach thinks we'll airdodge into the stage. Peaches airdodge is TERRIBLE and it's really easy to just bair and if they airdodge, bair again. Uair always beats it.

Killing/Gimping:
OVERALL killing, Toon Link wins, which is sad. Lol Peach. Our Usmash works well here. When Peach is about to go in for the Fair, Toon Link can run and Usmash which usually trades, but we win because every Peach ever stales their fair. They have to. Her Usmash kill at 100%, but the sweet spot should never hit us. Ours kill around 115% but is easy to hit with. Fresh, her Fair kills REALLY well, but it's usually stale. Just watch out for fresh ones on new stocks. Our best place to kill her is the air. As stated, her airdodge is awful an it's too easy to get her with an Uair of Fair. Utilt is a great kill move for us as well. I get a lot of bair kills when on fresh stocks. Peach can kill Toon Link easily by gimping him. If you get fair'd offstage, it's quite likely you're not getting back. Turnips gimp well and her nair beats our UpB. Peach can also float next to the edge and edge hog right before we get to it. Soooo gay. Her vertical recovery is balls but you can sometimes fair her when she's floating back. Watch out though, because she can easily manouver around and fair you. If you're back far enough, you can Zair edgehog her recovery, but it usually won't happen. If you edge hog her upB and are above 100%, wait until your invincibility is about to run out then use get up attack. It should make her pass the edge.

Um...so a cool story. I was fighting Meno in tourney like always and have a full stock lead. He pulls a stitch face and hits me with it, sending me offstage. He pulls ANOTHER stitch face, hits me with it, sending me further offstage and takes the match. ****ing Peach. Then I take the set cuz Toon Link is too cool.
This was longer than I wanted to write for a character I don't main anymore...Meh, enjoy it.

 

[Thebest1pj]

tl wrecks peach on fd; jash two stocked me pretty hard. I was beating him on battlefield and had a stock lead without that much damage, but alex strife pulled the plug on the match and we didn't get to play again.

Chip usually beat me back when we used to play; i played with jerm a bunch, he won the first few friendlies, then i was winning most of the rest after that.

I dunno. It's definitely in tl's favor imo, but probably just 55-45 as long as fd isn't in play. Peach should ban fd...counterpick to high ceilings?


also, chip is the best tl

puerto ricooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[Praxis]

Bair stops a lot of her aerial approaches

and his bair beats like eveything they even beat the turnips, and peach gets juggled by toonlinks projectiles a lot.

And if she recovers to the ledge you can zair edge hog her recovery if you time it right.

I think the matchup is easily 60-40 maybe more in tls favor.

Bair's overrated in this MU, Peach's bair outspaces it very easily- it moves her hitbox quite a bit. Same way we space Marth's fair- with our back to him. Still a good move though.

Bairing the turnips usually gives us free hits on you. That's what I use turnips for, actually- to make you do something when you're in the air.

 

[Praxis]

Sigh. I really don't know how much I can trust any of my experiences from Apex LOL. I literally went two days without sleep, and Jerm was sick. xD And I've already had people get mad at me for confusing statements people told me.

So, I'd better start posting this disclaimer before I post things just in case I get something wrong. V_V

 

[z00ted]

Jerm and I play this matchup sooo much.
We both agree its 60:40 in Toon Links favor.

If Toon Link knows how to camp and zair correctly the matchup is ********.

Zair can knock us out of our float and his nair destroys us, not to mention all of his projectiles and that great almost guaranteed bair to uair which can kill us at ridiculously low percentages. Up smash is another problem fresh it can kill us at like 100% fresh?

 

[demonictoonlink]

Bair to Uair...is nowhere near guaranteed.

 

[MJG]

Yea DTL is right. It is based off of our opponent's DI.

Learn2DIproperlySir

 

[KT Kasrani]

TL wins the MU. u dont have to appraoch peach jus stay away and u pretty much won the match

 

[demonictoonlink]

Even without DI Peach can just airdodge it. We all know Peach has an awful airdodge, but it still functions.

Meno never uses it...but he should.

