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Toad/Captain Toad for Smash, Toad Brigade Assemble!

thirsty-pocket

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Unfortunately Toad seems to have this weird negative stigma that's been placed on him, I blame those dumb "princess is in another castle" jokes people ran into the ground. And it doesn't help that a lot of people find his voice to be grating ( I like it, it reminds me of the cartoon. I just wish he still had the scrappy speech patterns. ) And most damning is how needlessly mean to Luigi the Toads were written in Mario 64 DS and some of the Mario and Luigi games ( Luigi fans are touchy, and numerous ). Feels like Toad was one of the more popular Mario characters back before the gamecube days, but now it feels like he's become the whipping boy for Mario fans.

That, and I think three games of Toad being a meat shield has probably lowered the expectations for his fans.
 
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YoshiandToad

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Unfortunately Toad seems to have this weird negative stigma that's been placed on him, I blame those dumb "princess is in another castle" jokes people ran into the ground. And it doesn't help that a lot of people find his voice to be grating ( I like it, it reminds me of the cartoon. I just wish he still had the scrappy speech patterns. ) And most damning is how needlessly mean to Luigi the Toads were written in Mario 64 DS and some of the Mario and Luigi games ( Luigi fans are touchy, and numerous ). Feels like Toad was one of the more popular Mario characters back before the gamecube days, but now it feels like he's become the whipping boy for Mario fans.

That, and I think three games of Toad being a meat shield has probably lowered the expectations for his fans.
There definitely became some sort of 'Toad dark age' during he GameCube period;

He was removed from Mario Tennis even though he and Toadette were in the Power Tennis opening on the roster(Wario and Waluigi specifically look at them on the board) and filler like Fly Guy and Parakoopa remained. Utter nonsense.

Toad, although receiving a partner in Toadette for Mario Kart Double Dash was reduced to a secret even though he is one of the seasoned karters replaced in the starter line up by the Baby Mario Bros and Koopa Troopa and Parakoopa for some reason.

In Super Mario Sunshine Toad's role is taken by Toadsworth, and the red spotted Toad is seen wearing a red waistcoat instead of the classic blue. This could have been Captain Toad's humble beginnings but it also was the start of Toad being less about the individual.

As of the Wii U generation though he seems to have regained some popularity with Captain Toad Treasure Tracker, 3D World and the success of the New Super Mario Bros. Multiplayer games proving he has fans. Camelot have even started putting him back in Mario Sports titles(although he should never have been removed to begin with) and even though he's one of the worst Ace's characters competitively, it's good to see Nintendo are realising his popularity is a legitimate thing.
 

SonicMario

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I don't think this was ever shared here. And even if it was, probably still something for the Captain Toad fans to enjoy right about now heh (Thumbnail is a little sketchy but all that's in the video that is a tad questionable a bit of violence and that Toadette. Nothing I don't think breaks too many rules)

 

Scottfrankd

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Toad ( ordinary Toad, not captain ) was my most wanted for Smash 4 ( at least he was my most wanted that didn't get confirmed. Thanks for Little Mac Sakurai!!! ) ...Always considered him one of the most essential Mario characters considering his near perfect attendence, he even had his own game before Captain Toad in Wario's Woods. Not to mention being playable in the most main line Mario games just behind Mario and Luigi. He certainly seemed more deserving than Rosalina and Bowser Junior imo. I even did a little bit of rallying for him on tumblr. Started an ask blog with artwork and everything to raise appreciation ( had to abandon it because it attracted too many weirdos and it stopped being fun. ) But think I have to accept that he's just never going to break free of Peach's moveset... I'm happy that the little guy is actually fighting the good fight with Peach instead of just flailing around as a scared meat shield. Makes me want to try to main Peach again after I abandoned her during Brawl ( for no particular reason )

Captain Toad would be a great consolation prize though... I don't want to count him out of the race because of the New Donk City thing just yet. There's precedent for background characters to still be eligible fighters. People joke about the alphonso thing a lot but I don't see why that's not viable when it's actually a real thing that happened ( not to mention dedede, villager, duck hunt, and donkey kong all being in the background of stages, and power-suit samus being part of Zero Suit Samus's final Smash. )

