Toad parade - Oh boy it's Els--- I mean, Rosalina

[Oz37]

Honestly, Toad is the only character that I really want to be in the new SSB games. Any other additions will be welcomed so long as the little tyke makes the cut, but I'll be severely disappointed should he be absent from the playable roster. Not so disappointed as to not buy and play both versions of the game, but enough that it'll take a little consoling and a lot of Super Mario 3D World (because of Toad's inclusion) to help me recover.

As far as potential moves, I like a lot of the suggestions here, but one I haven't seen is the use of the NSMB bubble ability that one can do in multiplayer. Press Up+B, and Toad is suddenly floating in a bubble that you direct for a couple seconds, kinda like Pit's wings. When the bubble bursts, it causes damage to anyone right next to Toad while he plummets downward to a platform or his demise. I don't really think it will be in his moveset (should be in), but I think it'd be cool!

(PS, this is my first post on the forum! yay!)

EDIT: Another move I didn't notice anyone put out there is for Toad to use his Spore Counter for himself. Under the assumption that Peach gets a new B move, it makes complete sense for him to steal that counter attack.

 

[Groose]

Honestly, Toad is the only character that I really want to be in the new SSB games. Any other additions will be welcomed so long as the little tyke makes the cut, but I'll be severely disappointed should he be absent from the playable roster. Not so disappointed as to not buy and play both versions of the game, but enough that it'll take a little consoling and a lot of Super Mario 3D World (because of Toad's inclusion) to help me recover.

As far as potential moves, I like a lot of the suggestions here, but one I haven't seen is the use of the NSMB bubble ability that one can do in multiplayer. Press Up+B, and Toad is suddenly floating in a bubble that you direct for a couple seconds, kinda like Pit's wings. When the bubble bursts, it causes damage to anyone right next to Toad while he plummets downward to a platform or his demise. I don't really think it will be in his moveset (should be in), but I think it'd be cool!

(PS, this is my first post on the forum! yay!)

Welcome to the club! And, that is a pretty novel suggestion.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Honestly, Toad is the only character that I really want to be in the new SSB games. Any other additions will be welcomed so long as the little tyke makes the cut, but I'll be severely disappointed should he be absent from the playable roster. Not so disappointed as to not buy and play both versions of the game, but enough that it'll take a little consoling and a lot of Super Mario 3D World (because of Toad's inclusion) to help me recover.

As far as potential moves, I like a lot of the suggestions here, but one I haven't seen is the use of the NSMB bubble ability that one can do in multiplayer. Press Up+B, and Toad is suddenly floating in a bubble that you direct for a couple seconds, kinda like Pit's wings. When the bubble bursts, it causes damage to anyone right next to Toad while he plummets downward to a platform or his demise. I don't really think it will be in his moveset (should be in), but I think it'd be cool!

(PS, this is my first post on the forum! yay!)

 

[Oz37]

Bahaha, thanks to the both of you!

 

[Arcadenik]

I think that Toad is objectively the most deserving of all potential Mario newcomers.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

So I wondered now about Toad's chances and I just thought that if the whole thing about Melee's Dojo was true in Peach's Bio where Sakurai thought "Toad can't fight", is there any chance he'll still be in that stance despite Villager and Miss Fit showing anyone can be made into a fighter, not to mention Toad(s)'s increased showing in Mario-games?

Though there could still be that maybe he'd want Toad to stay as Peach's "bodyguard" and have Peach keep that particular trait in her moveset?

 

[Maffewt]

So I wondered now about Toad's chances and I just thought that if the whole thing about Melee's Dojo was true in Peach's Bio where Sakurai thought "Toad can't fight", is there any chance he'll still be in that stance despite Villager and Miss Fit showing anyone can be made into a fighter, not to mention Toad(s)'s increased showing in Mario-games?

Though there could still be that maybe he'd want Toad to stay as Peach's "bodyguard" and have Peach keep that particular trait in her moveset?

After the recent comment about wanting to have Villager in Brawl in the early stages, which contradicts what he said post-Brawl about believing he couldn't fight, I honestly think a lot f the reasons he gives for not putting characters in are mostly excuses... On the other hand, I'm bias, I think Toad is objectively the most bankable newcomer after Lil Mac.

 

[Maffewt]

So I wondered now about Toad's chances and I just thought that if the whole thing about Melee's Dojo was true in Peach's Bio where Sakurai thought "Toad can't fight", is there any chance he'll still be in that stance despite Villager and Miss Fit showing anyone can be made into a fighter, not to mention Toad(s)'s increased showing in Mario-games?

