Time Travelers - Town wins! Time travel mechanics rarely used!

[Nicholas1024]

Nabe, I was referring to your near lynch at the end of D1 and PLSD's suicide (which mega-incriminated you) as far as what my pressure achieved. The endgame team was more or less you, SK, vote blocked Ran, and two of your handpicked allies (who luckily figured it out).

 

[Gova]

No, because I had a feeling that the poison wouldn't kill.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I see Ryker's not going to take up my challenge but instead throw pot shots at me wherever possible. Whatever.

Your case was not persuasive enough to get him lynched. No one was pushing him because of what you did.

What you accomplished was tunneling and managing to make me, and others, second guess a town read they had on you. If this is the best your playstyle has to offer, then you're bad.

And, oh my god, the excuses you were making for Fire Emblem. And the comment of "If Frozenflame played like this, you wouldn't call him out." I had it from my hydra partner that you were ******** in Fire Emblem and managed to be saved from a lynch by your claim which then allowed the town's most powerful role to be a complete non-factor. No player makes it to a position like the one you were describing without messing up, but you continued placing the blame anywhere but on your shoulders. Man up. I will tell you right now that my worst game was EASILY Superheroes mafia where Nabe played me in LyLo after managing to keep me from lynching his scummate for the entire game. Good game to Nabe, but it was MY fault. You know what, I learned from that. I learned that the simplest solution is often the obvious one. Take this one for example. I wasn't going to have some ridiculous poisoner from beyond the game mechanics no matter who was spinning the tale. I also learned that having weaker ammunition loaded with the strong stuff detracts from your case because it can then be strawmanned whether or not they respond to all of it. That's a big reason that I couldn't get Circus lynched. I also learned how NOT to deal with private communication that involves town and scum. You don't take nearly as much away from a game that you don't recognize your mistakes in and your attempts to justify your bad play there with saying that "OS even said he played the town" make me sick to look at, same as any excuse I hear from a number of other players I could mention.

I wouldn't call Frozenflame out for play like that because he wouldn't play like that. Good players look as scummy as they want to look, and I managed to hover at that spot just outside of the lynch pool which is exactly where I wanted to be. Good players aren't forced to claim on Day 1. Good players generally aren't forced to claim as town at all.

I feel I'm far and away better than you at this game with no offense meant by it. I honestly believe that I'm the best player I've ever seen play this game. There may be someone better than me, but I haven't met him.

Were my reads right this game? No. Not at all. I only salvaged it at the end through PoE. Did I have more of an impact on this game than you? Certainly.

You continue to take pot shots at me for my ego? I think it's something that I've earned the right to boast about and I'll continue despite other people's opinions on the matter.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Ryker, here's the final proof that your play was bad and mine wasn't. I can't believe you're satisfied in your play this game when you tried to prevent the lynches of BOTH mafia D1, and were basically willing to lynch ANYONE else. Your reads had about a 90% failure rate, and nobody listened to you aside from PLSD using it as a convenient excuse for his gambit. As for my play, I'll let the mod do the talking for me.

Thoughts on players:
13. Nicholas1024 - Donnie Darko

You had scum pegged early on, and played a pretty excellent game for your slot. You kept up with the game as best as you could and you used your natural talents in a way that really targetted scum and put pressure on them. It unfortunately didn't work out due to a combination of you working on your own and PLSD commiting hari-kari on D1. I was a bit saddened to see you sticking to the "balls to the wall aggro" right out the gate again, as it weakened your role considerably, given that you made yourself a giant target for scum if you were right or a huge ally if you were wrong, and your "hints" could have put as much pressure on scum as your aggression.

That said, knowing you're going to die on D4 after the lynch phase might make some people assume they're A-OK with being an early Night target, so I can understand the reasoning. But as you can see, you would have survived your "doomed" status. =P

But still, while you didn't play to your role, you did play a solid game of mafia.

8. Vandy/J - Hiro Nakamura
*snip*

Nich is the perfect example of someone who plays to his strengths. Yes, this gets him in trouble a lot, but it also does good. He called scum on D1, pre-flip, and made them nervous. That's because he knows what he can do, and knows how to do it. Do the same! Take charge, buddy up, whatever it is you are good at, and improve on that aspect of your game over time.

Regarding my play this game, I was not a potential lynch at any point past around 1000 posts in D1. The only person that was interested in my lynch was you, because you were so firmly entrenched in "He disagrees with me, so he must be scum." With that logic PLSD managed to play you like a fiddle with all of ONE POST. After lurking the entire game.

