Social "Time to Tip the Scales!" - Robin Social Thread

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Casual was fine, as permadeath was a bit too restricting and drove more wider audience away from FE before. But Phoenix Mode is bit going too far with appealing to casuals. I.S is trying to market this game higher than 13+ by JPN rating for IF, so I'm really confused by who they think the audience playing Phoenix Mode has to be.

Do they think the story is now enough to sell FE:IF? We're not here to watch a movie... though getting something like that now is a choice. But videogames aren't movies, we had seen that already by such games like Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid back decade ago.

I can see why they try to cater If even further to wider audience, but it seems to almost say that Fire Emblem used to be too hard.

 

[Ivander]

Gameplay Twist! Phoenix Mode also includes enemy units/has an option to include enemy units. Your reaction?

 

[Wintropy]

And this kind of elitism is why I was afraid to interact much with the FE fanbase when I first beat Awakening on Casual. I understand that some people feel like the dying is part of the experience and I will happily work with it in older games, but if I'm given the option, I'll go Casual.

But I guess I'm not a true FE fan, then. Might as well go sell all my games and just play Imagine Party Babies or something like that since I'm not a true gamer.

Play whatever you want to play. There's no shame in playing Casual mode, just that the word "casual" has developed an unfortunate stigma in the vidya industry.

I play Classic mode because I like the added challenge and feel I can immerse myself in the story more if I have a particular connection to the characters and their well-being, but I wouldn't begrudge somebody for doing it differently. I only ever do no-death runs anyway, and even if I was playing Casual mode, I'd feel intent on not letting anybody die on principle - so I may as well play Classic mode, y'know?

 

[Champ Gold]

Even I think Phoenix mode is silly, but I'll just not choose it. I admit I'll likely stick with Casual though because nobody dies on my watch.

I'm mixed on the loss of weapons breaking. Using them wisely was part of the challenge, but it's not like I had to deal with weapon shortages in Awakening often even with the mechanic. It'd still be nice to give us the option to choose between having weapons break or not, though.

I wonder if this means we'll get more weapon variety though and will have new strategy in deciding which weapons to equip instead.

Also, NINE SAVE SLOTS.

That's worrying me, since Nohr is the one I wanted to play more... But it should be doable with Casual mode... Right?

And this kind of elitism is why I was afraid to interact much with the FE fanbase when I first beat Awakening on Casual. I understand that some people feel like the dying is part of the experience and I will happily work with it in older games, but if I'm given the option, I'll go Casual.

But I guess I'm not a true FE fan, then. Might as well go sell all my games and just play Imagine Party Babies or something like that since I'm not a true gamer.

I play on Casual in Awakening m8 but I'm saying also give Classic a try for the challenge unless you like ramming units into enemies with rarely a sense of strategy.

 

[Mr. Johan]

um whats your FC?

Oh right, 3DS doesn't set up notices of FCs.

0516-8150-0975

 

[Space Stranger]

Phoenix mode seems unnecessary with Casual's inclusion. Your units already come back after the battle, reviving them after each turn waters down the difficulty by a wide margin. Casual was good for its balance with revival after turn, allowing newer fans to get use to the flow of the game.

Maybe the final boss will ask the player's permission to attack on Phoenix.

 

[Antonykun]

i'm gonna pretend nohr is so op you'll want that phoenix mode

 

[Shaymikyu]

I play on Casual in Awakening m8 but I'm saying also give Classic a try for the challenge unless you like ramming units into enemies with rarely a sense of strategy.

Okay, got it. I misunderstood your post.

There is definitely an added strategy to keeping units alive when they will die, even if my only experience with it so far is FE7.

 

[Space Stranger]

I think I'm going to make it a goal to beat all FE available to me:

• FE7
• FE8
• Awakening
• FE6
• FE1
• FE4
• FE5

Summer just got busier.

 

[Antonykun]

made the room

Oh right, 3DS doesn't set up notices of FCs.

0516-8150-0975

well i thoguht i did brb

 

[Champ Gold]

Okay, got it. I misunderstood your post.

There is definitely an added strategy to keeping units alive when they will die, even if my only experience with it so far is FE7.

Try out PoR or Sacred Stones. Those have a very fair difficulty but enough to truly strategize your loadout.

 

[Wintropy]

I have a 3DS.

I'll get in on that action if there's a space available. :3

 

[Shaymikyu]

Try out PoR or Sacred Stones. Those have a very fair difficulty but enough to truly strategize your loadout.

I have plans on playing FE8 soon, actually. And I definitely want to visit PoR eventually, because that's the one that originally got me interested in FE even if I never actually got and played it because I was young and stupid.

