Tomafia 4: Game Over - Mafia Wins!

[---]

Have been up for 19 hours now, so this will be my last post of the phase.

I've explained my votes on both Tewn and Rockin. With Tewn this was a his first game and I wanted to gauge how he would respond. With Rockin he was my biggest question at that point so I did the same. I'm a firm believer in that votes are a tool, so I try to use them in that way. I think one of the problems with forum mafia is that you never know for sure when people will be around or active. In my post 206 that is what I was worried about. If I put <pi in hammer range early, the day could be ended early and we lose out on that period of time. I was going to be active and online all day, so I could vote whenever. I got nothing when it comes to <pi's lists, except he put the most active people as scum. As far as Pythag's death as "random" I said "semi-random" and that's cause to me it still is. I don't know the reasoning, just what I can see it might have been. Someone associating themselves with a known townie to gain credibility seems like a scum tactic to me.

Votes are definitely tools, so I don't disagree with you there. My first vote on Mediocre was a poke.

All of the scum reads they listed were all people, who as it turned out, rightfully voted against him. So I question why they were firm in pressing the three of us as town reads at two separate points. Granted they didn't give reads on TewnLeenk or Mediocre, but it's also a good strategy to mix their partner in with a two townies. Your 206 post makes me lean more towards the latter.

Whoever survives into Night 2, given <Pi's reads, I would insist the town cop/jailkeeper makes whoever survives between Mediocre, Matunas, and myself their priority (50/50 basically).

I don't completely disagree with the RNG argument, as I'm not familiar with Pythag's posting/playstyles. Do you think there are any other possible strategies beyond attempting to associate with a dead townie? As Mediocre argued, it would be a slight misplay to have gone after Pythag after they rea

I do think <pi asking you to explain your claim is one of the more convincing things against you being scum. I have viewed the whole thing as a false roleclaim that went sideways quickly and in the end all it did was muddle the waters and lead to confusion. Combined with your lack of hard stances on people, avoiding questions, and the few other posts that I have pointed out in the past have lead me to keep my vote on you for those exact reasons.

I'm not against changing it if it comes down to that, but I have kept my vote on you today to see if I could get some answers and stances from you.

I have the feeling they were using me and going for a last ditch move as I had already put myself out in the open purposely. Except for Mediocre whom everyone, bar WK, had down as null for obvious reasons, I'm surprised you think I have a lack of hard stances thus far given my statements on Rockin, SB, and WK or does "lean" mean something different in your own words?

I still standby my overall strategy. Vanilla & Neapolitan were separate guesses reached by WK/SB. Night PMs are a place to barter for info, so breadcrumbing and saving a direct claim for private hands is a way to both show interest in town activities and have something to value to earn trust in later phases. Given <Pi's continued belief about me being the Neapolitan even after I soft pushed SB to correct themselves, your vote I think states you think I'm more likely to be a nonsensical scum player than a townie (or a bad townie in WK's view >_>).

Same goes for ---
Do you plan to vote and if so for who? Your post #360 indicates Mediocre or Matunas.

Both are 50/50 in my mind. One hasn't contributed, the other has some questionable associations and timings.

Vote: Mediocre

I still have a few questions for Matunas, and I feel they're more willing to cooperate. Am also willing to defer to the reasons WK outlined. The town still has a power role in play which I doubt Mediocre is given their indecisiveness. So feel comfortable letting things play out for now.

 

[Lore]

19 hours? Oof. That's rough.

 

[Strong Badam]

OK, I'll read ---'s post in a sec but just in case another individual hammers before I do, here are my notes from Day 1. They have all posts that involve votes on lessthanpi, all posts by Pi and Pythag, and all posts leading up to post #108. I'm sorry I didn't have time to complete them. Most of this was in a previous post though.

<π revealed to be Mafia Rolecop, so he will be listed as red in all posts.
Pythag revealed to be Town Tracker (Killed Night 1), so he will be listed as green in all posts.

Glossary of terms: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Commonly_Used_Abbreviations
AI, RVS, and WIFOM haven’t been explained in-thread already.

Spoiler: Day One

Tom Dies (#29)

Werekill #30
Nothing consequential.

Werekill #31
Nothing consequential.

Strong Bad #32
“Werekilled Tom” joke

<π #33
Mentions possibility of 3v6 being “unfair” and says 2v7 is much more reasonable.

Werekill #34
Quotes previous 3 posts. Asks about a 3rd party.

Werekill #35
Affirms no 3rd party.

Werekill #36
Werekill says there is a 2/3rd chance of one mafia power role. 2 scum. Compliments moderator.

Strong Bad #37
Mentions less than half of the players have posted. Says we need to start discussion or “Mafia won’t have opportunity to make mistakes”

Pythag #38
Nothing consequential, though you could interpret it as playing up his rust.

Strong Bad #39
Affirms 2d3 setup per mafiascum.net wiki, in response to previous queries

Strong Bad #40
Continues #39.

Mediocre #41
Has not played mafia game in years. States Day one is always the worst.

--- #42
Says he will be sure to send a ham to Tom’s widow as is customary. Is likely inconsequential.

Werekill #43
Quotes #41 and says Day 1 is annoying. Metagaming based on what he did last game on day one.

Werekill #44
Chatter about the setup.
Vote: ---

<π #45
Reaction to Werekill’s vote. Mentions that not all have posted. Slow down.

TewnLeenk #46
Nothing consequential.

--- #47
Reaction to being voted for. He says “I like chocolate better too”

Werekill #48
Sass response to #45, affirms RVS strategy as valid. Responds to #47 with “yup”

TewnLeenk #49
0-100 real quick

Pythag #50
Replies to #45 with “0 information on d1.”

Werekill #51
Replies to #49 suggesting Tewn votes on --- as well. “The threat of lynch has to be real for it to have any meaning”

Werekill #52
Wagon not a train.

