Tier List Speculation

[Mr.Pickle]

I can understand your stance on the method he gets it, but it's not to the same standard as ivy's or wario's moves, since it isn't going to be killing anything anytime soon, nor does it have the utility as the other two. Once again, pretty good move, but it isn't something to be raising a stern eyebrow towards.

 

[KakuCP9]

it isn't going to be killing anything anytime soon.

Try telling that to someone trying to get back on stage (though to be honest, gyro is a bigger culprit for this). Nevertheless I agree with you since laser has a cool down period where it's damn near useless and isn't blowing up people at low percentages when at max power.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Oh trust me, I know that all too well, I've got a good amount of rob experience under my belt. Rob is probably one of the few characters that has wario's number off stage.

 

[Frost | Odds]

I'd love to know where you place him and your thoughts on his current state in 3.6

Tough to say with the lack of really good pika players; but my best guess is somewhere just north of the middle of the pack. My best guess atm is that he's similar in viability to ZSS: got a couple really rough matchups, but overall is an extremely solid pick with a varied enough toolset to deal with most anything.

 

[redbeanjelly]

Hey, can someone tell me why ROB's SideB was reverted back to its 3.5 version? (where it actually moves forward instead of standing still) Not making any claim about its balance or anything, it just seemed like a peculiar case of the DT completely backtracking on a change they've made.

 

[Deleted member]

The feedback received on 3.6b Side B was very obviously negative. We looked over the move and realized that the direction we went with it was incorrect, and reverted to a slightly nerfed version of 3.5s Side B.

I would not consider it as backtracking, since that would imply we are losing progress. I would consider the current version of 3.6 Side B to be a step in the right direction.

 

[CORY]

The feedback received on 3.6b Side B was very obviously negative. We looked over the move and realized that the direction we went with it was incorrect, and reverted to a slightly nerfed version of 3.5s Side B.

I would not consider it as backtracking, since that would imply we are losing progress. I would consider the current version of 3.6 Side B to be a step in the right direction.

No way, man. Don't you know pmdt only knows nerfs?

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Not really, no. Unless you'd say the same of Marth or Peach, at which point the same would be true of... almost anyone?


This is closer to the truth, but you're overestimating how badly he suffers for it. Putting Mewtwo in the corner and keeping him there isn't exactly easy. Look instead to characters that can not only maintain pressure, but make it difficult for him to take positional advantage against them. This is a big part of why matchups like Tink, Wolf, and Falcon are relatively difficult, while matchups against characters like Marth or Link are more favorable.

Except Mewtwo has a hard time getting stage control against a lot of characters. Of course, I use Wolf and Tink, so that's another story, but I know for a fact that Mewtwo loses to MK and spacies as well. He has a crap approach with a poor wavedash/dashdance, slow run speed, poor shffl, and poor shield pressure. Personally, I believe Marth beats Mewtwo, and I wouldn't call his matchup against Link favourable either, although I can see them being "more favourable" than those against spacies and tink. And yeah, it was wrong to say that he loses neutral too easy for getting baited out. But what I meant was that relying on dtilts, ftilts, jc grabs and shadow balls in neutral means he has a poor approach and also doesn't have the best defence either, since he's so slow.

 

[InfinityCollision]

I know for a fact that Mewtwo loses to MK and spacies as well.

For a fact? Do tell.

I've held MK as even for a while now. Frozen also thinks it's even. Mewtwo beats Falco and I'd honestly argue he goes ~even with Fox; Frozen said the same in 3.5 and I wouldn't say 3.6 shifted either matchup significantly. Falco might be slightly closer to even than in 3.5 but that's about it.

approach

Such an odd word to use when talking about Smash.

poor wavedash

What? And his DD isn't that bad. Not something to use constantly but that's fine, he's not a DD-based character. It does what it needs to do. The early frames shift his hurtboxes quite favorably.

poor shffl

Good thing hover exists.

poor shield pressure

Are we defining "poor shield pressure" as "anything worse than spacies shield pressure"?

Personally, I believe Marth beats Mewtwo, and I wouldn't call his matchup against Link favourable either

Pretty comfortable saying Mewtwo beats both. Certainly doesn't lose to either one.

shadow balls in neutral

Not exactly what I'd consider an integral part of his neutral, no. Dtilt sure, ftilt kinda, grab sure, jab/aerials/movementisthecoreofneutral where?

 

[Droß]

And complaining about a character having different traits then what you're used to and claiming said character carries a player sounds more like salt and MU inexperience more then anything.

