To those 'don't get grabbed' preachers

[Pi]

If you ever, EVER ****ing lose a match playing with 0-death chaingrabs, shoot your self in the face. Because if you expect your opponent not to get grabbed, then I expect you to never lose a match, ever.













ever.

 

[Finch]

Don't be angry because you're bad. Not getting grabbed is advice for really good players. Eventually you'll learn how to avoid it and laugh at mediocre IC players. I mean, you play samus.

 

[DanGR]

even the best get grabbed...

 

[Lord Aether]

Except if it's Ness/Lucas vs Marth or someone vs Ice Climbers then you keep your distance/spacing so you won't get grabbed. If you do get grabbed, that's your own fault.
Yes, I will expect to get grabbed. But I won't whine about it; I'll try my best to avoid getting into said situations.

 

[ADHD]

Isn't the timing different for each character? Couldn't you main a low tier so you wouldn't have to worry so much?

 

[LaserBust]

Isn't the timing different for each character? Couldn't you main a low tier so you wouldn't have to worry so much?

Its more like > Diffrent timing 4 ea. weight class. Example - Lucas and Ness have very similar, if not the same timing. Besides, a true IC pratices vs. EVERY char, not jus the top tiers..

Anyway, avoiding the grab is hard, obviously, but its possible. It forces u into a defensive playstyle, which alot of players just dont want 2 do. If u cant completly avoid the grab, then just keep Nana away from the action, which is ALOT eaiser.

Then again, I havent fought a IC as good as me.. which is sad, we need more ICs!!!!!

Lol Kniht, u spend more time here than in the Samus boards. Lol, and like some1 else said, u main Samus, u should b like, the Ownager of Spacing.

 

[KRDsonic]

Never run up to an Ice Climber user if Nana is next to them, that's all there is to it. It's not really that hard, and I've battled people that were extremely hard to grab, I could grab them a couple of times, and that's where I built most of the dammage up on them, but if you complain about the Ice Climber's grab combos because you don't learn not to get grabbed all the time then you might as well complain about getting spiked because you stayed in their spiking range and didn't bother to dodge, it's not that much different.

/oppinion.

 

[ADHD]

Never run up to an Ice Climber user if Nana is next to them, that's all there is to it. It's not really that hard, and I've battled people that were extremely hard to grab, I could grab them a couple of times, and that's where I built most of the dammage up on them, but if you complain about the Ice Climber's grab combos because you don't learn not to get grabbed all the time then you might as well complain about getting spiked because you stayed in their spiking range and didn't bother to dodge, it's not that much different.

/oppinion.

Yeah, what he said, *****!

 

[Pi]

As if the game wasn't reduced to camping enough already.

You guys seriously want to reduce your matches to camping? That ****'s always going to end up in sudden death, and bombs, eventually.

If that's the way you really wanna play then go for it, I'll camp if you're gonna be cheap.

 

[Atlantis]

So using grabs is cheap now....i guess smashing is also cheap, and so is using specials...so the only way to not be cheap is by standing there doing nothing and letting the game decide who wins?!?!? nice going guy

 

[surrepGuy]

On an unrelated note...knihT's sig bugs me for calling marth a girl

 

[Pi]

So using grabs is cheap now....i guess smashing is also cheap, and so is using specials...so the only way to not be cheap is by standing there doing nothing and letting the game decide who wins?!?!? nice going guy

Way to be an ignorant ****, really.

I was speaking of 0-death chain grabs, I even mention it in the first post, you illiterate *******.



@Side note

Hand on hip.
Tiara.
Fluffy clothing.

Simple things he could change to avoid. I think I'll make a new sig, though, one bashing ice climbers. Especially if the 0-death CG's aren't banned in tournies I attend.

 

[goodoldganon]

I kind of agree. I'm not gonna lie if Ganondorf had a few 0-death combos, grabs, etc. then I wouldn't want them banned either. Yes, I know it takes loads of practice for you to master 0-death grabs but you don't think it took loads of practice for someone to get good with their character? Only to be negated because he made one slip up or because Brawl totally favors people who play the defensive?

I'm on the fence about the whole 'banning the ICs infinites' because it is not like they are the only people with infinites. We would need to ban D3s, Marth's, as well as whatever other infinite this game has.

In the end, I don't care what happens with the infinites. Brawl just isn't that appealing as a 1v1 fighter. It's a great FFA game and that is really about it.