 

[RadiantTactician]

I can imagine the only real use for Phoenix Mode would be speed-running as you wouldn't have to worry about your units coming back until after the chapter. Still pretty excessive though.

I'll miss the weapon uses, which is disappointing that they're removing it. I hope they have a reason to get rid of it besides 'steam-lining the experience' because it really adds to the strategic nature of the series.

 

[Hokori]

I'll still be playing on the higher-end difficulties on Classic as I normally do, so Ho-Oh mode doesn't bother me in the slightest. I guess I'm just surprised is all...when I first came across "Phoenix Mode", I was thinking to myself "ZOMG ARE WE GONNA GET A MORE DIFFICULT MODE SO I CAN INVEST COUNTLESS HOURS OF MY LIFE INTO THE GAME AND BE IN RAGE MODE FOREVER?!"...but then I returned to my senses and remembered what a phoenix is, so I was like

I can't imagine players needing/wanting that much of a handicap, but eh...maybe if you REALLY get sad when a unit dies and you can't bear to be apart from them for more than a turn, then sure

The main thing that bothers me is the unlimited use of weapons. I'll admit that I kinda skimmed through some parts, so is this being implemented in all modes, or will Classic be untouched where weapons can still break and what not?

Logs FTW.

 

[Coolpool2]

It seems kind of redundant to have phoenix mode when they already have casual. At that point you literally do not need to do anything other than charge blindly at the enemy over and over. Then again maybe nohr will be very difficult. I'd also be up for some 3ds smash sometime, although I think I've gotten rusty since I haven't played in a while. I never got my shoulder buttons fixed and I don't tinker with machines very often so I am a little afraid I might damage my 3ds to try and do some repairs.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Do they think the story is now enough to sell FE:IF?

Coming Up, Fire Emblem, the visual novel, where all strategy and gameplay is gone in favor of simply choosing one of many endings with your favorite "waifu".
Although I'll find it hilarious if they think story alone can sell a FE, especially after the plot of Awakening

 

[Shaymikyu]

I'll still be playing on the higher-end difficulties on Classic as I normally do, so Ho-Oh mode doesn't bother me in the slightest. I guess I'm just surprised is all...when I first came across "Phoenix Mode", I was thinking to myself "ZOMG ARE WE GONNA GET A MORE DIFFICULT MODE SO I CAN INVEST COUNTLESS HOURS OF MY LIFE INTO THE GAME AND BE IN RAGE MODE FOREVER?!"...but then I returned to my senses and remembered what a phoenix is, so I was like

I can't imagine players needing/wanting that much of a handicap, but eh...maybe if you REALLY get sad when a unit dies and you can't bear to be apart from them for more than a turn, then sure

The main thing that bothers me is the unlimited use of weapons. I'll admit that I kinda skimmed through some parts, so is this being implemented in all modes, or will Classic be untouched where weapons can still break and what not?

Logs FTW.

If breakable weapons are in Classic mode, I just might go with it over Casual mode... At least for Hoshido and subsequent Nohr runs. Still nervous I'm too casual for pure Nohr.

 

[IAmMetaKnight]

Additionally, the limited number of times a weapon can be used has been abolished

Strategy=out the window.

Looks like FE is no longer a strategy game... Well... I'll just be...

Spoiler

Still totally getting the game...

 

[Chapter Serf]

New "I'll show myself out" gif for the win.

Personally, I don't care about Phoenix mode at all. I'll just ignore it.

 

[Hong]

People who complain about someone else's play experience being too easy in a single player game.

 

[Shaymikyu]

People who complain about someone else's play experience being too easy in a single player game.

This is why I honestly can't really work up being upset over Phoenix mode.

The loss of breakable weapons does effect everyone, though, so I can understand rage at that a bit more.

 

[IAmMetaKnight]

made the room

well i thoguht i did brb

If there's any room left, I might grace you with my presence... as soon as somebody registers mah frend coad. :3

 

[Chapter Serf]

Get good and play Classic mode you baby. Only play Casual for story which FE hasn't had a decent story ever.

Go play Classic to experience the true FE feel

**** off.

People who complain about someone else's play experience being too easy in a single player game.

OK, that was a much better way of saying it.

 

[Hong]

The loss of breakable weapons does effect everyone, though, so I can understand rage at that a bit more.

The whole thing with this is the consequence of the effect is immeasurable.

As an example, one can't compare the lack of weapon depreciation in Gaiden, for the same reason Gaiden can't compare the lack of a character-based magic system in other games. Imagine if people were complaining about FE3 being too easy because magic doesn't cost HP.

