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~Tome of The Dragmire~ v1.5

RPK

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Messages
1,710
Location
Santa Clara, California
Shin, could you check out the new Perfect Shielding/Powershielding and see what works well? Video link explaining stuff in case you haven't seen it. I think jabs could go nicely, but maybe tilts and some other stuff?

Could you explore this a little bit for us? Would be nice.
Seems like Ganon's side+B would go nicely with it as well...God Im so glad Powershielding is easier in Brawl =^o^= In melee it was like, okay press L, or R 2-3 frames before getting hit...Seriously wtf >.< But yeah, for us it would probably be best to either jab, forward or down tilt , or side+B.
 

Dragmire

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
1,860
Location
Portjohnington,Wisjohnsin
give him some time he's got most everything needed for ganon players I suppose the only thing would be Char specific tactics but that'll take years to master
 

~Shin~

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
159
Location
Eugene, Oregon
I've been working guys, sorry. That, and, lazy.
Going over to play Smash means I have to wait in line as 10 other people play, so, its not as enjoyable as other things.

blech... what do I need to do. after Up B, you can follow up with an aerial approaching opponent with Down B (which worked very well.)
No you can't chain-throw the psychic kids, they kick you in the face or shoot lazorx (though, I down-threw once, and forward smashed them for thinking i'd try it again. Take that bratz!) Olamar is rediculouse... He plays a very campy game and I don't know how the heck to approach them... /growls

I've been trying to walk forward. You know. Just hold the direction towards your oppponent, not SLAM to run, but just, a power-walk. It actually helps me learn to play defensively more, and ..well, that helps.
Snake is redunculouse too. He survives to 200% every freaking time and I don't know how. Ask 2dios how he makes every char broken. He's a great player.

I'm steadily learning which characters you can Forward + B and Immediately thunder punch

Ike
Rob
ughhh... I forget.

Brawl comes out freakin soon, gimi a break.
Besides, this guide doesn't have a sticky, so I guess its not that important huh? Where the f*** are the mods?
-sigh-
gotta work tomorrow, same story.
I'll get up with this sometime, you can bet on that. for now, this is the MOST of it.
And yes, it will take a long time to realize strats against other characters.

Chain-throwing DDD is hard to beat atm.

oh, I hit twice with a volcano kick, second time it hit, ness died.
Up B uppercut still kills for me.
We have a vid coming up prolly tomorrow, i'll prod it a lil and show ya'll.

~Shin_Ganondorf~

omg work sux
 

Josiah

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 1, 2006
Messages
30
Location
Carlisle, PA
I know it's been mentioned as a tactic to forward-b someone, walk away and then forward-b again just after their get-up attack finishes.

Maybe this isn't very practical, but that's kind of why I'm asking, to see if it is or not.

Suppose instead of forward-B again, if your opponent gets up in place, you walk away like you're going to do it again, but instead do a turned-around neutral B. In essence, you walk just out of range of their get-up attack, they miss and then get pummeled.

If the attack's fast enough it sounds plausible to me, so I'm gonna try it out when Brawl's out. At the very least, it helps mix things up a bit.
 

:034:

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
7,562
Location
Netherlands
Besides, this guide doesn't have a sticky, so I guess its not that important huh? Where the f*** are the mods?
I've been wondering the same for like... Ever! For the King of Evil's sake, we have four freaking threads about the way Ganon looks.

But yeah, take your time, Shin. I'll be getting myself a Free Loader for Brawl, so we can hopefully play online sometime. I'm so ready to get my *** kicked. :D
 

~Shin~

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
159
Location
Eugene, Oregon
But yeah, take your time, Shin. I'll be getting myself a Free Loader for Brawl, so we can hopefully play online sometime. I'm so ready to get my *** kicked. :D
oh lol, don't worry. And by the way fourleafclover guy thinks i'm trash anyway, so, you know, EVERYONE is better than me and yadi-yadi. luls.
No but, for real. This game is very very fun, I can even have a hard match-up against people who didn't L-cancel or wavedash or mind-games in the melee version of smash. Its great! I mean look at it this way.

You get a good experience from fighting just about ANYONE now. You don't have to be so far up the chain with your skills that people HAVE to know THIS or THAT to be able to have a chance, and give you that beautiful experience we all know and love when we have an increadible battle ahead of us.

