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Too many Mario Reps?

VKatana

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I certainly don't want to spark an argument over this, but... Super Metroid being the finest side scroller is a bit of a stretch. Best game of the last century, it's DEFINITELY not. It is fantastic and an epitome of incredible game design, but it's not the best game of the past century I'd say. That said, I'm no expert on game design, and if you are then I applaud you and accept your opinion is more valid than mine. However, I've played that game through 3 times. I've also played Half-Life 2, FF7, Super Mario Galaxy, so.... I wouldn't call Super Metroid best in the century. Objectively speaking, if you think it is then I'm in no position to tell you you're wrong. To each his own.
 

SmashBro99

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Mario is huge, the others for the most part are not.

Pretty simple.
 

RPGatWill

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Now, I'm going to have a slightly biased opinion, but I will try to explain myself in full. First, let's break down the full roster. I will also add in a small addendum into whether or not the franchise NEEDS any extra support or not (I'll explain that later as well).

Mario Franchise (Yoshi and Wario are included for not being quite free of the Mario brand unlike the DK games. Though I'd love from them to return to the banner and titles like Mario Kart and Mario Party)

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Rosalina & Luma, Bowser Jr., Wario, Dr. Mario
Total count - 9
Does Mario need the support? No.

Donkey Kong Franchise

Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong
Total Count - 2
Needs support? Yes and No

Zelda Franchise

Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Toon Link
Total Count - 5
Needs support? With HW No

Metroid Franchise
Samus, Zero Suit Samus
Needs support? Yes.

Kid Icarus Franchise
Pit, Palutena, Dark Pit
Needs Support? Maybe

Fire Emblem Franchise
Marth, Ike, Robin, Lucina
Needs Support? With Robin and Lucina in No

Kirby Franchise
Kirby, King Dedede, Meta Knight
Needs Support? Maybe/Not Really

Star Fox Franchise
Fox, Falco
Needs Support? Yes

Pokemon Franchise
Pikachu, Charizard, Lucario, Jigglypuff, Greninja
Needs Support? No.

Others
Little Mac - Fine
Duck Hunt Dog - Retro
R.O.B. - Retro
Ness - Popular franchise that has ended
Captain Falcon - Popular character from now dead franchise
Villager - Popular franchise
Olimar - Popular franchise
Wii Fit Trainer - Popular game, odd character
Mr. Game & Watch - Retro to the extreme
Shulk - Xenoblade promotion
Pac-Man - Retro
Mega Man - Retro
Sonic - Retro
Mii Fighter - You know, for kids!

As you notice I stick to the main franchises. Of the franchises not represented I feel only Isaac from Golden Sun really should have been promoted as a newcomer so Golden Sun doesn't die off (It's a good game series and the ending to Dark Dawn left me wanting). But that's a personal opinion.

Now onto the explanation. Did Mario need the extra reps? no it didn't. Do I hate the new reps? no I do not. They are unique with interesting and different play styles, so I cannot honestly say I do not want them. The only one I don't need is Doctor Mario. He should have been an alt in my opinion.

However, Smash Brothers is always a great chance to PROMOTE franchises that don't get much sales normally. Including Shulk is one of the smarter things we've seen. However, the newcomers choices should have been Ridley or Dark Samus from Metroid to prevent sales from future metroid games from dying off. Other M is hated almost universally outside of Japan, and Samus may be in danger of becoming a defunct franchise like Captain Falcon's F-Zero. Same for Star Fox. They lost a rep this time around when really they should have either kept Wolf or replaced him with Krystal to promote Star Fox U which will hopefully be a good game.

Why Mario and not Zelda? Well Zelda does now have Hyrule Warriors, which is an extremely fun game. However, in my personal opinion if Mario has 9, Zelda should at least have 6. Now in Kid Icarus you might be surprised to hear me say I'm NOT upset about the 3 characters. Kid Icarus just had a very good entry into it's relaunch but there is currently no one taking up a new Kid Icarus game. Unless we see a new producer pick it up, Kid Icarus will once again fall by the wayside so pushing three characters would make sense. It's just a shame KI was prioritized over all the other franchises.