Instead of my standard MO of claiming Oli isn't as bad people think he is, why do people who say he's bad think so? Hell, while I'm at it, would people who post their list provide reasoning? Might help avoid knee jerks sarcastic remarks from this thread and/or clear things up.

I was talking from the perspective of someone who would be salty about Peach's traits. I don't really care what characters do and don't have; I'll learn to deal with it eventually.

 

[DrinkingFood]

ROB's full charge laser doesn't kill unless you get an offstage snipe, which isn't guaranteed without a good set-up
I'm pretty sure it's weaker than most tilts
also doesn't have appreciable shield stun, or push back, or shield damage, and the hitbox is ****ing tiny even when fully charged
funny that you could criticize a laser that's so bad in neutral (it's better to just let it charge in neutral rather than waste it unless you really need to disrupt the opponent picking up gyro or something) unless it's fully charged, at which point you could get a knockdown at a distance to take some stage positioning... except you'll never hit a competent player because it has 24 frames of start-up for the close hitbox, and the full charge laser travels much slower
it's not a bad move, but it's not good in neutral; laser is a punish tool primarily, if you have a problem with characters having good punish tools, get in line behind Lucas, GnW, Snake, Falco Fox, in fact a whole ******* **** **ton of characters who just punish obscenely hard

 

[tasteless gentleman]

I think olimars recovery holds him back really bad, outside of that I really like him

 

[KakuCP9]

I honestly have no idea why Drinking food got infracted. His logic was sound and he wasn't being overly rude aside from using some colourful (though censored) language.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

I honestly have no idea why Drinking food got infracted. His logic was sound and he wasn't being overly rude aside from using some colourful (though censored) language.

I was about to post the same thing. Rob knowledge was needed and he delivered, not the most clean way of putting it, but the point got across fairly respectfully. Let's be honest, most of us here are at least 18+, or at least mature enough to handle foul language.

 

[Player -0]

I mean. If Pit's and Robs nB got a little bit of spacie laser treatment that would be cool lol. The one hitbox (granted interpolation exists). Not the whole move should be covered but a tad more would be nice lol.

Also Lucas' kit is interesting. I feel like he depends on the sourspot and sweetspot of moves depending on percent and character. I don't take back the fact that D Tilt is really broken right now (in the bad way. Like it doesn't work broken).

 

[Life]

Since DF's post has been edited, I was under the assumption that something got edited out by the mods. As it stands, it's really not that bad.

Pit arrows already decay over distance if that's what you're talking about. Or are you talking about the hitbox being small? Because while I think making arrow's hitbox bigger would encourage more people to play Pit (because the hardest thing about him is aiming arrows and that would make that dramatically easier) I'm not certain it's the best for overall balance. Remember how we were all complaining that fatties were bad for a litany of reasons that happened to include "more difficult to avoid projectiles due to increased hurtbox size?"

 

[DrinkingFood]

the language wasn't censored originally lol
thank goodness mods have to manually go through and censor something everytime someone avoids the censor rather than just giving everybody a button so they can choose to censor everything themselves, amirite, @ Warchamp7 ?

 

[PlateProp]

ROB's full charge laser doesn't kill unless you get an offstage snipe, which isn't guaranteed without a good set-up
I'm pretty sure it's weaker than most tilts
also doesn't have appreciable shield stun, or push back, or shield damage, and the hitbox is ****ing tiny even when fully charged
funny that you could criticize a laser that's so bad in neutral (it's better to just let it charge in neutral rather than waste it unless you really need to disrupt the opponent picking up gyro or something) unless it's fully charged, at which point you could get a knockdown at a distance to take some stage positioning... except you'll never hit a competent player because it has 24 frames of start-up for the close hitbox, and the full charge laser travels much slower
it's not a bad move, but it's not good in neutral; laser is a punish tool primarily, if you have a problem with characters having good punish tools, get in line behind Lucas, GnW, Snake, Falco Fox, in fact a whole fuck*** shit **ton of characters who just punish obscenely hard

I just dont think he should get it for free. Idk why you're getting all worked up about it. You didn't even address that part which was the main issue being discussed at the time

 

[DrinkingFood]

didn't know I was getting all worked up about it. Thanks for that insight into my mind from across the internet, plate

he gets it for free because it's not good enough to be worth charging manually, and because he already has gyro charging/acquisition to worry about, but it's slightly too good to get it back instantly

 

[PlateProp]

didn't know I was getting all worked up about it. Thanks for that insight into my mind from across the internet, plate

he gets it for free because it's not good enough to be worth charging manually, and because he already has gyro charging/acquisition to worry about, but it's slightly too good to get it back instantly

All mental insight services are free until I recieve my degree

I disagree with it not being good enough to manually charge. Most other characters with charge projectiles hardly use them for neutral (Zamus and maybe the Links are all I can really think of, and these characters dont even get to store charge) either. There should just be some amount of risk to Rob accumulating his laser other than "oh he cant use it for a little bit after he shoots" even if it's not a super huge risk.