I'm loving this game.

Oh and just for the record. It says in the strategy guide, anyone with projectiles counters Ganon, be careful.
Also, when I first played Ganon I was so excited I thought he had got changed and was faster and his jump was higher, that was wrong lololol, the room I was in had higher gravity. My roomies were like, wow your excited. And I was like YES YES!! I LOVE BUFFS!! and no, were still slow as hell. -sigh-

I heard pit had his jumps and up+b nerfed in English version
We'll do some testing and find out what else is different, and I'll edit my guide appropriatly.

-pizza 'n pop for breakfast WOO!!

~Shin_Ganondorf~

For those who see me online, my name will be SHIN
 

Magus420

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
4,541
Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
I know it's been mentioned as a tactic to forward-b someone, walk away and then forward-b again just after their get-up attack finishes.

Maybe this isn't very practical, but that's kind of why I'm asking, to see if it is or not.

Suppose instead of forward-B again, if your opponent gets up in place, you walk away like you're going to do it again, but instead do a turned-around neutral B. In essence, you walk just out of range of their get-up attack, they miss and then get pummeled.

If the attack's fast enough it sounds plausible to me, so I'm gonna try it out when Brawl's out. At the very least, it helps mix things up a bit.
If you walk away though they should be able to just roll away instead of get up attacking and be safe.

You might be able to cover all options by instead walking right ontop of them after the fwd-B so you balance the distance between a roll in either direction as much as you can, and then either shield and wait or wait for any movement then shield (depends if the getup atk comes out faster than you can react which is like ~12 frames), and then fwd-B out of shield if they rolled or grab out of shield if they getup attack or stand. If it does work though it'd be very hard to do reaction time wise and require a lot of practice.
 

BEHR

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
5,371
Location
NC
I've been working guys, sorry. That, and, lazy.
Going over to play Smash means I have to wait in line as 10 other people play, so, its not as enjoyable as other things.

blech... what do I need to do. after Up B, you can follow up with an aerial approaching opponent with Down B (which worked very well.)
No you can't chain-throw the psychic kids, they kick you in the face or shoot lazorx (though, I down-threw once, and forward smashed them for thinking i'd try it again. Take that bratz!) Olamar is rediculouse... He plays a very campy game and I don't know how the heck to approach them... /growls

I've been trying to walk forward. You know. Just hold the direction towards your oppponent, not SLAM to run, but just, a power-walk. It actually helps me learn to play defensively more, and ..well, that helps.
Snake is redunculouse too. He survives to 200% every freaking time and I don't know how. Ask 2dios how he makes every char broken. He's a great player.

I'm steadily learning which characters you can Forward + B and Immediately thunder punch

Ike
Rob
ughhh... I forget.

Brawl comes out freakin soon, gimi a break.
Besides, this guide doesn't have a sticky, so I guess its not that important huh? Where the f*** are the mods?
-sigh-
gotta work tomorrow, same story.
I'll get up with this sometime, you can bet on that. for now, this is the MOST of it.
And yes, it will take a long time to realize strats against other characters.

Chain-throwing DDD is hard to beat atm.

oh, I hit twice with a volcano kick, second time it hit, ness died.
Up B uppercut still kills for me.
We have a vid coming up prolly tomorrow, i'll prod it a lil and show ya'll.

~Shin_Ganondorf~

omg work sux
I played Brawl today I was able to hit the Forward b to Jab on
Snake
Ike
Charizard
Ivysaur
DDD

maybe make a list on the front page of people who can get hit by the combo.
 

kamikaze falco

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
1,209
Location
Keokuk, Iowa
i was playing a ton of ganondorf today and I found out two things. His reverse u air is amazing. It's really powerful, and it gimps like a madman. Also his short hop fast falled nair is about his fastest move. It's pretty good.
 

Lord Genome

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
5
I played Brawl today I was able to hit the Forward b to Jab on
Snake
Ike
Charizard
Ivysaur
DDD

maybe make a list on the front page of people who can get hit by the combo.
Hey guys, new member here, though I've been reading the forums for a while now before Brawl's release. Thought I'd pop in and give a definitive list on this matter, as I discovered it myself before hearing about it here and then checked every character.