 

[KRDsonic]

As if the game wasn't reduced to camping enough already.

You guys seriously want to reduce your matches to camping? That ****'s always going to end up in sudden death, and bombs, eventually.

If that's the way you really wanna play then go for it, I'll camp if you're gonna be cheap.

since when did anyone say anything about a timed match? >.>

 

[Elliot Gale]

It's funny how you seem to think that a zero-death is always going to happen from a single grab. NEWSFLASH: IT ISN'T! In theory, Melee Fox can never, ever be hit because he can beat every single move in the game with a perfectly timed shine. This is the same thing. Humans are not that accurate or consistent. The ICs have horrible grab range. The ICs need to have both around (It's still just as easy to kill Nana) to even think about grab combos. ALL characters are capable of spacing correctly against them. They have very predictable and gimpable recovery (Still!). Their air game is still very lackluster.

I could go on, but the point is, the Ice Climbers have a great deal of flaws and are far from the best in the game. The same is true in Melee, where they have a MUCH easier infinite that works the exact same way on EVERY character, not to mention that it's easier to grab in Melee because of the WD option. Broken? No! They aren't even top tier! And they probably won't be in Brawl either. There is no cause to go up in arms over a character that isn't even dominating the game.

 

[Pi]

since when did anyone say anything about a timed match? >.>

3 stock 8 minute matches are the norm.

It's funny how you seem to think that a zero-death is always going to happen from a single grab. NEWSFLASH: IT ISN'T! In theory, Melee Fox can never, ever be hit because he can beat every single move in the game with a perfectly timed shine. This is the same thing. Humans are not that accurate or consistent. The ICs have horrible grab range. The ICs need to have both around (It's still just as easy to kill Nana) to even think about grab combos. ALL characters are capable of spacing correctly against them. They have very predictable and gimpable recovery (Still!). Their air game is still very lackluster.

I could go on, but the point is, the Ice Climbers have a great deal of flaws and are far from the best in the game. The same is true in Melee, where they have a MUCH easier infinite that works the exact same way on EVERY character, not to mention that it's easier to grab in Melee because of the WD option. Broken? No! They aren't even top tier! And they probably won't be in Brawl either. There is no cause to go up in arms over a character that isn't even dominating the game.

You're acting like this is out of the realm of possibilities, it is not.

Don't compare it to foxes shine, it doesn't require the same amount of mind games.

Humans may not be that accurate, and maybe not that consistent, but if you're really 'play to win' what the **** are you going to practice other than 0-death chain grabs?

This isn't melee, these matches last longer, this is proved in the lower stock. This means more opportunities for grabbing, which you all seem to think is hard to do. Watch some of Ken's matches (melee) vs. fast falling characters, how often does he use Marth's chain grab? So much it's frustrating to watch. Albeit Marth had a big grab range, and wavedash, but when you're trying to defend your argument by saying fox could shine perfectly this is valid.

You all sit around pointing out the flaws in the character, arguing stuff that would hold no merit if the ice climber was even half decent. It's fine and dandy to assume that the IC player in question is mediocre at best, and the only claim to fame he holds is perfect CG, but that's not the case.

What happens when we have evenly matched players? Hm? What happens when the IC player isn't an incompetent moron? What happens when the opponent has 30+ % and the IC's are both still there and he get's grabbed? He's dead.

Now, say the IC's do mess up, worse case scenario the other player just logged 30+%, and the IC's are no worse for the wear. With an even larger window for a Grab - Death combo.

Don't argue tiers with me, tiers are bull ****. Know how tiers are made (here)? Because the winner of some tourney in California used the character, and coincidently the same character won a few other tournaments, there's your top tier.

 

[Finch]

Don't compare it to foxes shine, it doesn't require the same amount of mind games.

hilarious. Play ice climbers and try to grab a good player while popo and nana are synced. I'm sure it will be just as easy as you think it is. In melee ICs had wavedashing and chu still had problems getting grabs off because everyone he played knew one grab meant death and played the whole match keeping the icys separated and avoiding their grabs. It's not that hard. Stop *****ing scrub.

 

[Pi]

hilarious. Play ice climbers and try to grab a good player while popo and nana are synced. I'm sure it will be just as easy as you think it is. In melee ICs had wavedashing and chu still had problems getting grabs off because everyone he played knew one grab meant death and played the whole match keeping the icys separated and avoiding their grabs. It's not that hard. Stop *****ing scrub.