Add me to the supports.
I'm honestly surprised that Toad, or a Toad, hasn't been represented as a character in Smash. Captain Toad is/was the best chance of that, especially since his bag could have played a unique mechanic. He's also been a playable character in the 2D games and 3D World (Toad, not the Captain necessarily). Heck, you could even have Toadette as an echo fighter - I feel like relegating him to a Peach/Daisy meat shield is just wrong. It doesn't evoke the level of detail in Toads' character that Sakurai likes to go into (since when did Peach shield herself with a Toad in Mario games, and since when did Toad use BAD BREATH to attack?)

I don't think you're wrong about the New Donk City thing. I think if he were to be an assist trophy, he would straight up be debunked. But at the end of the day, the game is still in development, and the screenshots shown for New Donk are based on the development at that time. It's completely possible that Sakurai could remove this element from the stage when introducing Captain Toad as a character. It's not likely, but it's definitely possible.

There definitely became some sort of 'Toad dark age' during he GameCube period;

He was removed from Mario Tennis even though he and Toadette were in the Power Tennis opening on the roster(Wario and Waluigi specifically look at them on the board) and filler like Fly Guy and Parakoopa remained. Utter nonsense.

Toad, although receiving a partner in Toadette for Mario Kart Double Dash was reduced to a secret even though he is one of the seasoned karters replaced in the starter line up by the Baby Mario Bros and Koopa Troopa and Parakoopa for some reason.

In Super Mario Sunshine Toad's role is taken by Toadsworth, and the red spotted Toad is seen wearing a red waistcoat instead of the classic blue. This could have been Captain Toad's humble beginnings but it also was the start of Toad being less about the individual.

As of the Wii U generation though he seems to have regained some popularity with Captain Toad Treasure Tracker, 3D World and the success of the New Super Mario Bros. Multiplayer games proving he has fans. Camelot have even started putting him back in Mario Sports titles(although he should never have been removed to begin with) and even though he's one of the worst Ace's characters competitively, it's good to see Nintendo are realising his popularity is a legitimate thing.
Reading your post about the Gamecube days made me realise something....
Other than all the playable (or unplayable) appearances in the gamecube sports/party games, his decline in use seems to have happened when the multiple Toads became a thing. The moment that you had multi-coloured Toads seems to have killed the original Toad. He ended up becoming a host/tutorial character. Even in 3D World, you don't play as the original Toad, but a blue one instead.

Treasure Tracker and 3D World have definitely done more for him, but I feel like Sunshine and the sports games highlighting that Toads are a species might have tarnished him (and I know Toads have always been a race)

Trying to be careful what I say as I don't want to come off as a Toad racist.....
 
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warelander

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So, appearently Toad isn't fit to be a fighter, but Isabelle of all characters is?

I don't even have anything against Isabelle (though she doesn't excite me at all). but that honestly hit me pretty hard.
 

YoshiandToad

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So, appearently Toad isn't fit to be a fighter, but Isabelle of all characters is?

I don't even have anything against Isabelle (though she doesn't excite me at all). but that honestly hit me pretty hard.
Apparently so. I like Isabelle fine so I'm okay with her getting in. She's definitely a big Nintendo Star these days, which is nice.

BUT ENOUGH ABOUT ISABELLE AND SMASH FOR A SEC; DID YOU SEE NEW SUPER MARIO BROS. DELUXE?!?

Toadette is playable! Toad is for some fugging reason still Yellow Toad(not even blue) but Toadette is in and...she can turn into Peachette?!?

WHAT LORE IS THIS? IS PEACH ACTUALLY A FRICKING TOAD WITH A POWER UP?!?
 

fogbadge

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Apparently so. I like Isabelle fine so I'm okay with her getting in. She's definitely a big Nintendo Star these days, which is nice.

