Too many Mario Reps?

[Phaazoid]

Meh, I still count them because they ARE a slot on the roster. They ARE a thing, but if we're going off of new/basic characters, yea, Metroid ((Someone that isn't samus preferably)) and DK are the two that need it most. Maybe Yoshi as well if someone could find a great character from his games.

I mean I'm not counting the final roster. I'm counting which series they felt were important enough to warrant new slots when they started development. Clones are freebies. I still agree with your main points.

 

[The Slayer]

After this game's roster was revealed, I lost all care for representation.

Brawl did that to me a long time ago. Once it nuked the one I would love to see in that roster, I really kept an open-minded view of character reps for this game. Overall, it's still pretty good. Most of the clones here didn't dash anyone's favorite character being in, so I'm not sure why people worry about it over-repping. Especially so when the Mario series is literally Nintendo primary flashship series. Yeah, a character I liked became an AT, but I'm glad
they recognized said character and rep in a good way.

My only gripe with this roster is that Ganondorf is still clonish of Falcon. To me, that's far worse than Dark Pit and Dr. Mario since Ganondorf and Falcon (aside from manliness) have nothing connecting each other from their game universes while most of the other clones/semi clones still make sense. After two games, you would think to have some kind of game plan to make him different. But nope, have some moar Falondorf!

 

[MagnesD3]

Brawl did that to me a long time ago. Once it nuked the one I would love to see in that roster, I really kept an open-minded view of character reps for this game. Overall, it's still pretty good. Most of the clones here didn't dash anyone's favorite character being in, so I'm not sure why people worry about it over-repping. Especially so when the Mario series is literally Nintendo primary flashship series. Yeah, a character I liked became an AT, but I'm glad
they recognized said character and rep in a good way.

My only gripe with this roster is that Ganondorf is still clonish of Falcon. To me, that's far worse than Dark Pit and Dr. Mario since Ganondorf and Falcon (aside from manliness) have nothing connecting each other from their game universes while most of the other clones/semi clones still make sense. After two games, you would think to have some kind of game plan to make him different. But nope, have some moar Falondorf!

Brawl had a great roster what problem did you have with it overall?

 

[Ravestickman]

Brawl had a great roster what problem did you have with it overall?

Hey! I remember seeing you in the Ridley forum :D What's up? Also, I think Wolf should be in over Falco.... Or, take away one of the mario reps ((Dr. Mario)) and put in Wolf

 

[MagnesD3]

Hey! I remember seeing you in the Ridley forum :D What's up? Also, I think Wolf should be in over Falco.... Or, take away one of the mario reps ((Dr. Mario)) and put in Wolf

Yep Ridley was my most wanted newcomer but now I can't even worry about him since Wolf is in trouble, leave it to sakurai to make me go from happily speculating about newcomers only to have him backstab me with worry for veterans. Wolf, Mewtwo, and Ridley should be in this game. (Among other things). And it's a tragedy they are not.

 

[Shane Lee Shin]

Analyzing each Mario character-
The obvious:
Mario: Obvious, Mr. Nintendo deserves a spot.
Luigi: There just is no Mario without the Green Shadow
Yoshi: The mentor and helper, I'm in.
Bowser: The most notorious rival in gaming? Sign him up
Peach: The most notorious damsel in gaming? No problem with that.

Now for the less needy:
Wario: Well, he is THE anti-hero, though not necessary
Rosalina: ummm... well... a strong independent woman... but no game on her own... the most developed story character??
Bowser Jr: The main rivals sidekick.... no reason he should be here... his only selling point is that each koopa kid replaces him...

Now for everyone's seemingly least favorite:
Dr. Mario: an alternate moveset to Mr. Nintendo? Count me in! The work to put him in isn't great, he doesn't actually stop production of other characters, AND he is a huge nod to competitive players of melee who mained the doc or Mario himself.

So basically, my main thought here is that Dr. Mario is more deserving of a spot than Wario, Rosalina, or Bowser Jr. Why? Cause each one takes up time they could have spent representing other series, like Lucas, Dixie, Wolf, Ridley, K. Rool, or the Ice Climbers. Dr Mario doesn't take that time away from other characters, but Wario, Rosalina, and Bowser Jr. do.

 

[The Slayer]

Brawl had a great roster what problem did you have with it overall?

I had problems with Brawl's roster? Where did I said that?