Though there could still be that maybe he'd want Toad to stay as Peach's "bodyguard" and have Peach keep that particular trait in her moveset?

After the recent comment about wanting to have Villager in Brawl in the early stages*, which contradicts what he said post-Brawl about believing he couldn't fight, I honestly think a lot f the reasons he gives for not putting characters in are mostly excuses... On the other hand, I'm bias, I think Toad is objectively the most bankable newcomer after Lil Mac.

(http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/06/sakurai_explains_the_reasoning_behind_the_new_characters_in_super_smash_bros
actual quote: "In fact, Sakurai, who wrote this column at the end of the first day of E3, revealed the Villager was originally pencilled in to be playable on Super Smash Bros. Brawl")

 

[bballstar23]

Adding to that, I think Namco likes Toad too, considering Toad is one of the costumes in Tekken Wii U

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X7qxOFm3zE

I have a feeling that if Namco had a hand in picking characters, Toad would have much higher chances.

Wow, I never realized that. I actually think you bring up a good point with this. I'm pretty sure Namco had already began collaborating on SSB4 at the time of Tekken's release for the Wii U. Interesting to note the costumes they included, especially Sheik, who really only retains relevance through SSB at this point. I wonder if that helps Toad's chances at all considering all the other costumes are of characters playable in SSB. That might just be me over-speculating though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sheik sux. Toad rox.

 

[FalKoopa]

Impa sux. Toad and Sheik rox.

Fixed.

 

[Diddy Kong]

There was nothing in need of fixing. So in all actuality, you broke it.

 

[FalKoopa]

There was nothing in need of fixing. So in all actuality, you broke it.

Lol? How on earth could I have broken something which was already broken? You should be thanking me.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's like porcelin, very fragile, but very valluable.

 

[Arcadenik]

Toad definitely has more stuff to work with this time around compared to pre-Brawl when he only had Super Mario Bros. 2 and Wario's Woods on top of countless spin-off games. Toad is known for his association with items so why not have Toad use items as part of his moveset?

B: Iceball (from New Super Mario Bros. Wii)
Toad gains ice powers from the Ice Flower. Toad throws an Iceball that bounces once. It moves faster and higher than Mario's Fireball. It can freeze enemies upon contact.

Side B: Flying Squirrel (from New Super Mario Bros. U)
Toad uses the power of the Super Acorn to launch himself through the air like Luigi's Green Missile. If Toad hits the wall, he can cling to it and either do his Up B or Side B moves.

Up B: Propeller Toad (from New Super Mario Bros. Wii)
Toad launches himself up in the air with the Propeller Mushroom. He attacks enemies overhead on his way up and then he floats back down slowly like Peach's Parasol.

Down B: Scratch Cat (from Super Mario 3D World)
Toad rings the Cat Bell to pounce on the enemy from the air and scratch them like a cat. The enemy has to shake Toad off them... however, it's harder to shake Toad off at higher percentages.

Final Smash: Wanda's Bombs (from Wario's Woods)
Toad calls his fairy friend Wanda for help. Wanda flies from above and waves her wand to make colorful bombs rain from above. It is like Sudden Death with bombs dropping everywhere.

 

[ChronoBound]

I don't know how anyone can feel Toad does not deserve playable status for Smash Bros. after Super Mario 3D World's announcement. He is definitely the most deserving Mario character not yet playable in Smash Bros., and probably one of the few Nintendo All-Stars left not yet playable. Super Mario Bros. 2, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, New Super Mario Bros. U, and now Super Mario 3D World. Toad is definitely a major staple to the Mario franchise.

 

[8-peacock-8]

http://wonchop.deviantart.com/art/TOAD-IS-THE-BED-170994433

 

[ErictheLone]

I'm down with Toad. I think he should be small yet powerful as a nod to his strength in SMB2. Maybe when he grabs a character he can run around with them on his back.

 

[CalumG]

Wow, that's actually pretty cool. I'm trying to think of a way to prove you wrong right now, but I believe you are correct.

Anywho, if another Mario character is to make it, Toad definitely is the most deserving. The poor fellow has been there forever. But please, if he does make it, make his moveset unorthodox and completely outside the box. Toad does have the potential for that. For example, and this may not be canonical, but in the old cartoon series, Toad used to take off his fungus-hat-thing and use it as a parachute when he was in danger of falling. I always found it hilarious and pretty awesome; I'd love to see a similar mechanic in Smash if he were to make it.

