Too many Mario Reps?

[AidanTheGreat]

The only problem with Metroid is that Samus and Ridley are basically the only main characters. The Hunters appeared in only one game, Dark Samus appeared in a trilogy, Anthony and Adam appeared in one game, Kraid is waaaaaay too large, etc. Dark Samus was my last remanning hope for a Metroid rep, but no ****ing Assist Trophy like a bunch of the other highly requested characters.

If dark samus was in it, we would have a lot of dark characters, but I still think dark samus would fit. Ridley would fit too. due to personal ideals, I would want dark samus to be selectable from samus's slot. Like alph. At least you realize there are not very man metroid reps.

 

[Vaidya]

If dark samus was in it, we would have a lot of dark characters, but I still think dark samus would fit. Ridley would fit too. due to personal ideals, I would want dark samus to be selectable from samus's slot. Like alph. At least you realize there are not very man metroid reps.

There's only one dark character in the game so far. Dark Samus uses phazon and would be very different Samus. She doesn't deserve to be a skin.

 

[Fafnir]

In the case of Dark Samus, she'd end up playing wildly different from Samus. And let's not forget that the Prime trilogy is bound to go down as one of the finest series in videogame history. In that sense, there's a lot of significance there. Especially in relation to some other over represented series (it's almost criminal that both Kid Icarus and Kirby each have more representation than Metroid).

Between Dark Samus and Ridley, that's a very healthy 4 representatives for Metroid (honestly not a fan of ZSS, but a rep is still a rep). While Metroid has always been built around a strong atmosphere of isolation and solitude, they still have enough things to bring to the table in a game like Smash.

 

[AidanTheGreat]

In the case of Dark Samus, she'd end up playing wildly different from Samus. And let's not forget that the Prime trilogy is bound to go down as one of the finest series in videogame history. In that sense, there's a lot of significance there. Especially in relation to some other over represented series (it's almost criminal that both Kid Icarus and Kirby each have more representation than Metroid).

Between Dark Samus and Ridley, that's a very healthy 4 representatives for Metroid (honestly not a fan of ZSS, but a rep is still a rep). While Metroid has always been built around a strong atmosphere of isolation and solitude, they still have enough things to bring to the table in a game like Smash.

Kirby and Kid Icarus have more representatives since they are both Sakurai's games and he's the creator of smash bros. But yeah, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Dark Samus and Ridley are the only four I can see.

 

[Fafnir]

And Smash Bros is about Nintendo, not Sakurai's ego. It's pretty obvious that Kirby and KI have so much exposure due to Sakurai's bias, but that doesn't make it at all right.

Keep in mind, neither franchise has ever been known to be particularly groundbreaking on a critical or commercial level. At least compared to other major Nintendo properties.

 

[MagnesD3]

I honestly always expected Dark Samus to be the 4th and final rep for Metroid after Ridley but we havent even got ridley yet...

 

[AidanTheGreat]

And Smash Bros is about Nintendo, not Sakurai's ego. It's pretty obvious that Kirby and KI have so much exposure due to Sakurai's bias, but that doesn't make it at all right.

Yeah. This pretty much. I'm not sure if smash bros was made by Miyamoto that he would add more characters from his games (his games already kinda have the most representatives all together) But I have noticed smash bros 4 panders more towards Sakurai's games.

 

[Fafnir]

I like to look at Sakurai a bit like a Japanese John Romero. There comes a point where getting so wrapped up with stroking one's ego can become a really bad thing.

 

[yahooda]

Kirby and Kid Icarus have more representatives since they are both Sakurai's games and he's the creator of smash bros. But yeah, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Dark Samus and Ridley are the only four I can see.

But don't you remember Anthony?

Spoiler

 

[AidanTheGreat]

I honestly always expected Dark Samus to be the 4th and final rep for Metroid after Ridley but we havent even got ridley yet...

But don't you remember Anthony?

Spoiler

Anthony? Ive seem to forgotten. I don't remember.