Ganondorf can combo his forward B and jab with EVERYONE BUT THE FOLLOWING:

Mario, Link, Fox, Falco, Marth, Zelda, Sheik, Squirtle, Peach, Ganondorf, Sonic, Ness, Lucario, Toon Link, Captain Falcon, and Zero Suit Samus.

Pretty happy about it, as I've never seen anyone recover in time to avoid the jab.

*edit: Something to note - this was tested on a FLAT SURFACE (Final Destination). Angled surfaces can change this. If you're attacking someone on an incline from below, I'm quite sure you can hit ANYONE with the jab after the forward+b. If you're attacking from above on an incline, most likely you won't be able to hit anyone at all. Possibly the larger heavyweights (Bowser, Charizard, Dedede), but I haven't tested this.
 

Crow02

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
9
Over the next few days I'm going to test if you can do a down tilt after the sideB. Unfortunately I do not have a human opponent to help me, but a lvl 9 CPU does not appear to be able to escape from this. Seems to work even on chars the thunder punch follow up doesn't work on. If this works it could be huge: sideB becomes a kill move at high percentages and a combo starter at low percentages, since down tilt launches.
EDIT: Nope, doesn't seem to work on human opponents, as far as I can tell, too bad.
I've had a good deal of luck with this combo against human opponents. I'll give it some more review tonight but I hit with it a lot and at low percents the down tilt leads very nicely into a dash attack. Let's not discount it so quickly
 

SN3S

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
194
I've had a good deal of luck with this combo against human opponents. I'll give it some more review tonight but I hit with it a lot and at low percents the down tilt leads very nicely into a dash attack. Let's not discount it so quickly
True, and I've found it also works on those characters that the jab doesn't always hit. And like you said, at low percentages it does lead into some combos.

For me right now, the hardest part of Ganondorf is timing his moves right; I still time them like I did in melee :laugh:
 

~Shin~

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
159
Location
Eugene, Oregon
For me right now, the hardest part of Ganondorf is timing his moves right; I still time them like I did in melee
You and me both bro, its been a real b*tch learning Ganon all over again. Its not as easy as it seemed.

Omg I hit with the Volcano Kick all the time. ooh-ooh, we can trigger Snakes Downsmash bomb to go off with the air-current of our Volcano Kick (up-tilt) yay for useless information.
/winzies


~Shin_Ganondorf~
 

SN3S

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
194
You and me both bro, its been a real b*tch learning Ganon all over again. Its not as easy as it seemed.

Omg I hit with the Volcano Kick all the time. ooh-ooh, we can trigger Snakes Downsmash bomb to go off with the air-current of our Volcano Kick (up-tilt) yay for useless information.
/winzies


~Shin_Ganondorf~
Lol. At first I was skeptical about the new volcano kick.

Until I edgeguarded my little bro's Wolf on FD. From a full two Ganon's Distance away :laugh:

He was coming up on the ledge, and my foot just barely came down on the tip of it. Ganon'd. :bee:

*edit* Some Ganon Play :3
 

Anomilus

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 30, 2004
Messages
1,217
Location
The space between genius and madness
NNID
Hyperdon
I was playing some online matches with Ganondorf, and I'm pretty positive about this...

- Volcano Kick has Heavy Frames!! -

It's at the very end when he drops his foot down. Not once, but twice my opponent slashed at me with a Beam Sword an instant before the explosion from his heel went off. Both times I saw the sword go right through Ganondorf, who didn't budge at all. I wasn't paying attention to the damage%, but the swords definitely went through!

There was another time though I did get hit right around that moment, so I'm not positive on the actual timing. Also, all attacks came from behind and not in front (...well, if anyone WAS in front, they'd be dead).

It needs more testing, but just letting you guys in this topic know this.
 

Manu

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
73
Just a theory at the moment since I don't have a human player to try it out against but its worked on some comps, cant Ganon shorthop, air dodge the sword (swords kill his ForwardB) and go for the thunderpunch? The new Brawl to me is all about the dodging and shielding and with two grabs Ganon has got shielders easy. His approaches are limited but this seems like a safe bet, especially considering if he gets a shield grab happy opponent he can Forward B.
 