BUT ENOUGH ABOUT ISABELLE AND SMASH FOR A SEC; DID YOU SEE NEW SUPER MARIO BROS. DELUXE?!?

Toadette is playable! Toad is for some fugging reason still Yellow Toad(not even blue) but Toadette is in and...she can turn into Peachette?!?

WHAT LORE IS THIS? IS PEACH ACTUALLY A FRICKING TOAD WITH A POWER UP?!?
i think its more toadette turns into a double of peach

good to see a game with something unique for a toad character
 

warelander

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Toadette actually makes me want to get New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe. Well played Nintendo.
 

CWCPT00

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If anything Toadette being in NSMBU Deluxe only strengthens Captain Toad/Toadette’s chances for DLC in my opinion.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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Apparently so. I like Isabelle fine so I'm okay with her getting in. She's definitely a big Nintendo Star these days, which is nice.

BUT ENOUGH ABOUT ISABELLE AND SMASH FOR A SEC; DID YOU SEE NEW SUPER MARIO BROS. DELUXE?!?

Toadette is playable! Toad is for some fugging reason still Yellow Toad(not even blue) but Toadette is in and...she can turn into Peachette?!?

WHAT LORE IS THIS? IS PEACH ACTUALLY A FRICKING TOAD WITH A POWER UP?!?
For the record, I thought Peach might have been related to the Toads in some way, given she seemed to be the only human in the Mushroom Kingdom (aside the Mario Bros). Her being a straight-up evolved Toad after all is, mindboggling, I will say. :dizzy:

Then again, she had a Toad grandmother in Super Mario RPG, so...
 

SonicMario

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Yeah I kinda felt like that's now going to be a weird implication.

Peach being a playable Toad all along :eek:

I guess this thread's mission was accomplished since Melee after all
 

Arcadenik

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So... what was that, that I saw in New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe?

So... they cut Blue Toad and kept Yellow Toad. Okay.

But they replaced Blue Toad with Toadette. Sounds good.

But Yellow Toad did not get replaced with Captain Toad or at least The Toad (red spots, blue vest). Why?

And somehow Toadette has an unique ability where she transforms into Peach or something? What sorcery is this?!

Was Peach a Toad or a Toadette all along? What?!

Yesterday, I thought Toadette could be an alternate character or Echo Fighter for Toad or Captain Toad.

But after this, I think Toadette could be an unique character who can transform into Peach.

I swear, if Toadette gets in Smash and Toad doesn't... :facepalm:
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Isabelle is also the mascot of the series and a semi-clone here. She does stuff Villager doesn't do, a key focus. The Fishing Rod is one of many things she has that is new. Party Popper is another, something that is heavily associated with her.

Sakurai clearly has not found an idea of how to make Toad stand out, and his bodyshape makes him unfeasible for an Echo at this time. I think he'll get in at some point, but Toad having zero unique known moves(beyond shooting out spores as a defense mechanism) definitely hurts him overall. Keep in mind he's far more active in this game, so he could actually become playable at some point. Of course, we don't know Captain Toad's fate entirely, but it's fair to say he likely is just a stage element.

I want him playable too, btw(moreso the original over the Cap).

To be clear, the issue is Toad doesn't have any moves to 100% call his own right now. If he does, I can't remember any, and they may not be feasible either. You could argue how he does puzzles in Wario's Woods, maybe, and I don't think how he can move or fight is hard to translate to Smash at all. It's just waiting for inspiration to hit.
 

Arcadenik

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She does stuff Villager doesn't do, a key focus.
This! A hundred times this!

That's what I used to suggest for classic Toad a long time ago but the detractors said it's not unique enough.