Fire Emblem is in good stead. It would have been even with 3 reps, but I'm feeling even better about it with 4. Seriously if you haven't played any fire emblem game you're missing out. Kirby I think deserves a four rep to round it out at some point. it didn't happen this time, but maybe that's because there hasn't been a stable Kirby fourth as of yet. I suppose Bandanna Dee might pull it off if he sticks around. Finally Pokemon. Pokemon needs no help at all. Pokemon will sell no matter what. BUT I say once again, if Mario has 9, Pokemon deserves at least 6.

Edit: I completely forgot about Donkey Kong. The newest iterations seem very popular, so DK may not NEED the representation, but it would be nice to give them a third as a sign of good faith in the new developers.

So in conclusion while I don't hate and in fact am rather impressed with the Mario newcomers, I'm a little afraid of the imbalance between mario and the other just as important franchises. For Smash 5 if and when it is made, we do NOT need any more Mario characters until other series get more representation.

(I'm of the opinion that smash 5 or 6 should be called Smash 64 ironically and have a final roster of 64 characters.)
 
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Naoshi

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I feel Mario has a nice amount of reps. 7 (Not counting Yoshi and the likes) is a good number, especially for this size of the roster. Mario is the biggest Nintendo franchise! . My main issue is that some franchises are downgraded in reps. Pokemon went from 2 -> 4 -> 6 -> and now 5. Mother went from 1 -> 1 -> finally 2-> now back to 1. Star Fox went from 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> now back to 2. It feels kind of jarring to say the least.

I get that the Mother franchise is basically done, but it finally got more exposure on the VC rerelease, even got its first ever EU release too. So IDK... it feels wrong it's back to just one, but I guess I can sort of see why. Star Fox has went downhill in sales, for sure, so I guess I could see why it's back to 2, but still sucks to see cuts. As for Pokemon... it's the 2nd biggest franchise for Nintendo and it just boggles my mind that it went back to 5 from a 6 in Brawl. Just so weird.

And Smash Bros is about Nintendo, not Sakurai's ego. It's pretty obvious that Kirby and KI have so much exposure due to Sakurai's bias, but that doesn't make it at all right.

Keep in mind, neither franchise has ever been known to be particularly groundbreaking on a critical or commercial level. At least compared to other major Nintendo properties.
W-what? How is 3 Kirby reps too much?? Kirby is somewhat a big series for Nintendo. They constantly sell a million or so per game. Did you not see how Star Fox has 3 reps despite their latest games selling worse and worse each entry? Metaknight and Dedede's inclusions are justified and long overdue. That is a ridiculous thing to say.

Not to mention Kid Icarus Uprising has 3 reps, one of which is a clone. Palutena's spot is justified as she is a well known character among the fans. While I don't agree with Dark Pit's inclusion, I think it's silly to think this is out of bias. We always get clones from random franchises each Smash Bros game, Kid Icarus is no different here. KI:U has sold a million world wide, same to now FE, which has 4 FE reps.

3 out of 49 characters is not a huge deal and no way does it scream "bias". This is ridiculous.
 
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Narth

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Not really. 20% of Melees roster was Mario characters (Mario, Dr Mario, Luigi, Bowser and Peach)

Brawl was just over 10% (Mario, Luigi, Bowser and Peach)

Smash 4 has just under 14% (Mario, Dr Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach, Rosalina and Bowser Jr.)

So less rep than Melee. I don't hear much about Melee having too many Mario characters.
 

Morbi

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To be fair, Dr. Mario represents his own spin-off series, Dr. Mario. I do not care if he does not have a different icon, if that is the case, he is the same character and therefore he represents the same character (Mario) anyways... so technically there are only six representatives. :awesome:

But in all seriousness, there were five Mario characters in Melee, a decade ago. Now there are seven characters in Smash 4, a decade later. I do not believe that that is "over-representation."
 