What is most important is the product has meaningful decisions to make. Attrition, inventory management, and having to make serious considerations about the cost effectiveness of your investments has always been an element of Fire Emblem, this much is for sure. You're not just the tactician; you are also the quartermaster. However, we really have no idea about the full scope of new potential things to manage. We can hopefully have more meaningful decisions to make to help the experience feel more engaging.

Another thing that is incomparable are people who are already presuming the tactics they have established in Awakening will work here, like assuming they can just Pair Up-blitz their way through every chapter knowing absolutely nothing about the game's designs or even how Pair Up will really actually work. Any statements about how this will make the game too easy or too hard are objectively baseless.

 

[Zantetsugun]

Well looks like I'm pretty tardy to the FE: if Party (guess that's what happens when you sleep in until 11). I'll make this short and sweet since everyone has said about how I feel about these new developments at this point.

- Losing Weapon Durability: Seems like a bad choice, because making sure you had enough weapons to survive a fight is, or I suppose the correct terminology now is WAS, a huge part of why you had to be strategical.

- Phoenix Mode: WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? I won't play it, so I'm not actually that upset. Just disappointed that they think so little of their fanbase.

At least now we know the name of this adorable child.

(Elise suits her)

 

[Shaymikyu]

The whole thing with this is the consequence of the effect is immeasurable.

As an example, one can't compare the lack of weapon depreciation in Gaiden, for the same reason Gaiden can't compare the lack of a character-based magic system in other games. Imagine if people were complaining about FE3 being too easy because magic doesn't cost HP.

What is most important is the product has meaningful decisions to make. Attrition, inventory management, and having to make serious considerations about the cost effectiveness of your investments has always been an element of Fire Emblem, this much is for sure. You're not just the tactician; you are also the quartermaster. However, we really have no idea about the full scope of new potential things to manage. We can hopefully have more meaningful decisions to make to help the experience feel more engaging.

Another thing that is incomparable are people who are already presuming the tactics they have established in Awakening will work here, like assuming they can just Pair Up-blitz their way through every chapter knowing absolutely nothing about the game's designs or even how Pair Up will really actually work. Any statements about how this will make the game too easy or too hard are objectively baseless.

True, it's difficult to understand what impact this could have on strategy without knowing how IS will work with it. I still have faith that IS will find other ways to bring the strategy out. I'm still hopeful due to the return of more varied objectives.

 

[Wintropy]

Whatever about Fire Emblem's story, the dialogue is top-notch.

The exchange between Chrom and Walhart when you fight him the second time is one of my favourite moments in any vidya, and the support conversations are always entertaining and informative.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

um whats your FC?

Friend Code?

 

[Hokori]

On a lighter note, what's for lunch/dinner, Tacticians? I'm hungry and I've had enough of Gaius's Confect for a little while.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

People who complain about someone else's play experience being too easy in a single player game.

I think it's because it makes the actual gameplay feel right now, a secondary feature. You choose the difficulty and the variable objectives, which has either just experience the gameplay but not be that involved with it as your mistakes are overwritten easily (so the final boss will be also a breeze, ensuring MU won't be killed) - but it then leaves up the debation can FE:If is about as mere interacteable movie as it is a videogame to pander on people that come from anime/movie audiences.

Like, I guess you can now buy FE just for the characters, but if starts to streamlined the game permamently for the veterans (like right now), there's a clear problem with this direction. I really thus hope they have this covered.

 

[Wintropy]

Just logged onto the Fire Emblem Wiki.

My immediate reaction was, "The hell are @ Chapter Serf and @ RadiantTactician doing here?"

And then I realised it was the background.

Best wiki~ <3

 

[Hong]

- Losing Weapon Durability: Seems like a bad choice, because making sure you had enough weapons to survive a fight is, or I suppose the correct terminology now is WAS, a huge part of why you had to be strategical.

Knows nothing about the potential new effects weapons have, and thus ergo can mean choosing the right weapon, and not the right number, can be more important. Unless just stocking a front-liner with two stacks of Javelins really amounted to anything strategic... A strategy that works in literally every game eventually.

- Phoenix Mode: WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? I won't play it, so I'm not actually that upset. Just disappointed that they think so little of their fanbase.

So you are implying that wanting more options for their players and wanting more people to be able to play their game somehow amounts to thinking little of the playerbase?

I get it, I get. You mean you think they are presuming that Fire Emblem fans are bad.

Well, yeah. A lot of the Awakening generation is certainly not any good at Fire Emblem if they struggled with a game like that... And there's nothing wrong with saying that. If they want to give veterans a real challenge this time, and have real difficulty, and chapters that take a wider range of solutions to solve, they can't have these increases in difficulty without absolutely demolishing their new, expanded fanbase. Nevermind people who are going to be starting from if alone.