<π #53
Everyone hasn’t introduced themselves yet.

Werekill #54
Replies to #53: Active discussion > intro fluff. Tags Tom asking if hammer is a thing. (It is)


Strong Bad #55
Asks same question as Werekill.
says <π is inexperienced, scum, or both. Says discussing things is critical for town on D1. As game state changes, check D1 discussion with context of role reveals. Pro-town should discuss things rather than delay things. Votes at this time are likely to give Town information and unlikely to result in a lynch.

Strong Bad #56
Wants to hear from CK [sic: it’s Mediocre] and Rockin. Non-contributors should start joining. Mentions ---’s reply to be a nonstarter, but claims that to not be AI.

Strong Bad #57
Vote: --- but claims no read on him

Werekill #58
Replies to #55 “leaning toward hesitancy, since not everyone has posted.” Claims <π’s point as invalid.
Notes <π behavior for the future.

Werekill #59
Corrects #56 that CK was replaced by Mediocre.

Replies to #57 vote for --- positively.

Strong Bad #60
Thanks Werekill for correction.
Says he wants to call out hesitancy out the gate early since he doesn’t know how they play. Hesitancy/lurking/inactivity benefits scum too much. Mentions times where people will be unable to post (work, but does not mention sleep). Mentions BRoomer posting activity (meta).

Werekill #61
Says most people have posted except Rockin/Medi.
States he doesn’t care about meta. Too easily misleading.
Says <π’s behavior could be scummy based on future posts.

Pythag #62
Quotes #61 3rd line. If <π is inexperienced, his behavior is typical scum traps? Hesitancy, invalid points, etc..
Asks Werekill at what point <π looks scummier than --- to him.

Pythag #63
Claims he quoted the wrong thing. Did he mean #58?

--- #64
Replies to Strong Bad #56 stating that Strong Bad likes strawberry.

Pythag #65
Quotes --- #64 saying that it’s the strongest accusation ever seen. Probably a joke.

Werekill #66
Responds to #62 saying it’s true. Says --- wagon got the ball rolling as intended.
Unvote, Vote: <π
Asks <π why he was hesitant. Most people had posted.

Tom #67
Affirms hammer is a thing. Vote count Strong Bad has a vote on ---, while Werekill has a vote on <π. No one else has voted yet.

Strong Bad #68
Replies to Pythag #62 saying that <π looks scummier than --- but admits it’s not a good read atm (most haven’t voted, some players posting aren’t saying anything of substance). If <π participates more he starts seeming less scummy. Pressure him to talk which is good for town regardless of alignment. Calls out Rockin, Matunas, TewnLeenk as people who have posted but nothing of substance as possibly scum. Demands people discuss.

Werekill #69
Quotes #68. This is why he moved his vote to <π; moved to someone with questions to answer rather than --- who has been shrugging votes off since they aren’t substantial.

Gives inactive people a pass for today, but afterward claims that it’s on.

<π #70
Quotes Pythag #62, Werekill #58, and Strong Bad #60
Asks why Hesitancy is scum behavior. Curious
Claims rushing to vote people off seems like a waste.
Claims that there’s a 7/9 chance of hitting town. Guarantees mafia won’t get voted out day one [sic].

Rockin #71
Posts to avoid inactivity prod. Claims he will read up.

Strong Bad #72
Quotes <π #70 and asks if <π thinks we shouldn’t lynch anyone day one.
Werekill #73
Quotes <π #70 and asks how he suggests we do anything day one.
Resistance to a no-lynch

<π #74
Quotes Werekill #69 and Strong Bad #60 (bolding and underlining BRoomer posting activity) and begins meta rant about how he won a Mafia game as mafia. Invites others to do the same.

<π #75
Quotes Strong Bad #72 and Werekill #73 and says 2/9 to hit is better than 0.

Werekill #76
Re-affirms his stance against meta.
Asks why <π brought up a game where he played as mafia in detail.

Werekill #77
Quotes #74 and #75 from <π and asks why he brought up the 7/9 chance to hit town.

Strong Bad #78
Agree with Werekill about meta
Tag <π, calls him about about meta. Says it’s weird to do that in response to a post he’s already replied to.
Hesitancy isn’t scummy. Scum/town behavior D1 is hard bc of playstyle. Let’s not **** around, hammer unlikely. Stop introducing friction to common means of info gathering.

Rockin #79
Says he sees WIFOM at metagaming and baseless votes.
Quotes Werekill #34, discussion about the format.
Quotes Strong Bad #55. Claims discussion with no base can lead to mislynches. Take as much time as possible.
Calls Strong Bad rude for calling <π inexperienced. Claims that every townie, vet or not, is valued.
Quotes --- #64 and claims little value in the bandwagon. Friction to RVS

Werekill #80
Asks Rockin how else he suggests we get info than RVS

<π #81
[seems in response to Werekill #77] Claims he was bragging. Says he talks about that game every time mafia is brought up (meta)

Werekill #82
^Weird flex

TewnLeenk #83
He likes how things are getting to the point.

<π #84
Claims his life is average (saying Werekill’s name). Claims thread was over 10 years ago and can’t find it (meta)

Rockin #85
Replies to #80, saying you can get info any way you want, he’s just going to take note of it and judge the intention.
Asks Strong Bad and Werekill to take a back seat. Claims we have a bit of time. Does not think Strong Bad is scummy, claims it a playstyle. No problem with Werekill but wouldn’t be against lynching him.
Edited post, given reason was to fix a typo of Strong Bad’s name.

<π #86
Vote: Rockin
Stated reason: Misspelled Strong Bad’s name and broke rules to edit the fix

Werekill #87
[Replying to Rockin #85 without quote] He’d rather not take a backseat.

Rockin #88
Quotes <π #86 apologizing for misreading the rule..
Quotes Werekill #87 clarifing that he is just asking Strong Bad and Werekill to sit back for now. He claims he wants the perspective of others.