WaveDashCash

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I tend to write Yoshi off as a Yoshi's Island Rep and Wario off as a Warioware Rep. The Mario franchise has spun off into so many different franchises that there aren't that many to me. I think they'd be scraping the bottom of the barrel if they kept adding more in future titles though.

Imagine the Headlines:
PETEY PIRANHA RIDES AGAIN????
 

FangedSniper

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Now, I'm going to have a slightly biased opinion, but I will try to explain myself in full. First, let's break down the full roster. I will also add in a small addendum into whether or not the franchise NEEDS any extra support or not (I'll explain that later as well).

Mario Franchise (Yoshi and Wario are included for not being quite free of the Mario brand unlike the DK games. Though I'd love from them to return to the banner and titles like Mario Kart and Mario Party)

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Rosalina & Luma, Bowser Jr., Wario, Dr. Mario
Total count - 9
Does Mario need the support? No.

Donkey Kong Franchise

Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong
Total Count - 2
Needs support? Yes and No

Zelda Franchise

Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Toon Link
Total Count - 5
Needs support? With HW No

Metroid Franchise
Samus, Zero Suit Samus
Needs support? Yes.

Kid Icarus Franchise
Pit, Palutena, Dark Pit
Needs Support? Maybe

Fire Emblem Franchise
Marth, Ike, Robin, Lucina
Needs Support? With Robin and Lucina in No

Kirby Franchise
Kirby, King Dedede, Meta Knight
Needs Support? Maybe/Not Really

Star Fox Franchise
Fox, Falco
Needs Support? Yes

Pokemon Franchise
Pikachu, Charizard, Lucario, Jigglypuff, Greninja
Needs Support? No.

Others
Little Mac - Fine
Duck Hunt Dog - Retro
R.O.B. - Retro
Ness - Popular franchise that has ended
Captain Falcon - Popular character from now dead franchise
Villager - Popular franchise
Olimar - Popular franchise
Wii Fit Trainer - Popular game, odd character
Mr. Game & Watch - Retro to the extreme
Shulk - Xenoblade promotion
Pac-Man - Retro
Mega Man - Retro
Sonic - Retro
Mii Fighter - You know, for kids!

As you notice I stick to the main franchises. Of the franchises not represented I feel only Isaac from Golden Sun really should have been promoted as a newcomer so Golden Sun doesn't die off (It's a good game series and the ending to Dark Dawn left me wanting). But that's a personal opinion.

Now onto the explanation. Did Mario need the extra reps? no it didn't. Do I hate the new reps? no I do not. They are unique with interesting and different play styles, so I cannot honestly say I do not want them. The only one I don't need is Doctor Mario. He should have been an alt in my opinion.

However, Smash Brothers is always a great chance to PROMOTE franchises that don't get much sales normally. Including Shulk is one of the smarter things we've seen. However, the newcomers choices should have been Ridley or Dark Samus from Metroid to prevent sales from future metroid games from dying off. Other M is hated almost universally outside of Japan, and Samus may be in danger of becoming a defunct franchise like Captain Falcon's F-Zero. Same for Star Fox. They lost a rep this time around when really they should have either kept Wolf or replaced him with Krystal to promote Star Fox U which will hopefully be a good game.

Why Mario and not Zelda? Well Zelda does now have Hyrule Warriors, which is an extremely fun game. However, in my personal opinion if Mario has 9, Zelda should at least have 6. Now in Kid Icarus you might be surprised to hear me say I'm NOT upset about the 3 characters. Kid Icarus just had a very good entry into it's relaunch but there is currently no one taking up a new Kid Icarus game. Unless we see a new producer pick it up, Kid Icarus will once again fall by the wayside so pushing three characters would make sense. It's just a shame KI was prioritized over all the other franchises.