 

[MagnesD3]

I had problems with Brawl's roster? Where did I said that?

You said brawls roster maid you not care about franchise representation when it did a good job and I wondered why it changed your mind.

 

[DarkDedede]

I wonder if the developers had long drawn out conversations like this, when they were planning the roster.

Probably worse.

 

[Ravestickman]

Yep Ridley was my most wanted newcomer but now I can't even worry about him since Wolf is in trouble, leave it to sakurai to make me go from happily speculating about newcomers only to have him backstab me with worry for veterans. Wolf, Mewtwo, and Ridley should be in this game. (Among other things). And it's a tragedy they are not.

I agree with the above statement. Also, I don't see why Dr. Mario couldn't be an alt for Mario, and his moves be custom moves for mario...

 

[MagnesD3]

I wonder if the developers had long drawn out conversations like this, when they were planning the roster.

Probably worse.

No sakurai does what he wants, gets paid, sleeps like a baby next to his wife who does the menus and casuals love him for it and it makes me sick.

 

[The Slayer]

You said brawls roster maid you not care about franchise representation when it did a good job and I wondered why it changed your mind.

Doesn't mean I have a problem with it. Did it do a good job with the roster? Maybe, but I was more so worried about the gameplay afterward than anything, and it wasn't all there for me. And the roster wasn't attractive enough to keep me playing. However, it just means I don't obsess over what characters should get in or not for future installments because it just another thing to get upset over nothing.

 

[MagnesD3]

Doesn't mean I have a problem with it. Did it do a good job with the roster? Maybe, but I was more so worried about the gameplay afterward than anything, and it wasn't all there for me. And the roster wasn't attractive enough to keep me playing. However, it just means I don't obsess over what characters should get in or not for future installments because it just another thing to get upset over nothing.

Who in the world could have upset the roster for you as in representation wise (mewtwo, Ridley? To be fair both series got new representation even though I agree both mewtwo and rids should be in) also yes the gameplay of brawl was mediocre.

 

[Aguki90]

It's very high if you count Yoshi and Wario like I do, but Doc is more like a costume. I don't mind the amount, but compared to the amount that other series get its really absurd.

If Super Mario gets 8ish yoshi, wario, and jr, then
Pokemon should be 7 or 8
Zelda should be 6 (not counting T. Link)
Donkey Kong should have at least K. Rool and
Metroid should have at least one other rep (Ridley or Dark Samus).

It's fine to have Nintendo's biggest franchise with a lot of reps as long as all of them are important, but it's not fine when other big Nintendo franchises get 1/2 or even 1/4 the amount of reps.

That the problem... And that why my friend, Mario is always talk about nintendo when 10 more franchise need more attention to be in smash bros. than have more Pokemon and Mario. Then repeat, more mario and pokemon. I wish nintendo could see other franchise and revive them, better say, I want more character like Duck Hunt, Shulk, Little Mac and Wii Fit Trainer! I want that obscurity soo smash will not feel like Mario and pokemon All-star game and more like Nintendo Universe.

But for now, let Mario dominate this time, but, next time. I want new franchise join in. and Yeah DK, Metroid, Star Fox and even Wario Land/Ware need more attention like Bigger presentation. Especially DK in my opinion.

 

[Shane Lee Shin]

I agree with the above statement. Also, I don't see why Dr. Mario couldn't be an alt for Mario, and his moves be custom moves for mario...

So you can use his moveset online....

 

[Ravestickman]

So you can use his moveset online....

That's why Luigi is a thing? I mean, they aren't clones but, I honestly don't see why DR. Mario is back if Luigi's a character.

 

[Shane Lee Shin]

That's why Luigi is a thing? I mean, they aren't clones but, I honestly don't see why DR. Mario is back if Luigi's a character.

Mario's basic attacks are way different considering applicability. Also, the side B makes a HUGE difference considering KO strategies. To top it all off, Luigi and Mario move about the stage WAY differently, with Luigi sliding frequently and Mario barely if at all. A melee Mario main is not often good with Luigi, and vice versa.

 

[The Slayer]

Who in the world could have upset the roster for you as in representation wise (mewtwo, Ridley? To be fair both series got new representation even though I agree both mewtwo and rids should be in) also yes the gameplay of brawl was mediocre.

