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Toon Link Match-up Video and Critique Thread

Remzi

Remzi

formerly VaBengal
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Fairfax, VA
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As awesome as camping with TL is, you guys are kind of making it seem like camping is synonymous with safe play. There is a point where you have to approach (other person has a stock lead, or large percentage lead and time is not on your side). Sure, there are people that you can camp the hell out of even when you are losing, but there are a good amount of patient players out there.

I can guarantee you if I have more than a 30% lead on you, I will happily stand in place and PS + run away from your projectiles for however long it takes. I actually find it fun and I'm pretty **** good at it. If you try to wall me with aerials, I'll punish your cool down. I used to just attack outside my opponent's range with Marth's pokes/walls and wait for them to run into it, but patient players see through that and **** you in between attacks.

There comes a point where you have to actually attack your opponent, and as much as that may suck with TL, you don't really have a choice. You do have zair which is great for baiting+poking, both valuable tools in aggression. Nair is good for weaving and you actually have a pretty decent mixup game at point blank. I don't know too much about TL, so maybe I'm just missing something, or maybe Hyro was joking, but you really have to approach at times... and it isn't THAT bad.
 
Remzi

Remzi

formerly VaBengal
Joined
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Messages
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Fairfax, VA
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:laugh:

Jerm I swear if you come to MD/VA I'm gonna make it my mission to time you out
 
demonictoonlink

demonictoonlink

Smash Master
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Messages
3,113
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Colorado
Coming from someone who gets Wario'd out, yeah, you have to approach.

Although Wario's a funny one...Even when you're at the around the same percent or winning, projectile spamming isn't the best idea...

*camps for a minute dealing 5%*
*gets superfarted on*
*goes MK*

edit: Flea/Wii/We the best
 
Thebest1pj

Thebest1pj

Pinnacle of Projectile Placement.
Joined
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Messages
3,326
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Intergalactic camping with mjg.
demonictoonlink said:
Coming from someone who gets Wario'd out, yeah, you have to approach.

Although Wario's a funny one...Even when you're at the around the same percent or winning, projectile spamming isn't the best idea...

*camps for a minute dealing 5%*
*gets superfarted on*
*goes MK*

edit: Flea/Wii/We the best
Click to expand...
silly dylan you must not have read chapter 6 jerm the wario slayer its on page 666
 
WindMajor

WindMajor

.
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
10,050
BengalsRZ said:
As awesome as camping with TL is, you guys are kind of making it seem like camping is synonymous with safe play. There is a point where you have to approach (other person has a stock lead, or large percentage lead and time is not on your side). Sure, there are people that you can camp the hell out of even when you are losing, but there are a good amount of patient players out there.

I can guarantee you if I have more than a 30% lead on you, I will happily stand in place and PS + run away from your projectiles for however long it takes. I actually find it fun and I'm pretty **** good at it. If you try to wall me with aerials, I'll punish your cool down. I used to just attack outside my opponent's range with Marth's pokes/walls and wait for them to run into it, but patient players see through that and **** you in between attacks.

There comes a point where you have to actually attack your opponent, and as much as that may suck with TL, you don't really have a choice. You do have zair which is great for baiting+poking, both valuable tools in aggression. Nair is good for weaving and you actually have a pretty decent mixup game at point blank. I don't know too much about TL, so maybe I'm just missing something, or maybe Hyro was joking, but you really have to approach at times... and it isn't THAT bad.
Click to expand...
I don't understand your argument.

You open up by saying that camping isn't synonymous with safe play, but your argument is completely irrelevant, saying that Toon Link has to approach at times because there are points where you have to actually attack your opponent, which in terms is a contradiction to your opening statement. Then you jump back on topic and say that even though there are some people that can be camped hard, there are patient players, like yourself, that can powershield/block/dodge/punish everything that Toon Link has and can remain completely safe for X amount of time.

You and I both know that you cannot do that.

Then you go back to your "Toon Link has to approach" argument, which by the way has nothing to do with camping isn't synonymous, but you do so anyways. Then it ends.