Yea because perfectly predicting your opponent and perfectly timing shines is a good example of the difficulty of grabbing in brawl. You're ****ing ********, if you have problems grabbing your opponents then I'd be weary of throwing the word 'scrub' around.

 

[Gray]

Grabbing in Brawl is so much easier because of the lower shieldstun and lack of l cancelling... I didn't know they actually still have something beyond a small chaingrab though.

 

[Kitamerby]

Humans may not be that accurate, and maybe not that consistent, but if you're really 'play to win' what the **** are you going to practice other than 0-death chain grabs?

...Desynchs! :D

You all sit around pointing out the flaws in the character, arguing stuff that would hold no merit if the ice climber was even half decent. It's fine and dandy to assume that the IC player in question is mediocre at best, and the only claim to fame he holds is perfect CG, but that's not the case.

Actually, half-decent IC's aren't always able to chaingrab. IC does have other merits as well which new users try to exploit until they're able to use basic grab combos, such as basic desynch combos, simple grab finishers, and the single-IC chaingrab which doesn't last too long. IC's require an extremely high learning curve not only for the chaingrabs, which in itself is extremely difficult to do without rigorous hours upon hours upon hours of practice on each weight class or character, but for the other, more complicated movements that the IC's are capable of via desynching, as well as having to block six-frames earlier than you normally should to keep Nana safe. I personally take offense to that notion that all half-decent or mediocre IC players can chaingrab from 0-Death. D:

What happens when we have evenly matched players? Hm? What happens when the IC player isn't an incompetent moron? What happens when the opponent has 30+ % and the IC's are both still there and he get's grabbed? He's dead.

Now, say the IC's do mess up, worse case scenario the other player just logged 30+%, and the IC's are no worse for the wear. With an even larger window for a Grab - Death combo.

Here's a puzzler. Luigi can KO anyone at 40-60% depending on weight with a FJP, and I believe his dair spike can KO even lower if spiked. Ness can sweetspot his PK Thunder 2 to KO at 40%. Dedede can KO around 40% with an UNCHARGED Fsmash when sweetspotted. Ganondorf can KO around 40-60% as well with his Warlock Punch. Ganondorf's Thunder Drop (dair) can spike ANYONE to death at almost ANY percentage. Ike's Fsmash is insanely strong. Jigglypuff's Rollout can KO at very low percents. Kirby can KO at 0% via a Kirbycide. I believe Zelda's dair when sweetspotted will spike KO anyone at a VERY VERY VERY low percent. Diddy Kong's DiddyHump can KO at very low percentages if hit in the air and footstooled. Falcon Punch. Melee Jigglypuff could KO from almost ANY percent with Rest. There are MANY MANY MANY brawl characters with moves that can be considered "cheap" and will kill at ridiculously low percents. A great deal of these moves require MUCH less skill and timing than the IC grab, so why aren't you going around and scolding them for using their tactics? Why not go complain to the Marths for chaingrabbing poor Lucas? Why not go complain to the Dededes for chaingrabbing almost everyone? Howabout Ganon and that god**** Spike? Eh? Eh? Eh?

But seriously, if they're evenly matched, and they're both playing to win, won't it normally go to the person who decides to use the better strategy anyways? Poor Lucas can still beat Marth if he knows to stay out of his grab range. Poor poor Ness can still beat Squirtle if he simply gets out of his grab range. And poor, poor, poor DK can still beat the **** out of Ice Climbers if he simply stays away from the IC grab range and beats the crap out of them like normal.

 

[Elliot Gale]

It is very, very easy to outspace their grab range. It is very, very easy to use aerials that don't lag to the point where they can shield into a dashgrab. It is very, very easy to stop any of the Ice Climbers' approaches. Characters with fast, lagless moves (read: Nearly every character in the game has at least a few) are exceptionally hard to grab with a dashgrab or even a dashing shieldgrab. Meta Knight, among others, is almost pure hell. The fact that the Ice Climbers CAN still do 0-deaths at all is a saving grace.

 

[Crooked Crow]

Don't argue tiers with me, tiers are bull ****. Know how tiers are made (here)? Because the winner of some tourney in California used the character, and coincidently the same character won a few other tournaments, there's your top tier.