 

[Warchamp7]

the language wasn't censored originally lol
thank goodness mods have to manually go through and censor something everytime someone avoids the censor rather than just giving everybody a button so they can choose to censor everything themselves, amirite, @ Warchamp7 ?

The system already censors stuff automatically like **** **** ****

If you're worried about the censor not catching a word and getting infracted, maybe you should't use that word :o :o :o

 

[InfinityCollision]

e: nevermind

 

[Avro-Arrow]

For a fact? Do tell.

I've held MK as even for a while now. Frozen also thinks it's even. Mewtwo beats Falco and I'd honestly argue he goes ~even with Fox; Frozen said the same in 3.5 and I wouldn't say 3.6 shifted either matchup significantly. Falco might be slightly closer to even than in 3.5 but that's about it.


Such an odd word to use when talking about Smash.


What? And his DD isn't that bad. Not something to use constantly but that's fine, he's not a DD-based character. It does what it needs to do. The early frames shift his hurtboxes quite favorably.


Good thing hover exists.


Are we defining "poor shield pressure" as "anything worse than spacies shield pressure"?


Pretty comfortable saying Mewtwo beats both. Certainly doesn't lose to either one.


Not exactly what I'd consider an integral part of his neutral, no. Dtilt sure, ftilt kinda, grab sure, jab/aerials/movementisthecoreofneutral where?

Let me start off by saying I clearly don't know as much about this character as you do, and go from there. His DD is for sure one of the weaker ones in the game, and yeah he leans forward which can help make him effectively shorter, but he is still a large target. And no, I'm not defining poor shield pressure as anything worse than spacies' shield pressure, but it should be put into perspective with other characters. So if this means that Mewtwo is compared to spacies (and other characters) then so be it.

Of course movement and aerials are part of neutral. I'd have thought that would've gone without saying. But Mewtwo tends to start his conversions (in most situations) off of the moves I listed. It's the basic root of the character. How I see hover is that it's mostly only good to pressure shield or punish endlag since it's a risky option.

About the approach: I think it's pretty unreasonable to discount the importance of approaching entirely. Even though it's not the most important attribute, it is still another tool. And having varied and flexible tools to get a combo is what makes Fox in Melee better than DK, for example.

MK: I should have watched my mouth considering that even back in 3.0 that matchup was considered even. Sure the matchup's changed slightly but it's pretty fleshed out nonetheless. I can see Falco losing to Mewtwo. I wasn't very careful in how I typed my message. I wasn't aware someone would be dissecting each of its components individually. I get it that you're trying to be sarcastic to get your point across but I'd appreciate it if you didn't in the future. It's a bit of a putdown and it's not cool dude.

I'd be much obliged if you were to explain exactly why Mewtwo goes even with Fox. I don't need to hear about Mewtwo's punishes and edgeguards because I already get that aspect, but an explanation of how Mewtwo answers Fox stuff overall would be appreciated as I haven't actually used Mewtwo against a real Fox, and only in friendlies.

Bear in mind that if I sound like an idiot it's almost four in the morning here :/

 

[DrinkingFood]

The system already censors stuff automatically like **** **** ****

If you're worried about the censor not catching a word and getting infracted, maybe you should't use that word :o :o :o

I'm not worried about infractions. I'm worried about the act of words being censored. Is it really that hard to understand? It doesn't censor stuff automatically if I decide to avoid censor, which I will because idc about infractions, which effectively means more virgin eyes or whatever have to see my dirty dirty language. Meanwhile if there were an optional censor switch (on by default) I wouldn't need to dodge the censor and it would work properly the first time for anyone that keeps it engaged, and I wouldn't try to censor dodge. I'm sorry, but asterisks don't get any kind of feeling across. You can keep deflecting and say "Oh, you shouldn't use/don't need those words/if you need those words your vocab is weak/etc!" But it's only an indicator that the lack of a censor switch is a product of laziness, not any conviction that makes sense.

sorry strong bad, infract me for this off topic post lmao.