Regarding Fire Emblem, I made mistakes. I learned from them, and my finding both mafia this game was the result of those lessons. However, although some of my play was less than stellar (I did have some activity problems there, for instance), I refuse to let you blame me for my near-lynch D1, as EVERY last good player in that game had me as obv-town, including OS (he was scum, but he was calling out people for that idiotic case post game), Frozenflame, and Adumbrodeus.

Finally, time for me to call out you on your blatant hypocrisy regarding excuses. You enjoy Occam's razor? Let's go with a list then, shall we?

• I was NK'd N1 by mafia after almost getting him lynched and nailing his scum buddy. He left you alive to LYLO because he thought you were the townie most likely to fail.
• My reads were almost completely spot on this game. Yours had a near 100% FAIL rate, and only came around because there was no other possible option in LYLO.
• The only thing you ever contributed to a lynch was your vote in LYLO and D2. Aside from that you were more or less ignored by everyone all game. On the other hand, there is no way you can pretend that Nabe would have been lynched had I not tunneled him. I was instrumental in getting PLSD's death as well.
• There was no way I was getting lynched about halfway through D1. Almost everyone except you, Nabe, and Reyth had me as null or town. On the other hand, you were a fairly large target, and would likely have been lynched D3 had July's yak and NK not happened.
• Despite all of the above, you claim to be satisfied with your play, and make excuses that it's not that bad. And you have the nerve to try to pretend I'm the one going around with horrible excuses?

And Ryker, I don't plan on taking pot shots at your ego, I plan on shooting at it until it's deflated to a more reasonable size.

 

[Overswarm]

I feel I'm far and away better than you at this game with no offense meant by it. I honestly believe that I'm the best player I've ever seen play this game. There may be someone better than me, but I haven't met him.

Not to burst your bubble, but Nabe has consistently outplayed you. You're not really anything too special; you're good, but if I had to make an all-star scum or town team, you wouldn't be at the top of the list. You're incredibly proficient at being an island, but in that regard you're equal with Gheb, except Gheb at times knows to buddy up or at least pretend to. You've got a lot to work on before you can say you are "far and away better". You've got the mindset and strategy down and you understand common reactions and how to manipulate them, but you can't really translate that to making town do what you want to do. You play to your strengths, which is good, but just like Nich you also dig your own grave a lot. You have trouble looking past your own reads. Seeing the forest from the trees, and all that. You're smart enough to know blind tunneling is bad and you're willing to change your reads with new information, so it's difficult for scum to manipulate you.... but it's also hard for town to give you any help.


Nich had a far, far greater impact on this game than you did. PLSD is what really made his actions prominent (if PLSD hadn't gone nuts, Nich would have had to continue tunneling through D2), but Nich was able to make his reads heard. Inefficiently? Yes. But they were heard. You were a negative impact for the majority of the game, which was saddening to me since you were the strongest standalone player here. Still, whether Nich's reads being right were luck or yours being wrong were just logical conclusions gone wrong, you weren't able to translate your reads into actions while Nich was at least able to bring a spotlight. The only reason you weren't lynched was because you had multiple players putting their head on the chopping block with little to no pressure on them. That's not even an exaggeration, PLSD said "Don't kill my scummate guys!" then winked at Nabe before commiting seppuku and then KKangaroo said "Sup guys, I'm an indie. Do we have a policy on that?" and jumped into the bathtub with a toaster.

You're good at piecing things together, but you aren't a very good team player at all. I don't know enough about your scum game, but your town play is only about halfway there, to be honest. I have the same problem with being an island, but I'm good enough at manipulating people to where I can gambit to get reads and ensure my death early on in exchange for solid information pretty consistently. My scum history makes it difficult for me to "buddy up", so to speak, so I found a way to be a team player without it.

Going into the game thinking "I'm the best here, and no one else can touch me" and letting stronger roles die because you think you'll bring town to victory is a dangerous position to take. Even Tom, one of the stronger town players I've seen (when he is active), will pull a NKill on himself. In fact Tom, Myself, and FF have all had games where we pull VT roles and are overjoyed at our deaths despite being stronger than the average players there. If Nabe could have convinced anyone to be killed, it was you and Soup. Soup because he lied constantly and had unique and transparent powers that hinted of independent alignment. You because of your actions alone. While you can claim you were "hovering the edge", you have to admit it was others actions that allowed you to do that. I'm no stranger to pulling aggro to stay alive, but scummier players kept you alive rather than your own actions entirely.

If I was picking an MVP for this game, it would be a tie between Reyth and Nich. Multiple players would be ahead of you in line. You could learn a thing or two from Ranmaru; he doesn't have as much skill or know-how as other players when it comes to deduction or pressure, but he knows how to play as a team. If the majority of town considers someone town, he doesn't remain an island but rather goes along with town by doing things like NOT using his ability on his own personal reads, and instead trusting in the competence of others. You're a good enough player to where you can do that without doing it blindly, so it's not nearly as dangerous. I understand it can be difficult, especially with someone as tunnely as Nich, but it's definitely something you need to be able to add to your game.


