Tomafia 4: Game Over - Mafia Wins!

[Lore]

--- Yeah Medi has been super soft on quite a few things, minus the Pythag read and his bringing up of how correct he was. He still remains a firm scum read on my end.

Good content on Matunas, though. I don't think that's enough for me to change to a scum lean on them, but I'd like to see Matunas respond, so I can gauge their reaction.

The A1 is referring to the grid of possible setups for 2d3 mafia, as seen in the wiki link.


Tewn has definitely been quiet, but I chalk their repeat of mine/SB's talking points to being new. It's still a slot that I'd like to continue reading more of, but newness could explain a lot. I just still have an odd gut feeling here, and I'm trying to figure it out.

 

[Matunas]

So right now we are looking at likely either a Medi lynch or ---. I will say with how everything has gone so far on D2 I'm still okay with --- but I would be willing to switch my vote to Medi if it comes down to that.

As far as Rockin goes, right now I'm seeing a guy who has skimmed a lot of the reading and is now partially active. I still think based on how the votes went he is town.

Strong Badam I haven't really felt like I needed to post a direct list, as I've stated in my posts how I feel about people. The only person I really haven't on lately is Werekill and I still find his behavior very town, but is someone I am trying to keep watch of closely.

Matunas is my other scum lean. They've been fairly opportunistic throughout the entire game thus far such as changing their votes back and forth between TewnLeenk & Rockin Day 1. They were the last one to vote for <Pi and the first to jump onto voting for me. Their post #206 also strikes me as leaving a door open for <Pi to try and defend himself and downplaying potentially being the hammer vote. They were also apart of both <Pi's town leanings along with Pythag & myself on #153 & #190. Their recent statement regarding Pythag's death as random but also that Mediocre might have planned to associate themselves with their NK strikes me as weird.

I've explained my votes on both Tewn and Rockin. With Tewn this was a his first game and I wanted to gauge how he would respond. With Rockin he was my biggest question at that point so I did the same. I'm a firm believer in that votes are a tool, so I try to use them in that way. I think one of the problems with forum mafia is that you never know for sure when people will be around or active. In my post 206 that is what I was worried about. If I put <pi in hammer range early, the day could be ended early and we lose out on that period of time. I was going to be active and online all day, so I could vote whenever. I got nothing when it comes to <pi's lists, except he put the most active people as scum. As far as Pythag's death as "random" I said "semi-random" and that's cause to me it still is. I don't know the reasoning, just what I can see it might have been. Someone associating themselves with a known townie to gain credibility seems like a scum tactic to me.

I do think <pi asking you to explain your claim is one of the more convincing things against you being scum. I have viewed the whole thing as a false roleclaim that went sideways quickly and in the end all it did was muddle the waters and lead to confusion. Combined with your lack of hard stances on people, avoiding questions, and the few other posts that I have pointed out in the past have lead me to keep my vote on you for those exact reasons.

I'm not against changing it if it comes down to that, but I have kept my vote on you today to see if I could get some answers and stances from you.

 

[Mediocre]

I'm doing a selective read through some of the posts from the less vocal players. I don't have unlimited time right now, so it will almost definitely stop before I get through everyone. I'll pick it up again when I can.

With regards to my reads in general, I doubt I'm going to get a totally firm read on anyone. I guess people are sick of my soft reads (and think they're scummy), but from what I remember of my old mafia play, me getting hard reads on a player was rare. I'm not going to force any "hard" reads from myself.

I don't really have a super in depth explanation for it. It's just something I noticed that was slightly off and against the flow of the game. Same thing with <pi being hesitant for voting right out of the gate.

I haven't decided my vote yet, and I'm not saying that these things are directly affecting what I do right now, but they're just things I've noticed. As a noob loser, I'm mostly doing my observing right now and getting a feel for how things are going. But I won't be afraid to throw out a vote.

Also, I guess using the term "callout" was a little mean sounding, so my apologies for that. I mostly meant it was something that stood out to me immediately.

This is Tewn's first post with any real content to it, and even here Tewn is extremely noncommittal, in a similar way to how I've been noncommittal this game. A little later on, Tewn mentions how much difficulty he's having making reads, which I really sympathize with (unsurprisingly). I guess this could be a scum tactic, but I'm inclined to believe that Tewn is just being upfront here.

Alright here's my reads:

Scumbos:

<pi: Some of the things you've been saying has seemed weird to me. Talking about past mafia games seems weird too. The "joke" vote doesn't help either.