Fire Emblem is in good stead. It would have been even with 3 reps, but I'm feeling even better about it with 4. Seriously if you haven't played any fire emblem game you're missing out. Kirby I think deserves a four rep to round it out at some point. it didn't happen this time, but maybe that's because there hasn't been a stable Kirby fourth as of yet. I suppose Bandanna Dee might pull it off if he sticks around. Finally Pokemon. Pokemon needs no help at all. Pokemon will sell no matter what. BUT I say once again, if Mario has 9, Pokemon deserves at least 6.

Edit: I completely forgot about Donkey Kong. The newest iterations seem very popular, so DK may not NEED the representation, but it would be nice to give them a third as a sign of good faith in the new developers.

So in conclusion while I don't hate and in fact am rather impressed with the Mario newcomers, I'm a little afraid of the imbalance between mario and the other just as important franchises. For Smash 5 if and when it is made, we do NOT need any more Mario characters until other series get more representation.

(I'm of the opinion that smash 5 or 6 should be called Smash 64 ironically and have a final roster of 64 characters.)
Kid Icarus gets a maybe for new characters and Kirby gets a "not really"? What gives?
 

MagnesD3

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To be fair, Dr. Mario represents his own spin-off series, Dr. Mario. I do not care if he does not have a different icon, if that is the case, he is the same character and therefore he represents the same character (Mario) anyways... so technically there are only six representatives. :awesome:

But in all seriousness, there were five Mario characters in Melee, a decade ago. Now there are seven characters in Smash 4, a decade later. I do not believe that that is "over-representation."
To be fair he is Mario in a doctor uniform.
 

Chocolatnave

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Dr. Mario could've been a skin, no one likes koopa kid, scrap him as well. Metroid could've gotten another character to replace duck hunt dog, and LoZ could do with one more. More characters are better though, but they should ideally be characters from games that would benefit from having more representation.

Also, for people saying that Mario should have the most characters because it's Nintendo's best franchise; it's fine if they are represented with popular characters, but they shouldn't have as many as they do in a crossover.
 

Ben Holt

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Too many Kirby reps?! It's one of Nintendo's best known franchises, and it only has 3! Iwata wanted Dedede in SSB64 but Sakurai thought that'd be biased towards the Kirby. Kirby is a pretty big franchise, and I think 3 reps is perfect for it. No more no less. Personally, I'm not keeping any fingers crossed for Bandana Dee, although I was hoping for Isaac or Dark Samus.
I agree. But Kirby could use a fourth rep, but DK needs it more. At this point DK needs both Dixie AND K. Rool. Maybe even Cranky.
 

Ben Holt

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Dk needs 4 before Kirby, Metroid needs 3 before kirby gets 4 and Starfox definitely needs 3 before kirby gets 4.
I agree to all of these. But Kirby is a pretty big series. Bandana Dee just tops off Kirby's Big 4. But thenagain, Mario needs Toad for it's Big 4. And DK would need Dixie and Cranky. 4 is just a common number for playable characters in video games.
 

Skyline1992

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You have to understand that Mario is Nintendo's biggest and most successful franchise. Because of that, it's always going to warrant a lot of representation. That being said, I do think we should have just got :4mario: :4luigi: :4peach: :4bowser:. Don't take it the wrong way though I do like :rosalina: and Bowser Jr.
 
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RPGatWill

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Kid Icarus gets a maybe for new characters and Kirby gets a "not really"? What gives?
My rationale is aside from those main three I have not seen a Kirby character stick around for a long period of time. My understanding of Bandanna Dee is he's only a recent addition to the series, so who knows if he'll stand the test of time? Anyone remember Adeleine the Painter? She was cool but hasn't stuck around. Is anyone still asking for Magalor, or did they move onto Bandanna Dee? Prince Fluff maybe?

Most of these characters come off as one-shot characters for the franchise. Unlike Fire Emblem which is mostly one shot games, Kirby does have a reoccurring main cast. The Main cast is fully represented. Though of course it would be nice to see a fourth, Kirby just hasn't shown me a character that could take that fourth spot and proudly stand next to Dedede, Meta and Kirby.
 

