Tiers? (Include an explaination)

[katanagash]

Top:

Pikachu
Kirby
Fox

Middle:

Captain Falcon
Mario
DK
Ness
Yoshi
Luigi
Jigglypuff

Low:

Samus
Link

 

[Wenbobular]

Care to explain?
Someone asked about Mario vs. Luigi - True, Luigi may have some small advantages in vertical distance, but I think Mario trumps him in recovering from a height as his fireballs travel downwards. Also, they both have such strong recoveries distancewise that it's usually not an issue.
The bigger thing is that Luigi is so floaty that he doesn't have many good combos startups on the shorter characters, and on the taller ones they're much more easily DI'd out of. Mario has a much better shorthop for shorthop Dair --> Uair etc. --> Uair chain --> finisher.

 

[Wenbobular]

Stupid lag.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

ness is 8

Alright so ive been thinking lately about ness' placement on the tier list and I believe he should be placed lower. I know that ness has some priority with his uair/nair/dair but his approaches are VERY limited in my opinion, sure he has some fancy djc bull**** to swing around but thats not really gonna get you anywhere.

Sure ness has a good throw...but thats all he has imo(except for dair->uair etc), knowing ness has a throw that is useful is nice but almost every other character has awesome grabs just like it except link/samus being useless for grabs.

Now recovering with ness lol.....this just asks for an auto-gimp.

So why is ness 3rd on the tier list again??...
I think he should just be placed lower on the tier list, but who has the power to do that?!!

 

[Surri-Sama]

Alright so ive been thinking lately about ness' placement on the tier list and I believe he should be placed lower. I know that ness has some priority with his uair/nair/dair but his approaches are VERY limited in my opinion, sure he has some fancy djc bull**** to swing around but thats not really gonna get you anywhere.

Sure ness has a good throw...but thats all he has imo(except for dair->uair etc), knowing ness has a throw that is useful is nice but almost every other character has awesome grabs just like it except link/samus being useless for grabs.

Now recovering with ness lol.....this just asks for an auto-gimp.

So why is ness 3rd on the tier list again??...
I think he should just be placed lower on the tier list, but who has the power to do that?!!

Everyone, the mass group of knowledgeable people have the ability to recreate the tier list, not officially of course, but if we'd put some thought behind it i bet we could reconfigure the tiers, and make them generally accepted

 

[OriginalVillain]

Why is Samus so low on the tiers? Samus has a great nair sex kick and bair and a pretty good meteor, extremely fast foward and down smashes, good projectiles, plus her running speed is really fast. Obviously the enormous jump and lightness are detriments, but she also has near infinite horizontal recover. I think Samus deserves a bit more credit.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Why is Samus so low on the tiers? Samus has a great nair sex kick and bair and a pretty good meteor, extremely fast foward and down smashes, good projectiles, plus her running speed is really fast. Obviously the enormous jump and lightness are detriments, but she also has near infinite horizontal recover. I think Samus deserves a bit more credit.

Dont forget how her mind games are great too


All good facts aside she has 2 MAJOR flaws

1) Her Throw sucks.

2) Her Combos are very low, ever get a 0-death with samus that WASNT situational (or even any non item, 0-death combo for that matter o.o;; ) all other chars have VAST ammounts of combos leaving her in the dust

 

[Wenbobular]

Near infinite horizontal my left buttcheek, it's not anything special.

 

[C. White]

Top:
Pikachu
Kirby
Fox

Middle:
Captain Falcon
Ness
Mario
Jigglypuff
Yoshi
DK
Luigi

Bottom:
Link
Samus

 

[OriginalVillain]

Good points Sirhc. Grabs really make a huge difference in smash 64, and the other characters do have insane combos compared to Samus.

I think the tiers should go

Top:
Pikachu
Kirby
Fox

Middle:
Captain Falcon
Ness
DK
Mario
Jigglypuff
Luigi
Yoshi

Bottom:
Samus
Link

 

[Zantetsu]

Lol... This is what happens when Gamefaqs makes the ssb64 tier list.

They **** it up so bad that it takes us forever to fix it XD

 

[_kSo_]

Lol... This is what happens when Gamefaqs makes the ssb64 tier list.