Rockin: I almost want to put you as a Nullo, but I keep thinking of back when you wanted the active people to take a step back, and that's always stood out to me.


Nullos:

Werekill: You're acting pretty aggressively with the way you're addressing people, but I see it as you trying to get discussion started, which I can dig.

Matunas: Your early vote on me caught me off guard, but once again I see it more as you trying to get things rolling and getting reactions out of a new player, which again I dig.


Townos:

Everyone else

After facing a bit of pressure, particularly from Tuna, Tewn posts a read list. Tewn's read list itself is a little weird, with Town-lean seeming to be the default category. But I don't really think it's scummy weirdness. He does have <pi listed as apparently the most scummy player.

So far I've found this first day to be a weird one, but also a good learning experience. Accusations are being thrown out without much to go off of, but I guess that's just the way it goes when we don't really have much to work with. Right now I'm more focusing on people who are saying things that seem off/defensive to me. I generally agree with a lot of the reads people have posted so far based off of what we know.

I will say that <pi is standing out to me big time. The general defensiveness and the joke/not joke vote has kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

VOTE: <pi

Tewn makes what seems to me like a very reasonable post, although he's still having some difficulty. Also, he winds up being the second person to vote for <pi, after SB but before Werekill.

I'm not 100% he's town, but the more I read the more I feel like Tewn is a town.

One thing that stands out to me is Mediocre being very against a <pi lynch. Now that we know the powerful role that <pi had, it's just something I keep thinking about.

Early D2 Tewn notes my hesitancy with regards to the <pi lynch. Not a good observation for me personally, and Tewn initially somewhat mischaracterizes my stance, but to me it seems in line with what a town Tewn might do.

Mediocre's post #301 helped alleviate some of the concerns I had with them earlier on in day 2.

Right now I'm leaning towards --- but I don't want to hammer them just yet until I hear more. I really don't understand their game plan.



Now I have to get back to playing Animal Crossing: New Leaf on my Nintendo 3DS.

These Reggie avatars are throwing me off. I love it.

So I'm still leaning slightly towards --- because I just don't know what they're doing. I was originally pretty set and ready to vote for them but after reading some of the arguments about the gambit or whatever, I'm kinda backing off a bit. I'm still reading them as scum but it's not as severe as it was yesterday.

Mediocre's been a roller coaster for me. I was initially suspicious of them because of the whole <pi thing, but after their post #301 I was going to back off a bit. BUT THEN Werekill came in and dropped that #321 heat on us and I've been mulling it over for a while now. Now I'm back to reading scum on Mediocre.

I firmly believe that my vote will go to one of these two players, but right now I'm not sure who. They're the only two in the game that I'm getting real scum vibes on right now. I guess it'll come down to what they say coming up to the end of Day 2.

Between these two posts, Tewn goes back and forth on me. Since I feel like Tewn is town, I think it's probably genuine, but that said I have seen this kind of "go where the wind blows" attitude from scum players in previous mafia games.

Right now, I have Tewn as a moderate town read.

And now I actually have **** to do, so I guess I'm done for the moment. I thought I'd be able to cover more than one player in this post, but so it goes. I'll hopefully be able to cover at least 1-2 other players later today, although it might be pretty late depending on work and post-work D&D. So I'll see how things go.

 

[Rockin]

Do you have any additional reads or insights? Or is that it?

Before that post, I didn't, but after seeing SB's post, I got some.

Rockin There was so much discussion of the setup throughout the game. Even the opening posts were talking about 3v6 (<Pi bull****ting while knowing his scumbuddy) and 2v7 format as well as the 2d3 link in the OP. Following that, <Pi's flailing in #258 referred to it.
My own post extremely early into Day 2 (#264) directly posts the two possible setups that this game has based on the two role flips.
---'s behavior D1 (who you indicate as scummy specifically for his role breadcrumbing stuff) also brought upon a lot of discussion on the possible setup.
I'm just so confused how you came to the conclusion that you were the only Vanilla Townie?
Following that, how have you concluded that Mediocre 's behavior is not scummy (per your #348)? Have you thoroughly read through his posts? Or the posts of myself, Werekill, Matunas, and TewnLeenk who have all concluded that he is scummy? If you do still do not feel Mediocre is scummy, do you have counterpoints to bring to the table to these 4 players who believe he is?

Because of the sample roles. All 9 of them (when we had 9 players at the start of the game).

