Tier List Speculation

[Soft Serve]

Why can't we just start now? The smash 4 kids did it
3.5- softie's tire lust adventure:
wolf
pika
weegee
shiek
fox
diddy
zard
no one else will matter

 

[Spralwers]

I find it frustrating that I have to map Z -> Attack to use DACUS

Just switch to claw style to dacus.

 

[SpiderMad]

Just switch to claw style to dacus.

He mentioned he does that (temporary claw to DACUS and back). I thought it was too weird to do at first, but it's somehow decent.

 

[Jolteon]

Temp claw is fine when you get used to it, I do it for a bunch of things.

 

[SpiderMad]

Temp claw is fine when you get used to it, I do it for a bunch of things.

Like what besides DACUS? I think Mango does it to get "crispy" Ledge hop DLs (Thumb B Index Y), but I'd rather use normal with thumb Y to B.

 

[Soft Serve]

Like what besides DACUS? I think Mango does it to get "crispy" Ledge hop DLs.

Tai claws to do shield-breaker re-grabs from the ledge. Mango/M2k also have said they claw up-throw Uairs at higher percents to get the double jump as fast as possible
I know a lot of peach players claw so they can float and use the c-stick

 

[Jolteon]

Like what besides DACUS? I think Mango does it to get "crispy" Ledge hop DLs (Thumb B Index Y), but I'd rather use normal with thumb Y to B.

uthrow -> uair, instant sh ac uairs, JC usmash, TL's bomb ledge regrab.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Why can't we just start now? The smash 4 kids did it
3.5- softie's tire lust adventure:
Wolf
CF
no one else will matter

FTFY

I'd play that game.

JC usmash.

waitwaitwaitwait, are you playing toon link with tap jump off?

edit edit: "How was kindergarten Zach?" was the best burn I've read in months

 

[Deleted member]

It was a good burn but... its pretty overused because I CONSTANTLY get age jokes.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Must suck to have your entire goddamn life ahead of you >=[

 

[Rᴏb]

They must be getting pretty old.

Unlike y- *shot*

 

[SpiderMad]

uthrow -> uair, instant sh ac uairs, JC usmash, TL's bomb ledge regrab.

SH AC Uairs with who?

 

[Jolteon]

SH AC Uairs with who?

I did it with Sheik when I was learning how to do NTSC dthrow -> sh ac uair vs Luigi at low percents without getting nair'd. I've started using in more situations since then with other characters, I actually can't say when off the top of my head since its muscle memory and I just subconsciously do it, lol.

 

[JANKX]

Mario players will just play the game because they don't give a good goddamn about no tiers.

Damn straight!

 

[Deleted member]

Dedede, Sheik, and Wario players will troll the boards for subsequent months about how their characters 'need buffs', and "aren't good enough at gimping yet", and start a Twitter trend of #toldyouso with pictures of Wario pasted on inanimate objects.

as a sheik player, apparently i'm the only person that thinks shes ****ing incredible

twitter is for scrubs

 

[Strong Badam]

guess I'm a scrub

 

[Deleted member]

sheik is one of the few characters in 3.02 that can still actually gimp characters

 

[Player -0]

Can we bring up M2 again because he pertains to the topic and he's super borrked.

 

[Deleted member]

sheik is one of the few characters in 3.02 that can still actually gimp characters

i guess i should put up some recordings for you, you'd like my gimps man.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Can we bring up M2 again because he pertains to the topic and he's super borrked.

I think Mewtwo's going to either hate 3.5 and/or get a complete reboot. His viability and subsequent brokenness at peak play hinges on a very limited number of options (not that his other tools aren't good, but they're small components in a bigger machine), all of which are prime targets for the nerfbat but also very sensitive to small changes. It'll be interesting to see if the PMDT can simultaneously 1) make balanced changes 2) retain a non-broken form of his current playstyle and 3) maintain or increase his already very high skill celing.

 

[steelguttey]

yes guys lets keep recycling topics

who wants to talk about diddy kong? bananas amirite hahahhaaa

or maybe lets talk about how ivysaur is so polarizing that when i play against her i gravitate to the north and south sides of the screen hahahaaaaa

or how fox and falco are perfect and dont need to be nerfed hahahhahahahahahhaha

 

[Deleted member]

frankly i think falco is fine atm

 

[InfinityCollision]

yes guys lets keep recycling topics

who wants to talk about diddy kong? bananas amirite hahahhaaa

or maybe lets talk about how ivysaur is so polarizing that when i play against her i gravitate to the north and south sides of the screen hahahaaaaa

or how fox and falco are perfect and dont need to be nerfed hahahhahahahahahhaha

To be fair, there's only about 42 topics that actually fit the context of this thread and you can basically lump all of them into 5 basic categories: broken, kinda broken but out-brokened by other things, solid but not broken, mid tier, and low tier. After 522 pages, it's probably going to feel a bit repetitive.

 

[Bambi_]

Talking about how good Pichu will be in 3.5 always feels new and fresh to me.