*sigh* I was actually with you in this argument before you said that. Tiers aren't bull**** or something you prove to be existent or non-existent. They are STATISTICS. Obviously, there is some correlation between tournament results and the characters used.

I agree with you in the "don't get grabbed" debate. Not getting grabbed for an entire match is pretty much impossible against anyone who knows how to play this game. Standard approaches are very easily punishable so you would be limited to camping, which is pretty lame.

Separating the IC's isn't too hard to do, thankfully. Just focus on doing that the whole match if camping doesn't suit you.

On that Fox and his shine part in Melee.. Really, I don't see what you mean by "mindgames" for it. The Shine wasn't punishable because it was easy to cancel so you could just spam it. It's versatile so you could use it in a lot of situations. This chaingrab at least makes you have to have some kind of techskill. <_< Plus, you would need both ICs to perform it. Missing a grab can leave you open for punishment and if all ICs do is try to grab you all match, it just leaves them open for punishment, and makes them more predictable.

 

[Pi]

...Desynchs! :D



Actually, half-decent IC's aren't always able to chaingrab. IC does have other merits as well which new users try to exploit until they're able to use basic grab combos, such as basic desynch combos, simple grab finishers, and the single-IC chaingrab which doesn't last too long. IC's require an extremely high learning curve not only for the chaingrabs, which in itself is extremely difficult to do without rigorous hours upon hours upon hours of practice on each weight class or character, but for the other, more complicated movements that the IC's are capable of via desynching, as well as having to block six-frames earlier than you normally should to keep Nana safe. I personally take offense to that notion that all half-decent or mediocre IC players can chaingrab from 0-Death. D:

I didn't mean to imply that any half decent IC could chaingrab, I ment to say that aside from the chaingrab everyone seems to be assuming that the IC player sucks, which is not the case.

Here's a puzzler. Luigi can KO anyone at 40-60% depending on weight with a FJP, and I believe his dair spike can KO even lower if spiked. Ness can sweetspot his PK Thunder 2 to KO at 40%. Dedede can KO around 40% with an UNCHARGED Fsmash when sweetspotted. Ganondorf can KO around 40-60% as well with his Warlock Punch. Ganondorf's Thunder Drop (dair) can spike ANYONE to death at almost ANY percentage. Ike's Fsmash is insanely strong. Jigglypuff's Rollout can KO at very low percents. Kirby can KO at 0% via a Kirbycide. I believe Zelda's dair when sweetspotted will spike KO anyone at a VERY VERY VERY low percent. Diddy Kong's DiddyHump can KO at very low percentages if hit in the air and footstooled. Falcon Punch. Melee Jigglypuff could KO from almost ANY percent with Rest. There are MANY MANY MANY brawl characters with moves that can be considered "cheap" and will kill at ridiculously low percents. A great deal of these moves require MUCH less skill and timing than the IC grab, so why aren't you going around and scolding them for using their tactics? Why not go complain to the Marths for chaingrabbing poor Lucas? Why not go complain to the Dededes for chaingrabbing almost everyone? Howabout Ganon and that god**** Spike? Eh? Eh? Eh?

Ike, D3, Ganondorf are all too slow to be used as arguments. Until they fine reliable combo's in order to land these power moves off I won't be *****ing about them. Luigi can KO at 40%+ but he has to get there first, and if he misses he should have ~40% himself, and his UB is easily punishable. Rollout is a joke, there's no excuse for getting hit by that, hang off the edge, shield, you shouldn't be in close proximity anyway. Kirbycide, Dedecide, Ganoncide all cost you a life. And I like all the 'if's you throw around with the other arguments. You can break down any move you want and declare why it's cheap if you throw enough if's in with it. But we're not talking about a situational attack that may or may not work, and if it doesn't work you're gonna get punished, we're talking about giving your opponent 20/30 damage minimum, death maximum, from any %. Not to mention this works against all characters.

But seriously, if they're evenly matched, and they're both playing to win, won't it normally go to the person who decides to use the better strategy anyways? Poor Lucas can still beat Marth if he knows to stay out of his grab range. Poor poor Ness can still beat Squirtle if he simply gets out of his grab range. And poor, poor, poor DK can still beat the **** out of Ice Climbers if he simply stays away from the IC grab range and beats the crap out of them like normal.