I mention this before in D1, but I am a believer of someone focusing on what we have on the table, as oppose to figuring out the gamemaster's setup (Tom) or discussing possible WIFOM. I dislike both of these cause they can be a waste of time, and it may blow up in our face later on. That's why, from game start to my claim, I was under the impression we had 1 vanilla townie, 3 mafias, and 5 townie power roles. Does the setup sound broken/unbalanced af? yes, but I'm not one to question the gamemaster, especially from a respected individual who's made plenty of games in the past as opposed to a certain individual who made a Rogue PR who thought he could balance it. :C

This is why I was mostly against talking about possible setups, cause of the thing of what I saw and presented to us were right there. Didn't help that

Our 'napolitian' breadcrumbed what looked to be his role D1

Our mafia was a rolecop

Our townie was a tracker

When I saw that vanilla claim, I had to attack it, cause I am sure I'm the only one.

Following the medi one, it's similiar to my early thoughts on you, SB. This is a problem, however. I won't say johns, but it's been years since I last played mafia, and people's posting styles are froggy at best. That's why I've been trying to approach things at face value as best as I can. Medi, however, is one of those rare few I can get a picture idea of how he plays. Yet, I want to stay away from giving him credit on whether he's town or scum, cause I have little idea and I won't want to give medi room to work with (if he is scum, I mean).

Just like how I was angry on werekill responding to some of the allegations to --- and his breadcrumb, and how he responded to them.

This is why I'm very hesitant on lynching medi. None of the plays I've seen scream scum, and none of the things I see are townie either. He just looks very null in my eyes, and I would hate to lynch someone who's in a similar boat as me (cause apparantly, all my play has been weird at most. Not scummy, just weird).

oh and about why I didn't give a lean list. I like to keep my picks on town and scum cut and dry. I only have scum lists, while everyone else have been null. Like medi, there's no one else in here that screams town in my eyes, not even Strong Bad.

 

[Rockin]

oh, there's been some posts. i'll go read this up. i also have like 1 hrs worth of free time before I go to work, and I won't be back in time for the deadline.

 

[Mediocre]

Oh wow. I somehow really misread the deadline. Thanks to Rockin for mentioning that it's close.

Unfortunately I still don't have a strong scum read on anyone, and an unlikely to find one before the deadline.

I guess the only two players I don't have at least town leans on are --- and Tuna, but I don't feel confident about either one of them. Of the two I'd prefer a --- lynch, because as strange as the Neapolitan claim would have been for scum to make, --- has mentioned that they played in a rather different style of game then is being played here. Plus, it's a strange move as either town or scum.

I feel like ---'s lynch would have the highest chance of catching scum, and failing that would provide the town with the most information for D3.

 

[TewnLeenk]

Sorry everybody, pretty busy day today (half working, half trying to get Avengers tickets)

Mediocre's write up on me was actually pretty in-depth. Wasn't really expecting that. Honestly after reading that whole thing I think it gives me less of a scummy view of Mediocre. Now I can kind of see how they're thinking in regards to the game. They pointed out a few things about me that definitely make sense and honestly it makes me feel a little more confident knowing how they're thinking and how it's similar to my thinking as well.

Just to clarify:

Early D2 Tewn notes my hesitancy with regards to the <pi lynch. Not a good observation for me personally, and Tewn initially somewhat mischaracterizes my stance, but to me it seems in line with what a town Tewn might do.

This was just he first thing that I could go off of early on at the start of a new day. The mischaracterization might be from lack of information at the time.

Right now I'm not getting super huge scum vibes from anyone here anymore, despite my previous reads list. I'm more inclined to vote for --- because of how weird their whole game plan is. The slow trickle of "hints" to their role and just overall tone of their messages is making me feel a little bit off in comparison to the res of the players in this game. Also they keep bringing up Night PMs, which I'm not sure is intentional or not, but it's something I've kept my eyes on.

 

[Lore]

Before that post, I didn't, but after seeing SB's post, I got some.



Because of the sample roles. All 9 of them (when we had 9 players at the start of the game).