Mediocre #89
Quotes sections of Strong Bad #37, #55, #60 and says he finds the wording interesting. To him, they “seem carefully worded to strongly delineate between SB and ‘scum’”
Asks Strong Bad if this is intentional.

Werekill #90
Asks Rockin why he finds Strong Bad to not by scummy but is fine with Werekill being lynched. Asks for a clarified read on himself and Strong Bad, what differentiates them, and what is read on <π is.

Mediocre #91
Nothing consequential.

Werekill #92
Nothing consequential.

Rockin #93
Quote Werekill #90. Says what he sees from Strong Bad is playstyle rather than scummy. He gets the feeling Strong Bad is looking for scum. Lynch lean on Werekill is gut instinct.

Nothing on <π. Wouldn’t want to lynch him.

Rockin #94
Nothing consequential.

Werekill #95
Clarification of prior question. Says Rockin’s reads are fair.

Strong Bad #96
Quote Rockin #79. Agrees that he was rude. Apologies to <π

Strong Bad #97
Nothing consequential.

Werekill #98
Asks Strong Bad for his reads.
Says his reads are null on everyone except <π, notes game-as-mafia braggin as weird. Asks for Strong Bad’s response to Mediocre’s points (#89)

Strong Bad #99
Quotes Mediocre #89. Admits 2nd quote was aggressive, rest are promoting discussion. Trying to make sure everyone knows discussion helps out town. Clarifies that he wants activity, not that he is equating inactivity to scum. Pressuring someone to be more active != calling them scummy.

Werekill #100
Says #99 is satisfactory.

Werekill #101
No read on #99.

Strong Bad #102
Read on <π lines up with what Werekill says in #98, gives reasons why. Claims weak scum reads on Pythag and --- but admits they aren’t substantiated.
No read on Werekill, if he had to say, then town.

Mediocre #103
Quote Strong Bad #99. Asks for more direct response to original question (#89)

Strong Bad #104
Direct reply to #103 and #89 with phrasing Mediocre used.

Werekill #105
Quotes Strong Bad #102 asking if there’s a particular reason for his Pythag and --- scum leans
Quotes Mediocre #103 admitting possible bias for Strong Bad since he agrees frequently. Meta mention of how he pushed scum on someone for a similar reason. Keeps Strong Bad as null.

Mediocre #106
Thanks Strong Bad for #104.
Says Werekill’s null read on Strong Bad is reasonable.

Pythag #107
Quote Rockin #79
Calls out friction to early votes.
Quote <π #70, says it’s ok to be hesitant if you’re putting someone at 3+ votes. Could be bandwagoned. Nothing else is alarming especially on Day 1. Claims <π wants discussion without action.

<π and Rockin mention the importance of information, but spurning the act of voting which creates info.

Pythag #108
Missed some stuff, reading now.

Pythag #124
Says he thinks cop choice should be to most active players.

<π #125
Claims he is overthinking. Says that Strong Bad and Mediocre felt off from the start. Says he didn’t like RVS. They were most active until Rockin showed up. Claims Strong Bad implied that he was going for a no vote.
Doesn’t like that Rockin was getting town vibes on Strong Bad [unsubstantiated]
Town vibes from no one.

<π #126
Corrects himself from #125 saying he meant Strong Bad and Werekill, not Strong Bad and Mediocre. Said that Rockin seemed most off after those two. No reads on Mediocre (specifically mentioned) or any other players.

<π #147
Mess of a post in formatting. Quotes Strong Bad #142 asking if he’s trying to bully people off of Rockin.
Quotes Strong Bad #129 saying NOW we need to be careful? Nah. Now he feels Rockin even more. Claims he’ll keep the joke vote. Said he felt that Strong Bad was trying to trick a new player into saying something dumb.
Claims that Strong Bad waited for Werekill to bring up the joke vote on Rockin before mentioned it.

<π #149
Something about post times, says he likes the idea of running scumlean lists.

<π #151
Quotes #147 and says he messed up his post, and that he’ll wait til he gets home to play.

<π #153
Reads:
Scum: Strong Bad, Rockin, Werekill
Scumish:TewnLeenk, Mediocre
Townish: Pythag, ---, Matunas

Pythag #169
Quote Replies to Matunas #143. Says that he doesn’t like D1 scumlean lists due to how little info there is.
Bad idea to not lynch.
Scummy: <π, Strong Bad, Rockin
Cites aggression. “I don’t think both of y’all are scum, but at this point I think one of you is.”
Mentions <π joke voting Rockin but also introducing friction to the early --- votes.
Cites Rockin’s earlier defensiveness in a similar way to <π’s.
Null: Mediocre (inactive), Matunas, --- (Chess!)
Town: Werekill. Activity, actually being helpful as opposed to trying to act helpful.
TewnLeenk is “obvtown”

Strong Bad #175
D1 Lynch Pool: <π, ---, Rockin. Read is n and <π are scumbuddies. Lots of reasoning, check post for exact wording so it’s not misrepresented.
Rockin may be scummy but not sure.
Mentions Matunas mistake earlier. Mediocre didn’t respond to ---’s vote. Werekill town read.

Strong Bad #176
Vote: <π

[1 vote for <π]

<π #187
Correctly formats #147 with no new information.

<π #188
Quote Matunas #185, Meta talk. Says he went into detail because he felt he had nothing to hide.

<π #189
Specifically says Rockin vote isn’t a joke anymore. Reads Strong Bad/Rockin or Rockin/Werekill as the scum pair.

<π #190
Suggests we all make scum pools and then vote out who is on everyone’s lists.
His reads:
Scum: Strong Bad, Rockin, Mediocre
Town: Pythag, ---, Matunas

TewnLeenk #192
Vote: <π
Reasons: Defensiveness and joke/not joke vote.
[2 votes for <π]

TewnLeenk #193
I am sick sorry.