Neutral Special
Mario = fireballs that act like the red fireballs in Mario Bros. arcade
Luigi = fireballs that act like the green fireballs in Mario Bros. arcade
Dr. Mario = pills
Toad = iceballs from New Super Mario Bros. games

Side Special
Lugi = launches himself
Toad = use the golden mushroom to charge (like you do with mushrooms in Mario Kart games)

Up Special
Peach = parasol that lets her float
Toad = propeller helmet from New Super Mario Bros. Wii that lets him float

Down Special
Peach = pulls out vegetables from Super Mario Bros. 2
Toad = pulls out giant vegetables from Super Mario Advance (to show off his superhuman strength)
 

YoshiandToad

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Also, ignoring New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe and it's weird choice to keep the least liked Toad as the playable one for a sec(seriously, why not just replace with regular?) can I just admire the effort that went into the Online animation.

Toad was kicking some serious ass in those Switch games; scoring points against Bowser and Jr in Aces, taking Jr on one on one in ARMS, and alongside the rest of the SMB2 squad scored a victory over Jr again in Splatoon.

Although it is still painful to see Toad is the only character from the lineup(aside from Lakitu) to not make it to Smash playable status.
 

Propeller Toad

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Now that...was the oddest thing I've seen from the NSMB Deluxe. It's awesome that Toadette is finally a playable character....yet, the whole Peachette gimmick?! o.0 Certainly a strange one, not sure how to feel about this one tbh. Also it's very odd that Blue Toad was removed over the Yellow Toad. Colourscheme differences or not, now that we have Toadette in - surely it would have made more sense to have the traditional Toad appear in (or at least Blue Toad?). Unless it's due to the presence of the NPC Toads that share the same colour pattern as traditional Toad. Despite this, hopefully we can get some colour swaps for Yellow Toad in this case. A step closer to the SMR roster!

Also that Nintendo online advertisement was absolutely adorable. Toad was featured quite prominently and he certainly seems to be enjoying the Switch very enthusiastically. :p Even Blue Toad was there for a brief while as well! Loved seeing Toad vs Bowser Jr along with Toad having a blast alongside Luigi and Mario. ^^

As with Isabelle now getting in, definitely happy for her fans! Though seeing her get in really makes me think that the whole "Sakurai can't think of a moveset" argument is absolutely ridiculous at this point. As long as the character features iconic abilities from its respective games - it can be translated quite well regardless if the fighting comes off as whacky or silly. Still rooting for Captain...it's scary how almost every newcomer so far has been based off the Mii Costumes from Sm4sh!

At least tell me that Peach transforms into Toad for her final smash now that Peachette is a thing.
 
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Albo

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I think the thing about Isabelle getting in is that it's against her character, something keeping Toad/Captain Toad from being Smashers as well. Isabelle is generally docile, clumsy and forgetful, yet still hardworking and diligent. Does any of this scream fighter? Not at all. But, in my opinion, she definitely deserves to be in just based on how much she means to Animal Crossing (though I'm a little iffy on Animal Crossing having two semi-unique reps, but it's no big deal, really.)

That being said, Toad/Captain Toad is the token "underling" of the Mario series, and for the longest time I thought it was that characterization holding them back. I mean, there have definitely been exceptions in the past as well, but something about Isabelle's inclusion feels especially relevant to Toad/Captain Toad...though I can't exactly put my finger on it.

Also rip Blue Toad
 

Propeller Toad

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I think the thing about Isabelle getting in is that it's against her character, something keeping Toad/Captain Toad from being Smashers as well. Isabelle is generally docile, clumsy and forgetful, yet still hardworking and diligent. Does any of this scream fighter? Not at all. But, in my opinion, she definitely deserves to be in just based on how much she means to Animal Crossing (though I'm a little iffy on Animal Crossing having two semi-unique reps, but it's no big deal, really.)

That being said, Toad/Captain Toad is the token "underling" of the Mario series, and for the longest time I thought it was that characterization holding them back. I mean, there have definitely been exceptions in the past as well, but something about Isabelle's inclusion feels especially relevant to Toad/Captain Toad...though I can't exactly put my finger on it.