I mention this before in D1, but I am a believer of someone focusing on what we have on the table, as oppose to figuring out the gamemaster's setup (Tom) or discussing possible WIFOM. I dislike both of these cause they can be a waste of time, and it may blow up in our face later on. That's why, from game start to my claim, I was under the impression we had 1 vanilla townie, 3 mafias, and 5 townie power roles. Does the setup sound broken/unbalanced af? yes, but I'm not one to question the gamemaster, especially from a respected individual who's made plenty of games in the past as opposed to a certain individual who made a Rogue PR who thought he could balance it. :C

This is why I was mostly against talking about possible setups, cause of the thing of what I saw and presented to us were right there. Didn't help that

Our 'napolitian' breadcrumbed what looked to be his role D1

Our mafia was a rolecop

Our townie was a tracker

When I saw that vanilla claim, I had to attack it, cause I am sure I'm the only one.

Following the medi one, it's similiar to my early thoughts on you, SB. This is a problem, however. I won't say johns, but it's been years since I last played mafia, and people's posting styles are froggy at best. That's why I've been trying to approach things at face value as best as I can. Medi, however, is one of those rare few I can get a picture idea of how he plays. Yet, I want to stay away from giving him credit on whether he's town or scum, cause I have little idea and I won't want to give medi room to work with (if he is scum, I mean).

Just like how I was angry on werekill responding to some of the allegations to --- and his breadcrumb, and how he responded to them.

This is why I'm very hesitant on lynching medi. None of the plays I've seen scream scum, and none of the things I see are townie either. He just looks very null in my eyes, and I would hate to lynch someone who's in a similar boat as me (cause apparantly, all my play has been weird at most. Not scummy, just weird).

oh and about why I didn't give a lean list. I like to keep my picks on town and scum cut and dry. I only have scum lists, while everyone else have been null. Like medi, there's no one else in here that screams town in my eyes, not even Strong Bad.

Please tell me that you don't still believe that you are the only vanilla. I can't tell from your use of tense here, saying "I am sure I'm the only one."

 

[Rockin]

Please tell me that you don't still believe that you are the only vanilla. I can't tell from your use of tense here, saying "I am sure I'm the only one."

No, I don't (least not as much. still somewhat holding onto it, but it's not as big of a factor anymore). However, a lynch on either you or --- will still net me some information.

 

[Mediocre]

Rockin, the setup is actually pretty important and can be determined. SB lays out the possible setups in this quote:

Losing one of our power roles sucks but we hit Mafia's power role and know that there are only 2 possible setups now.

B1: Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop vs. Town Cop, Town Tracker, 5x Town Vanilla
B2: Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop vs. Town Jailkeeper, Town Tracker, 5x Town Vanilla

B3 doesn't have a Town Tracker, so it's only these. We have either a Cop or a Jailkeeper.

 

[Lore]

Sorry everybody, pretty busy day today (half working, half trying to get Avengers tickets)

Mediocre's write up on me was actually pretty in-depth. Wasn't really expecting that. Honestly after reading that whole thing I think it gives me less of a scummy view of Mediocre. Now I can kind of see how they're thinking in regards to the game. They pointed out a few things about me that definitely make sense and honestly it makes me feel a little more confident knowing how they're thinking and how it's similar to my thinking as well.

Just to clarify:


This was just he first thing that I could go off of early on at the start of a new day. The mischaracterization might be from lack of information at the time.

Right now I'm not getting super huge scum vibes from anyone here anymore, despite my previous reads list. I'm more inclined to vote for --- because of how weird their whole game plan is. The slow trickle of "hints" to their role and just overall tone of their messages is making me feel a little bit off in comparison to the res of the players in this game. Also they keep bringing up Night PMs, which I'm not sure is intentional or not, but it's something I've kept my eyes on.

I'd like to point out something from my perspective, since I currently still see Medi as scum.

Try to keep in mind that scum can and will buddy up to players. His post was more or less talking about how he sympathizes with your playstyle, and it included both praise for you and calling you his main town read.

For me as someone reading him as scum, this reeks of Scum buddying up to a new player who had a scum lean on himself. It also solidifies my town read on you more, from this standpoint. I have Medi as a hard scum read.

To be fair to Medi, let's also look at it from the perspective of someone reading Medi as town. It just feels like a player trying to force a committed read while also having sympathy towards a newbie. This is fine.

Those are the two perspectives here, and I go towards the Medi As Sucm perspective. You choose what you'd like there.


About to make a big post on --- btw, after I post something about Rockin since he is still online. Stay tuned, it would have been in this post, but Rockin is online for only a short bit.

 

[Lore]

No, I don't (least not as much. still somewhat holding onto it, but it's not as big of a factor anymore). However, a lynch on either you or --- will still net me some information.