Reads are important, but they aren't everything. Nich isn't super awesome just because his reads were right nor are you wrong because yours missed the target. But still, you have to do something with them.

Oh, and while it wasn't evident in this game, I'm pretty sure Vanderzant is the best town player I've seen in recent games. Just sayin'.

 

[#HBC | J]

Just wanna do a thing or two to two people.

Vandy, it was loads fun working with you bro and any time you would like to hydra again I would make time for it because it was simply a blast for us in what we did. It was funny how like most of the game we thought we were town because we didn't get our role pm but it was so cool to work with someone who shares a lot of the same philosophies I do and is just an overall chill duder. Epic team man and thanks for hydra'ing with me.

July, deeeeeeaaaaar we knew you were town. Like you were so obv to us both when we were chatting on skype or something that we never even questioned it. I mean, we did falter a bit when we saw your flip but then we looked at it and said, "hell no." and pushed past that. You were fun to talk with especially those late night chats with us haha. I mean you played a great game yourself so kudos my dear and I'd love being masoned/hydra'd whatever with you again simply because you are fun to play with and talk to. That was actually the reason I was so intent on having you be the one we mason'd, regardless of what you were, we would have had fun, have a strong person to play with no matter what and I also brought us the opportunity to "hydra" with one another for a game. xD I remember for a little while I was talking to you more than Vandy but heh.

Really GGs all round and thanks OS for running such a fun/unique set-up though I'm always glad in joining your games cuz they are just so quirky and fun. ^^

 

[vanderzant]

Thanks j was heaps of fun. I'm definitely hydraing with you or kat for the next large because ill cry kangaroo tears if I have to read that many posts by myself.

OS I'm flattered but it doesn't matter because I'm awful as scum which I need to work on. I only can win when there are free townies like Nabe and Swiss bahahaha

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I only can win when there are free townies like Nabe and Swiss bahahaha

 

[ranmaru]

OS, can I get critique on that pressure and deduction? I kinda like pressuring people... xD I do like team play, but that's not the only thing I like. : D

 

[Overswarm]

OS, can I get critique on that pressure and deduction? I kinda like pressuring people... xD I do like team play, but that's not the only thing I like. : D

You have ultimately three choices in mafia: being a big dog, a "me too", or irrelevant. Irrelevants are people that don't make sense or don't post. Don't do that. A "me too" is someone that just agrees with another player, then goes from there. That's acceptable, but never is "real" pressure.

The "big dog" is someone that can get a read, gather evidence, then make post directed at one person and make a point. They have to be able to do it directly, and they have to be able to do it in a straight-up question that has a legitimate answer.

Questions like "Why do you think X is scummy" are weak early on, but can dig someone's grave later, but those aren't what I'm talking about. I'm talking more like saying "Nabe, why do you think PLSD defended you" and looking for his response. Or "KKangaroo, why would you claim indy if you were a pro-town indie?". These questions result in clear answers of motive. If the motive, the underlying reasoning, doesn't make sense or mesh with the rest of their play, you've got a suspicion that can be considered valid. You then articulate that suspicion, and you've got yourself a case.

 

[ranmaru]

Ah ok. Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. yeah I usually just fall back to questions about reads, but I will deff keep motive in mind. I mean I Look for intent, but maybe I just don't ask about it. lolz.

Thanks, that helped. : D

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

While I'm thinking about it, Nabe, be on skype sometime in the future. I'd like to talk with you as well as Vandz.

@Nich - I saw it before the edit and laughed. Good luck burying this thing, bro. I seriously doubt you can even deflate it. I welcome the challenge though.

Not to burst your bubble, but Nabe has consistently outplayed you.

Congratulations to him. He's played me here, despite losing, and he straight up outplayed me in Superheroes. Yup, not gonna take that from him. Doesn't change my opinion on the matter, it's something to look out for in the future.

You're not really anything too special; you're good, but if I had to make an all-star scum or town team, you wouldn't be at the top of the list.

Your opinion and you're entitled to it. I believe my record stands well enough and I would certainly put me on either. If you're interested, I'd probably put you on it too somewhere around my fifth pick.

But yeah, I'm perfectly fine with your estimation of me and it hasn't changed my opinion.

You're incredibly proficient at being an island, but in that regard you're equal with Gheb, except Gheb at times knows to buddy up or at least pretend to. You've got a lot to work on before you can say you are "far and away better". You've got the mindset and strategy down and you understand common reactions and how to manipulate them, but you can't really translate that to making town do what you want to do. You play to your strengths, which is good, but just like Nich you also dig your own grave a lot.