They **** it up so bad that it takes us forever to fix it XD

I agree. I dun remember if i put input but here is my take on the tier list

Top
Pika
Kirby
High
Fox/Falcon
Mario
Mid
Jigglypuff
Ness/Luigi
Low
Yoshi
DK
Bottom
Samus
Link

but it doesn't really matter as much as it does in melee because in ssb64 you can do a 0-death combo with any character against ALMOST every character

 

[Surri-Sama]

I agree. I dun remember if i put input but here is my take on the tier list

Top
Pika
Kirby
High
Fox/Falcon
Mario
Mid
Jigglypuff
Ness/Luigi
Low
Yoshi
DK
Bottom
Samus
Link

but it doesn't really matter as much as it does in melee because in ssb64 you can do a 0-death combo with any character against ALMOST every character

I find this tier pretty good but i think yoshi should be higher, maybe...

Top
Pika
Kirby
High
Fox/Falcon
Mario
Mid
Jigglypuff/Yoshi
Ness
Low
Luigi
DK
Bottom
Samus
Link

I think maybe DK could be higher too, but im not really in the mood to debate that (its to early to think)

 

[Zantetsu]

Its still hard to believe Link is at the very bottom when so many people use him XP

 

[Surri-Sama]

Its still hard to believe Link is at the very bottom when so many people use him XP

Its hard to believe the US voted for Bush, twice but its true, so believe it

Link has long range physical attacks and projectiles, samus has them both, but samus has low % very easy finishers so

 

[OriginalVillain]

I find this tier pretty good but i think yoshi should be higher, maybe...

Top
Pika
Kirby
High
Fox/Falcon
Mario
Mid
Jigglypuff/Yoshi
Ness
Low
Luigi
DK
Bottom
Samus
Link

I think maybe DK could be higher too, but im not really in the mood to debate that (its to early to think)

I like this one, but ness should definitally be higher, as should DK.

 

[CHUK]

Its hard to belive the US voted for Bush, twice but its true, so believe it

Link has mind games and projectiles, samus has them both, but samus has low % very easy finishers so

and the fact that he dies REALLY early from throws.

 

[Gammelnorsk]

I find this tier pretty good but i think yoshi should be higher, maybe...

Top
Pika
Kirby
High
Fox/Falcon
Mario
Mid
Jigglypuff/Yoshi
Ness
Low
Luigi
DK
Bottom
Samus
Link

I think maybe DK could be higher too, but im not really in the mood to debate that (its to early to think)

YA, THIS ONE IS PRETtY AWSOME.

 

[Surri-Sama]

I like this one, but ness should definitally be higher, as should DK.

I think Ness is justified, Ness's best ability (DJC) doesn't work incredibly well on light weight chars, which means he has a very big window, when it comes to countering him, and even though i have proved you can sweet spot Ness's third jump, it would still be easy to intercept for most chars

As for DK if you can provide where you think he should be, then support it, ill either agree or tell you why i think its wrong, me and someone already had this debate on this thread so i don't know how far it'll go.

and the fact that he dies REALLY early from throws.

So does Capitan falcon though, most chars can be incepted or spiked if the foe knows how to play, but remember these tiers don't include mind games (or else Kirby wouldn't be #2)

 

[Zantetsu]

We need to put the match up chart made by moogle into consideration while making this new list >: (

....... | Pi Ki Ne Fo CF Ji Ma Yo DK Lu Sa Li
--------+------------------------------------
Pikachu | -- 55 65 55 65 55 60 65 70 70 70 80
Kirby.. | 45 -- 60 60 65 55 60 65 65 60 65 75
Ness... | 35 40 -- 50 55 45 55 65 65 60 65 80
Fox.... | 45 40 50 -- 45 60 55 55 60 70 75 75
Falcon. | 35 35 45 55 -- 50 50 55 60 60 65 75
Jiggly. | 45 45 55 40 50 -- 45 55 55 35 40 60
Mario.. | 35 40 45 45 50 55 -- 55 55 55 60 70
Yoshi.. | 35 35 35 45 45 45 45 -- 55 55 65 70
DK..... | 30 35 35 40 40 50 45 45 -- 60 60 75
Luigi.. | 30 40 40 30 40 65 45 45 40 -- 55 55
Samus.. | 30 35 35 25 35 60 40 35 40 45 -- 50
Link... | 20 25 20 25 25 40 30 30 25 45 50 --