If they're evenly matched, then they're gonna get grabbed. What are you trying to say? Don't get grabbed?

It is very, very easy to outspace their grab range. It is very, very easy to use aerials that don't lag to the point where they can shield into a dashgrab. It is very, very easy to stop any of the Ice Climbers' approaches. Characters with fast, lagless moves (read: Nearly every character in the game has at least a few) are exceptionally hard to grab with a dashgrab or even a dashing shieldgrab. Meta Knight, among others, is almost pure hell. The fact that the Ice Climbers CAN still do 0-deaths at all is a saving grace.

IC's being played by who? An infant? The way you speak you'd have us all believe the IC's were the worse characters in the ****in game. The way you talk about spacing you make it sound incredibly easy. Here you are, once again, diminishing the CG and the ability to set it up, and embellishing everything needed to be done to avoid it. Stop it.

*sigh* I was actually with you in this argument before you said that. Tiers aren't bull**** or something you prove to be existent or non-existent. They are STATISTICS. Obviously, there is some correlation between tournament results and the characters used.

Some correlation, but not all. The way tiers are put together is nonsense. Take the tourney results from the tournaments, find the winning characters, and put them at the top? Might as well just find the winning players and make tier lists out of them.

I agree with you in the "don't get grabbed" debate. Not getting grabbed for an entire match is pretty much impossible against anyone who knows how to play this game. Standard approaches are very easily punishable so you would be limited to camping, which is pretty lame.

Separating the IC's isn't too hard to do, thankfully. Just focus on doing that the whole match if camping doesn't suit you.

On that Fox and his shine part in Melee.. Really, I don't see what you mean by "mindgames" for it. The Shine wasn't punishable because it was easy to cancel so you could just spam it. It's versatile so you could use it in a lot of situations. This chaingrab at least makes you have to have some kind of techskill. <_< Plus, you would need both ICs to perform it. Missing a grab can leave you open for punishment and if all ICs do is try to grab you all match, it just leaves them open for punishment, and makes them more predictable.

I was talking about mindgames because he said to me that in melee, fox could cancel every attack with a perfectly timed shine. That would involve 100% understanding of foxes shine, frame data for every move being used, and complete prediction of your opponent. There's your tech skill and mindgames right there.

Grabbing all game may make them predictable, but what are you going to punish them with? A jab combo? And what's the chances of you going through a whole match jab comboing without getting grabbed 3 times?

 

[Finch]

I'm sorry you try to beat the ice climbers by attacking with badly spaced laggy aerials. Perhaps you should try actually spacing **** and running away from them? They're slow and light and get owned by projectiles. Just kill off nana and that stock is pretty much assured. Seriously samus should own them. They really can't do anything against a good missle spam, and even if they can nana will probably get hit anyway because she is ********.

 

[Pi]

I'm sorry you try to beat the ice climbers by attacking with badly spaced laggy aerials. Perhaps you should try actually spacing **** and running away from them? They're slow and light and get owned by projectiles. Just kill off nana and that stock is pretty much assured. Seriously samus should own them. They really can't do anything against a good missle spam, and even if they can nana will probably get hit anyway because she is ********.

I've not been beat by ice-climbers, I don't have any to face IRL. And the CG's don't seem to be applicable online.

I made this thread on the basis that these CG's actually are viable to get the kills, and you really expect people to 'not get grabbed', and want to draw out your matches to sudden death death by bombs.

I made this thread because camping matches are not fun. So **** you guys for forcing them.

 

[Chronopath]

So we can't 0 death chaingrab right? Can we chaingrab you to 200% and then let you go? I'm very against banning legitimate techniques. After you ban chaingrabs, will you get all pissy about desynching because it's like playing a 2v1? What about iceblock-locking? Or laser-locking? Or chaingrabs that only work to a certain %?

Edit: And newsflash. Theres more to the Ice Climbers than ****ing camping and chaingrabs...

 

[Pi]

So we can't 0 death chaingrab right? Can we chaingrab you to 200% and then let you go? I'm very against banning legitimate techniques. After you ban chaingrabs, will you get all pissy about desynching because it's like playing a 2v1? What about iceblock-locking? Or laser-locking? Or chaingrabs that only work to a certain %?

Edit: And newsflash. Theres more to the Ice Climbers than ****ing camping and chaingrabs...

Tell your fellow IC's that. They seem to think the IC's suck and that they need the CG to be viable in tourney play.