Honestly, I hope Toad's moveset is relatively conventional compared to some of the newcomers Brawl and 4 have had. That's not to say I haven't enjoyed many of the newcomers we've seen since Melee, but Brawl got its fair share of "unique" character mechanics (Pokemon Trainer, Olimar, Lucario, Zero Suit) as well as many characters receiving moves on the basis of being fresh and unusual moves rather than moves that complement their character (Wario's Bike, rather than the wealth of more obvious Side Specials he could've had). So far with Smash 4, we've seen 3 great newcomers, but Wii Fit Trainer looks out of this world, and both Megaman and Villager look like they're trying to pack a whole lot of ideas from their games into their movesets (cutting down trees; projectiles as normal attacks rather than specials).

Toad, I think, could benefit from being a relatively 'standard' character, like how Diddy Kong was a relatively normal fighter among some of the more unconventional playstyles introduced by the Brawl newcomers. Toad's uniqueness, I think, should come from Toad's unique stats - that is, his strength and speed are far greater than you'd expect from his small and light weight class, including the ability to carry characters (a la DK), though this would be balanced out by a poor aerial game and small hitboxes.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

All I know is.

As much as I'd be fine with any other Mario rep getting in.

I'd much rather Toad first. After all he's got a storied history.

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't know how anyone can feel Toad does not deserve playable status for Smash Bros. after Super Mario 3D World's announcement. He is definitely the most deserving Mario character not yet playable in Smash Bros., and probably one of the few Nintendo All-Stars left not yet playable. Super Mario Bros. 2, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, New Super Mario Bros. U, and now Super Mario 3D World. Toad is definitely a major staple to the Mario franchise.

Because some people find that a mini Bowser, an 2D Mario, an obscure yet overrated puppet, and an "original character do not steal" Villain Sue are more interesting than an useless boring generic NPC. Granted, that's how Toads were portrayed in SMB1, SMB3, SM64, Sunshine, Galaxy 1+2, and the first NSMB game... so 20 years of portraying Toads as such would influence their perceptions even though Toad was just as good as Mario, Luigi, and Peach in that one game.... well, good thing that one game influenced the latest 3D Mario game. And Toads are becoming more useful in the post-Brawl main Mario games.

I'm down with Toad. I think he should be small yet powerful as a nod to his strength in SMB2. Maybe when he grabs a character he can run around with them on his back.

Considering Toad got his SMB2 speed back in Super Mario 3D World, I think it makes a whole lot sense for Toad to be a small yet nimble fighter in Smash... Toad's Melee/Brawl trophies mentioned Toad's speed and superhuman strength and that was before the Toads were playable in the New Super Mario Bros. games... meaning Sakurai has always acknowledged Toad's unique attributes from SMB2 this whole time even though many people thought Toads were useless boring generic NPC's.

 

[SpaceJell0]

Alright I'm just here to ask a question about Toad and his potential inclusion (as I'm not a supporter of Toad but I wouldn't mind him) how would he kick? His stubby feet are so weird xD I mean at least the Kirby characters have longer feet I'm not flaming, I'm just curious...

 

[FalKoopa]

Toad doesn't need to kick.

His hands and head are enough, lol.

 

[APC99]

OK, this isn't really on-topic about Toad for Smash, but it's about Toad. Isn't the playable Toad in 3D World BLUE TOAD? I thought that this:

Was the original Toad, because of the red cap, blue vest and brown shoes. And the Toad in SM3DW:

Is just this Toad:

And Princess Peach just replaced the yellow Toad. Now, I am in no way a Anti-Toad person. I would really enjoy it if Toad got in. I honestly think he's more deserving than Waluigi (one of my favorite characters) and Bowser Junior (who should use his paintbrush instead of being a Bowser clone), but I don't think that the Toadin 3D World is the REAL Toad we all know and love.

 

[Maffewt]

OK, this isn't really on-topic about Toad for Smash, but it's about Toad. Isn't the playable Toad in 3D World BLUE TOAD? I thought that this:

Was the original Toad, because of the red cap, blue vest and brown shoes. And the Toad in SM3DW:

Is just this Toad:

And Princess Peach just replaced the yellow Toad. Now, I am in no way a Anti-Toad person. I would really enjoy it if Toad got in. I honestly think he's more deserving than Waluigi (one of my favorite characters) and Bowser Junior (who should use his paintbrush instead of being a Bowser clone), but I don't think that the Toadin 3D World is the REAL Toad we all know and love.