 

[~TLK~]

yeah this is either 55-45 or 60-40 in toon`s favor because we can easily outcamp her. we also destroy floating with things like zair. what she does have is some very quick moves and such that allows her to have advantage up close. One thing that you have to remember is that if u have a peach that loves turnips and its a camp-fest, those specialty items will come out most likely. watch out for them.

 

[demonictoonlink]

yeah this is either 55-45 or 60-40 in toon`s favor because we can easily outcamp her. we also destroy floating with things like zair. what she does have is some very quick moves and such that allows her to have advantage up close. One thing that you have to remember is that if u have a peach that loves turnips and its a camp-fest, those specialty items will come out most likely. watch out for them.

If Peach floats just a little bit higher than usual Zair becomes useless. It means that you have to use it high up so it does AC into anything and it's sometimes punishable on hit.

 

[~TLK~]

If Peach floats just a little bit higher than usual Zair becomes useless. It means that you have to use it high up so it does AC into anything and it's sometimes punishable on hit.

for higher floating sure it isn't going to work but i guess what i meant more so was shutting down short hopped floating. that is a good stategy for peach normally but not against Toon Link. so i mean in certain situationals its excellent is all.

 

[Azuraith]

this MU is 55-45 for TL.
Floats are basicly rendered useless by boomerangs and Zair. and even if Peach floatsslithgly above Zair, rangs range and dmg are just so devastating. 11% on rang with no decay. Fullhop Nair's are great for spacing as toonlink against peach cause it will hit basicly every time and it keeps you in the air and away from danger, since TL is imo better then peach in the air because of bombs. project spam is in TL's favor obviously and even arrows can block turnips so they suckXD.

 

[-Remix-]

I find this mu to be so annoying. I say camp camp camp.

Also, bair is really good in this mu. use it well.

I'm too lazy to actually give detail on it. but i think tl loses close-range, and DI towards peach when you zair is an awful idea >.>

Anyways, bye.

 

[Brawlin]

All right im not gonna write an entire matchup analysis but I'll talk about Toon Link's projectiles. Yeah they can be annoying for Peach but there is something else that Peach can do against them besides dodging and blocking them with turnips. Peach can Nair through his boomerangs and arrows. This could make it harder for TL to knock Peach out of a float. Thought this was worth mentioning. Peach's bair is also useful against Toon Link. It is faster than Toon Link's fair and bair. Another thing I thought that was worth mentioning.

 

[N3xU5]

i gotta say its 55-45 tl mayb 60-40 it seems we all agree lol

 

[Chuee]

^
The words of the almighty Nexus.

 

[G-Dub]

This match is pretty easy for TL imo. He outcamps her, ***** her in the air, and kills earlier. All TL has to do is **** with bombs (pretty much what is does in every MU) and gimp her floaty ***.
60-40 TL.

 

[iamjason8]

This is the most boring Tink MU I've ever played. EVER. Its not unwinnable for Peach but for me its extremely difficult and frustrating.

He's faster and has more mobility.
He's better at camping.
He's better at killing.

For me, I don't try to force the kill with Peach even though he's at high percent, I just wait for the opportunity and most often Up Smash or Up tilt.

60-40 Tink's advamtage imo.

 

[Chsal]

^Lol yea...

Not nearly as gay as our TL Snake matches though. At least the Peach ones don't time out.

Agree 60-40. If TL is feels like camping.

 

[iamjason8]

^

Hahaha, that was the worst man. Jeez I hope that never happens again. Lol.

I think the only reason Peach doesn't time out is because you don't have trouble killing me. *cough* Snake at 200. xP

 

[Azuraith]

i gotta say its 55-45 tl mayb 60-40 it seems we all agree lol

yea it seems we all agree. but are we deciding on 55-45 or 60-40 ??

just based on projectiles its like 80-20 for TL
air game is like 60-40 for tl because hit air moves come out faster on average and can be used to space well.
Groud game is probably 50-50 although TL has slightly higher killing power, peach cant match that killing power with her Usmash(which is unreliable cause the sweetspot is almost directly above her like marth's) and her Fsmash is all situational , her only real killing mvoe is Fair Uair at high % and maybe Fsmash and Bair but Bair is usually decayed.
are they the same weight? if so its in TL's favor since his Usmash, Utilt and Fair can easily kill at that weight.

so 55-45 or 60-40XD?