 

[steelguttey]

To be fair, there's only about 42 topics that actually fit the context of this thread and you can basically lump all of them into 5 basic categories: broken, kinda broken but out-brokened by other things, solid but not broken, mid tier, and low tier. After 522 pages, it's probably going to feel a bit repetitive.

then dont bring them up and maybe we can think of new ****

 

[Professor Pro]

Wouldn't most playtesters be able to do it pretty quick?
Are you extra curious because you have ideas or what? lol

I just enjoy reading the communities point of views for humour and interest.
I have a slight idea, but it's not good enough at the moment.

I still remember the days when the general consensus was that Snake was one of the worse characters in the game, like bottom 6/7.
I worked really hard to change people's opinion on that lol.

 

[shairn]

Someone should make a 3.5 tier list before 3.5 comes out

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

i guess i should put up some recordings for you, you'd like my gimps man.

So would I, good Sheiks are hella crisp.

I'm also over my Falco hatred. Lasers piss off Ikes but in return Fair makes Falcos weep. Falco's dair is honestly nowhere near as egregious as Fox's ... *Fox*.

I'm a scrub

We all got what we came for

Thread over, we're done here

 

[JesteRace]

I only hate Falco cause he poops on my main.

But he's fine.

 

[didds]

3.5 tier list

top





high









mid











low




















I wasn't sure if should be top or high

 

[SpiderMad]

@ Soft Serve

Soft Serve

 

[Player -0]

3.5 tier list

They're all green. I've figured you out. Good thing Marth can become green. Purple is secretly top tier material though.

 

[1FD]

I just enjoy reading the communities point of views for humour and interest.
I have a slight idea, but it's not good enough at the moment.

I still remember the days when the general consensus was that Snake was one of the worse characters in the game, like bottom 6/7.
I worked really hard to change people's opinion on that lol.

SSSS+ Tier



Everyone else tier

I remember that too. From like 2.1 though which was ages ago and everyone thought wolf and stuff were terrible and the melee top 5 still made up the top 5 of pm. How long ago was it that you remember that still being the general consensus?

 

[Engage]

Ivysaur's razor leaf needs to be changed back to its original Brawl form, where it's not slow and it's 1 clean hit, so you can use it as fast as most of the cast with vertical range. Ivysaur's Razor Leaf is butt compared to the rest of the cast with vertical ranged attacks.

 

[JOE!]

3.5 tier list:

Needs nerfs still tier:
everybody

Needs buffs plz tier:
my main

 

[4tlas]

Ok people seem to be running out of things to discuss regarding tiers, so here are 2 topics to think about. I hope I didn't miss these being discussed somewhere in the last 500 pages...

1) Which is more important, having a higher average MU spread or having stronger winning MUs but with some terrible ones? In other words, how important is the ability to counterpick characters (and be counterpicked) in terms of tiers?

2) How important is the current stagelist for tiers? Since this is different at every tournament, I don't know which one would be the "current" one to talk about. But maybe we can still discuss if the "average stage" is favoring a set of characters?

 

[steelguttey]

nah lets talk about boomerang

 

[InfinityCollision]

1) Which is more important, having a higher average MU spread or having stronger winning MUs but with some terrible ones? In other words, how important is the ability to counterpick characters (and be counterpicked) in terms of tiers?

In an imaginary world where character use and skill level is evenly distributed at every event in every region, I'd say the former. I'd prefer to minimize the risk of a hard counterpick than take an exaggerated matchup spread. A dual main will generally lead with the character that best covers the expected matchups, all else being equal.

2) How important is the current stagelist for tiers? Since this is different at every tournament, I don't know which one would be the "current" one to talk about. But maybe we can still discuss if the "average stage" is favoring a set of characters?

Stagelist definitely matters. It doesn't get a whole lot of in-depth mention, but it's there. I'm not sure who is explicitly favored by the various options right now though - I can think of characters who come out basically even and a few that are arguably disadvantaged, but there's quite a bit of variety both in the page 1 stages as a whole and also the makeup of the various stagelists floating around right now.

With 10+ legal stages yet only 2 strikes in most rulesets everyone's going to fare poorly somewhere, the question is whether you have enough strong or neutral options to capitalize on and few enough bad stages that you can strike anywhere you'd really suffer when appropriate.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Keep in mind a trait like "mostly evenish MUs" is hard to do without giving characters ridonk tools, resulting in stuff like 3.02 Pit and Mewtwo (and Fox ...)

A general up/down sort of MU spread is more conducive for balance because it means you have defined weaknesses, which some character archetypes are able to exploit while others are not. The ultimate (perhaps impossible) goal is for MUs to be distributed such but for no single MU to be unwinnable.

 

[InfinityCollision]

RPS matchup balancing is a tricky proposition in fighters because you risk creating a feeling that a given character was explicitly designed to do terrible things to your character or vice versa, and that's generally not a fun matchup to play. It's workable in close matchups, but ideally you're balancing such things down to the options level as that leads to more dynamic matches and potentially leads to better and more refined balancing.