 

[25%Cotton]

If dark samus was in it, we would have a lot of dark characters, but I still think dark samus would fit. Ridley would fit too. due to personal ideals, I would want dark samus to be selectable from samus's slot. Like alph. At least you realize there are not very man metroid reps.

i feel like dark samus could have been in, but i think differently about it (also, did you know there is a dark samus coloring option for samus? it's not a model change but it's not like their models are far apart and it would be awkward for that model and the assist trophy to share the same shape...

but anyway, i think that dark samus's moves would be very different. even people who have never played metroid prime 2 and 3 can see just by looking at her assist trophy. she's got a lot of weird phazon-y tendril things, area-affect rather than focused attacks, and in the games, phazon has a bit of brainwashy powers, too.

tbh, her fighting style is much farther from samus than dark pit's is from pit (dark pit and pit fight basically no different), but dark pit seems to be a bit of a fan favorite (at least the smash4 online scene seems to say so)

 

[AidanTheGreat]

i feel like dark samus could have been in, but i think differently about it (also, did you know there is a dark samus coloring option for samus? it's not a model change but it's not like their models are far apart and it would be awkward for that model and the assist trophy to share the same shape...

but anyway, i think that dark samus's moves would be very different. even people who have never played metroid prime 2 and 3 can see just by looking at her assist trophy. she's got a lot of weird phazon-y tendril things, area-affect rather than focused attacks, and in the games, phazon has a bit of brainwashy powers, too.

tbh, her fighting style is much farther from samus than dark pit's is from pit (dark pit and pit fight basically no different), but dark pit seems to be a bit of a fan favorite (at least the smash4 online scene seems to say so)

I hear Dark pit is just Brawl Pit, therefore he should be on the same spot in my opinion. I guess since you guys have explained how Dark Samus is very different, Dark Samus would get it's own spot.

 

[Fafnir]

As far as appearance goes for Dark Samus, while her MP3 look is certainly closer to Samus, her MP2 look is all kinds of sinister and organic looking, and very divergent from Samus.

I hear Dark pit is just Brawl Pit, therefore he should be on the same spot in my opinion. I guess since you guys have explained how Dark Samus is very different, Dark Samus would get it's own spot.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but he's not like Brawl Pit. He's like Smash 4 Vanilla Pit. But... well, not different at all, really.

 

[AidanTheGreat]

As far as appearance goes for Dark Samus, while her MP3 look is certainly closer to Samus, her MP2 look is all kinds of sinister and organic looking, and very divergent from Samus.



Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but he's not like Brawl Pit. He's like Smash 4 Vanilla Pit. But... well, not different at all, really.

This is news to me. That makes him suck even more in my book. Oh well. (Dark Pit not Dark Samus) Oh, by the way. Out of a random curiosity, who are your two favorite newcomers? If you had to choose two. Mine are Little Mac and Big Mac. I mean little mac and Villager, since they cater the most towards my playstyle.

 

[Fafnir]

As much as I find her a wholly undeserving rep to be in the game, I really do look forward to playing Palutena. Partly because those hips don't lie, and partly because she does look like a genuinely interesting character to play. After that, I'd probably like to have a go at Rosalina. I've yet to find much good footage of her, but from what I've seen so far, she does look at the very least very unique.

 

[Kazuhira Nishijo]

Mario reps don't bother me much each character has made name for themselves in their own right.

 

[Bassoonist]

This is one complaint I don't understand. Don't get me wrong, I don't care for the inclusion of Doctor Mario. However, seven Mario characters is not excessive in my mind. Mario is Nintendo's biggest franchise... It's more than that, really. Whatever it gets, it deserves, in my eyes. At least Rosalina and Bowser Jr. are entirely new characters, as well.

It's Kid Icarus getting more characters than franchises that are MUCH more prominent and relevant than itself that is where I put my foot down. Sakurai overdid it with KI in this game and there is no denying it. Mario... Not so much.

 

[Fafnir]

Just think, they even removed Isaac as an assist trophy (don't even dream about having him as a full on character) to make sure we had enough room for KI reps.

 

[LiamMail]

I think they increased mario reps because they didnt want more pokemon characters than mario

 

[Cyberguy64]

I certainly don't MIND Mario having a lot of reps. Still, it does contribute to the off-balance feel this roster has.

 

[L. Ambrosia]

I don't mind having mario reps if they add unique gameplay options. And so my only issue with them is the inclusion of Dr. Mario. I think most people can agree that a FLUD-less Mario and no Doctor would have been just fine, and dev time could be used on someone more worthwhile (even other clones would be better, eg wolf / lucas).

 

[sushifreAk]

room for one more?

You know who I'm talking about.