 

[steelguttey]

I think olimars recovery holds him back really bad, outside of that I really like him

this is the same logic ppl had for making him bottom tier in 3.5 and honestly did it really make sense? could a ****ing recovery really hold someone back that hard? look at sheik, she should never be coming back to stage ever. she isnt the most used character for other reasons, but come on i think one aspect of a character cant make them that bad. i know you arent saying that olimar is bottom tier but i just wanted to bring that up.

 

[nimigoha]

One thing's for certain.

His Up B is so slow that it makes ledge teching ridiculously easy to time.

Did it 6 times in a row against a Marth Fsmash yesterday.

 

[1FD]

I'd be much obliged if you were to explain exactly why Mewtwo goes even with Fox. I don't need to hear about Mewtwo's punishes and edgeguards because I already get that aspect, but an explanation of how Mewtwo answers Fox stuff overall would be appreciated as I haven't actually used Mewtwo against a real Fox, and only in friendlies.

Peach works against characters like Fox off the way that she is permanently a giant hitbox because they never have lag and they all hit hard and that type of thing
Mewtwo is that but moving around really fast and on sticks that cover more distance

this is the same logic ppl had for making him bottom tier in 3.5 and honestly did it really make sense? could a ****ing recovery really hold someone back that hard? look at sheik, she should never be coming back to stage ever. she isnt the most used character for other reasons, but come on i think one aspect of a character cant make them that bad. i know you arent saying that olimar is bottom tier but i just wanted to bring that up.

His dtilt and dash attack and nair piss me off
too strong too good

Tough to say with the lack of really good pika players; but my best guess is somewhere just north of the middle of the pack. My best guess atm is that he's similar in viability to ZSS: got a couple really rough matchups, but overall is an extremely solid pick with a varied enough toolset to deal with most anything.

Pika can run up into dtilt into back side of uair into upb through you into a uair/grab/utilt/bair mixup in like less than 1 frame
it's craycray

yeah you can wavescuttle in both directions but doing it facing left requires a one frame backwards crawl input which I've seen done on tas but I've personally never been able to do it

I learned about it from @ 1FD ask him for more info

wavescuttling is on my list of "movement tech that would be really cool and fun to be able to do consistently" along with perfect waveland dropdashes, b-reversed vududashes, and really silly stuff like optimal tumbledashes

I'm late and smashboards is wack right now but yeah scuttling for some reason people call it the thing you do where you crawl across the whole stage but it should really be known as that 1 frame direction (1fd lol) changing a wavedash using crawl so you go back and forth while using moves but whatever

also I should figure out that brawl pivot thing that @Dakpo talked about and I want to see how it relates to luigi


edit: I really want to be a sort of nausicaa disciple and learn all that he has to teach but I'm scared because he's much smarter than I am and I didn't respond to his last message and I have literal anxiety issues about talking to him about meditation which meditation ironically would probably help

something rich man camel eye of a needle something

edit: page 911 shoutout to m2k

Just do vipassana seriously
It's the end-game of mental practice. Everything from mental exercises or intellectual stuff or yoga stuff or whatever else all leads here and then this kicks your ass after it all that because nobody is ever ready for the final boss of the mind.
Google it and find a center near you and GO
It's 10 days for a course, no $ or anything either cause it's free but you can donate AFTER you take a course if you WANT to
and they'll have food and sleeping stuff and it's designed that anyone can go and be a monk/nun for 10 days and learn the tool that you can learn the end-game tech that allows you to do whatever the **** you want all dai ery dai
I'm going again in like Feb again or something like that



i donno how to multiquote so doing the old thing


this forum is too hard for me PEACE

oh and before PEACE I gotta say 1 thing about Waft
It's scary after 1 min of charge because it can be a kill around then even and middish-high percents just like the way Wolf sideb is
Wolf sideb doesn't have to kill people right into the side of the blastzone you just gotta hit them with it at like 70 or so it doesn't even matter. Even if it's against Rob or Samus they're still in a terrible spot ready to lose the stock let alone against anyone from Link to MK who are practically dead if you clip them with that move at 60 or so (which would deal up to 70/80 after the sideb hits), and it's the same deal with Waft every 1 min.

Also with Rob laser it can be used undercharged and stuff while landing the way Samus can use her uncharged shot to cover herself on landing or whatever. Rob can airdash and laser moving in weird directions and shoot in the other direction if he wants, and it's annoying how it covers ground/area and he can't really be punished and it locks crap down. Same way other stuff does, it's actually a super useful niche move outside of basic ending of punishes and edgeguarding stuff.