Also rip Blue Toad
Guess this is Yellow Toad's compensation for SM3DW since Toad did appear exactly like Blue Toad in that game.

https://nintendoeverything.com/wp-c...witch_NewSuperMarioBrosUDeluxe_artwork_01.jpg

Least Yellow Toad looks happy enough. Shame he's not even in the group art that is featured on the boxart of the game. Really do wish it was Toad himself so we can have both Toads journey alongside Mario and Luigi. :<
 

thirsty-pocket

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I think the worst thing about Blue Toad being removed isn't that the slightly more iconic Toad is gone, but it implies that if you have four players, at least one of them has to play as the overpowered Super Guide like characters, Nabbit or Toadette.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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To note, Isabelle, while being a fighter, may seem "OOC", but then one has to realize her characterization is happy-go-lucky instead. This is the one that works the best for her. She's acting like it's a game from what we can see, which would explain why she would ever enter a battle. A contest is fine for her. She's even using an item exclusive to Amiibo Festival(the rubber mallet).

Getting back on-track, I really hope Toad shows up next game or Captain Toad is in this game(Cap is, as noted, not the one I want, but I wasn't a fan of Isabelle at first till the Amiibo Festival information came along. I did a 180). What I want to see is Sakurai come up with a creative thing around the whole "can't jump" thing without simply having a lighter backpack or something super weird like having a bird fly the character up(though using a Cannon to give him air access might feel less tacked on and actually correct). I want something that doesn't feel tacked on/just thrown in but works well and is still balanced. That said, I'm still okay with the idea of him having a worse jump than even Little Mac but a very strong Up B in return and a good ground game as well. There's interesting ways to do it, whether or not Sakurai takes his gimmick of "cannot literally jump" into hefty account or not.
 

warelander

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You know, I am surprised with how Nintendo has been treating Toadette in recent years.

When she first came around, Toadette did make a good amount of appearences in spin offs and even got have a supporting role in the Thousand-Year Door and a cameo in the opening of Galaxy 1, indicating that she was a mainstay...only for her to completely vanish from 2009-2013.

Starting with 2014 Toadette came back and has had a humangous presence in the franchise since then, first there's all the spin offs she appeared in (or will appear, in one case):

Mario Kart 8
Mario Golf World Tour
Mario Tennis Ultra Smash
Mario Tennis Aces
Mario Party 10
Mario Party Star Rush
Mario Party The Top 100
Super Mario Party

Additionally she got a few badges in the Badge Arcade, a Trophy in Smash For Wii U, a skin in Minecraft and a Mystery Suit in Mario Maker.

She also got major supporting roles in Mario & Luigi Paper Jam, Super Mario Odyssey and Mario + Rabbids, and a playable appearence in Super Mario Run. On top of all of that she also got to be the Co-Star of a whole game, via Captain Toad Treasure Tracker and is now essentially being used as one of the main selling points of New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe.

I love Toadette, so I'm obviously happy that I can say all of that and to see her become a Nintendo Star in her own right, but after 5 years of nothing it still surprises me just how much Nintendo has been pushing her since her return.

I wouldn't have it any other way though and I hope Nintendo keeps the trend going.
 

Arcadenik

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Starting with 2014 Toadette came back and has had a humangous presence in the franchise since then, first there's all the spin offs she appeared in (or will appear, in one case):
I mean, even Nintendo calls Toadette "the rising star" in New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe.

Has Nintendo ever called Toad a star?
 

YoshiandToad

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I mean, even Nintendo calls Toadette "the rising star" in New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe.

Has Nintendo ever called Toad a star?
I'm pretty sure I've heard Nintendo refer to Captain Toad as a rising star during Treasure Tracker's initial release. Toad himself isn't a rising star though, he's already undeniably a star.
 

warelander

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I'm pretty sure I've heard Nintendo refer to Captain Toad as a rising star during Treasure Tracker's initial release. Toad himself isn't a rising star though, he's already undeniably a star.
Yeah, Toad is so blatantly one of Nintendo's biggest characters that they don't even need to refer to him as such, it just goes without saying.
 

Arcadenik

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She could be, Peachette could be her Final Smash somehow
Yeah, I can see that happening.