Josiah

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 1, 2006
Messages
30
Location
Carlisle, PA
I think I have the lagless dair down pretty good now, at least without any opponents around. It's still a bit tricky for me to whip it out in the middle of an actual fight. At the moment I have to change the positioning of my fingers on the button to be able to do it well, though going back and forth between positioning isn't too hard.

"Thunder Storm" sounds kind of nice as a name for this technique as someone else suggested...but I kind of like a funnier name I came up with for it instead.

BUNNY-STOMPING!!
 

WastingPenguins

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
827
Location
Ohio
I think I have the lagless dair down pretty good now, at least without any opponents around. It's still a bit tricky for me to whip it out in the middle of an actual fight. At the moment I have to change the positioning of my fingers on the button to be able to do it well, though going back and forth between positioning isn't too hard.

"Thunder Storm" sounds kind of nice as a name for this technique as someone else suggested...but I kind of like a funnier name I came up with for it instead.

BUNNY-STOMPING!!
C'mon people. Flick up on the control stick and down on the c-stick. Using this method you can do continuous sh stomps, effortlessly, and way more importantly you can even do sh stomps while RUNNING, as many times as you want, and it's super easyWhy wear out your fingers trying to do it another way, especially if you're obviously having a ton of trouble with that method?
 

Zarez

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
69
How good can Ganondorf be if you become nearly perfect at sheilding and dodging, against an oppoenent who is just as good?
 

Noveno

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
8
Alright, I wasn't sure if I should make a new thread or just ask this here...

What's a good way to handle ranged attackers? Particularly those that know how to spam them and keep you way. I was fighting a Link today and every time I got anywhere close he'd use his boomerang and bombs to throw me around. I've had trouble with good Pit's before too.

Just wondering if there are any good tactics, or any specific combos that work well on these guys.
 

T03nemesis

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
11
Alright, I wasn't sure if I should make a new thread or just ask this here...

What's a good way to handle ranged attackers? Particularly those that know how to spam them and keep you way. I was fighting a Link today and every time I got anywhere close he'd use his boomerang and bombs to throw me around. I've had trouble with good Pit's before too.

Just wondering if there are any good tactics, or any specific combos that work well on these guys.

My bro mains pit and my buddy mains Link, so i totally feel ya here.

What works well for me is simply mixing up dodges as you approach. Do a dash, then side dodge, then roll towards them, then jump and air dodge. Not in that, or any particular order, just keep mixing it up.

On your approach stop more than the length of thier smash attack away (about two persons), then judge them, if they are gonna block use your side B, if they are gonna dodge use your down B, if they start charging up another projectile, simply jump and smash em on the head with ur F air.

I do not recommend getting right up next to them, there isnt anything you can throw at them faster than they can throw at you especially if they are staring at you while u approach them. The last thing you want is to get smashed, cause it will put you right back into that terrible ranged disadvantage.

I cant say me or my friends are the best smashers in the world, this is what works for me, and its pretty good in my opinion. Once you get your spacing down and you have the feel for exactly how far your enemy can roll and how far your side B goes, it will get easier.
 

Nobie

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 27, 2002
Messages
2,156
NNID
SDShamshel
3DS FC
2809-8958-8223
Whether or not Flame Choke into Thunder Punch works depends simply on the shape of the opponent's model when they're lying on the ground.
The combo works on Meta Knight because whether he's standing up or lying on the ground, he's still the same shape, i.e. a sphere.

Though if you can't follow up with a Thunder Punch the forward tilt and down tilt are still available.
 

SN3S

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
194
I figured out something the other day. Ganon can stop pit's arrows with his jab. Just push A with the right timing, and that fist will crush those so-called blessed arrows :laugh: It might get a bit tricky to time after a while, especially if the opponent catches on, but it'll give you another option for some approach/defense against that wily angel...
 

kintaro

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
4
I think I may have discovered something interesting that hopefully hasn't been posted yet. Forward B to forward smash. It may seem slow, but I've been able to (somewhat) consistently do it to level 9 bots (since I don't have any real people to try it on at the moment). When I do the forward smash, I make sure that I angle it downward so it can hit the short ones. I've only done it to Pikachu and some others that I forgot. The timing is very difficult (at least to me) but I think it's worth looking into. Anyone care to test it out? I really can't right now.
 

kintaro

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
4
Are you sure? I think if you get the timing perfect enough, it can be done.
 