A lower barrier of entry is a good thing. What matters is that the game is inviting enough on one spectrum, and punishingly, brutally hard (but fair) on the other.


I know, just your opinion. Well, this is mine.

 

[Moydow]

Oh hey, it seems Phoenix Wright and Maya will be in that Project X Zone 2 @ Moydow

I think my wallet has an objection to this...
Everyone is here moaning about Phoenix mode (I don't care about it really, you can always just not use it), when this is the important Phoenix-related news of the day

Lets hope they don't turn Maya into some fanservice machine like 90% of the female cast of the first game

...ugh. They're going to make her channel Mia for half the game, aren't they?

Just logged onto the Fire Emblem Wiki.

My immediate reaction was, "The hell are @ Chapter Serf and @ RadiantTactician doing here?"

And then I realised it was the background.

Best wiki~ <3

I have a better one over here

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Inb4 Robin will not be in Smash 6 due removal of weapon durability or he will be nerfed hard to make his tomes and Levin Sword now stay but ensure they won't be broken due above

 

[FalKoopa]

Actually, thinking about it... Unlimited weapon use seems a bit odd in the light of Robin's moveset, which revolves around making proper use of his tomes and sword. It seems almost counter-intuitive. EDIT:

As for Phoenix Mode, I think there's more to it than what has been said. Why would they make it that easy? Maybe we will see some Easy Mode Mockery in play.

 

[Drakonis]

CAN I GET SOME IGAVANIA LOVE UP IN THIS THREAD?!?!!!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/iga/bloodstained-ritual-of-the-night

Bloodstained will be awesome on the sole basis of having a character with my name with a design I like.

I'm also initially not keen on them removing weapon durability. That was a gigantic part of the planning aspect of the game. It doesn't look like they have anything directly replacing it, so that's more depth lost in the name of making things easier for casuals. Not too happy about that one.

Frankly, the biggest thing that limited weapon durability actually did in later FEs was giving the player a money sink. This can be accomplished by either making weapon upgrades more expansive or just handing out less cash to the player.
The second thing it did was making you afraid of using your good, rare weapons that couldn't be bought because you didn't know when/if you got another one. That was actually something bad IMO.
As for the planning aspect... well, yeah, you don't have to remember to restock you weapons anymore, but on the plus side, you don't have to remember to restock your weapons anymore. There's no challenge in that, it just forced you to check the menus more often.
Also, weapon upgrades will feel more significant and finding a rare weapon will be just straight up awesome.

(and the game will be even more akin to Shining Force).

I like it overall. It may take something that was traditionally Fire Emblem away, but it also shows that they are not afraid of changing things up.

Also, this is just my opinion. Of course there was some tactical and strategic value in having breakable weapons, but I think the pros of getting rid of it vastly outway the cons.

 

[Zantetsugun]

Knows nothing about the potential new effects weapons have, and thus ergo can mean choosing the right weapon, and not the right number, can be more important. Unless just stocking a front-liner with two stacks of Javelins really amounted to anything strategic... A strategy that works in literally every game eventually.

So you are implying that wanting more options for their players and wanting more people to be able to play their game somehow amounts to thinking little of the playerbase?

I get it, I get. You mean you think they are presuming that Fire Emblem fans are bad.

Well, yeah. A lot of the Awakening generation is certainly not any good at Fire Emblem if they struggled with a game like that... And there's nothing wrong with saying that. If they want to give veterans a real challenge this time, and have real difficulty, and chapters that take a wider range of solutions to solve, they can't have these increases in difficulty without absolutely demolishing their new, expanded fanbase. Nevermind people who are going to be starting from if alone.

A lower barrier of entry is a good thing. What matters is that the game is inviting enough on one spectrum, and punishingly, brutally hard (but fair) on the other.


I know, just your opinion. Well, this is mine.

Honestly, I feel that I made my previous comment in haste, so looking back on it I feel like kind of a d*ck. I agree with you that judging the lack of weapon durability without seeing what new mechanics will be added to balance it out is rather asinine. And while I still think Phoenix mode is just a little too much hand-holding, I have no qualms with IS trying to reach a broader audience.

 

[Hong]

In other news:

WarCraft III deemed bad after the discovery of greedisgood.

Contra scrub series because Konami code.

PC games are for casuals because you can become God in anything where your character is stored locally.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

Inb4 Robin will not be in Smash 6 due removal of weapon durability or he will be nerfed hard to make his tomes and Levin Sword now stay but ensure they won't be broken due above

Or worse Robin now has unlimited tomes and is now the OP character until the first patch.

Please understand.