Werekill #194
Rockin is less fishy than <π
Vote: <π
Still has a scum lean on Rockin.

[3 votes for <π]

Werekill #195
--- - Vanilla Town making a Gambit read.

Rockin #209
Quote Werekill #205 no need to look for WIFOM, look at lynch flip on D1 and night actions D2. Asks him to tone down sass.

Quote Matunas #206 saying trying to figure out roles is a waste of time. We should focus on facts and inconsistency of other players.

Replies to Strong Bad saying he’d prefer to lynch Werekill but he’s not opposed to PI kill.
Vote: <π

[<π is at hammer status]

<π #210
Says he keeps mixing up Mediocre and Werekill. Corrects #190: Scum list is Werekill, Strong Bad, Rockin.
Mediocre is null

Pythag #212
Town read on Mediocre
Likes <π and Strong Bad less and less. Reading stronger on <π
Quotes Rockin #209 and says he’s on Rockin’s side (as opposed to Werekill’s). Says Werekill seems scummy rn.

Pythag #239
Tag Matunas replying to #223
Quotes <π #147 as being disingenuous. Replies to Strong Bad saying he’s still trying to read his response; is on mobile. He said he’d look.

<π #242
Identifies that he may be the first to go. He’s at work, he’ll try later.

<π #243
Tag --- asking him to explain why he revealed.

Pythag #244
Tag Matunas
Formatting issues. Re-read Strong Bad posts and found nothing weird, he was mistaken by the 1v1.

<π #254
Claims town cop role. Believed --- was Neapolitan.

<π #255
We may be A1 setup. Gut says Strong Bad Werekill Rockin not sure about ---

Matunas #256
Vote: <π
[Hammer!]

Pythag #257
Is that the hammer?!

<π #258
Posts the possible setups in 2d3 from the mafia scum wiki.

Werekill #259
X to doubt meme

<π #260
x . x

 

[Lore]

Right now I feel like I've been swayed by Lore 's post #371. Seems weird that I was singled out and given a massive post, knowing that I'm new and probably one of the weaker players in this game. Like the post said, Mediocre's post about me didn't really say much except that they understands my play style. Didn't seem like they had anything against me. The more I think about it the weirder it is. Especially after having been given a fresh perspective on it by a different player.

Most probably will be voting Mediocre soon. Waiting to see if any other developments happen.

Just a heads up, but you seem to tend to swap positions after single convincing posts pretty often. Personally I'm chalking this up to newness, but it's definitely something you should watch out for, to keep from being misled.

Like it's definitely weird, but you have a cushy umbrella of being new. I'd love a Cop investigate on you to settle my gut feeling.

 

[Lore]

There's a ton in ---'s newest post, but I'm picking one bit in particular to highlight.

Whoever survives into Night 2, given <Pi's reads, I would insist the town cop/jailkeeper makes whoever survives between Mediocre, Matunas, and myself their priority (50/50 basically).

I get why the cop should prioritize whoever survives, but why the Jailkeeper? Bit of an odd statement.

Also I promise that you aren't a bad Townie, lol. I just saw your gambit as a Townie Mistake, not that you as a player are Bad. Does that make sense?

Thanks for the D1 summary SB! Reading now.

 

[Matunas]

I am responding to things right now.

 

[Strong Badam]

Thanks for the D1 summary SB! Reading now.

Yeah, I didn't finish it, but I wanted to post what I had in the event that scum kills me toNight. I'd have been pissed if I spent that many hours on it and Town didn't get to use it LOL

 

[Lore]

Yeah, I didn't finish it, but I wanted to post what I had in the event that scum kills me toNight. I'd have been pissed if I spent that many hours on it and Town didn't get to use it LOL

Or if we secretly had a dayVig.

Speaking of, DAYKILL: STRONG BAD


Jk lmao but I probably made you jump.

 

[Tom]

Vote Count:
Mediocre (3): Werekill, Matunas, ---
Not voting (4): TewnLeenk, Mediocre, Strong Bad, Rockin

Day 2 will end Tuesday, April 2 at 5:30 pm Central or when a player reaches 4/7 votes.

 

[Mediocre]

Well, looks like I'm pretty likely to get lynched today. I don't really have any arguments I can make against my own lynch that I haven't already made, and apparently people didn't find them compelling. I'm vanilla town, so a roleclaim is pretty meaningless.

I'm done with the work I needed to do today, so I'm going to spend the time I have before anyone hammers me to look back at Tuna's posts so far. Hopefully I can get that up before getting hammered or having to leave for D&D.

I'm also going to take this opportunity to revise my read on Werekill from strong town to something a lot less certain. Upon consideration, it occurred to me that even though he had an easy --- lynch ready, laying the groundwork for a lynch on me toMorrow would be a smart move for a scum Werekill. On the other hand, even before I had him as a strong town I was leaning town on Werekill, and his outright opposition to a --- would be inconveniently hard to walk back. So I'm still leaning pretty town on Werekill, but the read is less strong than it was.

Finally, I might as well

Vote: ---

I'm more or less expecting I'll be lynched at this point, but it doesn't make sense for me to simply let it happen, and a no-lynch is basically never desirable. I'm placing this vote in the hope that the town will decide on a different lynch, but with no expectation that they will. As I mentioned earlier, I don't have a particularly strong scum read on anyone.

 

[Matunas]

I don't completely disagree with the RNG argument, as I'm not familiar with Pythag's posting/playstyles. Do you think there are any other possible strategies beyond attempting to associate with a dead townie? As Mediocre argued, it would be a slight misplay to have gone after Pythag after they rea

I'm sure there are possible strategies beyond that, but that one is what I observed between those posts. I don't have any other specific reads on why Pythag could have been chosen beyond that one though.

I have the feeling they were using me and going for a last ditch move as I had already put myself out in the open purposely. Except for Mediocre whom everyone, bar WK, had down as null for obvious reasons, I'm surprised you think I have a lack of hard stances thus far given my statements on Rockin, SB, and WK or does "lean" mean something different in your own words?