Stacko

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Is it me or is there way too much Mario Representation in Smash 4? We have Mario, Peach, Bowser, Luigi, Rosalina, Bowser Jr. and Doctor Mario. Seven characters from one series, (not counting Bowser Jr.'s Koopaling alts). I personally think Sakurai was pushing it with Rosalina, (at the time made 5). Also there seems to be a significant amount of Mario Items. Blue Shell, Bullet Bill, Fire Bar, POW Block, Super Leaf and this isn't even counting the old Mario Items. (Don't get me wrong I'm ecstatic Rosalina is in, and that The Doc is back. But seven?)
Aww, it's their largest franchise! At least they picked good characters! Would you rather us have Daisy as a Peach clone? Or perhaps have Bowser Jr. be a clone of Bowser, but just be more nimble? They could have picked a lot worse, and I'm happy as long as we keep getting fun characters. Would totally kill one off for Ridley though... ;)
 

Octillus

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only thing that struck me was the amount of Mario stages - though I think if you drop mushroomy kingdom it's fair enough
 

Naoshi

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only thing that struck me was the amount of Mario stages - though I think if you drop mushroomy kingdom it's fair enough
Yeah, the 3DS version has a strange roster. I think Mario having 5 stages (including the returning one) is on par with the series (the mario stage diversity issue is another story though), but the real issue is just how so many franchises are left with only 1 returning stage each and nothing else.
 
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Souldin

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I do agree that it does feel like there is too much Mario series representation, both in terms of the amount of characters they have, the amount of items they have, and the overall amount of representation they have in contrast to many other series.

There are many Nintendo series unrepresented through playable characters, many series which only have 1 rep, or have the same character a 2nd time, just in a different form. It's not like these other series don't offer potential for unique and/or popular characters, and it's not like the Mario series needed to have as many reps as it does.

Dr. Mario was hardly needed as an inclusion, and I do not feel Rosalina & Luma have merited their inclusion as of this moment, with the only truly strong cause to get them included being her recent playable role in Super Mario 3D World. Bowser Jr always struck me as the next most deserving Mario series inclusion, but in the manner they have included him, with all of his palette swaps being the Koopa Kids, it comes across more so as playing as the Clown Copter rather than as Bowser Jr. Furthermore their particular styles of move-set, be it Rosalina's puppeteer style or Bowser Jr's vehicle style, could have been utilised by other characters from other series.

One of the arguments I hear for the Mario series having so many reps is so that it would not have less reps than Zelda or Pokémon, but there rep amount seems bizarre as well. The Zelda series only have 5 reps due to the removal of transformations and the fact that they have two versions of Link in the form of Toon Link returning. Ignoring my personal dislike against the removal of transformations, the return of Toon Link doesn't make much sense given his lack of change, his return would be more approvable if more had been done to differ his special moves (as in, giving him Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, and Spirit Tracks representing weapons). Then there is the Pokémon series, to whom I do not understand why Charizard returned. With the removal of transformations, it was an easy case for Sheik and Zero Suit Samus to return as a single rep addition to their series, but in the case of Pokémon Trainer, their shouldn't have been a choice between having just one of them. That could just be my feelings on the Pokémon Trainer's inclusion, how I feel it was merited by representing a unique aspect of the Pokémon series and how the Pokémon used by the trainer individually didn't merit inclusion due to their representing factor being just another Gen 1 rep. Neither Zelda nor Pokémon had inclusions that necessarily required above all else to have 5 reps, eliminating much of the need for Mario to have 5 or more reps (though out of the case for having 5 reps, Bowser Jr inclusion seems the more deserving).