Your arguments are all over the place.
 
Lobos

Lobos

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lol you do need to learn how to approach tho, camping can only get you so far :p

also I am still the highest placing TL in md/va........I would like to see kingtoon or jash(again) try to come here and place top 3
 
TheJerm

TheJerm

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I wont need to time him out. I'll beat him on easy mode with approaching ;]

Yes, im that cocky lol
 
KT Kasrani

KT Kasrani

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Messages
2,177
Location
Philadelphia, Pa
Lobos said:
lol you do need to learn how to approach tho, camping can only get you so far :p

also I am still the highest placing TL in md/va........I would like to see kingtoon or jash(again) try to come here and place top 3
Click to expand...
lol ur the only TL in MD/VA jus lik im the only 1 in PA. ill come down and give it a try sooner or later. i wanna see u come up 2 super dso 2 and place top 20 lol
 
Lobos

Lobos

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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kingtoon said:
lol ur the only TL in MD/VA jus lik im the only 1 in PA. ill come down and give it a try sooner or later. i wanna see u come up 2 super dso 2 and place top 20 lol
Click to expand...
only remaining toonlink.....well not anymore :p

sheikant - atleast he made it to pound 4 :p funny guy too

I hope you guys learned from my video tho.......dont aggro too much lolololol
 
Kaffei

Kaffei

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
7,048
shadow1pj said:
i wouldnt take anything from this these matches were done several months ago hes just now uploading them


i literally forgot i posted before this (facepalm)
Click to expand...
ya but I always like watching NL's TL for some reason.
 
Remzi

Remzi

formerly VaBengal
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Remziz4
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Twinkie said:
I don't understand your argument.

You open up by saying that camping isn't synonymous with safe play, but your argument is completely irrelevant, saying that Toon Link has to approach at times because there are points where you have to actually attack your opponent, which in terms is a contradiction to your opening statement. Then you jump back on topic and say that even though there are some people that can be camped hard, there are patient players, like yourself, that can powershield/block/dodge/punish everything that Toon Link has and can remain completely safe for X amount of time.

You and I both know that you cannot do that.

Then you go back to your "Toon Link has to approach" argument, which by the way has nothing to do with camping isn't synonymous, but you do so anyways. Then it ends.

Your arguments are all over the place.
Click to expand...
You're right, that was very unclear haha. I kind of abandoned my original point (or forgot about it acutally) regarding safe play and camping.

What I was trying to say was that camping is a subset of safe play, but safe play doesn't necessarily have to be camping. And when you are losing and are playing against someone who is good at avoiding projectiles, camping isn't going to get you very far. Same goes for trying to wall your opponent with aerials, because that is just a form of baiting, which only works if the other person falls for it. So at that point, a safe aggression is your best bet. Obviously, it isn't going to be AS safe as projectile camping, but TL has the tools to go aggro and at that point you don't really have another choice.

I can further clarify if you'd like.

Jerm: Well if you approach me I won't need to time you out, it'll only take me 3 minutes ;)

nah I'm JK, jerm's tl is very legit
 
WindMajor

WindMajor

.
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
10,050
BengalsRZ said:
You're right, that was very unclear haha. I kind of abandoned my original point (or forgot about it acutally) regarding safe play and camping.

What I was trying to say was that camping is a subset of safe play, but safe play doesn't necessarily have to be camping. And when you are losing and are playing against someone who is good at avoiding projectiles, camping isn't going to get you very far. Same goes for trying to wall your opponent with aerials, because that is just a form of baiting, which only works if the other person falls for it.

I can further clarify if you'd like.

Jerm: Well if you approach me I won't need to time you out, it'll only take me 3 minutes ;)

nah I'm JK, jerm's tl is very legit
Click to expand...
This is what I was looking for. :)
 
Hyro

Hyro

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
1,386
BengalsRZ said:
As awesome as camping with TL is, you guys are kind of making it seem like camping is synonymous with safe play. There is a point where you have to approach (other person has a stock lead, or large percentage lead and time is not on your side). Sure, there are people that you can camp the hell out of even when you are losing, but there are a good amount of patient players out there.