How the hell aren't you getting this? 0-death CG's are broken. There should be no move that allows death at any %. How can you possibly disagree? Because it requires practice? So does every ****ing thing else, but those things don't guarantee a stock!

You're arguments are so ********, how bout you stay on topic and stop trying to say that I want every move that's even a little cheap banned. Laser locking is extremely situational, and racks up maybe 20% damage. Desynching? Seriously? Shut up. Chain grabs that only work to a certain %, well hell, let's look at the difference here. With THOSE you get ~20%, and after that you get to attack again. With the IC's CG, you die. Hmmmmmmmmmm

 

[KRDsonic]

I've not been beat by ice-climbers, I don't have any to face IRL. And the CG's don't seem to be applicable online.

I made this thread on the basis that these CG's actually are viable to get the kills, and you really expect people to 'not get grabbed', and want to draw out your matches to sudden death death by bombs.

I made this thread because camping matches are not fun. So **** you guys for forcing them.

I can do their chain grabs on wifi... though the lag makes it harder to do...

And you don't have to camp to beat Ice Climbers, camping is a BAD idea against them because you give them all the time in the world to get desynced, and unlike Marth and Meta Knight, they have a projectile. Just keep Nana away from Popo and you'll be ok, it's that simple. If the Ice Climber chain grabs were as broken and it was as easy to grab as you say it is, then you would always see Ice Climber users winning all of the tournaments, and that is definently not the case.

And like someone said, try using Ice Climbers yourself and getting in grabs against someone who knows how to fight them and you'll see that unless you dedicate the whole match to trying to get a grab (and even then), you won't get off a grab, and if you do, Nana will be either at the other side of the stage or will be dead.

 

[DippnDots]

Listen, when a pro tells you to "not get grabbed" they aren't making fun of you or trying to make you look like a fool. It IS perfect advice. Obviously, you don't want to get grabbed. It's a piece of advice that is meant to force YOU TO THINK ON YOUR OWN and figure out ways to not get grabbed. Understand that the game is all about getting in your opponents head, seeing what they're about to do, and then acting in the best course of action, whether it be offense or defense. If someone grabs you a lot, it means there is a flaw in YOUR PLAYING STYLE that they see and can abuse. YOU need to figure out what that flaw is and fix it on YOUR OWN ACCORD because that is how YOU improve at this game.

We can point you down the right path, but expecting us to hold your hand is ridiculous.

Anything in caps is important to notice, I don't mean to look angry anything.

 

[Pi]

I can do their chain grabs on wifi... though the lag makes it harder to do...

And you don't have to camp to beat Ice Climbers, camping is a BAD idea against them because you give them all the time in the world to get desynced, and unlike Marth and Meta Knight, they have a projectile. Just keep Nana away from Popo and you'll be ok, it's that simple. If the Ice Climber chain grabs were as broken and it was as easy to grab as you say it is, then you would always see Ice Climber users winning all of the tournaments, and that is definently not the case.

And like someone said, try using Ice Climbers yourself and getting in grabs against someone who knows how to fight them and you'll see that unless you dedicate the whole match to trying to get a grab (and even then), you won't get off a grab, and if you do, Nana will be either at the other side of the stage or will be dead.

Hylian won a big tourney with the IC's.

You would only see IC's winning tournaments if the player using them was good.

Camping implies sending a barrage of projectiles at them, so I don't see how this would help in giving them time to desync if they keep having to eat or shield projectiles.

And I don't see how melee is a better option, any Ariel attack can be easily shield grabbed unless you end up behind them in which case you can maybe get off a forward tilt on one of them. If you land in front you're eating 30/40% damage.

And I'd love to test out IC's against a half decent opponent, but few of my friends are half decent. The next time I go over to my good friends house I will test it. But I don't see how it could be harder than getting grabs off with samus. Despite the range of her grapple, it's still slow, and I've had plenty of opportunities to shield grab, pretty much every time I could UB out of shield, it could have been a grab.

Listen, when a pro tells you to "not get grabbed" they aren't making fun of you or trying to make you look like a fool. It IS perfect advice. Obviously, you don't want to get grabbed. It's a piece of advice that is meant to force YOU TO THINK ON YOUR OWN and figure out ways to not get grabbed. Understand that the game is all about getting in your opponents head, seeing what they're about to do, and then acting in the best course of action, whether it be offense or defense. If someone grabs you a lot, it means there is a flaw in YOUR PLAYING STYLE that they see and can abuse. YOU need to figure out what that flaw is and fix it on YOUR OWN ACCORD because that is how YOU improve at this game.