I'm indifferent if they actually pop in this game or any future installment, heck even more so when Mewtwo was cut from Melee to Brawl transition. Probably Sonic/ROB/Toon Link did made me a little annoyed at the time, but clearly they have reasons to be in the game and I accepted that after awhile. Aside from that, didn't really cared afterwards and really not caring now. But even then, the roster for this game isn't bad looking.

 

[Davidius]

The tonne of Mario stuff would be more excusable if not for the fact that they culled characters from smaller series. I get it, it's a crossover, and Mario is a big franchise. But realistically, beyond the 4 in Brawl, Mario does not really have characters that are totally warranted for inclusion. "More Mario characters for Mario character's sake" is an awful design philosophy imo. I thought Rosalina was reaching a bit, but Bowser Jr. and Dr. Mario as well? There's really no need for that when they apparently can't find the time to return characters from smaller series. Mother, Ice Climber and Star Fox losing reps and adding three more Mario characters in their place? No. That is just awful in a crossover game.

Mario doesn't need extra characters to be well represented after all. There's a million items and stages in the game, which is far beyond what every other series gets (except kid icarus amirite?)

 

[ChikoLad]

With the exception of Dr. Mario, who is an unnecessary extra and always will be, I feel the Mario roster is finally complete in Smash.

Remember, Mario didn't get any new reps in Brawl (Diddy Kong and Wario represent the Donkey Kong franchise and the Wario franchise respectively - I consider characters with the Mushroom symbol to be "Super Mario" reps, as the trophy section in Brawl lists them). So I think having two, non-clone newcomers is fine, especially since they got the two last main characters of Mario into Smash now (along with Koopaling alts for Jr, as a bonus).

If anything, I think this just means they can skip out on adding a new Mario character in the next Smash Bros, as nobody else is really necessary, they'd just be extra fluff (like Dr. Mario is).

 

[TheAnvil]

With the exception of Dr. Mario, who is an unnecessary extra and always will be, I feel the Mario roster is finally complete in Smash.

Remember, Mario didn't get any new reps in Brawl (Diddy Kong and Wario represent the Donkey Kong franchise and the Wario franchise respectively - I consider characters with the Mushroom symbol to be "Super Mario" reps, as the trophy section in Brawl lists them). So I think having two, non-clone newcomers is fine, especially since they got the two last main characters of Mario into Smash now (along with Koopaling alts for Jr, as a bonus).

If anything, I think this just means they can skip out on adding a new Mario character in the next Smash Bros, as nobody else is really necessary, they'd just be extra fluff (like Dr. Mario is).

The Mario roster won't be complete until at the very least Toad is added.

 

[ChikoLad]

The Mario roster won't be complete until at the very least Toad is added.

There's the bae. <3

 

[HenryZusa]

The only think I didn't completely like about Mario representation is having Shadow Mario as a Final Smash instead of a transformation between Bowser Jr. (With the paintbrush)/Shadow Mario ala Zelda/Sheik.
But oh well, didn't expected this either so I'm pretty glad with the way this turned out.

EDIT: I've never been someone who wants Toad as a newcomer for Smash, but seeing Captain Toad makes me think he may have some chance for the next game.

 

[Gerpington]

The only think I didn't completely like about Mario representation is having Shadow Mario as a Final Smash instead of a transformation between Bowser Jr. (With the paintbrush)/Shadow Mario ala Zelda/Sheik.
But oh well, didn't expected this either so I'm pretty glad with the way this turned out.

EDIT: I've never been someone who wants Toad as a newcomer for Smash, but seeing Captain Toad makes me think he may have some chance for the next game.

Captain toad as a smash rep? I'm not opposed to it, but what the heck would he do? Toads aren't exactly known for their combat versatility. Captain toad is kind of known for his lack there of, actually.

 

[ChikoLad]

On the subject of Captain Toad, he'd be an awesome Assist Trophy. But he can't be playable.

I love the guy, but making him playable in Smash would actually be a misrepresentation of his character. One of the biggest hooks of his upcoming game is that Mario enemies like Goombas and Shy Guys, who are normally a breeze to deal with, are suddenly a genuine threat, due to Captain Toad's inability to jump, attack without assistance, etc. Enemies like that are present in Smash Bros, and are a breeze to deal with, arguably more so than before...so yeah, making Captain Toad playable doesn't make any sense, as much as I have loved him since Galaxy.

In fact, I'd argue a similar case for generic Toads, but it applies to Captain Toad tenfold.