Crow02

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
9
The only attack that you can do reliably out of Ganon's side B seems to be his jab, and that depends on what character your opponent is playing. F Smash is a really good option for when they roll behind you though.

Has anyone tried Side B to a lagless Short Hopped Dair? It might be slow and wont work if they roll but if they do a get-up attack or don't move quick enough it would be a great way to force them to roll in the future. If it works then you can basically force them to roll back by either Dairing them if they stay still or chaining more Side B if they roll forward. I'll have to try this out.
 

Ganny

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
208
Location
Florida
I expanded on this combo a bit

You can B left/right him and then follow up immediately with a punch doing a good chunk of damage. If the character di's in the right direction, you can repeat. If he can't be hit with the punch, you have to either down a him (if he attacks right off the ground) or smash downwards (if he rolls backwards). If he rolls away from you, follow with a b down. If you hit him with an a down tilt, you can maybe follow up with the next combo.

You can B up him and smash him to the ground, following with a b down. Even a hairpin messes this combo up, but it lands sometimes. Does good damage too.
 

ChumpMoney

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Messages
1,053
excellent guide there

any comments from you all here regarding uair as a edge guard? be it running off edge to uair a recovering opponent or u air facing away from recovering opponent to spike?
 

Crow02

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
9
any comments from you all here regarding uair as a edge guard? be it running off edge to uair a recovering opponent or u air facing away from recovering opponent to spike?
Uair seems to be a pretty solid and versatile move all around. When it comes to edgeguarding though there's two moves that I think work better than Uair, though they're far more situational. If you're edgeguarding chances are that your opponent is at a high percent, which means that if Fair connects (especially if your target is off the stage already) it will kill, so if the target is lining up for a Fair, I'll use that every time. The other move that I don't see many people mentioning here (though its probably just a given) is Dair, which is a great spike move that isn't that hard to connect. Uair is a solid choice when you can't connect these two but if you can make a more assured kill with the other two, why not?
 

Cdbobo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 24, 2006
Messages
265
Location
Pleasant Grove, UT
So I read all 6 pages, and none of this stuff was mentioned! Yay!
Excellent guide, although I did see one thing that didn't make sense: "I wish I had platforms to speed me up..this is going to stink running across this stupid final destination" There are no platforms on FD :/. But I know what you meant anyway of course :).

A few things I've figured out while beating sandbag up waiting for with anyone's to work:

The Fair IS auto-lag cancellable. You just have to jump, dj-a really fast. I just hit y with the tip of my thumb and then flatten it onto the A button almost at the same time. It's kind of hard, but gets easier and easier as you try it out, and man is it scary looking ^_^. As far as uses, I can only see it being viable in teams, 1vs1 at low percents, or as a mindgame.

The Nair is auto lag cancellable just by full jumping, and then the bair/uair auto lag cancel regardless. On the subject of the bair, someone mentioned they couldn't hit short characters with it; you can, you just have to delay it almost as you would a ground-based uair in melee. It doesn't have any more sex-kick properties :(.

The Jab has MORE range than the ftilt. I'm almost certain on that... regardless, they're close, so if you need a quick whack use the jab but if you want a kill and have a bit more time use ftilt.

Dtilt has much more range than both the neutral a and ftilt.

Also I found a combo that works fairly well, B> dtilt or jab --> utilt. I've hit with it twice out of the four times I've tried it, and man does it hurt :).

On the topic of Bunny Stomping/Thunder Storm, are you guys saying you can short hop dair and have it auto lag cancel?? I haven't been able to do that, but then again I didn't try because I could already full jump auto lag cancel it easily and that suited my purposes well enough.. but if I can short hop it..... Ganon is officially broken o.O.
 

:034:

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
7,562
Location
Netherlands
On the topic of Bunny Stomping/Thunder Storm, are you guys saying you can short hop dair and have it auto lag cancel?? I haven't been able to do that, but then again I didn't try because I could already full jump auto lag cancel it easily and that suited my purposes well enough.. but if I can short hop it..... Ganon is officially broken o.O.
Here.

10ganons
 
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