| Kailex |
I smell like salty coins and milk
Pits up smash is dumb
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Tier List Speculation
- Thread starter OkamiBW
- Start date
victinivcreate1
Banned via Warnings
MK does kinda lose to crouch cancelling. Moreso than he does to shields, because at least w/ shields you can dtilt>dtilt>ftilt 12 and dsmash.
Captain Zack
Banned via Administration
It's too early in the metagame early to create an accurate tier list.
MrTea
Smash Apprentice
thanks for the insight bro
It's been said before, but I'll say it again, the tier list reflects the current meta game so there is no such thing as too early.
Tier list now might not reflect one in three years, but that doesn't make it inaccurate, it was just made for a different time.
Tier list now might not reflect one in three years, but that doesn't make it inaccurate, it was just made for a different time.
| Kailex |
I smell like salty coins and milk
The metagame always changes
D
Deleted member
Guest
Squirtle's U-smash is kinda ridiculous. It has a decent amount of lag, but it's got nice power and the range is disgusting. Put that move on any other character and people would be crying "broken!"
Well at least he doesn't have a weird character specific movement option that allows him to attack with it from a full stage length away
oh wait..
squirtle needs a nerfing, his up smash is just overwhelming.
mario imo also needs a nerfing asap, everything about him is just over powered.
now someone who could use some buffing are the ice climbers and sheik.
| Kailex |
I smell like salty coins and milk
Ice climbers and sheik are still good, its just that no one plays them much
Squirtle definitely doesn't need to be nerfed.
ICs aren't great specifically because they can get countered hard. They have very view positive match ups.
ICs aren't great specifically because they can get countered hard. They have very view positive match ups.
I mean if you want, but do you feel that your yoshi is good enough to represent it?Hey @KayB , want some Yoshi footage for the OP? Not looking for a list spot rather than get more Yoshi footage up
edit: just realized, wrong thread, my b
I mean for the sake of balance maybe, but you'd be cutting off people who like the character, and alienating people like that is silly.
jtm94
Smash Lord
I also agree Fox/Falco ideally shouldn't be here, but they are and even in the long run they may not be that good, but they're here.
Sheik is still amazing. Ice Climbers are beat.
Sheik is still amazing. Ice Climbers are beat.
mimgrim
Smash Hero
Why do people keep grouping Falco with Fox in PM. It doesn't really make sense to me. He's no where near as dominant as Fox is currently. Wolf is more dominant the Falco is.
It honestly comes across as Melee salt lol.
It honestly comes across as Melee salt lol.
I feel it's good enough to give some people an idea of what Yoshi is capable and with only two videos up I think it wouldn't hurt. If anything you can just decide they're not good enough and not put them up.
CyberZixx
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2012
- Messages
- 1,189
Yeah, I would not wanna legit take them out, only take them out as they are. I think an honest rebalance/ possible redisgn would be nice. At least for fox. Falco i'd only tweak a bit. Like more lagg on aerial lasers and pal dair.
Chesstiger2612
Smash Lord
F-tilt 1 2 dsmash can be punished by almost everybody because d-smash has huge endlag, MK has no good shield pressure by timing, only by spacing which is accomplished by nairs mostly. D-smash is used better after a hit confirm f-tilt at the ledge or similar situations where you want to use the low knockback angle. D-tilt on shield is also only safe by spacing, not by timing and d-tilt -> d-tilt is kinda questionable because it is a very static pressure and gets covered by more punish attempts than WDing back at half distance for example which baits some punish attempt and almost secures a boost grab.
I have to give you a point though that you could f-tilt 1 2 -> grab with the guessing game that if they want to punish before that you do the f-tilt 3. Only Yoshi and Peach are capable of punishing both with the IDJ aerial autocancel OoS which allows you to crouchcancel in the case of f-tilt 3 and jab in the other case.
MK has also no good aerial shield pressure, so you are right about spaced d-tilts being best besides grabs and crossups/fadeaway/platform autoland nair.