 

[Gerpington]

On the subject of Captain Toad, he'd be an awesome Assist Trophy. But he can't be playable.

I love the guy, but making him playable in Smash would actually be a misrepresentation of his character. One of the biggest hooks of his upcoming game is that Mario enemies like Goombas and Shy Guys, who are normally a breeze to deal with, are suddenly a genuine threat, due to Captain Toad's inability to jump, attack without assistance, etc. Enemies like that are present in Smash Bros, and are a breeze to deal with, arguably more so than before...so yeah, making Captain Toad playable doesn't make any sense, as much as I have loved him since Galaxy.

In fact, I'd argue a similar case for generic Toads, but it applies to Captain Toad tenfold.

I agree with you completely. I believe he'd make for a humorous joke assist similar to starfy in brawl.

 

[ChikoLad]

I imagine he would actually be like Isabella, but instead of throwing healing items, he would dig up offensive or equip-able items and run specifically towards you to give them to you, and hold on to them if you already have an item.

 

[Gerpington]

I imagine he would actually be like Isabella, but instead of throwing healing items, he would dig up offensive or equip-able items and run specifically towards you to give them to you, and hold on to them if you already have an item.

That's something I could get behind as well.

 

[TheAnvil]

There's the bae. <3

That Toad is not "READY FOR ADVENTURE".

 

[Wyntir]

Did u know that Mario IS the main mascot for Nintendo? [NO WAY]

 

[Davidius]

Did u know that Mario IS the main mascot for Nintendo? [NO WAY]

That doesn't mean we can't be critical of a decision to heavily represent it at the expense of other franchises. It is a crossover game after all.

 

[TheAnvil]

That doesn't mean we can't be critical of a decision to heavily represent it at the expense of other franchises. It is a crossover game after all.

The Mario characters are completely justifiable. They've both played pivital roles in some of the most popular Nintendo games of all time.

If you want to blame any franchises being heavily represented at the expense of more deserving ones, look no further than Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem.

 

[Boofer]

I don't know, I kind of feel like Mario can have as many reps as the creators want. Mario pretty much is Nintendo. I'm not the biggest fan of the characters themselves, but the franchise is just on another level imo.

 

[AidanTheGreat]

I don't know, I kind of feel like Mario can have as many reps as the creators want. Mario pretty much is Nintendo. I'm not the biggest fan of the characters themselves, but the franchise is just on another level imo.

I agree with this. It's what started them, and what still for the most part leads there sales. (Although some 3DS and WII-U games other than mario are selling really well, mario is still always in the top 5. )

 

[Wyntir]

That doesn't mean we can't be critical of a decision to heavily represent it at the expense of other franchises. It is a crossover game after all.

Lol I was being sarcastic. Relax

 

[MagnesD3]

On the subject of Captain Toad, he'd be an awesome Assist Trophy. But he can't be playable.

I love the guy, but making him playable in Smash would actually be a misrepresentation of his character. One of the biggest hooks of his upcoming game is that Mario enemies like Goombas and Shy Guys, who are normally a breeze to deal with, are suddenly a genuine threat, due to Captain Toad's inability to jump, attack without assistance, etc. Enemies like that are present in Smash Bros, and are a breeze to deal with, arguably more so than before...so yeah, making Captain Toad playable doesn't make any sense, as much as I have loved him since Galaxy.

In fact, I'd argue a similar case for generic Toads, but it applies to Captain Toad tenfold.

It really depends on what he will be using to gain vertical altitude in his games. I agree he cant jump but something else could jump for him but this remains to be seen.

 

[ChikoLad]

It really depends on what he will be using to gain vertical altitude in his games. I agree he cant jump but something else could jump for him but this remains to be seen.

Mostly hills and ladders, from what's been shown so far. And Warp Pipes.

 

[MagnesD3]

Mostly hills and ladders, from what's been shown so far. And Warp Pipes.

What if his jumps were the lift thing from 3d land, that you blow on.

 

[Tino]

The way I see it, the Mario representation was complete back when Rosalina was confirmed. I don't care about Dr. Mario that much and I certainly don't give a damn about Bowser Jr, who's gonna be my new punching bag.

 

[Roy-Kun]

There's never enough Mario reps. Bring me Captain Toad!

Joking, but at this point I think it doesn't need any more reps until a new and popular character appears in the "main" Mario games (not spinoffs like Mario Kart, Mario Party, Mario Golf or Mario Tennis, etc.)