The Mario series is the only series within SSB to have what is effectively spin-off series represented as playable characters, such as DK, Yoshi, and Wario, who all debuted from the Mario line of games (well, one could argue that they all originate from DK instead, but the point is they are connected). It is of my opinion that having further representation connected to Mario would have been best done through additional reps in the DK, Wario, and even Yoshi series. The DK series does have Dixie Kong and King K. Rool, both popular, well known, and deserving candidates for inclusion with plenty of unique potential. Ashley is a very popular character and there was quite an outcry when she was confirmed as an Assist Trophy, a playable role could have worked well for her as a Wario series rep. Perhaps Wario series representation could have even gone in the direction of Wario Land representation and included Captain Syrup. As for the Yoshi series, I've always found it somewhat too connected to the Mario series (given Mario and/or Bowser still features in the Yoshi games), but this works in it's favour here in this argument in how Kamek would have done well as both a 2nd Yoshi series rep whilst also expanding the Mario series influence without adding to the Mario series representation.

Of course, in the end it is all a matter of opinion. For myself, I am displeased the Mario series has 7 reps whilst Kirby has only 3, DK has only 2, Metroid has only 2 (whom are both the same person, just in different forms), F-Zero has only 1, Wario has only 1, and Yoshi has only 1. I'm disappointed that we have 7 Mario reps whilst the Mother series was reduced to having just 1 rep, and the Pikmin series alternative skin wasn't made into a separate character unlike the Mario series alternative skin case. I can understand why Animal Crossing and Punch-Out don't have more than 1 rep, given how they've only just gotten playable representation, but I'm still disappointed that they've only just joined at a time the Mario series has 7 reps. I'm disappointed that the Starfy series, the Golden Sun series, the Panel de Pon series, the Rhythm Heaven series, the Clu Clu Land series, the Custom Robo series, or the Advance Wars series have not even got a single playable representative at a time wherein the Mario series has 7 reps. That after all though, is just my thoughts on the matter.
 

FangedSniper

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My rationale is aside from those main three I have not seen a Kirby character stick around for a long period of time. My understanding of Bandanna Dee is he's only a recent addition to the series, so who knows if he'll stand the test of time? Anyone remember Adeleine the Painter? She was cool but hasn't stuck around. Is anyone still asking for Magalor, or did they move onto Bandanna Dee? Prince Fluff maybe?

Most of these characters come off as one-shot characters for the franchise. Unlike Fire Emblem which is mostly one shot games, Kirby does have a reoccurring main cast. The Main cast is fully represented. Though of course it would be nice to see a fourth, Kirby just hasn't shown me a character that could take that fourth spot and proudly stand next to Dedede, Meta and Kirby.
Bandana Dee's claims to fame FYI:

Introduced in Kirby Super Star's Megaton Punch

Became a concrete character and had dialogue in Kirby Super Star Ultra's revenge of the King

Was playable in Kirby's Return to Dreamland

Had a cameo in Kirby Mass Attack

Assisted the player in Triple Deluxe

And is right in the cover of the promo art for Kirby and the Rainbow Curse

Yep.
 

Duskinja

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I think the Mario series is okay as it is with its amount of representation. I don't count Wario and Yoshi as Mario representatives anymore because they stick out more than they did during Brawl. Wario only appears in Mario spinoffs and has the Warioware games. Yoshi's last main Mario series appearance was NSMBU, and he really didn't appear that often at all(the mini-yoshis don't count). Yoshi's New Island and the upcoming Yoshi's Woolly World is more or less the take off to remind people that Yoshi is becoming independent.

Okay, so with them out of the way, we still have Rosalina, Bowser Jr, and the Doc. Rosalina has been getting much recognition in recent years and is quite popular among people. I wouldn't be surprised if she got some kind of spinoff in the future(I mean Toad, is getting one for the first time in 20 years. TOAD.). Bowser Jr and the Koopalings, in my opinion, was expected at some point. They are the literal pinnacle of Bowser's army in a large number of Mario games, so it would make sense to see them here now. Dr. Mario is a clone, and I never counted clones as new characters(unless they were, idk, Falco or Lucas, who look different from say, Pit and Dark Pit). I normally have enjoyed many clone characters over original ones, however.
 