I think this is the likely scenario if you are town. I have been viewing your stances as soft throughout today, because up until recently you have only posted town/null leans during D2 and haven't really posted reads of any kind without prompting. I've gone back through to look at all your posts that involve reads to recap and I think this is the full list:

As of #130, when you voted for Medi, you stated you had no reads - this was really early in the game and SB had just asked you to state your opinion on things. In #217, you gave your full list and it is quite clear, with <pi and Rockin as scummy, and Tewn as slightly scummy, everyone else pretty much null. Post #234 you vote Rockin. #286 is your next set, where it is 3 town-lean, and a variety of nulls. #360 the most recent, is very clear in the whys, with me and Medi as scum lean.

Especially with the most recent posts from you I would no longer say you have a lack of hard stances. In fact your most recent posts are the most I've been able to tell where you stand all game.

I still have a few questions for Matunas, and I feel they're more willing to cooperate. Am also willing to defer to the reasons WK outlined. The town still has a power role in play which I doubt Mediocre is given their indecisiveness. So feel comfortable letting things play out for now.

I'm down for answering questions anytime.

 

[Strong Badam]

Mediocre's post wasn't very compelling to me, but I'm waiting to hear what he has to say about Matunas.

 

[Mediocre]

Mediocre's post wasn't very compelling to me, but I'm waiting to hear what he has to say about Matunas.

I don't have anything compelling to say. I made my arguments against my scumminess, and most people seemed to think they just made me more scummy. Don't think there's much more I can do to change minds, so I'm just going to try to leave the town with any useful information I can glean.

I've been making progress with my Tuna re-read, but so far there's really very little that stands out about him. Hopefully I can glean something meaningful before time runs out.

 

[Mediocre]

Sorry guys. Apparently I'm just not in the right state of mind to go back over old posts and pick them apart in a useful way, and given the time constraints that's unlikely to change. I wish I had more to leave the town with, but I'm still finding it difficult to draw out meaningful information.

One last thing I'll say is that Rockin's confusion over the game state reinforces the idea that he's town for me. Not worth a lot, but I don't got a lot to give.

Anyhow, good luck town.

 

[Strong Badam]

Alrighty. No one else has indicated plans to add anything further and we're less than 30 minutes out from the deadline, so I'll go ahead and hammer.

Vote: Mediocre

 

[Mediocre]

Blugh. Disappointing. Again, I really wish I had been able to give you guys more to work with.

I still don't really understand why nobody was bothered that me NKing Pythag was basically an objectively bad decision for a scum-Medi. I don't know if I'm missing something though, because the more I made that argument the more I convinced people I was scum, despite them acknowledging it was a logical argument.

Was frustrating. Ah well.

 

[Mediocre]

I'm assuming I'm allowed to post in twilight since people did it last time and it wasn't a problem. Hopefully I didn't just break any rules.

 

[Tom]

Vote Count:
Mediocre (4): Werekill, Matunas, ---, Strong Bad
--- (1): Mediocre
Not voting (2): TewnLeenk, Rockin

“Wow, they got Pythag.”

“You mean, you got Pythag! Because you’re Mafia!”

“If I was Mafia, I’d have killed you, not Pythag!”

“Poor Pythag… oh, well. Let’s go play soccer.”

The group spent the day together playing on the field behind the comfy little cottage, kicking around the soccer ball and exchanging stories about their recent lives. They spent the day running, laughing, and cheering. While they were out, Tom wrote another letter.

“Mediocre - you’re one of my favorite friends. Thank you so much for responding to my invitation the way that you did. It was so much fun to see you in this little little village again - it’s too bad I was dead for the whole thing. Maybe next time!”

Medi said his goodbyes and hustled off to catch his ride home.

Mediocre, Vanilla Townie, was lynched Day 2!

Night 2 will end Wednesday, April 3 at 5:30 central. Please send your night actions immediately!

 

[Tom]

After another exhausting day of friendship and fun, the group broke off into individuals and scurried off to their rooms for a night of rest.

Matunas had snuck out of his room Night 1 - he was determined to do it again. He crept down the hallway as quietly as he could, to check if one person in particular was in their room. He then quickly scurried back to his room, shutting the door, closing his eyes, and taking a deep breath.

“Made it.”

“...did you?”

Matunas watched his body fall to the ground. Weird. He watched as the remaining mafia goon went through his pockets for any clues.

“Boooo!” ghost Matunas jeered, embracing his new ghost-like vocabulary.

“Sorry you died,” said Tom, floating there like some kind of friendly ghost.

“Boooo!” Matunas continued, watching the mafia leave and shut the door. He gave a lazy chase, passing through the wall and into the hallway. “Booooooo!”

Matunas, Town Cop, was killed Night 2!

In the morning, Tom, Pythag, and Matunas ate from a big bucket of popcorn as they watched the remaining five friends prepare for the day.

Vote Count:
Not voting (5): Werekill, Strong Bad, TewnLeenk, Rockin, ---

Day 3 will end Saturday, April 6 at 5:30 pm Central or when a player reaches 3/5 votes.

 

[Lore]

Well ****.

 

[Lore]

I'm going to do my reread tonight and post in the morning. Going to go over Matunas's post with a fine tooth comb, same with Strong Bad.

It's past time to settle my read on him.

 

[Strong Badam]

Both town PRs back to back? All we really have is a potential result of Matunas' night 1, provided he didn't investigate Pythag.

Strong Badam I think (for the most part) people have been pretty clear on reads, and if there is a cop with any information flips will likely reveal a lot.

I'll be doing the same as Werekill (rereading tonight, trying to post tomorrow morning). Really busy this evening though, hopefully I can find something useful.

 

[TewnLeenk]

Damn, that's a pretty big blow.