What you posted about me being an island is correct, I'm good at that. However, I also happen to be good at getting players to react how I want them to. Buddying is a tool and I'll use it when necessary. I buddy Swiss because I find it much easier to gauge his reactions without exchanging hostilities. I use the tool when I think it's the right tool for the job. When trying to save Nabe, I was working Ran by buddying him and playing to his importance. It's just not always the right card. You wouldn't use a screwdriver for hammering a nail just as I wouldn't use buddying to deal with a player that I wanted to lynch (i.e. the KK/July neighborhood or Nich). In fact, I find being inflammatory to players like that much more helpful as it draws more attention to them via their reactions. I already have the ammo to lynch them, and it helps to have the stage.

You also say my knowledge of how to manipulate reactions doesn't really translate into making town do what I want it to do, but that's pretty wrong. I happen to pride myself on that. While I didn't always get what I wanted in this pretty bad game, I got it enough to show that I can certainly get what I want to happen. Look at the Nabe save which wouldn't have occurred without someone actively acting on it prior to PLSD's gambit or at the derail of the .JPG wagon or the fact that I was never lynched despite remaining on most players scum lists the entire game with everyone screaming that my role sounded fake.

You have trouble looking past your own reads. Seeing the forest from the trees, and all that. You're smart enough to know blind tunneling is bad and you're willing to change your reads with new information, so it's difficult for scum to manipulate you.... but it's also hard for town to give you any help.

For a reason. Generally speaking, I tailored my read for a reason. I understand the reasoning for it backward and forward and it is convincing enough from my point of view to act on it. Other people's reads have to be looked at for their value and it's not often that I miss something that I think is more valuable than my read. Yeah, sure, I see what people are saying, but why wouldn't I have said it if it was better than my read?

Nich had a far, far greater impact on this game than you did. PLSD is what really made his actions prominent (if PLSD hadn't gone nuts, Nich would have had to continue tunneling through D2), but Nich was able to make his reads heard. Inefficiently? Yes. But they were heard. You were a negative impact for the majority of the game, which was saddening to me since you were the strongest standalone player here. Still, whether Nich's reads being right were luck or yours being wrong were just logical conclusions gone wrong, you weren't able to translate your reads into actions while Nich was at least able to bring a spotlight.

I disagree with your depiction of impact. Was Nich's read correct? Yes. Was mine wrong? Also yes. You said yourself that he was inefficient in making himself heard, yet you turn around and say I was a negative impact for the majority of the game. That is an impact regardless. Nich was able to bring a spotlight onto Nabe, but Nabe still was not lynched until the final day. My scum reads on Day 1 were KK, Ran, SoupaKat, and July. Each and every one of them was pushed, claimed, and reevaluated whereas Nich's candidate for lynch was not lynched until LyLo.

The only reason you weren't lynched was because you had multiple players putting their head on the chopping block with little to no pressure on them. That's not even an exaggeration, PLSD said "Don't kill my scummate guys!" then winked at Nabe before commiting seppuku and then KKangaroo said "Sup guys, I'm an indie. Do we have a policy on that?" and jumped into the bathtub with a toaster.

Oh please.

I can play as scummy as I want so long as there is always one more guy than me to lynch and as long as another faction doesn't gain majority. I went into this game preaching to Raziek about how we're gonna be one or two places above the guy who's lynched every phase. Again, my top 4 scumspects were put to claim. I didn't get lynched. My faction won.

This is an EXTREMELY weak point.

You're good at piecing things together, but you aren't a very good team player at all. I don't know enough about your scum game, but your town play is only about halfway there, to be honest. I have the same problem with being an island, but I'm good enough at manipulating people to where I can gambit to get reads and ensure my death early on in exchange for solid information pretty consistently. My scum history makes it difficult for me to "buddy up", so to speak, so I found a way to be a team player without it.

I've done the whole, I die early and leave the town in a great position thing. Look at D.Gray man where the Ryker/Kuz hydra got MvP for pinning the entire scum team on Day 2 and dying with the game in hand. I've also won the game by surviving and being around as a road block for scum on an otherwise free list of survivors in late game. There are multiple ways to play the game as expendable town.

Going into the game thinking "I'm the best here, and no one else can touch me" and letting stronger roles die because you think you'll bring town to victory is a dangerous position to take. Even Tom, one of the stronger town players I've seen (when he is active), will pull a NKill on himself. In fact Tom, Myself, and FF have all had games where we pull VT roles and are overjoyed at our deaths despite being stronger than the average players there.

Again, I disagree fundamentally.