What information exactly does a lynch on me give you? You're consistently vague on this point, while also repeating this stance like clockwork. You've said "I'd rather lynch werekill but ____ is ok" since nearly the start of the game.

Is it related to this quote from you: "Just like how I was angry on werekill responding to some of the allegations to --- and his breadcrumb, and how he responded to them. " ?

You make some long posts without much substance on your actual reads, refusing to even make a lean list. I don't understand your perspective here.


On the game setup: We have it set in stone what the setup is. It's in the wiki. The only mystery is what role between Cop and Jailkeeper (iirc) we have, after those other two flips.

Tom would not do something screwy and lie to us on that front, and if you believe otherwise, I'd legitimately rather you replace out than continue having that perspective. I mean zero offense here. Playing from the stance of not trusting the game-runner is actively harmful to any meaningful discussion, and if you want to have that viewpoint, you aren't playing the same game as any of us, no matter what your role is.

 

[Lore]

On ---, and I will quote Tewn for context:

Right now I'm not getting super huge scum vibes from anyone here anymore, despite my previous reads list. I'm more inclined to vote for --- because of how weird their whole game plan is. The slow trickle of "hints" to their role and just overall tone of their messages is making me feel a little bit off in comparison to the res of the players in this game. Also they keep bringing up Night PMs, which I'm not sure is intentional or not, but it's something I've kept my eyes on.

--- is not being active, and when they are, they haven't given solid and clear content until recently. If that's your reasoning for voting, go ahead. I have no objections other than my town read on them.

But if your vote is due to their claim, I'm 100% against it.

Let's really dive into their claim. They laid down hints (misleadingly making them point towards Neapolitan through the use of positive/negative context), made the claim incredibly early, and they stated their intent to use Night PMs.

The Night PMs were probably going to be "btw I'm Vanilla, I just wanted to draw fire towards me to bait scum" or something similar, and I expect that regardless of ---'s role, that aspect of the gambit would have remained the same. It's the only Night PM scenario that makes sense to me. Night PMs by themselves aren't fishy.

So I want to ask this of everyone voting for --- due to their gambit. Please lay out to me, clearly and concisely, the benefit Scum gains from the gambit. It was massively early, and it involved a role (neapolitan) that we now know for a fact was not a safe claim for Scum. The only world where it was a guaranteed safe claim? Goon/goon. <pi flipped rolecop, so we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was not a safe claim.

So what Scum would claim that early with an unsafe claim? And all to do what? Draw a potential cop's investigation towards them? Draw a doctor? Make themselves a laser target for a town lynch? The doctor is the only beneficial outcome there, and the other two are massively negative towards Scum.


I still 100% read it as a bad Town gambit, and I am strictly against anyone voting for them solely because of it. If you want to vote for them for other reasons, sure. That's your call. But I ask you to rethink your vote if it's based mostly on the gambit.

 

[Rockin]

Tom would not do something screwy and lie to us on that front, and if you believe otherwise, I'd legitimately rather you replace out than continue having that perspective. I mean zero offense here. Playing from the stance of not trusting the game-runner is actively harmful to any meaningful discussion, and if you want to have that viewpoint, you aren't playing the same game as any of us, no matter what your role is.

I was under the impression we had 1 vanilla townie, 3 mafias, and 5 townie power roles. Does the setup sound broken/unbalanced af? yes, but I'm not one to question the gamemaster, especially from a respected individual who's made plenty of games in the past

What, at all, gave the impression that I thought he was lying to us on that front?

 

[Mediocre]

Try to keep in mind that scum can and will buddy up to players. His post was more or less talking about how he sympathizes with your playstyle, and it included both praise for you and calling you his main town read.

My town read on you is actually stronger than my town read on Tewn. But yeah, Tewn is my second strongest town read.

 

[Lore]

Meanwhile Medi has barely made any defined reads, has had fishy behavior, had extremely strange actions revolving around his Pythag town read, and I still have him as a firm scum read.

I 100% believe that Medi is the better lynch over ---, and that is where my vote will remain.

 

[Strong Badam]

I do agree with Werekill that Rockin's understanding of the game setup is critical to meaningful discussion. I would like confirmation from Rockin that he is aware of the only two possible setups based on the role flips thus far. I'm not sure about replacing out, but at the very least I find it hard to take much if any of Rockin's argumentation at face value if he has not acknowledged the rules of the game. His contributions throughout D2 are entirely called into question.