MK's are doing something wrong when they lose to crouchcancelling, probably they are just going in with weak hit nair at low %s while you should do sth more marthesque at low % and utilize movement options into a grab. If the opponent chooses to defend with an attack you might land in a situation where you need a quick attack. This might be the only situation where you can get CCd even if you played correctly, but your opponent got a read.
F-tilt is frame 3 so you want to use it here, but it is crouch-cancellable. But you are not out of options here, you can time second and third hit differently to mess your opponent up, and allowing you the mindgame of a not crouch-cancellable move if he inputs too late.
There is a trick to it, if the opponent keeps holding down and mashs the attack button for CC d-tilt or the C-stick for CC d-smash you will not get away with a not CCable move mixup, but you simply do f-tilt 3 with mixup timing and if the input timing for the CC punish is a bit flawed you can shield / spot dodge it.
Platform autocancel nair isn't punishable by CC, fadeaway/crossup nair and spaced d-tilt only against certain characters (you need to play even more grab-oriented there), so kinda everything you would do on shield also works against CCs
In other situations, I don't see why you should throw out CC-able attacks if you could go for grabs or non-CC-punishable attacks, it can't be considered optimal play and therefore not relevant to the discussion of MK's strengthes and weaknesses.
Sorry for the long post btw but I needed more words to explain it
Chesstiger2612
Smash Lord
#knowledgedrop
Warning Received
I speak for the majority of melee players who demand their game is simply better.
I never said alienate them not once you're a ****ing ******.Im simply saying you ***** about fox yet you dont get good enough to fight fox develop your damn characters and this wont be a problem in time.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Uh, let's be clear here - I was not suggesting that Squirtle be nerfed. I was simply pointing out how good his U-smash is.
ELI-mination
Smash Champion
First of all who you're speaking for is a group of elitist people. I might as well say "I'm speaking for the majority of pm players who demand their game is simply better" What a useless argument.
Second of all I fully agree with the "get better" mentality, as long as everyone adopts it as well. You are hereby NEVER justified to call anything in pm "jank", "gimmicks", "auto combos" etc. and you can never claim that using a spacie puts you at a disadvantage EVER. You know why? Because get better.
Long live my elitist view of my particular smash game which is simply better!
Oh no I was responding to this ridiculous comment.
To be fair there is room for adaptation, but Fox has some really dumb and powerful tools. His only flaw is literally his falling speed, Fox pretty much has everything a character could wish for.
Last edited:
| Kailex |
I smell like salty coins and milk
Why cant all the **** be as great as you eli
TheDuckChris
Smash Cadet
I see a lot of people putting Wolf in top tier, which I can somewhat agree with as long as you consider Captain Falcon top tier in melee. While the actual movesets are pretty much nothing alike, they have very similar "go all in" playstyles that can result in an SD more often than not at least once a set. Despite this they are incredibly powerful characters capable of stringing together magical **** resulting in Energem combos or knees respectively.
Personally I would consider Wolf as a high but not top tier character, with maybe the existence of lasers and a better recovery possibly pushing him up, although I haven't seen much laser play yet.
Personally I would consider Wolf as a high but not top tier character, with maybe the existence of lasers and a better recovery possibly pushing him up, although I haven't seen much laser play yet.
i hope you are joking
mimgrim
Smash Hero
I think Wolf might be better then Fox.
But I'm probably the only person who might think that.
But I'm probably the only person who might think that.
CyberZixx
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2012
- Messages
- 1,189
Was more an exaggeration. I think altering Fox and an lesser extend Falco would have the best case wide improvement to balance. More so than the Mewtwo's and pits of the world everyone complains about.
ParadOxymoron
Smash Cadet
Isn't the whole point of the Project to make every character as good as Fox was in Melee, because it's better to buff than nerf? Or did I read the sign wrong?
ELI-mination
Smash Champion
You read the sign wrong
mimgrim
Smash Hero
I thought it was to get characters to around Marth's level.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
And Opinions
Don't forget Opinions
Don't forget Opinions
BluntedMask
Smash Apprentice
What are peoples' current thoughts on charizard?
TheDuckChris
Smash Cadet
my zard thoughts involve a lot of different options and size considerations but generally boil down to "RAH ITS CHARIZARD IMA MAIN HIM RN OMG"