Going into the game thinking, "I'm the best here," (not even that no one else can touch me line because that's bull****) has not hurt me yet. Mistakes hurt me, but I can't see how they stem from that.

You act as if powerful town roles are necessary in every situation, but they certainly aren't. There should be NO game ever that town roles are necessary to win outside of central mechanic changes such as BiM or Kingmaker. That means it's a situational decision of value. You decide as the game goes on whether or not you're that valuable. As a doctor, I've protected a powerful town player over a claimed cop because the claimed cop was less valuable to me. When placing my own worth against their's, it's my judgement. Here especially where, throughout the game, I had nothing but roles I valued myself more than claimed. A double-voter in the hands of someone who's reads I didn't agree with. Link, who I didn't believe at the onset and then was removed from the occasion, claimed masons from two players who's reads and play I abhorred. I had nothing there I wanted and only hypotheticals to guess at the other players.

And that VT line is silly. Outside of some variation of Vig, it's probably my favorite role as it allows me the freedom to do whatever I feel I need to do. Doc is easily my least favorite because it ropes me into trying to survive and figure out who, outside of myself, I think is capable of winning the game.

If Nabe could have convinced anyone to be killed, it was you and Soup. Soup because he lied constantly and had unique and transparent powers that hinted of independent alignment. You because of your actions alone. While you can claim you were "hovering the edge", you have to admit it was others actions that allowed you to do that. I'm no stranger to pulling aggro to stay alive, but scummier players kept you alive rather than your own actions entirely.

Yes, others actions allowed me to make the decisions that I did which left me in the position that I wanted to be in. It's like Gheb's faulty MvP argument that Kuz wouldn't have been able to get away with the extremely manipulative scum game that he did in Ducktales against a better roster. You're assuming that if others had not made the decisions they did, that I would still make the decisions that I did. My actions will change according to the surroundings.

If I was picking an MVP for this game, it would be a tie between Reyth and Nich. Multiple players would be ahead of you in line. You could learn a thing or two from Ranmaru; he doesn't have as much skill or know-how as other players when it comes to deduction or pressure, but he knows how to play as a team. If the majority of town considers someone town, he doesn't remain an island but rather goes along with town by doing things like NOT using his ability on his own personal reads, and instead trusting in the competence of others. You're a good enough player to where you can do that without doing it blindly, so it's not nearly as dangerous. I understand it can be difficult, especially with someone as tunnely as Nich, but it's definitely something you need to be able to add to your game.

If you were picking an MvP for this game, I would have to question your sanity. If I was forced to pick one, it would be Gova or Reyth, although I do not like to give MvP to a faction that did not win.

Yes, there are multiple players ahead of me in this game. Gova, Reyth, TBlock, and Swiss at least. That doesn't change my opinion that I am the best player I know to play this game. It also doesn't change my opinion of Nich's play here or his playstyle in general.

I've already mentioned the how and why of analyzing the reads of others. The more people added to it, the more it urges me to go back and double check, but in the end, it's a judgement of whether or not I believe their information is a good enough reason to change my stance or, weighing it on a different scale, to hold me in check from using my ability to bypass their opinions.

Reads are important, but they aren't everything. Nich isn't super awesome just because his reads were right nor are you wrong because yours missed the target. But still, you have to do something with them.

I acknowledge and agree with this sentiment. Anyone reading this, don't get me wrong and think that reads aren't important, because they are very important, but you can have the correct reads one hundred percent of the time and still be terrible because you can never act on them.

Oh, and while it wasn't evident in this game, I'm pretty sure Vanderzant is the best town player I've seen in recent games. Just sayin'.

Vandy is a legitimate threat to scum and definitely someone to watch for the right moment to take out of the game. I can't remember the last scum game I've seen him play.

 

[Asdioh]

holy **** this game is over? O_O

 

[Asdioh]

[4. videogames.jpg (Asdioh/X1-12) - John Connor

You played very well, one of the few slots that I was actually somewhat impressed with this game.... until you decided to kill yourself. Why the doctor would decide to modkill themselves, I do not know, but you were the only non-scum related town death, essentially marring what could have been a perfect game. Shame on you.

Spoiler

I honestly didn't expect to get modkilled, but I was prepared for the consequences. Especially since I was having trouble keeping up with the sheer volume of the game.

LOL REYTH SORRY X3

I didn't know what would happen if I died, but I actually didn't think you would lose, since I thought the terminator just wanted me dead, not that he necessarily had to kill me. But when it caused you to lose I couldn't help but laugh xD
But yeah, I was like 90% sure it was me. I though Sarah Connor made a lot more sense (from what I remember from the terminator) but 3/13 roles from one series might oversaturate the game.
Man. Best modkill.