Mediocre can you make a full scumread list contained within one post, please? Preferably with some amount of reasonings.

 

[Strong Badam]

To clarify, I want confirmation from Rockin about the setup and a re-statement of his reads in that context. Based on his posts from yesterday, his scumread on --- could in part be due to the Vanilla Townie roleclaim and operating under the assumption that there is only one Vanilla Townie.

 

[Rockin]

To clarify, I want confirmation from Rockin about the setup and a re-statement of his reads in that context. Based on his posts from yesterday, his scumread on --- could in part be due to the Vanilla Townie roleclaim and operating under the assumption that there is only one Vanilla Townie.

Fine, i'll take it into consideration of the two possible setups.

 

[Lore]

What, at all, gave the impression that I thought he was lying to us on that front?

Because you said that you still aren't sure of the setup, after everyone else has laid it out to you how it is a confirmed setup?

Look, after a quick reread of your post, I see that there was some confusion on your end re: the setup due to the listing of the sample roles. Ok, cool. I'm just not sure why you still have any doubts that the setup is what it is.

If you understand it now, that's great, and I will have no further issue. We just need to settle this down now before the game moves further.

The only unknown is the last Town PR. Otherwise, all players are Vanilla Town plus 1 Mafia Good, as per the wiki.

My town read on you is actually stronger than my town read on Tewn. But yeah, Tewn is my second strongest town read.

I also tried to be fair to you in my post towards Tewn, listing the perspective of someone reading you as Town. Please don't take my post towards Tewn as a straight ticket condemnation of your action.

You know how you called my points yesterday "only scum evidence because read [you, Medi] as scum already"? I still don't feel that is the case for my earlier points, but I'll 100% say that it is the case with the post to Tewn. It's why I laid it out the way that I did.

I do agree with Werekill that Rockin's understanding of the game setup is critical to meaningful discussion. I would like confirmation from Rockin that he is aware of the only two possible setups based on the role flips thus far. I'm not sure about replacing out, but at the very least I find it hard to take much if any of Rockin's argumentation at face value if he has not acknowledged the rules of the game. His contributions throughout D2 are entirely called into question.

Mediocre can you make a full scumread list contained within one post, please? Preferably with some amount of reasonings.

I will say that I only brought up the replacement to show how meaningful this understanding is. It's critical to the game. As long as he understands the setup, all is well.

 

[Rockin]

Which means I guess I can put away the --- vote then.

Unvote

Guess I won't be voting for anyone today =/

 

[Lore]

^my last posts had a bunch of weird italics, not sure why.

 

[Rockin]

Because you said that you still aren't sure of the setup, after everyone else has laid it out to you how it is a confirmed setup?

Look, after a quick reread of your post, I see that there was some confusion on your end re: the setup due to the listing of the sample roles. Ok, cool. I'm just not sure why you still have any doubts that the setup is what it is.

If you understand it now, that's great, and I will have no further issue. We just need to settle this down now before the game moves further.

Only because of how --- breadcrumbed his role. It just seems suspect, and I don't like it. One could say it's townie gambit (for what he's risking, I have no idea), but still find it to be scum since pi wasted no time in trying to fake claim.

but whatever, i'll believe in the two possible setups for now.

 

[Lore]

Which means I guess I can put away the --- vote then.

Unvote

Guess I won't be voting for anyone today =/

You said that you have Medi as not scum or town, right? Does this stance still remain?

 

[Lore]

Only because of how --- breadcrumbed his role. It just seems suspect, and I don't like it. One could say it's townie gambit (for what he's risking, I have no idea), but still find it to be scum since pi wasted no time in trying to fake claim.

but whatever, i'll believe in the two possible setups for now.

I'm glad to hear that we have the setup confusion settled. It would have directly hurt future discussions, to put it mildly.

Why do you draw a connection between <pi's fake claim in response to a lynch and ---'s claim gambit earlier on? What relation do you see, so that I can understand your perspective?

 

[Mediocre]

Mediocre can you make a full scumread list contained within one post, please? Preferably with some amount of reasonings.

I'm going to be quick about it, because I really do have some **** I need to get done.