There is always room for you in my heart, Waluigi.

 

[Raijinken]

Out of all those you mentioned, Metroid needs it the most. Metroid's not dead yet, unlike Mother and F-Zero. If Star Fox can have 2 original characters in a period where it only got a remake, then Metroid can do the same and more.

More characters means more chances of a revival (well, for F-Zero. Itoi isn't interested in making more Mother), or at least that seems to be how Kid Icarus turned out. I remember seeing a lot of people go "Welp, time to get Awakening" after the Robin trailer and "Welp, time to get Xenoblade" after the Shulk trailer. But, at least hopefully, very few people who play Smash would ever have a need to say "Welp, time to play a Mario game" or "Welp, time to play some Pokemon."

Unlike the clone characters', whose development effort is so minimal, having already-large series' get more characters DOES feel like they're "stealing" the spots from other favorites, whether from unrepresented series like Golden Sun and Advance Wars, to underrepresented series like Mother and Metroid.

But again, at least we got two wholly fresh characters. I could not for the life of me imagine Bowser Jr as anything but a small lighter-weight Bowser when I heard people suggesting him for the game pre-confirmation.

 

[LIQUID12A]

I don't see why milking Nintendo's flagship series(with the exception of Dr who doesn't belong as a separate character) for characters is a problem when the issue of glaring KI bias is much more severe.

 

[Raijinken]

I don't see why milking Nintendo's flagship series(with the exception of Dr who doesn't belong as a separate character) for characters is a problem when the issue of glaring KI bias is much more severe.

KI is up to a 2.5 person roster and likely won't get more in the future. Mario is up to six direct, plus several (Yoshi, Wario) pretending to not be Mario characters, plus a returning veteran clone, and probably WILL get more in the future. That's why it's a bigger issue.

 

[LIQUID12A]

KI is up to a 2.5 person roster and likely won't get more in the future. Mario is up to six direct, plus several (Yoshi, Wario) pretending to not be Mario characters, plus a returning veteran clone, and probably WILL get more in the future. That's why it's a bigger issue.

Again, flagship series. I do agree it's a tad too much, especially with the potential for future Smash games, but me, personally, weighing the bias towards KI, even with drastically lower reps, against Mario getting many more reps, isn't that big of an issue for me. I do see where you come from and respect your stance, but that's just me.

Of course, once Mario takes up a third of the roster I'll complain.

 

[Raijinken]

Again, flagship series. I do agree it's a tad too much, especially with the potential for future Smash games, but me, personally, weighing the bias towards KI, even with drastically lower reps, against Mario getting many more reps, isn't that big of an issue for me. I do see where you come from and respect your stance, but that's just me.

Of course, once Mario takes up a third of the roster I'll complain.

Hopefully by then we'll get some new F-Zero and Metroid characters for a change, to distract us from the individually playable koopalings and every partner from Paper Mario.

Even if Mario is the flagship franchise of video games in general, Smash isn't a Mario game, it's a Nintendo game, and I at least feel like Nintendo should show off a bit more than Mario.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Hopefully by then we'll get some new F-Zero and Metroid characters for a change, to distract us from the individually playable koopalings and every partner from Paper Mario.

Even if Mario is the flagship franchise of video games in general, Smash isn't a Mario game, it's a Nintendo game, and I at least feel like Nintendo should show off a bit more than Mario.

To be fair, both series mentioned have a wealth of characters to adapt into Smash, but I'm pretty sure that their one shot status in said games(with the exception of Ridley) prevents them from making a splash in whatever character discussion meeting Sakurai has. It's no secret that I would kill for Sylux/Rundas, but again, one shots. Sylux especially could have a colorful moveset from his origin game.

True that Smash isn't Mario, but it's always going to show Mario front and center. I do agree on showing more than Mario, though.

 

[Raijinken]

To be fair, both series mentioned have a wealth of characters to adapt into Smash, but I'm pretty sure that their one shot status in said games(with the exception of Ridley) prevents them from making a splash in whatever character discussion meeting Sakurai has. It's no secret that I would kill for Sylux/Rundas, but again, one shots. Sylux especially could have a colorful moveset from his origin game.

True that Smash isn't Mario, but it's always going to show Mario front and center. I do agree on showing more than Mario, though.

If speculation is right and the ship at the end of Corruption does indeed belong to Sylux, maybe he'll appear again and gain some popularity.