How come the icon is different in each pic? :O

 

[FalKoopa]

@APC99
Don't worry about that. I'm pretty sure we'll have both as palette swaps.

The blue toad is a reference to Super Mario Bros. 2, where Toad has blue colour in his both hat and vest due to technical limitations.

 

[DarkKry4]

I don't think he'll stop being Peach's neutral b move. Sakurai already decided that for him. He won't be in the new smash as a playable character.

 

[CalumG]

I don't think he'll stop being Peach's neutral b move. Sakurai already decided that for him. He won't be in the new smash as a playable character.

Just like Sakurai already decided Charizard as a Pokeball Pokemon? Or how he already decided on Dedede as a cameo in Dreamland?

Movesets change, and Sakurai's opinion changes (see: Villager). Your argument is invalid.

 

[Bowserlick]

Alright I'm just here to ask a question about Toad and his potential inclusion (as I'm not a supporter of Toad but I wouldn't mind him) how would he kick? His stubby feet are so weird xD I mean at least the Kirby characters have longer feet I'm not flaming, I'm just curious...

He could dropkick and use his body as a spring to launch his boots into an enemy. For example his Up Smash could be him standing on his head upside down, scrunching up his torso and then launching his boots upwards.

Also fluttering kicking in the air either downward or as a neutral special where he rotates his body like a flip kick with his fluttering boots.

 

[DarkKry4]

Just like Sakurai already decided Charizard as a Pokeball Pokemon? Or how he already decided on Dedede as a cameo in Dreamland?

Movesets change, and Sakurai's opinion changes (see: Villager). Your argument is invalid.

No it isn't invalid (and that point is overused). I don't recall a special move in smash becoming a playable character later in the next game. Stage cameos and pokeballs are different. So are possible additions to the roster (aka villager.)

 

[CalumG]

No it isn't invalid (and that point is overused). I don't recall a special move in smash becoming a playable character later in the next game. Stage cameos and pokeballs are different. So are possible additions to the roster (aka villager.)

First of all, way to miss what I was saying completely (that is, that non-characters have become playable in the past - it's not set in stone). Secondly, no there hasn't been a Special Move that's become a playable character in the next game, because apart from Toad, Dedede's minions and the Pikmin there are no Special Moves that are actually living things. What, are you expecting me to suggest that Fireballs should be playable too? That they should make Diddy Kong's Banana Peel a playable character in the next Smash?

Also, how exactly are Stage cameos and Pokeballs different? Just saying "they're different" doesn't prove a thing. The facts here are that movesets have changed over the course of the series, and that characters have been elevated from non-playable to playable - what form that non-playable appearance takes is irrelevant.

 

[DarkKry4]

First of all, way to miss what I was saying completely (that is, that non-characters have become playable in the past - it's not set in stone). Secondly, no there hasn't been a Special Move that's become a playable character in the next game, because apart from Toad, Dedede's minions and the Pikmin there are no Special Moves that are actually living things. What, are you expecting me to suggest that Fireballs should be playable too? That they should make Diddy Kong's Banana Peel a playable character in the next Smash?

Also, how exactly are Stage cameos and Pokeballs different? Just saying "they're different" doesn't prove a thing. The facts here are that movesets have changed over the course of the series, and that characters have been elevated from non-playable to playable - what form that non-playable appearance takes is irrelevant.

And you're missing what i'm saying.


one stage cameo becoming playable later. Its not hard to imagine. Same with pokeballs. But i'm almost 100 percent sure hes going to stay a neutral b of Peach's. Hes been in two consecutive Smash Bros as just that. And do people really see that changing anytime soon? Some people try to use the same argument with Ridley already being a Boss in Smash like " Blah blah Sakurai can change his mind blah" but its just common sense.

 

[CalumG]

one stage cameo becoming playable later. Its not hard to imagine. Same with pokeballs. But i'm almost 100 percent sure hes going to stay a neutral b of Peach's.

You've just avoided my question entirely. You think it's not hard to imagine stage cameos or Pokeball cameos becoming playable, yet you're sure Toad couldn't be playable - you've not said why that is. What makes a stage cameo and a moveset cameo different? And what makes you so certain that Sakurai makes the same differentiation between the two as you do?

Hes been in two consecutive Smash Bros as just that.

Charizard was a Pokeball Pokemon for two games. And before you tell me that Pokeball Pokemon is a different scenario, try explaining why that is. Being "100 percent" certain isn't a valid reason in a debate.