This is a tough situation right here. Didn't really have any crazy scum reads on anyone, except for --- playing weird.

 

[Lore]

Quick observation, Matunas had Strong Bad as strong town read while leaving me as more of a town lean.

I believe that's his only strong town read too, unless I'm missing something.

I'm continuing my reread, but if the above is the case, I feel secure in thinking Matunas got an Cop-Innocent on SB.

 

[Lore]

*a cop-innocent

 

[Rockin]

Ugh, unfortunate for Matunas and Medi ;_;

 

[---]

Well there goes my biggest suspect going into Day 3. RIP Matunas (the dead get popcorn?)

I'll have to re-think a couple of my reads as it's clear that being apart of the <Pi vote is no longer an indication of townie-ness.

 

[Strong Badam]

Cool, so I'm still re-reading but I have a good idea of what's going on.

---
When you get the chance, could you post an updated read list with reasons please?

I would also like to hear TewnLeenk 's rundown of the last two town deaths, and updated reads.

 

[---]

SB - I'm feeling the strongest about right now. Besides being active, their start of the <Pi bandwagon & Matunas's strong town read sticks out.

WK - After the Mediocre lynch, I'm feeling a little less strong on now, but I can't deny their activity and reasoning beyond potentially being a smart scum player. In response to their #405 post, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a jailkeeper block all actions coming from and towards the jailed player for the Night including kills?

TewnLeenk - I feel they've been playing pretty safe the entire game and have mostly repeated the talking points of others. I gave them some slack on Day 2 due to their <Pi vote, of which they were 2nd, so I need to hear more now especially after not voting yesterday. They were left out of <Pi's reads which could mean something or nothing like Matunas/Mediocre deaths ultimately did. You've said you feel I'm scummy, but do you have any thoughts in relation to my counterpoints about a scum player playing this off-the-cuff or <Pi also being confused by my breadcrumbing?

Rockin - Am starting to get a handle on their playstyle slightly and appreciate their willingness to role claim. While I do sympathize with wanting to keep reads/votes black & white, at this point in the game I feel you need to take a bit more risk in showing your commitment to the town, as openly committing to not voting stands out #381. I'm the most curious to hear your arguments for a WK lynch.

I think there might have been less potential RNG involved with Matunas's death given my final 50/50 push in my last Day 2 post.

 

[Lore]

Today I'll be rereading with a focus on Rockin and Tewn.

Currently I believe Matunas to have Investigated SB, from his statements. Please let me know if I missed a more direct hint towards a different player.

So I see Strong Bad as Town from that, plus past behavior.

For - - -, I've stated my beliefs on their gambit. They also increased their activity and have been much more open. So I'm pretty OK with them as a Town read.


This means that my personal lynch pool is between Tewn and Rockin. I'll be rereading their content and trying to figure out which one is scum.

 

[---]

Just letting everyone know that I'll be a bit out of it for the first third of this phase. I have a job interview later that will be throwing my sleep schedule off on top of going back into work tonight. Will do my best to keep track of and respond to posts as best I can over the coming day.

 

[TewnLeenk]

I'll be discussing the deaths and my updated reads here.

<pi's death I feel was pretty straightforward.

Pythag I didn't really have a read on during the game and didn't really interact with them much so I don't have too much to say regarding them.

I thought Mediocre was slightly scummy during day 1-2. The first thing that stood out to me was how they said they would be uncomfortable with a <pi lynch. Now that we all knew who <pi was, it stood out even more. They also made a big post singling me out and going over a bunch of stuff I've said during the game which was odd. Werekill made the suggestion that it was someone trying to mislead a new player and get them on their side which I ultimately believed until the end.

Matunas death caught me off guard. I couldn't really get a strong read on them during the game and had them as a Null or borderline Town read for most of the game.

Anywho,

Strong Bad I have as Town. Probably the strongest player in the game right now in my opinion. Active, always looking for information, and has great notes and insight on what's going on.

Werekill I have as Town too for similar reasons I've stated above for SB. Werekill however is a lot more aggressive in how he talks and seeks out his info.

--- I have you as Null now. I've backed off my scummy reads for you after seeing what other more experienced players are saying about you. I will admit that I was probably confused by the weird breadcrumbing and just didn't understand what you were doing, which made me see slight scum.

Rockin is my scum as of right now. The comments from the previous day about being the only Vanilla Townie and not voting in the end stood out to me. I know that I didn't vote either, but I had made it clear that my intention was the vote Mediocre, he just got hammered before I did. Would love to see your updated reads and stuff today.



--- good luck on your job interview!

 

[Strong Badam]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts y'all.
I would love to hear from Rockin today. How are you feeling? Do you have any insights on the role flips? What are your reads looking like going into toDay?

WK - After the Mediocre lynch, I'm feeling a little less strong on now, but I can't deny their activity and reasoning beyond potentially being a smart scum player. In response to their #405 post, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a jailkeeper block all actions coming from and towards the jailed player for the Night including kills?

That's correct.

Well there goes my biggest suspect going into Day 3. RIP Matunas (the dead get popcorn?)

It's interesting to me that Matunas was your biggest scumread yesterday; could you further elaborate on why? I found a couple posts talking about it but they were a bit non-committal (#360 #401) and you ultimately voted Mediocre instead.

I'll have to re-think a couple of my reads as it's clear that being apart of the <Pi vote is no longer an indication of townie-ness.

What prompts this statement? The only member of the <Pi vote that has died is Matunas and they flipped town. Could you explain why you feel this way?

Werekill I have as Town too for similar reasons I've stated above for SB. Werekill however is a lot more aggressive in how he talks and seeks out his info.

I do feel like this is part of why the Mediocre vs Werekill 1v1 broke out. Which I am reading as a TownvTown interaction right now unless I get more evidence to the contrary.