And for what it's worth, for once Link is in front of Mario on the 3DS cover. Mario's closer to the center though.

 

[Skyfox2000]

I don't see why milking Nintendo's flagship series(with the exception of Dr who doesn't belong as a separate character) for characters is a problem when the issue of glaring KI bias is much more severe.

Super Mario is Nintendo's Best Selling Franchise. That's the reason why we see a lot Characters/Music/Stages. Are you still upset over Dr. Coming Back over Mewtwo (cause I do agree that is an outrage) Sakurai basically revived the Kid Icarus Franchise. if you haven't played it then you should it has some of the best Storytelling, Characters, Music, Personalities. The reason why we see so much KIU lately it's Sakurai's way of bragging. I think the real question is Why aren't you in the Middle East

 

[GunGunW]

Ever stop to think that regarding Metroid that it's not quite as a big of a deal as everyone makes it out to be? It's barely even in the top ten best selling Nintendo franchises. Nintendogs outsells it.

I don't have anything against it, and I wouldn't object to Metroid getting another character, but it's not one of "the big three".

But no, Mario is fine the way it is. If there were any more than maybe I could see the complaints. I would complain more about the stage selection since there's five mario stages and four of them are brand new.

 

[TheAnvil]

Ever stop to think that regarding Metroid that it's not quite as a big of a deal as everyone makes it out to be? It's barely even in the top ten best selling Nintendo franchises. Nintendogs outsells it.

I don't have anything against it, and I wouldn't object to Metroid getting another character, but it's not one of "the big three".

But no, Mario is fine the way it is. If there were any more than maybe I could see the complaints. I would complain more about the stage selection since there's five mario stages and four of them are brand new.

Nintendogs is an extremely sucessful franchise though. It's not prejorative to Metroid that Nintendogs outsells it, Nintendogs sells ****tons.

 

[Ben Holt]

No. Mario is the face of not just Nintendo, but video games as an art.
And I hope we get more via DLC.

 

[TheAnvil]

No. Mario is the face of not just Nintendo, but video games as an art.
And I hope we get more via DLC.

There are several more viable and popular Mario characters that could be added. Namely Toad (or better yet, Captain Toad) and Waluigi. You then also have the Paper Mario franchise that could easily warrant a single rep, maybe more (PM himself but I always thought Count Bleck would have been a great addition, and I know that Rawk Hawk has his share of fans).

So there are at least 3 more Mario reps to be had that have enough popularity and unique moveset potential to justify, without going overboard.

 

[Storm Eagle]

Only Dr. Mario. All others are fine.

 

[LordVacation]

Nahhh.
Mario is the God of Nintendo.
What'd we really get? Two new characters?
Rosalina was a perfect addition and couldn't be happier she's included,
and Bowser Jr. was one of my choices for Brawl so now that he's in it's a relieving feeling.
Doc being back is silly but still... he's a veteran technically speaking.

 

[Gidy]

Yes this is Super Mario Fighting. But who honestly cares. Look at all the other newcomers we got.

 

[DANICK]

well, Mario is the principal serie of nintendo, it's normal have more reps

 

[VKatana]

And Smash Bros is about Nintendo, not Sakurai's ego. It's pretty obvious that Kirby and KI have so much exposure due to Sakurai's bias, but that doesn't make it at all right.

Too many Kirby reps?! It's one of Nintendo's best known franchises, and it only has 3! Iwata wanted Dedede in SSB64 but Sakurai thought that'd be biased towards the Kirby. Kirby is a pretty big franchise, and I think 3 reps is perfect for it. No more no less. Personally, I'm not keeping any fingers crossed for Bandana Dee, although I was hoping for Isaac or Dark Samus.

 

[Fafnir]

And back in SSB64, Sakurai was still human. But now he's more ego than man.

Kirby is a fairly large franchise, but not a very large Nintendo franchise. It's a B lister, just like Starfox, F-Zero, and Metroid, amoung others. However, in the case of both Metroid and F-Zero, both titles have consistent reputations and histories of being the finest games in their genre, if not their entire respective eras. There's little doubt that Super Metroid will go down as the finest sidescroller, if not the finest game, of the last century.
In comparison, Kirby titles, while certainly not lacking in any particular aspect, also don't demand nearly as much as far as recognition or respect are concerned.