And yeah, Reyth's indy play was really good imo. He was my strongest townread all game... I'm terrible at indy hunting, but from now on if I think there might be an indy I will label someone as "not mafia" instead of "town" o_o

edit, didn't even notice the other part of this:

I was impressed with your deduction skills and teamwork; figuring out it was the terminator and reacting appropriately was a huge boon to your slot.

X1 is a cool guy

here's our QT http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/d9jmstJJsWi29

 

[Asdioh]

So anyway, glad town won. Good job guys

@OS: I haven't fully read all the roles, but cool setup.

The activity level in this game was astounding, and pretty much impossible. There were times where I considered lynching Reyth, not because I thought he was scum, but because it would make the game more manageable for the rest of us >_>
After a while I couldn't bring myself to do more than just skimming the thread, and responding to what little I could. Sorry I wasn't a big help as the game wore on.

Also, I'm pretty satisfied with this town.

Sorry X1/Asdioh for tunneling you...

It was a little frustrating, but now that you know I was the doctor, which is (usually) guaranteed to not get lynched, I didn't mind it too much. I also eventually became confident you were town (forgot why, but you were a big scumpick at one point) and that made things easier too.

I see people talking about my modkill. It seems like it helped a lot lol >_<
That's the only time I plan on ever getting modkilled. What X1 said was true, I did it without consulting him, but at the time he was pretty much planning on replacing out anyway so I just went for it to see what happened. It's too bad I wasted my vote on (town) Swiss :x !




OH YEAH about me being the victim.

I had thought it was likely the terminator, and when I "crumbed" it it was actually supposed to just imply that I knew who the killer was, and tried to warn who I thought might be the victim if it wasn't me, because like I said, it made a lot of sense for it to be sarah connor.
DG did a good job of catching that, though I think saying ANYTHING about "catching a crumb" was a bad idea in the first place.
Another thing is that I think that saying the word "terminate" is one thing, but my bigger victim slip was actually when I responded to DG's initial claim. I put a lot of thought into it and then outright said that I believed his claim. It could have easily been interpreted (by Reyth) that I believed it because I believed myself to be the victim, and that was dangerous.


Is Reyth still here? I REALLY want to see his opinion and thought process and stuff.
I'd also love to see him in more games, provided he doesn't post/multipost as frequently in them. I could tell that he is good at this game, I really liked how spot-on he was at calling me town and giving reasons for it (even though scumhunting is more important, and I can't really remember who his scumpicks were atm)

 

[Swiss]

2. Raziek/Ryker (Degrey)

Terrible reads early game, but you really picked it up late game and had the right calls. Bad game for you but imo you're one of the better players on Dgames, as proved in multiple games.


3. Kataefi/Soupamario (SoupaKatamari)

I will never understand how you play. Soup was obv town as Kat had good reads - made a powerful combo.

9. Gova

Less active than me, and that's saying something.

10. Ranmaru

Cannot wrap my head around your thought process, it makes no sense, you make no sense. You're improving fast and instead of being constrained by pretending to be good and so not improving, you actually try to take on board criticism. You also don't take any **** in game. Which is a good thing, but irritating as **** when you're clearly wrong, haha.

6. July The Sorceress, Mafia Sorceress

I was surprised you flipped scum - the yak screwed me as I ignored you after my (correct) town read. I can't really comment on you this game as I didn't really read your posts.


13. Nicholas1024 Donnie Darko, Doomed Townie

Great play. I've said everything to you outside of thread.

8. Kawaii Kangaroo (Vandy/J) Hiro, Independent Time Traveling Role Blocker

Pinned you fast and hard, imo you played terribly (but no-one else thought you were scum, so maybe I'm just amazing) but got VERY unlucky with July. It was a smart N0 choice, very smart. Shame when the right choice backfires.

1. T-block James Cole, Town Paranoid Gun Owner

Played your role imo, especially for a newer player. I remember thinking your posts were smart - which is a good sign.

4. videogames.jpg (Asdioh/X1-12) John Connor Town Time Traveling Doctor

X1's really been impressing me recently, the modkill doesn't detract from that, but was foolhardy. Nothing interesting to say on the slot or Asidoh.

11. Reyth The Terminator, Independent Serial Killer

It's rare I agonise over a read on someone, I couldn't pin you. Which is perfect SK play. You got incredibly unlucky and played well. You're the kind of player I enjoy playing with.

So unlucky.

12. Swiss Bill & Ted, Town Time Traveling Tracker

All the right reads apart from what, one? All this from extremely limited activity and through a Mod that decided to be total ***. Only player that pinned KK and stayed on him after he was 'confirmed' town. Try and call me bad, smash your ****ing face in.