 

[Surri-Sama]

We need to put the match up chart into consideration while making this new list >: (

....... | Pi Ki Ne Fo CF Ji Ma Yo DK Lu Sa Li
--------+------------------------------------
Pikachu | -- 55 65 55 65 55 60 65 70 70 70 80
Kirby.. | 45 -- 60 60 65 55 60 65 65 60 65 75
Ness... | 35 40 -- 50 55 45 55 65 65 60 65 80
Fox.... | 45 40 50 -- 45 60 55 55 60 70 75 75
Falcon. | 35 35 45 55 -- 50 50 55 60 60 65 75
Jiggly. | 45 45 55 40 50 -- 45 55 55 35 40 60
Mario.. | 35 40 45 45 50 55 -- 55 55 55 60 70
Yoshi.. | 35 35 35 45 45 45 45 -- 55 55 65 70
DK..... | 30 35 35 40 40 50 45 45 -- 60 60 75
Luigi.. | 30 40 40 30 40 65 45 45 40 -- 55 55
Samus.. | 30 35 35 25 35 60 40 35 40 45 -- 50
Link... | 20 25 20 25 25 40 30 30 25 45 50 --

This is very sloppy, ill try to make one with details, and a simpler format, please be patient people

 

[Zantetsu]

This is very sloppy, ill try to make one with details, and a simpler format, please be patient people

*Blows up*

Lol, we should make it with color fades like the melee one. The bluer it is, they counter more and the more red like, they suck more.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=92025

 

[_kSo_]

*Blows up*

Lol, we should make it with color fades like the melee one. The bluer it is, they counter more and the more red like, they suck more.

is that a word?

lol

 

[Zantetsu]

is that a word?

lol

It is now >: (

lol

 

[Surri-Sama]

It is now >: (

lol

Well the way im planning it now, itll be done from scale 1-10, (including halfs so basicly 1-20) then ill colour code it based off that.

Ill post it once i get more opinions and insight about char match-ups and such, if anyone wants to help, pm me or msg me on msn, and ill send you a link to the basic frame work for this chart

gokomaster@hotmail.com

 

[moogle]

Maybe we could get a bunch of people to submit tier lists, then average them together.

And my matchup chart certainly isn't gospel. Though if Surri/Sirhc (and more people?) wanna make your own character matchup chart, then we could average the charts together and make a more accurate one. :x

 

[Surri-Sama]

Maybe we could get a bunch of people to submit tier lists, then average them together.

And my matchup chart certainly isn't gospel. Though if Surri/Sirhc (and more people?) wanna make your own character matchup chart, then we could average the charts together and make a more accurate one. :x

Exactly, that was my idea when i posted that the mass public, does control the tiers so we could put them together for more accuracy

Im working on mine now with a few other people so ill probley have it done by friday...saturday at the latest

 

[Wenbobular]

How does one average tier lists together?
Besides, if we had all the random noobs in the world who don't know how to play make their tier list and submit it, should they be counted among the more "informed" people?

 

[Surri-Sama]

How does one average tier lists together?
Besides, if we had all the random noobs in the world who don't know how to play make their tier list and submit it, should they be counted among the more "informed" people?

Nope why would they be, thats just foolish

 

[moogle]

To average tier lists... make a first place vote worth 12 points... a second place vote worth 11 points... etc. Then add up all the points each character gets. Then you'll have something like:

Pikachu (118 points)
Kirby (107 points)
etc. etc.

Then find where there are large point gaps, and group them into different tiers.

 

[UltiMario]

*decides to look here for the first time*
People are still greatly arguing on Smash 64 tiers? Wow. This is a thread from ALL THE WAYS back in 2002, and its still goin. This greatly suprises me......
We have an agreeable Melee list, but an arguable 64 one?
Wow

 

[Sensei]

Tier discussion are always ongoing even in Melee. People will always have different opinions and ideas.

BTW my list is

Pika
Kirby

Fox/Falcon
Ness

too lazy to post reasons right now.
Rest don't really matter to me excpet for link who should be higher than Samus and Samus is at the bottom.