 

[MJG]

yea it seems we all agree. but are we deciding on 55-45 or 60-40 ??

just based on projectiles its like 80-20 for TL
air game is like 60-40 for tl because hit air moves come out faster on average and can be used to space well.
Groud game is probably 50-50 although TL has slightly higher killing power, peach cant match that killing power with her Usmash(which is unreliable cause the sweetspot is almost directly above her like marth's) and her Fsmash is all situational , her only real killing mvoe is Fair Uair at high % and maybe Fsmash and Bair but Bair is usually decayed.
are they the same weight? if so its in TL's favor since his Usmash, Utilt and Fair can easily kill at that weight.

so 55-45 or 60-40XD?

*Facepalm.

 

[MJG]

Peach 55:45: Not a bad MU. Don’t let the hand come down on you (AKA, run).

Things to keep in mind:
-Try to keep peach away from you as much as possible. She beats us up close.
-Instant throw the turnips back if you are not too close to peach. Even if you mess up the timing, zair will come out and it will cancel the turnip and you have a chance of hitting peach as well.
-Be careful about using aerials in this MU (Except up air). Peach’s fair comes out faster than our fair and if peach spaces her fair well, she will hit us before we can land nair or we will trade hits. Bair helps protect toonlink from peach’s aerials (as long as you are retreating with it).
-Zair: Zair is pretty underrated in this MU. It grounds peach immediately.

Kill Moves:
-Uair: Peach’s air dodge is terrible. Abuse it.
-Fair
-Up Smash
-Up Tilt

Stages:
Any stage that gives you enough room to get away from peach:
FD, SV, PS1, Halberd.

Ban: Yoshi’s Island or Brinstar.

 

[Thebest1pj]

Peach 55:45: Not a bad MU. Don’t let the hand come down on you (AKA, run).

Things to keep in mind:
-Try to keep peach away from you as much as possible. She beats us up close.
-Instant throw the turnips back if you are not too close to peach. Even if you mess up the timing, zair will come out and it will cancel the turnip and you have a chance of hitting peach as well.
-Be careful about using aerials in this MU (Except up air). Peach’s fair comes out faster than our fair and if peach spaces her fair well, she will hit us before we can land nair or we will trade hits. Bair helps protect toonlink from peach’s aerials (as long as you are retreating with it).
-Zair: Zair is pretty underrated in this MU. It grounds peach immediately.

Kill Moves:
-Uair: Peach’s air dodge is terrible. Abuse it.
-Fair
-Up Smash
-Up Tilt

Stages:
Any stage that gives you enough room to get away from peach:
FD, SV, PS1, Halberd.

Ban: Yoshi’s Island or Brinstar.

Also bair ***** peach hard you can wrack up quiet a bit of damage in a bair string. angled boomerang up will knock peach out of the air as will full hop arrow. watch yourself getting back onstage dont get sniped by peaches turnips off stage and watch her belated aerials. also if there floating like mad close to the ground then unfloating then floating again really fast turn towards the peach main and aks wtf there doing and dont move your char.

 

[MJG]

Peach can DI out of it and nair before you can string enough bairs together.

Other than that, it is a useful aerial

 

[Azuraith]

*Facepalm.

Why facepalm??XD

 

[TheJerm]

Actually shadow is right. Bair strings **** peach, and outspaces peach's nair so even if she DI's, it shouldnt hit you.. Besides, most people try to DI out of bair strings.

 

[MJG]

Actually shadow is right. Bair strings **** peach, and outspaces peach's nair so even if she DI's, it shouldnt hit you.. Besides, most people try to DI out of bair strings.

You say this as if you are surprised

Shadow was the one that told me that BAIR IS THE KEY.

 

[TheJerm]

Well I invented bair.. so

Im da bess