We can point you down the right path, but expecting us to hold your hand is ridiculous.

Anything in caps is important to notice, I don't mean to look angry anything.

Yes I understand that, it's along the same advice as 'don't get hit', but it's a poor argument in this game. Because as one of you said

Humans are not that accurate or consistent.

I understand and completely agree that we should all strive to be perfect. But that would reduce Samus players to using Zair. And only Zair because it has no landing lag, and comes out fast.

We can't change the physics of the game, any time you melee someone you have a chance to get grabbed, a chance to be PS'd, or air dodge, or side stepped.

In order to 'not get hit' and 'not get grabbed' our matches would have to be brought down to camping, even more so.

 

[DippnDots]

It's not an argument, it's a piece of advice. Look at it from a good person's perspective. Some scrub with an 08 join date starts *****ing about grabs. People who have been playing smash for a long *** time and have DEDICATED much time and effort to learning how to get around grabs are naturally going to disagree with your complaints. If they can get around grabs, so can you. You just need to put more time and effort into the game, instead of *****ing about taking a very essential part of tourney play out of the equation.

That's the way it is, there is nothing to argue.

PS, just because half of the people on these boards are idiots, I have to include the statement that scrub is NOT an insult.

Edit: Your sig is either A: Stupid or B: A fail at satire

 

[Finch]

His sig is stupid. And he's a complete moron who's complaining about something he has never experienced. If you have never played against an ice climbers player then you have absolutely no ****ing idea what you're talking about. Getting a synced grab with them is hard, even in brawl. FL HAS WAY TOO MANY JOHNERS RIGHT NOW JUST GO AWAY.

 

[Pi]

I hope to god you're not basing your ******** opinions off my join date. My first account on this site was back in '03 or something, and I've had the game since 01 or 02. I played melee, and was decent. So please take your assumptions and put them the same place you'd have me put mine if you'd please.

A complete moron huh? So what are you trying to say? It's impossible to grab your opponent? That spacing and camping are not only easy, but to be done perfectly? While in the same sentence you say the CG is nigh impossible?

What the hell are you people even arguing any more?

Is the CG viable?
Are 0-death combo's in the realm of possibilities?
Will an experienced IC player, with nana and popo set up correctly, get the kill if he can get the grab?
Do you really believe that it's possible for two players with relatively the same skill level can go a whole match without getting grabbed?


Do you even realize what the hell you're suggesting with your don't get grabbed ****? You really wanna turn the game into that? Well I'm only 1 person, so I can't stop you. So if you wanna sit there in denial then be my guest, really. If you need to tell yourself that it's possible for your opponent to not get grabbed yet still melee you, really, that's on you.


And a John is an excuse for why you lost, isn't it? I haven't used any.

 

[Elliot Gale]

Is the CG viable?
Are 0-death combo's in the realm of possibilities?
Will an experienced IC player, with nana and popo set up correctly, get the kill if he can get the grab?
Do you really believe that it's possible for two players with relatively the same skill level can go a whole match without getting grabbed?
.

Yes.

Yes.

A percentage of the time that is far from 100%.

YES. Even if they DO get grabbed from time to time, there's no guarantee that it's death, and it shouldn't be game over even if it DOES happen once.


The point is that you're gunning to ban one of the few things that actually makes the Ice Climbers a viable character at all. Without the infinite, they are a completely gimped character.

Besides, Brawl is and will always be a slow, defensive game regardless of how much you or anyone else doesn't want it to be.

 

[KRDsonic]

Hylian won a big tourney with the IC's.

You would only see IC's winning tournaments if the player using them was good.

So one person winning one non-MLG tournament who just happened to have a Mr. Game & Watch main and Ice Climbers as a side character instantly makes Ice Climbers broken? He mostly used Mr. Game & Watch in that tournament, and he got quite a few good matchups, like fighting a falco main in the finals, and falco is one of the easiest people to chain grab.