5. Nabe Trevor Fitzroy, Mafia Time Traveler

Poor game for you imo, I pinned you easily and many other people did.

7. Prehistoric Laundry Sex Dance (Laundry/Kuz) The Sorceress, Mafia Sorceress

Utterly terrible play.

 

[vanderzant]

A couple times you quoted a post of J's and said "vand is scummy because of this" which I found funny

 

[ranmaru]

@Swiss: Yeah I'm random I guess. Thanks, I do try to improve as much as I can. Mafia is very fun, and I always check myself. Oh, yeah I won't take any **** ever. If I'm wrong I'm willing to re-evaluate. If I'm not I will keep on pushing.

@Asdioh: Yeah. I just look at people that seem scummy, and look at others that push them. ... Sometimes it works in skype mafia or marathon games. It would be like a hunch. I'll try to lay off that.

After that, you were ok. Only thing was the "oh he's useless" vote, which I assume came from X1. Bro that made u rly scummy lol. I would have lynched u for that.

I found it pretty funny u mk'd urself tho

---------

I'll message Reyth and tell him the game is over.

 

[X1-12]

Asdioh is the one who said you should die for being useless.

 

[Gova]

I wasn't less active than you Swiss. lol

 

[July]

@J: I had so much fun being masoned with you and Vandy, which I expected of course :D I always love playing in games with you and this was one of the most fun games I've ever played, and of course I was honored you chose me as your mason partner.

@Vandy: It was awesome getting to know you through the masonry, you are an awesome dude and you had killer reads, I was super impressed. Thank you for a great game and deff hope to play with you again soon :D

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Lots of talkin' in here. Let's read a bit :3

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ryker, regardless of what you think about yourself I'd just like to make it clear that your recent performances absolutely don't justify your claims in the slightest. J's and Kuz' play in the last couple of games has been better than a lot of your plays [not only recent ones]. Put your money where your mouth is - don't just talk big, play as well as you think as you can for once. You failed to do so recently and you're not among the strongest performers in any game after like Dissidia.

OS, I have a lot of respect for the critiques you do after the game is over. You're really into the stuff you do and that's great. I wish I could hand out advice so easily but I'm such a mafia rank growth XD
I also like how you can't just use Occam's Razor in your games to cut through people's stupidity, which makes it actually challenging to play. Gonna join your next game for sure - is that going to be FFT?

 

[Overswarm]

FF Tactics will be my next large; it won't be quite as zany as this. After that, I have Heroes Mafia for a small and Overswarm All Star for a Large

 

[Nicholas1024]

Hey OS, what could I have changed to get some more pressure on Nabe? I mean, despite all that case making it took a LONG time for any significant pressure to finally happen.

 

[Overswarm]

Hey OS, what could I have changed to get some more pressure on Nabe? I mean, despite all that case making it took a LONG time for any significant pressure to finally happen.

Go at it like a lawyer, not a guy on a high school debate team.

A kid on a debate team lays out all his information and says "Try and prove that wrong". This is a dangerous approach. It gives him exactly one shot at being relevant to anyone listening; if his opponent proves him wrong in any facet and forces him to continue the debate by posting more to his already long case, to everyone else's eyes it's two people arguing over their own thoughts rather than one person simply stating the truth.

If I say "1+1 is 2 because of (proof)", your only response is "oh, you're right" or completely pointless statements. If I say "strawberry ice cream is the best", you can have a strong response to that even if your response is no more true than mine. This undermines your credibility in the eyes of others. While it might not make YOU think you're wrong, to everyone else who is trying to figure out who is hiding information it can be enough to make them look elsewhere for more "concrete" things.

In addition to just giving you one shot at being right, it also floods the thread with too many aspects in your case. Flooding the thread can be good if done properly, but you have to word it in such a way that your key points get through. If you're trying to say that Nabe is scum because he does x, y, and z, but you point out a, b, c, d, e, x , y, and z, most people will just kind of gloss over it and not pick up on the stronger stuff. Even if they do, if Nabe doesn't respond to a particular point of yours... no one will blame him. All he has to do is say "I didn't have time" or "I missed that" and everyone can relate instantly.

It also gives YOU more of a chance to **** up. While your opponent can take all the time in the world to respond to each piece, dragging it out forever, he could instead just attack your weaker points and counter-accuse you. This often happens with you in the form of "Oh Nich, he's just tunneling" and your response is always "But he did X, how is that tunneling?!". Generally when you're saying that, it's to something fairly weak and irrelevant that only seems strong when paired with the other reads you have on a player, and scum can isolate it, make you look foolish, and sidestep you like a conquistador while everyone else instantly adds a mental note that you are tunneling.