I can guarantee you if I have more than a 30% lead on you, I will happily stand in place and PS + run away from your projectiles for however long it takes. I actually find it fun and I'm pretty **** good at it. If you try to wall me with aerials, I'll punish your cool down. I used to just attack outside my opponent's range with Marth's pokes/walls and wait for them to run into it, but patient players see through that and **** you in between attacks.

There comes a point where you have to actually attack your opponent, and as much as that may suck with TL, you don't really have a choice. You do have zair which is great for baiting+poking, both valuable tools in aggression. Nair is good for weaving and you actually have a pretty decent mixup game at point blank. I don't know too much about TL, so maybe I'm just missing something, or maybe Hyro was joking, but you really have to approach at times... and it isn't THAT bad.
Click to expand...
No i wasn't joking and i don't agree with you. i think it's a mindset thing. you say you have to approach eventually. i disagree. now when we play, and I have the lead....YOUR going to approach me.

already i win (as long as i know how to play the game, and punish your approaches like i should)

now, when YOU get the lead, your gonna be like, haha now YOU have to approach and I get to punish YOUR cooldown

no sir

because there isn't ever going to be an approach. because im toon link and i don't have to approach. when you have your 30 percent lead, i will never give you a chance to increase that lead by getting near you. i won't even worry about it. feel free to run away, camp, and try to avoid my projectiles. the difference is, i have 0 pressure on me because i will not be worried about your lead. you will have pressure on you to keep that lead by not getting hit by projectiles

first off, thats already going to be really hard. as dtl said, i doubt anyone could avoid everything. little by little, youd lose the lead. second, i WANT you too avoid my projectiles. thats when i get my attacks in. when your trying to shield the second shda arrow, ima grab you. when you try to jump over my returning boomerang, ima bair you. when i throw a bomb at your shield and it bounces off, im gonna run past you and read the roll

but im not gonna put myself at risk while doing it. TL is the one with the projectiles

which is why we all probably hate falco. i hate to say it, but eventually i think even ID approach falco. it's hard to stop his camping.

i think dehf might've said before that theoretically he shouldnt ever have to approach.

anyways...i love fighting campers. i rarely lose to them. no pressure on me so i just sit back and throw ****. its the aggro ones i lose to. but they become easier as you get better at the game.
 
Thebest1pj

Thebest1pj

Pinnacle of Projectile Placement.
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Intergalactic camping with mjg.
BengalsRZ said:
You're right, that was very unclear haha. I kind of abandoned my original point (or forgot about it acutally) regarding safe play and camping.

What I was trying to say was that camping is a subset of safe play, but safe play doesn't necessarily have to be camping. And when you are losing and are playing against someone who is good at avoiding projectiles, camping isn't going to get you very far. Same goes for trying to wall your opponent with aerials, because that is just a form of baiting, which only works if the other person falls for it. So at that point, a safe aggression is your best bet. Obviously, it isn't going to be AS safe as projectile camping, but TL has the tools to go aggro and at that point you don't really have another choice.

I can further clarify if you'd like.

Jerm: Well if you approach me I won't need to time you out, it'll only take me 3 minutes ;)

nah I'm JK, jerm's tl is very legit
Click to expand...


Take a look at yourself, then look at HyRo, now back to yourself, now back to HyRo. Sadly, you're not HyRo, but if you stop trying to approach and start being campy, you could pretend like you're HyRo.

Look down, back up, where are you? You're sitting a chair in tourney pretending to be the man you could be as campy as. What's in your hand? Now back at HyRo. He has it. It's an oyster with those 2 Arrows that you've wanted to powershield. Now look again, THE ARROWS ARE NOW YOU GETTING UP SMASHED AT 200 PERCENT LAST STOCK. Anything is possible when you're as campy as HyRo and not approaching. You just got timed out.
 
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