 

[robosteven]

His dtilt and dash attack and nair piss me off
too strong too good

shield

edit: noticed the Puff main icon, can't tell if serious but if it is

sorry dawg the Oli MU hard

 

[1FD]

shield

edit: noticed the Puff main icon, can't tell if serious but if it is

sorry dawg the Oli MU hard

Jiggs bair and rest?

Just shield

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Everytime someone mentions Jiggs I remember HBox defeating Pro

Y'know the guy that took sets of Armada's 3.0 Pit

And I realize I know nothing about this game's MUs

I go into this spiralling panic of "But Jiggs has to lose to Snake ... right? RIGHT???"

 

[1FD]

I can completely understand that and even I thought jiggs was pretty much bad for a long time despite all some of my locals telling me she wasn't
Locally a lot of people have always considered shiek to be the worst of the melee characters who were kept the same but I think that was mostly due to our local guru influencing us all too much and we didn't actually understand it. Like comon we have a melee shiek that has taken sets off mangos fox and we're getting destroyed by everybody ELSE they use way harder than shiek and they say every character in the game is a beast? Sheik must be the least beast

But I'm starting to get it now
PM is hard with so many characters able to DO THINGS

robosteven I dabble in her in pm cause I did in melee and I'm probably better at pm so it's basically the same thing just less fox and more other characters
Oli hurts just like against everyone
He dtilted under my Ike grab once WHY

 

[DMG]

Don't see the char or strong mains = GG I unno how good it is x ~25ish chars atm

 

[robosteven]

robosteven I dabble in her in pm cause I did in melee and I'm probably better at pm so it's basically the same thing just less fox and more other characters
Oli hurts just like against everyone
He dtilted under my Ike grab once WHY[/QUOTE]
Fighting Olimar is hard and I don't know how to explain it.

Unless you're playing Fox or Ivy to name a couple, if you're away from Olimar then he's winning. If you're on top of him, keep ****ing hitting him did I say stop no I didn't continue hitting him yeah that's right you like that don't you now he's offstage just poke him poke him again wait he's recovery high oh yeah that's his only mixup option with jetpack so expect him either to recovery low or predictably high and just hit him oh look he's dead

If you can easily get in against him, it's a free matchup. Learning the matchup in Oli's case is simply learning how to get in, which is hard, but if you have a method like lasers to negate his campy playstyle he can't win by running away so you can just bait and punish him.

 

[SunJester]

Well Jiggs barely touches the ground, making it harder to control space for Snake. She's hard to combo so one would assume sticky set ups would be harder for him. Also she has incredible air mobility to weave in when she wants to, plus Snake has ass air mobility so that would make it harder for him to challenge her.

I don't know I feel like the fact she doesn't need to commit to things as much would make it a really rough matchup for Snake.


Also on the subject of Oli's recovery, at least you know its going to work 100% of the time. Regardless if you make it back to the stage you're not randomly dying from weird tether problems. I think the lack of consistency from his tether recovery was the reason he was bottom tier, every time you threw it out you couldn't be sure if it would work. Now you can be certain he's going to gain vertical height at least.

 

[steelguttey]

also with the tether there is a guaranteed edgeguard in every situation where he isnt recovering high always which is grab ledge and then hit him again. tethers that arent zss blow

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Basically, Ivy's tether sucks. Zss has tons of mixups to make it manageable and now that Oli doesn't have one, she is the only other b tier. Sure, z tethers, but they have a normal up b as their main recovery, the tether is just a luxury "get me back on the ledge, now" tool.

 

[FlashingFire]

Everytime someone mentions Jiggs I remember HBox defeating Pro

Y'know the guy that took sets of Armada's 3.0 Pit

And I realize I know nothing about this game's MUs

I go into this spiralling panic of "But Jiggs has to lose to Snake ... right? RIGHT???"

I watched that set. It was very clear that HBox was comfortable comboing Prof and spacing around grenades. Meanwhile Prof looked less comfortable in the comboing/spacing department, and when Snake has to work harder to get kills than the opponent does, Snake will have problems. That's not to say Snake can't punish the crap out of Jiggs (3-hit Dair > Ftilt > repeat until Utilt KOs is actually a true combo without proper SDI, C4 and mines KO at ludicrous percents, etc), but Prof was not doing too well at it during that set. Heck, he's been a tad rusty at PM in general.