Instead, take it like a trial lawyer. They don't ask all their questions at once, allowing their opponent to get a full story that doesn't incriminate themselves, and even if they make a big case they do so with only the most substantial evidence. They don't even present all of it at once sometimes.

If instead of making a huge case against Nabe you had forced him to actually take a stance on something, you can then use that stance against him later in your case.

"Nabe, why do you think PLSD defended you"

"Because he wanted to make me look like scum, he was obviously a yak. Him and July had the same role."

"Why are you so sure he's a yak? It says Mafia Sorceress."

"Well, he left the game and then someone else died with his same role."

"Couldn't it be a scum role that makes people flip as the sorceress instead?"

"Maybe, but I doubt it."

"So you'd understand if town thought you were scum because of PLSD defending you, because you think PLSD defended you so we would, right? That'd be logical on our part."

"yes" is his only response here, although he can and will fluff it with "I'm obviously not scum because of X Y and Z"

"Well I think you should be a lynch for today. There was no reason for PLSD to just kill himself like that, yak or not, and he did it trying to defend you. You should claim."

or potentially a discussion on X Y and Z

That right there is a stronger case than what you had and it didn't even have anything he did in it. Just simple questions with simple answers that he can't possibly wiggle out of because you're controlling the flow. You ignore all the extra stuff, get the meat of his response, and follow your course, and suddenly he has to mold his strategy to what you're saying. He has to react rather than create. Whenever scum have to react, they lose.

Now I know it can seem frustrating to not make the big case. It SEEMS logical, but really it is only logical because everyone is paying attention. If you post on facebook about how horrible a person your ex girlfriend is, everyone will think you're crazy. If you make a post that says "" and everyone reasponds "What's wrong?!" and you reply "My ex girlfriend... bad stuff :\", then they're hooked. Their further replies of "What'd she do?!" can be followed by your long rant, and you no longer look crazy because it is relevant to your audience.

So get everyone looking at someone, THEN make your big case. I love big cases. I use them. Frozen Flame uses them. EE uses the hell out of them. Adumbrodeus can, but he's usually more pointed and has much better control of pacing than most so doesn't have to. Lots of strong town players use big cases... but lots of weaker players do too. I think the best examples of big cases used poorly are with you and J; both of you can make actual excellent cases and your reads are right very often, but you always jump the gun and you make the huge cases before people are paying attention to scum. Then it's just a show where people have to take sides.

Be simple and straightforward to start to put pressure on them by forcing scum to react, to commit. Then, once the spotlight is on them, use that as a point to attack from and everyone will start to pay attention. Once they're paying attention, go for the jugular with the big post.

Think of it this way:

Which is scummier, a guy ignoring a large post, or a guy answering a bunch of small questions and then ignoring a large case?

The second one draws suspicion naturally because everyone is already aware of that person. This forces them to respond, which puts them even more in the spotlight. Scum hate that. That's why they always try to brush off questions, no matter how simple, and why you always need to get them to answer.

 

[Nicholas1024]

I see joining the debate hall wasn't entirely beneficial to my mafia game...

Thanks for the advice, OS, I'll try to keep in mind next time.

 

[Evil Eye]

I'm buttdevastated by the lack of John Freeman

 

[Gova]

I was sad that there wasn't a character from Time Splitters.

 

[Overswarm]

I'm buttdevastated by the lack of John Freeman

Gordon Freeman I wanted to add, but left him as a safe claim simply because he was so powerful a safe claim. Gordon didn't DO anything in particular in Half-Life 2, so you could mold it to anything, and not too many people would say "Gordon Freeman wouldn't be in this game". Ditto to Chrono from Chrono Trigger.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Aight, guess I'll pre-in FFT then :D

 

[Overswarm]

That's a large game, so it's ages away. You might be dead by then.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Would it be possible to run OS All stars first, or are you planning on including a FFT role in it?

 

[Overswarm]

FFT and Heroes are already making appearances in OS All Stars, so it would be unfair to players in all stars, since part of the point of that game is that you know everyone's potential roles already.

 

[Asdioh]

I'm buttdevastated by the lack of John Freeman

I honestly thought of fakeclaiming that.

But my character's name was also John so I was like "this could end badly"

 

[Evil Eye]

Yo OS I said John Freeman not Gordon Freeman. Although Gordon is one awesome *** kickin autistic

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

You should've claimed John. I'd have claimed Gordon, could've been my out

 

[Nicholas1024]

So OS, is the no MVP decision here official now, or have you decided on giving one out?

 

[Overswarm]

Official, no MVP

 

[adumbrodeus]

*namesearches*

Nich was in consideration for mvp with this playerlist, what happened?