Yes, I too beat a few people in that tournament because of their chain grabs, but the people that actually knew what they were doing weren't giving me a chance to grab. Xyro, who used samus, was smart and banned FD in our round from me so I couldn't chain grab as well because he would always have a platform to go to, he also used his missiles and his graple in the air to keep me away, yeah I did grab him a few times in that match, but each time I got to, he had nana half way across the stage. When I battled G@be, he kept me at a distance as much as he could with his Mr. Game & Watch, and ended up knocking me out of the tournament.

Now people like Angel who didn't attempt to keep me away much with his Pokemon Trainer with the exception of projectiles and shellshifting, wasn't too hard to grab, so I was able to get a lot of kills against him with my finnishing grabs.

Chain grabs are not broken though. Now while I never saw Hylian there at the tournament (or if I did, I didn't know because I don't know what he looks like), I did notice that everyone was over prepared to fight Ice Climbers. People kept giving my opponents advise on how to fight Ice Climbers as soon as they would see me pick them because people worry about them more than they should. Most people don't even want to spend countless hours learning how to use them, and I saw that because from what I saw in the tournament, Hylian and I were the only two Ice Climber users there. People like Meta Knight, who I saw a lot, were getting lots of kills by knocking the opponents to their doom by using their Up B when the opponent was by a ledge, which is way easier than attempting a 0% kill with the Ice Climber's grab combos. Ice Climbers aren't the only characters that can kill at 0%, they're just the ones you notice much because it takes a lot longer for them to perform.

 

[Tenki]

And the CG's don't seem to be applicable online.

Oh, they are. I have Cable connection, so if the person I'm playing with also has a high-speed connection, lag is barely, if at all, noticeable.

The first time I met an IC user online, I got CG'd and my GC controller's ctrl stick finally succumbed to (GC Mario Party/old age/Ice Climbers) abuse.

Now if I smash, it continues to walk in that direction.

So now I have to use wii-chuck.

I love IC's very much. Thank you.

 

[DippnDots]

I'm basing my opinion of you off the invalidity of your arguments is all, and you have yet to convince me otherwise.

 

[Pi]

My argument is that 'don't get grabbed' is a stupid thing to expect from your opponent. And that I don't think it's very fun to reduce your matches to a camping fest.

I keep hearing this over and over, that the ice climbers as a character suck. Do you really believe so?

You say many people don't want to spend the time and effort to get good at chain grabs, that's not something worth saying because I'm not talking about those people, I'm talking about the 'play to win' people who will spend the amount of time needed to perfect the CG.

I also keep hearing all these ways to avoid getting CG'd, or grabbed in general, which is good info, I'll remember it, but how about the ways to set up a grab? Are there none? Do you rely on your opponent to mess up? Or rely on luck?

You say it's viable, but that an expert IC player gets the kill off of a grab less than 50% of the time. I don't understand. If it's possible, it can be perfected, can't it? Are you telling me that no matter how much time is dedicated to learning the CG, that no amount of practice can get you the grab? That it all comes down to luck? None of it is skill?

Maybe the problem isn't that the IC's suck as a character (excluding CG)
Maybe the problem isn't that your opponents have good spacing and are able to get nana away from popo.

Perhaps it's too early in the game to be making these assumptions. But I don't think the IC are as bad as you say, and I don't think grabs are as hard to pull off as you would have me believe. I don't plan on using the CG as a john, ever, I don't john. But from what I can tell, the IC's have the potential to be the best character. But since I can't seem to convince you of it, and you all still insist that grabbing is easy to avoid, I'll lay off and let things play out for themselves. I expect that in the future, these 0-death CG's will be banned, because some IC player has perfected them.


I still think 'don't get grabbed' is a dumb thing to expect from your opponent.


Also, if any of you would like to Vs. me online, PM me, I'd like to see how I stack up against good IC players.

 

[Straylit]

My argument is that 'don't get grabbed' is a stupid thing to expect from your opponent.

Try not to take it literally. "Dont get grabbed" is simply a be-all-end-all comment to say to individuals like yourself that insist on bching about the IC's ability to chain grab. Because as you can see these conversations go absolutely nowhere rack up pages and pages of 'pointless' arguing for and against CG's. It never solves a thing, its all been said before. So quit being a little pud about it and learn to Not Get Grabbed.

 

[BDawgPHD]

Of course everyone gets grabbed at some point, but the ICs are built around grabs...they can fight without them, and they can force them sometimes, but a player should know the ICs game and work on a way to counter it.