 

[DarkKry4]

You've just avoided my question entirely. You think it's not hard to imagine stage cameos or Pokeball cameos becoming playable, yet you're sure Toad couldn't be playable - you've not said why that is. What makes a stage cameo and a moveset cameo different? And what makes you so certain that Sakurai makes the same differentiation between the two as you do?

Reason: Has the transition from special move cameo to playable character in Smash happened before? The answer is no. Granted yes there aren't many character cameos in movesets but that doesn't change the fact that it simply hasn't happened in smash does it?

 

[CalumG]

Reason: Has the transition from special move cameo to playable character in Smash happened before? The answer is no. Granted yes there aren't many character cameos in movesets but that doesn't change the fact that it simply hasn't happened in smash does it?

The transition from stage cameo to character hadn't happened before until Brawl - Nor had the transition from Pokeball Pokemon to playable Pokemon. That didn't stop Dedede or Charizard. You're going around in circles here.

 

[DarkKry4]

The transition from stage cameo to character hadn't happened before until Brawl - Nor had the transition from Pokeball Pokemon to playable Pokemon. That didn't stop Dedede or Charizard. You're going around in circles here.

lol You can't act like Dedede didn't have a chance because he was a stage cameo. he didn't even have a 3d model in the game like Toad did :/

Stage cameo and pokeballs don't really discourage anything in my opinion. A moveset cameo is different to me just because it just seems a part of the character already incorporating it aka Peach

Thats just my personal opinion.

Also in the Smash universe. A toad apparently emits a green spray that causes knockback everytime its hit. That right there makes him unsuitable already.

 

[CalumG]

lol You can't act like Dedede didn't have a chance because he was a stage cameo. he didn't even have a 3d model in the game like Toad did :/

No, I'm not acting like that. If anything I'm saying the opposite of that - that all characters have a chance despite their previous appearances in Smash. In fact, a previous appearance in Smash arguably makes a character more likely because it shows that character was deemed important enough by Sakurai to be given representation, even if it isn't in playable form initially (priorities and all that).

Stage cameo and pokeballs don't really discourage anything in my opinion. A moveset cameo is different to me just because it just seems a part of the character already incorporating it aka Peach

Movesets have easily been changed in the past. Peach is not defined by her use of Toad, and if anything, would benefit from getting a new Standard B to reflect her appearances in newer games (I still feel we're overdue a Super Princess Peach-themed move).

Also in the Smash universe. A toad apparently emits a green spray that causes knockback everytime its hit. That right there makes him unsuitable already.

How, how does that make him unsuitable? Now I'm just starting to think you're trolling because none of your logic (or lack thereof) has any sort of consistency behind it. Toad having a damaging move in a game about fighting somehow makes him unsuitable?

Like, I get it; you don't want Toad to be playable. That's fine. Hell, there are some decent arguments out there for why he shouldn't be - you have yet to make any of these arguments, opting instead for some unusual brand of circular logic and straw man arguments. The facts are that movesets have changed in the past, characters have been elevated from non-playable to playable, and that Toad's spores literally have nothing to do with it. If Toad doesn't get in, he doesn't get in - but it won't be for any of the half-baked reasons you've suggested.

 

[DarkKry4]

Movesets have easily been changed in the past. Peach is not defined by her use of Toad, and if anything, would benefit from getting a new Standard B to reflect her appearances in newer games (I still feel we're overdue a Super Princess Peach-themed move).

The only time they've ever replaced a move was Mario's down-b. So they rarely replace moves. This makes Toad's chances even lower lol

How, how does that make him unsuitable? Now I'm just starting to think you're trolling because none of your logic (or lack thereof) has any sort of consistency behind it. Toad having a damaging move in a game about fighting somehow makes him unsuitable?

Because hes basically like wobbuffet in the Smash universe. Duh. Sakurai doesn't seem like a person who likes to change mechanics and physics of a game on a whim. He seems to like things in the game to make sense. He even made note of Pichu's self-damaging everytime it uses electric attacks.

 

[CalumG]

Because hes basically like wobbuffet in the Smash universe. Duh. Sakurai doesn't seem like a person who likes to change mechanics and physics of a game on a whim. He seems to like things in the game to make sense. He even made note of Pichu's self-damaging everytime it uses electric attacks.

I take it Charizard is invincible and can't take damage in Brawl then... you know, since he can't take damage in Smash 64 or Melee?

 

[DarkKry4]

I take it Charizard is invincible and can't take damage in Brawl then... you know, since he can't take damage in Smash 64 or Melee?

Because he wasn't a playable character.