RPGatWill

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Bandana Dee's claims to fame FYI:

Introduced in Kirby Super Star's Megaton Punch

Became a concrete character and had dialogue in Kirby Super Star Ultra's revenge of the King

Was playable in Kirby's Return to Dreamland

Had a cameo in Kirby Mass Attack

Assisted the player in Triple Deluxe

And is right in the cover of the promo art for Kirby and the Rainbow Curse

Yep.
Megaton Punch is a very short and not exactly memorable appearance in my opinion. In super star he did get an upgrade into adviser but still was implied to be relatively useless, he had a cameo in mass attack (Cameos count for nothing AKA Geno). In Kirby's return to dream Land he is no longer called Bandanna Dee, so technically speaking you can't be entirely sure it's the same Bandanna wearer as before. (Semantics I'll admit, but names are important to character recognition). In Triple Deluxe he is downgraded to what Adeliene was in Kirby 64, and we all know what happened to her after that.

I'll admit his accolades are more than Adeleine who is my personal favorite, but his appearances fluctuate too much and they can't even seem to decide on his name. When he's just been dropped down to support status, I still can't say he's deserving over others. Maybe the Rainbow Curse will be what changes my mind, since he does appear in the promotional artwork for that game, but who can say?
 

the8thark

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9 if you count Yoshi/Wario

6 if you don't count doc, because he's a clone, not a unique spot planned since early in development

6 for Mario, 5 for Zelda? Fits with how well they sell.

2 For Kid Icarus, 2 for Metroid and DK? Sakurai why
You forgot 5 (I think) for Pokemon
 

the8thark

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I didn't forget, I left them out, but they still fit imo, Pokemon sells a huge amount. They had six reps in brawl, and they may yet get another rep this time around.
So your saying number of reps in SSB4 should be relative to the sales of the games they are in?
Fair enough. But stage wise then there should be almost no Pokemon stages as there's almost no sales of Pokemon games on TV Nintendo consoles. Going by that same metric.
 

Phaazoid

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So your saying number of reps in SSB4 should be relative to the sales of the games they are in?
Fair enough. But stage wise then there should be almost no Pokemon stages as there's almost no sales of Pokemon games on TV Nintendo consoles. Going by that same metric.
This is the 3ds version, handheld, where almost the entirety of Pokemon sales come from. They get two new stages on this system. Fits to me.

Of course, it isn't a perfect system, just a general metric.
 

MagnesD3

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Lets all be honest its not marios fault (even though doc shouldnt exist Paper Mario should be in his place) its the fact that the main nintendo series are all disproportionately repped that makes it seem like there are too many mario characters.
 

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The roster size has increased quite a bit since Brawl. Doing the ratio, the roster has less Mario coverage as a whole. While there may be more Mario reps, they don't take up as big a chunk of the roster as they used to.
 

Arcadenik

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Well, think of it this way... if Dr. Mario was never cut in Brawl... and Bowser Jr. was added in Brawl... and Rosalina was added in SSB4... we would still have the same amount of Mario reps...

Captain Toad for Smash 5!
 

TTTTTsd

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Also I don't really consider Dr. Mario too much of a push. He's Nintendo's Tetris and, while not necessary at all(I say this as someone who is going to play him), there's no real harm in him being here either. The true injustice is his lack of a unique victory theme.
 

Ravestickman

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9 if you count Yoshi/Wario

6 if you don't count doc, because he's a clone, not a unique spot planned since early in development

6 for Mario, 5 for Zelda? Fits with how well they sell.

2 For Kid Icarus, 2 for Metroid and DK? Sakurai why
There's 3 for KI but yea, metroid and DK need at least 1 new rep each. :ohwell:
 

Ravestickman

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Clones don't count, they weren't given though early in development, they were shoehorned in later.
Meh, I still count them because they ARE a slot on the roster. They ARE a thing, but if we're going off of new/basic characters, yea, Metroid ((Someone that isn't samus preferably)) and DK are the two that need it most. Maybe Yoshi as well if someone could find a great character from his games.
 
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