 

[Zantetsu]

*decides to look here for the first time*
People are still greatly arguing on Smash 64 tiers? Wow. This is a thread from ALL THE WAYS back in 2002, and its still goin. This greatly suprises me......
We have an agreeable Melee list, but an arguable 64 one?
Wow

Thread hasn't been going since 02. Someone probably bumped it in 07 somewhere in this thread.

Like sensei said, melee list is always going.

and we don't have near as much players for ssb64 as there is for melee so theres not many tournaments to base the tiers off of.

Your acting like were stupid when really, were trying to make a final tier list so we don't have to keep changing over and over like the melee one.

 

[Wenbobular]

Nope why would they be, thats just foolish

Well my point is, who's opinions would you take? If we could decide on that then it should be a fairly simple process for them to debate it out at some point and come up with a tier list.
By the way Sensei, that's the scariest sig I've ever seen

 

[Surri-Sama]

Well my point is, who's opinions would you take? If we could decide on that then it should be a fairly simple process for them to debate it out at some point and come up with a tier list.
By the way Sensei, that's the scariest sig I've ever seen

haha i can tell when a person's opinion is bais or unaccurate so we can leave it to our better judgment...


And your right, thats one mean Sig :o

 

[Wenbobular]

haha i can tell when a person's opinion is bais or unaccurate so we can leave it to our better judgment...


And your right, thats one mean Sig :o

Perhaps you and some of the experienced smashers know what you're talking about, but what if we get a massive wave of people like those gents from Britain who thought that playing at 200% damage with like, 15 lives was excellentsauce (they were pretty hilarious by the way )? Will we turn be a democracy where the majority rules? A republic where the people elect someone amongst the gents from Britain to represent us? Or will we be ruled by the elites, the people who think (and probably do) know Smash better than the average smasher?

I guess this discussion is moot because there's probably only around like, 10 people on the boards who know the game well enough while the rest of the population that frequents the forums are curious Smashers trying to learn SSB or crazy vocal Britons.

Bah, who cares? Can we just give Isai this question and see what he comes up with if he's willing?

 

[Surri-Sama]

Perhaps you and some of the experienced smashers know what you're talking about, but what if we get a massive wave of people like those gents from Britain who thought that playing at 200% damage with like, 15 lives was excellentsauce (they were pretty hilarious by the way )? Will we turn be a democracy where the majority rules? A republic where the people elect someone amongst the gents from Britain to represent us? Or will we be ruled by the elites, the people who think (and probably do) know Smash better than the average smasher?

I guess this discussion is moot because there's probably only around like, 10 people on the boards who know the game well enough while the rest of the population that frequents the forums are curious Smashers trying to learn SSB or crazy vocal Britons.

Bah, who cares? Can we just give Isai this question and see what he comes up with if he's willing?

lol your complicating a simple problem to a huge extent :o

All we do is take the knowlage of the people WE know (do you knwo any one who knwos anything about smash? ) and put it together and see how the public responds?

 

[Vex Kasrani]

My tier list

Pika
Fox / Falcon / Kirby

everybody else


I think fox, falcon, and kirby are all tied for that second position because all 3 of them are so full of ****, even thou kirby sux >

This is a joke post btw, The tier list and its positions in my opinion should be based off of match ups, like which characters has the most good match ups.

 

[_kSo_]

Perhaps you and some of the experienced smashers know what you're talking about, but what if we get a massive wave of people like those gents from Britain who thought that playing at 200% damage with like, 15 lives was excellentsauce (they were pretty hilarious by the way )? Will we turn be a democracy where the majority rules? A republic where the people elect someone amongst the gents from Britain to represent us? Or will we be ruled by the elites, the people who think (and probably do) know Smash better than the average smasher?

I guess this discussion is moot because there's probably only around like, 10 people on the boards who know the game well enough while the rest of the population that frequents the forums are curious Smashers trying to learn SSB or crazy vocal Britons.

Bah, who cares? Can we just give Isai this question and see what he comes up with if he's willing?

Those british guys were from the future - they were forewarning us about brawl by suggesting an idea to make ssb64 more like brawl (well at least the no combo-ing part of brawl )

 

[Wenbobular]

Those british guys were from the future - they were forewarning us about brawl by suggesting an idea to make ssb64 more like brawl (well at least the no combo-ing part of brawl )

I never looked at it that way
And yes Sirhc, I enjoy complicating simple things.