In an ideal world, we would have Captain Toad (with classic Toad alternate costume) AND Toadette (with Peachette Final Smash) as unique newcomers.

Argh! We need to tell Sakurai to remove Toad from Peach's Neutral Special and give her back her old grabs/throws and to do the same to Daisy in the next Smash.
 
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Propeller Toad

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Yeah, I can see that happening.

In an ideal world, we would have Captain Toad (with classic Toad alternate costume) AND Toadette (with Peachette Final Smash) as unique newcomers.

Argh! We need to tell Sakurai to remove Toad from Peach's Neutral Special and give her back her old grabs/throws and to do the same to Daisy in the next Smash.
I still find it odd that she still doesn't have any references to Perry the Parasol from Super Princess Peach. He could certainly be used as a substitute for Toad as a counter and can even pick up enemies in SPP as well.

Gah, where is our playable Toad?
 
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fogbadge

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Yeah, I can see that happening.

In an ideal world, we would have Captain Toad (with classic Toad alternate costume) AND Toadette (with Peachette Final Smash) as unique newcomers.

Argh! We need to tell Sakurai to remove Toad from Peach's Neutral Special and give her back her old grabs/throws and to do the same to Daisy in the next Smash.
or, hear me out on this, we have toad then we have toadette as his echo who can turn into peachette who's peach's echo
 

Arcadenik

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I still find it odd that she still doesn't have any references to Perry the Parasol from Super Princess Peach. He could certainly be used as a substitute for Toad as a counter and can even pick up enemies in SPP as well.
I am sill angry and disappointed that Peach still does not have Perry in her moveset.

That umbrella would have been perfect for her Up Special AND Neutral Special. And it would have freed Toad from Peach's clutches!

I mean, Sakurai even had Super Princess Peach as Peach's Memory on the Smash Blog! Yeah, Sakurai. Yeah, go ahead and remind us Super Princess Peach exists and then NOT include a move from that game. :rolleyes::facepalm:
 

Xebenkeck

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Just throwing this out there, it was kinda sickening to watch that whole direct and see how prominent Toad was throughout it.

It clearly shows to me that nintendo as a whole considers toad a highly important and reconizable character.Yet he is still omitted from smash.

The dixie support thread has in their thread title “the last nintendo all-star.” Dont get me wrong I also believe dixie deserves to be in, but this last direct solidifyed to me THE nintendo all- star still missing is toad.
 
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Arcadenik

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I believe we are getting only two more newcomers for the base game: Ken and Incineroar.

Maybe we can try our luck with DLC.
 

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Just throwing this out there, it was kinda sickening to watch that whole direct and see how prominent Toad was throughout it.

It clearly shows to me that nintendo as a whole considers toad a highly important and reconizable character.Yet he is still omitted from smash.

The dixie support thread has in their thread title “the last nintendo all-star.” Dont get me wrong I also believe dixie deserves to be in, but this last direct solidifyed to me THE nintendo all- star still missing is toad.
This doesn't really help not convince me that Sakurai's just having some opposition against Toad in a playable role at the very worst - or just called him off too early back in SSBU's starting development when choosing characters.

DLC might be Captain's best bet due this now, incase it'll concentrate on more recent characters, if Toad was made to fight better alongside Peach to compensate for his grown popularity.

Maan, do I wish we'd get to be just fake-outed later and Captain Toad being part of New Donk City's scenery is just a ploy to have us fans fooled... :urg:
 
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Arcadenik

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id find that quite disappointing

where are all the incineroar rumours coming from?
Vergeben said there’s a 7th gen Pokemon newcomer but it’s not Decidueye, Lycanroc, or Mimikyu... and one of his sources said Incineroar.
 

fogbadge

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Vergeben said there’s a 7th gen Pokemon newcomer but it’s not Decidueye, Lycanroc, or Mimikyu... and one of his sources said Incineroar.
wasnt he the gut who said there were no zelda newcomers and then said skull kid was in?
 
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