--- I have you as Null now. I've backed off my scummy reads for you after seeing what other more experienced players are saying about you. I will admit that I was probably confused by the weird breadcrumbing and just didn't understand what you were doing, which made me see slight scum.

Could you track down some posts that helped sway your opinion here and quote them? I'd love to read them and get more insight into your new view on ---.

Rockin is my scum as of right now. The comments from the previous day about being the only Vanilla Townie and not voting in the end stood out to me. I know that I didn't vote either, but I had made it clear that my intention was the vote Mediocre, he just got hammered before I did. Would love to see your updated reads and stuff today.

Also, best of luck on your interview @---.

 

[Strong Badam]

^I didn't mean to quote TewnLeenk's read on Rockin, I meant to simply wish --- best of luck on their interview after the 2nd query on Tewn.

 

[TewnLeenk]

Strong Badam These are the ones that really helped me flip my opinion after a re-read.

On ---, and I will quote Tewn for context:





--- is not being active, and when they are, they haven't given solid and clear content until recently. If that's your reasoning for voting, go ahead. I have no objections other than my town read on them.

But if your vote is due to their claim, I'm 100% against it.

Let's really dive into their claim. They laid down hints (misleadingly making them point towards Neapolitan through the use of positive/negative context), made the claim incredibly early, and they stated their intent to use Night PMs.

The Night PMs were probably going to be "btw I'm Vanilla, I just wanted to draw fire towards me to bait scum" or something similar, and I expect that regardless of ---'s role, that aspect of the gambit would have remained the same. It's the only Night PM scenario that makes sense to me. Night PMs by themselves aren't fishy.

So I want to ask this of everyone voting for --- due to their gambit. Please lay out to me, clearly and concisely, the benefit Scum gains from the gambit. It was massively early, and it involved a role (neapolitan) that we now know for a fact was not a safe claim for Scum. The only world where it was a guaranteed safe claim? Goon/goon. <pi flipped rolecop, so we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was not a safe claim.

So what Scum would claim that early with an unsafe claim? And all to do what? Draw a potential cop's investigation towards them? Draw a doctor? Make themselves a laser target for a town lynch? The doctor is the only beneficial outcome there, and the other two are massively negative towards Scum.


I still 100% read it as a bad Town gambit, and I am strictly against anyone voting for them solely because of it. If you want to vote for them for other reasons, sure. That's your call. But I ask you to rethink your vote if it's based mostly on the gambit.

Have been up for 19 hours now, so this will be my last post of the phase.



Votes are definitely tools, so I don't disagree with you there. My first vote on Mediocre was a poke.

All of the scum reads they listed were all people, who as it turned out, rightfully voted against him. So I question why they were firm in pressing the three of us as town reads at two separate points. Granted they didn't give reads on TewnLeenk or Mediocre, but it's also a good strategy to mix their partner in with a two townies. Your 206 post makes me lean more towards the latter.

Whoever survives into Night 2, given <Pi's reads, I would insist the town cop/jailkeeper makes whoever survives between Mediocre, Matunas, and myself their priority (50/50 basically).

I don't completely disagree with the RNG argument, as I'm not familiar with Pythag's posting/playstyles. Do you think there are any other possible strategies beyond attempting to associate with a dead townie? As Mediocre argued, it would be a slight misplay to have gone after Pythag after they rea



I have the feeling they were using me and going for a last ditch move as I had already put myself out in the open purposely. Except for Mediocre whom everyone, bar WK, had down as null for obvious reasons, I'm surprised you think I have a lack of hard stances thus far given my statements on Rockin, SB, and WK or does "lean" mean something different in your own words?

I still standby my overall strategy. Vanilla & Neapolitan were separate guesses reached by WK/SB. Night PMs are a place to barter for info, so breadcrumbing and saving a direct claim for private hands is a way to both show interest in town activities and have something to value to earn trust in later phases. Given <Pi's continued belief about me being the Neapolitan even after I soft pushed SB to correct themselves, your vote I think states you think I'm more likely to be a nonsensical scum player than a townie (or a bad townie in WK's view >_>).



Both are 50/50 in my mind. One hasn't contributed, the other has some questionable associations and timings.

Vote: Mediocre

I still have a few questions for Matunas, and I feel they're more willing to cooperate. Am also willing to defer to the reasons WK outlined. The town still has a power role in play which I doubt Mediocre is given their indecisiveness. So feel comfortable letting things play out for now.

 

[Strong Badam]

TewnLeenk Awesome, thanks for the swift reply.

In post #432 you mention that what other experienced players (plural) said about --- swayed your opinion. Here you linked a post by Werekill and --- himself. Were there any other posts by other players that helped to change your view on ---, or was Werekill's push more or less the only contributing factor? I'm not trying to nitpick your posts to paint you has as scum, I'd like to fully understand how your viewpoint shifted during Day 2.

 

[Rockin]

I can understand everyone thinks that Matunas may have used his night action on SB and gotten a townie clear from him. I am okay with that settlement. With the way things are. After reading D2, I can see matunas being co-operative with SB (he must've didn't want to use his Night action on --- cause he believed the Napolitian breadcrumb at the time)

I feel that toDay's lynch pool is going to be between werekill and Tewnlenk.

Before I explain, I want to ONCE AGAIN, explain my actions as it seems people STILL find my actions 'weird' and not scummy. That's pretty much all I've seen, and it makes it difficult to defend myself when there isn't a legit reason to feel I'm scummy. I'll admit, my D2 play was pretty lazy, mostly because I was sold on a --- lynch and nothing else (unless it was werekill). Medi hasn't seen scummy to me in regards of his actions, and that's why I didn't want any part of it (not to mention I had work from 5PM to 1 AM EST so there was no way I couldn't change vote incase people changed their minds). I understand that a lot of my actions from D1 and D2 have been weird, but there is a logic behind it.