Werekill - Strong town due to his (IMO) overfocus on me D2, when --- presented an easy lynch target.
Tewn - Moderate town for reasons I've summarized
Rockin - Slight town due to WK's point about how both scum players wouldn't present the same new point at the same time
SB - Slight town due to general play and being suspicious of <pi pretty early on.
Matunas - Null pending a skim that's unfortunately not going to happen before the Day ends. I have a moderately positive impression of Tuna's play so far, but that's tempered by the fact that I can't read *everyone* as town, and the fact that he's stayed relatively in the background so far.
--- - Slight scum lean, just because his play was strange and I feel like he didn't initially fully understand the consequences of his gambit, and wouldn't have either as scum or town.

Now I really do have to get some work done. I'll 100% be back before the deadline.

 

[Mediocre]

Just wanted to make clear to Werekill, I absolutely have no hard feelings about anything that's gone down in this game so far.

 

[Strong Badam]

Mediocre do you plan to vote today?

 

[Strong Badam]

Same goes for ---
Do you plan to vote and if so for who? Your post #360 indicates Mediocre or Matunas.

 

[Lore]

Just wanted to make clear to Werekill, I absolutely have no hard feelings about anything that's gone down in this game so far.

Same to you, it's just how the game goes down. My scum read naturally doesn't extend out of this game to you as a person, I promise.

 

[Strong Badam]

Mediocre do you plan to vote today?

OK I see in #386 that you plan to return before the deadline (which by my watch is in less than 3 hours). Based on Medi's scumlean list it seems like he wants to vote for ---.

 

[Tom]

Vote Count:
--- (1): Matunas
Mediocre (1): Werekill
Not voting (5): TewnLeenk, ---, Mediocre, Strong Bad, Rockin

Day 2 will end Tuesday, April 2 at 5:30 pm Central or when a player reaches 4/7 votes.

 

[Matunas]

Unvote: ---
Vote: Mediocre

I have been keeping my vote on --- all day with the hope that it would provide information and pressure him to participate more. It has. He is also one of my scummier reads right now. After Werekill's 373 and --- posting more clarification I am more comfortable moving off of him for now. When the day started my vote was heavily based off of the claim in general, with a few other indicators of scumminess. Now those other indicators are still there, but the role thing was definitely influencing my push and following Werekill's post, I will change my vote.

With the day coming to a close, and everything that has happened lately I am okay moving for a Medi lynch today. His recent post about Tewn 363, is very weird, which was summed up by Werekill 371 and in general I think a lot of what has been said against him is valid.

 

[Lore]

Just a heads up, after 5 EST today I have to drive for an hour and a half. So I won't be here for deadline.

In the next hour, I'll stay decently active. If anyone has questions or discussions for me before deadline, now is the time.

 

[Strong Badam]

Yeah, I'm cool with a Mediocre lynch today. Like in my previous posts, rn there are 3 players that feel fairly scummy, and it's really a tossup between them. I don't find ---'s posts during D2 to be very compelling and I'm really onboard with Werekill's read of the roleclaim stuff but --- is certainly not more scummy than Mediocre. It's possible to chalk up --- and Rockin's behavior as "weird" instead of "scum." The same can be said for Medi but not to the same degree IMO.

I'll hold off on dropping my vote for a bit since it would put Medi in hammer range but I do plan to vote for him.

 

[Strong Badam]

I don't find ---'s posts during D2 to be very compelling and I'm really onboard with Werekill's read of the roleclaim stuff

Correction: I am not onboard with Werekill's read here.

 

[Lore]

Correction: I am not onboard with Werekill's read here.

And that's fair, but I still stand by my read on the --- roleclaim. I just don't see a benefit for Scum to have done it, unless you see one that I've missed.

 

[Strong Badam]

Not all scum behavior can be determined as "beneficial." If it was, they wouldn't blend in very often, would they? But I digress, it's a bit of a WIFOM situation trying to read that. I don't really see any value in trying to convince you if you haven't been already.

 

[TewnLeenk]

Right now I feel like I've been swayed by Lore 's post #371. Seems weird that I was singled out and given a massive post, knowing that I'm new and probably one of the weaker players in this game. Like the post said, Mediocre's post about me didn't really say much except that they understands my play style. Didn't seem like they had anything against me. The more I think about it the weirder it is. Especially after having been given a fresh perspective on it by a different player.

Most probably will be voting Mediocre soon. Waiting to see if any other developments happen.

 

[Lore]

Not all scum behavior can be determined as "beneficial." If it was, they wouldn't blend in very often, would they? But I digress, it's a bit of a WIFOM situation trying to read that. I don't really see any value in trying to convince you if you haven't been already.

Yeah that's definitely diving into WIFOM lol.