I still think Snake beats Jiggs, though not by a whole lot. Prof got outplayed.

 

[Saproling]

Basically, Ivy's tether sucks. Zss has tons of mixups to make it manageable and now that Oli doesn't have one, she is the only other b tier. Sure, z tethers, but they have a normal up b as their main recovery, the tether is just a luxury "get me back on the ledge, now" tool.

I don't think anyone needs a reminder of how bad Ivy is.

 

[InfinityCollision]

His DD is for sure one of the weaker ones in the game

I would agree that it's slightly subpar, but mostly because his options out of it are relatively limited. He has the longest dash->run time in the game, and his dash speed limits the potential of his pivot game. Pivot jabs/tilts are still a good, if underused, option.

I'm not defining poor shield pressure as anything worse than spacies' shield pressure, but it should be put into perspective with other characters.

Okay.

All of Mewtwo's aerials sans nair are positive on block when HC'd. Nair is -5 on weak hits and -2 on the final hitbox. Non-HC nair is -9 on block but can autocancel out of a short hop, bringing it back to -2. Fair is -0, uair is -3, bair is -7, dair -0. There is a bug regarding the use of multiple aerials during hover, but the PMDT is aware of this and it's generally not too significant in the meantime.

Jab1 is -5 on block, dtilt is -10. Both have good range and slight disjoint.

Think of it like Peach's shield pressure. There are limits to how long she can keep any part of it going, but while it's going it's safe enough that you have to respect it. When you mix up what you're doing and how you keep it going, it's rather effective.

Of course movement and aerials are part of neutral. I'd have thought that would've gone without saying.

I could say the same of grabs.

But Mewtwo tends to start his conversions (in most situations) off of the moves I listed.

Shadow Ball doesn't start conversions, it finishes them. Ftilt is a spacing/get off me poke that can set up edgeguard situations. Uthrow is only an effective combo tool against fastfallers, the percent range in which it works is limited, and on the higher end of that range you can only follow up if you use teleport. It'll kill eventually, sure, but he has better options. If you kill with uthrow, they lived too long on that stock. Dthrow techchases fast and mid-fallers, but his techchase game is somewhat limited. Against floaties it's basically just position/damage. Think of it as a higher damage, somewhat laggy version of Marth's fthrow. Fthrow/bthrow are obviously positional. His command grab is his only consistently rewarding grab option, though the risk in using it is balanced accordingly.

Meanwhile there was no mention of jab1, fair, nair, or uair, all of which are solid options for conversions. Even utilt, which is decently rewarding but not exactly safe, arguably deserves a mention over ftilt or Shadow Ball.

How I see hover is that it's mostly only good to pressure shield or punish endlag since it's a risky option.

You can put out an HC aerial with just 9-10 frames of total airtime if your execution is on point. Learning to use hover in ways that minimize the risk of trades is part of the gig with Mewtwo.

About the approach: I think it's pretty unreasonable to discount the importance of approaching entirely.

Moreso that the concepts and thought processes usually attached to the word "approaching" don't really have a place in Smash. Fox for example, since you brought him up: his strength lies in his ability to 1) conditionally avoid engagement while forcing the opponent into action and 2) punish errors with a high degree of efficiency thanks to highly effective pressure and rewarding combo options.

Mewtwo plays a mixture of pressure and punishment while using his own positioning options to play around the opponent's attempts at advancing their own gameplan. When examined from this viewpoint, you'll find that Mewtwo certainly has varied and flexible tools to work with.

I'd be much obliged if you were to explain exactly why Mewtwo goes even with Fox. I don't need to hear about Mewtwo's punishes and edgeguards because I already get that aspect, but an explanation of how Mewtwo answers Fox stuff overall would be appreciated as I haven't actually used Mewtwo against a real Fox, and only in friendlies.

1FD has the right idea. A large part of the skew in the Peach v Fox matchup is Fox's superior mobility and ability to laser camp the hell out of her given the opportunity. That advantage is greatly reduced against Mewtwo thanks to his faster, albeit more committed, mobility options. His coverage is a little different with changes in frame data/range/hitbox placement and properties, but combined with his movement options you have the general pressure/punishment/positioning concept I described above.

 

[Player -0]

Life I mean the trail of the arrow. Compare to spacie laser. It's not necessary but it's kind of funny how it's 1 tiny hitbox.

Also tfw Fox's Up Smash jumps over Roy's D Tilt and you miss conversion :l