For example: I went to counterclaim --- cause I thought I was the only vanilla townie. The examples I saw at the beginning post were all 9 roles in the game, and figured Tom was just being upfront about it. The flips shown thus far seemed to be accurate to it, and I wasn't going to question it (as I've been playing Mafia games where a good portion of roles on mafia and townie side was the norm. (Hell, one time in EE's game, everyone had a pr LOL). ANYWAY, I counterclaimed cause I thought it was a mafia goon trying to claim vanilla townie. Some people may say that it's weird, but from a Mafia prespective, it would be terrible play on my part. Cause if he did flip vanilla townie, I would've been on the chopping block garanteed. There was also the possibility of me dying on D2. No bueno on either side.

So with that said, it seems our lynch is going to be either werekill or tewnlenk.

ever since D1, I never liked werekill and his post. Granted, I saw no one really as town, but gut was getting some scummy vibes from werekill's posts and votes early on. I know a lot of people have made claims of town leans on him, but I haven't seen it at all throughout D1 or D2. I had SB on null for a long while, but I can at least see why they think HE is townie. As D2 went on, I still couldn't say for certain that he was town, but I definetely had more trust in his contribution/towniness as he kept posting. Werekill, however, didn't look better in D2 and I get that he trying to buddy up SB while doing his best to look good to the other players.

Tewnlink I had no problems with D1. they were null, but they were also new players (which is why I was KINDLY asking werekill and SB to slow down and let others like Tewnlink post so we can get more of an idea of how they think/who their scum reads are. They were somewhat contributing on D1. D2 however, I saw a lot of parroting. It was somewhat expected, but it wasn't going to fly by me...especially with how they thought from D2 to D3

So I'm still leaning slightly towards --- because I just don't know what they're doing. I was originally pretty set and ready to vote for them but after reading some of the arguments about the gambit or whatever, I'm kinda backing off a bit. I'm still reading them as scum but it's not as severe as it was yesterday.

Mediocre's been a roller coaster for me. I was initially suspicious of them because of the whole <pi thing, but after their post #301 I was going to back off a bit. BUT THEN Werekill came in and dropped that #321 heat on us and I've been mulling it over for a while now. Now I'm back to reading scum on Mediocre.

Rockin is my scum as of right now. The comments from the previous day about being the only Vanilla Townie and not voting in the end stood out to me. I know that I didn't vote either, but I had made it clear that my intention was the vote Mediocre, he just got hammered before I did. Would love to see your updated reads and stuff today.

I dunno how the vanilla townie thing stood out to you as scummy, as goes the voting. at least on D1, I left it there mainly in hopes that we get some form of information (and that it was D1 so I didn't want a no-lynch to happen)

 

[Rockin]

before anyone ask, yes, I do know what the setup is and once again, in agreement of it

 

[TewnLeenk]

TewnLeenk Awesome, thanks for the swift reply.

In post #432 you mention that what other experienced players (plural) said about --- swayed your opinion. Here you linked a post by Werekill and --- himself. Were there any other posts by other players that helped to change your view on ---, or was Werekill's push more or less the only contributing factor? I'm not trying to nitpick your posts to paint you has as scum, I'd like to fully understand how your viewpoint shifted during Day 2.

It was mostly Werekill's push at the end. It was very helpful to have someone kind of lay it all out for me and to have a fresh perspective on the situation so that I'm not just stuck there with my own thoughts and ideas only. I get that this makes me look I can be manipulated, but to me it was very helpful for me and for my understanding of the game. I was fairly unfamiliar to the whole breadcrumb concept to begin with.

Tewnlink I had no problems with D1. they were null, but they were also new players (which is why I was KINDLY asking werekill and SB to slow down and let others like Tewnlink post so we can get more of an idea of how they think/who their scum reads are. They were somewhat contributing on D1. D2 however, I saw a lot of parroting. It was somewhat expected, but it wasn't going to fly by me...especially with how they thought from D2 to D3

I dunno how the vanilla townie thing stood out to you as scummy, as goes the voting. at least on D1, I left it there mainly in hopes that we get some form of information (and that it was D1 so I didn't want a no-lynch to happen)

It's just something I noticed. I thought you were trying to make some deceptions about how the game was set up or something like that. Or maybe it's just my big dummy brain overthinking things.

 

[Strong Badam]

Sweet, thanks for your contribution Rockin. If you don't mind, I have some questions about a few of your reads and thoughts.

ever since D1, I never liked werekill and his post. Granted, I saw no one really as town, but gut was getting some scummy vibes from werekill's posts and votes early on. I know a lot of people have made claims of town leans on him, but I haven't seen it at all throughout D1 or D2. I had SB on null for a long while, but I can at least see why they think HE is townie. As D2 went on, I still couldn't say for certain that he was town, but I definetely had more trust in his contribution/towniness as he kept posting. Werekill, however, didn't look better in D2 and I get that he trying to buddy up SB while doing his best to look good to the other players.

Do you feel like Werekill joined in on the <Pi grilling so early as a bus attempt? While he was the 3rd vote, the storyline is basically like this:
Werekill initiates RVS with a vote on ---.
<Pi overreacts to RVS
Myself and Werekill consistently grill him throughout the day on this and other issues.
<Pi is eventually lynched and flips scum.
Do you think <pi's overreaction to RVS would have occurred if the player initiating RVS was scum? To me, that reads as a bizarre day 1 bus in a scenario where <Pi was not even under suspicion yet.

Tewnlink I had no problems with D1. they were null, but they were also new players (which is why I was KINDLY asking werekill and SB to slow down and let others like Tewnlink post so we can get more of an idea of how they think/who their scum reads are. They were somewhat contributing on D1. D2 however, I saw a lot of parroting. It was somewhat expected, but it wasn't going to fly by me...especially with how they thought from D2 to D3

So you'd say that Tewn reads as slightly scummy to you due to inactivity?
Additionally, have you considered that Tewn was the second vote on <Pi in this read? Does that information change your read at all?