Tier List Speculation

[Jacob29]

jtm, no Bowser?

 

[Deleted member]

My tier list

why do you have Mewtwo so high?

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Ahhh, and that is why I missed him because I just went with defaults xD

Commentary on PM matches is a hypekiller sometimes. I wish I could commentate, I would like to say I know a decent amount of each characters random tech stuff.
I just hate when they're like... oh.. Zelda can have 2 of those fireball things out, pretty cool. Or look at that Lucas multi-shine! Meanwhile he just held in b >.< Little things bother me.

melee has the best commentary of any fighting game courtesy of s0ft
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPqMUiauJvw

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Ahhh, and that is why I missed him because I just went with defaults xD

Commentary on PM matches is a hypekiller sometimes. I wish I could commentate, I would like to say I know a decent amount of each characters random tech stuff.
I just hate when they're like... oh.. Zelda can have 2 of those fireball things out, pretty cool. Or look at that Lucas multi-shine! Meanwhile he just held in b >.< Little things bother me.

melee has the best commentary of any fighting game courtesy of s0ft
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPqMUiauJvw

dumb smashboards dpost

 

[The_NZA]

melee has the best commentary of any fighting game courtesy of s0ft
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPqMUiauJvw

dumb smashboards dpost

I'm sorry, Yipes is the BEST commentator of any fighting game and it would take a monster to prove otherwise. He IS the yardstick. He basically invented every catchphrase (including many we use in Smash). He's the MJ of casting.

 

[Terotrous]

I'm sorry, Yipes is the BEST commentator of any fighting game and it would take a monster to prove otherwise. He IS the yardstick. He basically invented every catchphrase (including many we use in Smash). He's the MJ of casting.

He's probably the best in terms of humour value but I think there are people who are better in terms of thoughtful analysis than he is. It depends on what you want from your commentary, I guess.



Back on topic, I think the following characters are all pretty safe bets for high or top tier:

Fox
Falco
Lucas
Link
Peach
Metaknight
Ivysaur
Diddy Kong

In general, all of these characters are generally solid and have good options in most matchups. There are other characters who show definite potential, but I think it's a bit too early to tell on some of them because a fairly substantial portion of the cast isn't heavily developed yet.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Uh
I don't know about link, diddy or peach being high tier. Mario should be high tier. I could see falco knocked down to high tier because he isn't as dominating in PM as he was in melee.

 

[Ali Baba 177]

He's probably the best in terms of humour value but I think there are people who are better in terms of thoughtful analysis than he is. It depends on what you want from your commentary, I guess.



Back on topic, I think the following characters are all pretty safe bets for high or top tier:

Fox
Falco
Lucas
Link
Peach
Metaknight
Ivysaur
Diddy Kong

In general, all of these characters are generally solid and have good options in most matchups. There are other characters who show definite potential, but I think it's a bit too early to tell on some of them because a fairly substantial portion of the cast isn't heavily developed yet.

Why don't you put Mario in there? Mario has beast combos and kill potential, and has a very good match-up spread. I also don't really understand his recovery,, and by that I mean he seems to get back from everywhere! and pretty safely at that.
Also, I know most people think Peach is real good, but I just don't see that much Peach in tournament play for Project M.

If you guys haven't filled out the poll, click the links below! I'm combining these results with tournament results to try to get a more accurate/agreeable 'tier' list. It should represent characters whom people think are good, but haven't shown well in tournaments yet and characters that have done well but people don't really realize.

 

[HeroicWeasel]

This is a long ass thread, where is kirby generally seen?

 

[Bryonato]

Ahhh, and that is why I missed him because I just went with defaults xD

Commentary on PM matches is a hypekiller sometimes. I wish I could commentate, I would like to say I know a decent amount of each characters random tech stuff.
I just hate when they're like... oh.. Zelda can have 2 of those fireball things out, pretty cool. Or look at that Lucas multi-shine! Meanwhile he just held in b >.< Little things bother me.

I'm the exact same way. Was watching a match the other day where the commentators basically said "Ness' recovery is the same as melee." "Ness has a good MU with Fox." "Ness if from Mother 3: Earthbound"

 

[Terotrous]

Uh
I don't know about link, diddy or peach being high tier. Mario should be high tier. I could see falco knocked down to high tier because he isn't as dominating in PM as he was in melee.

I heavily considered putting Mario there, but in the end I couldn't bring myself to do it. I just have this feeling that Mario is going to drop off to mid when other characters get developed and it'll become a running joke that everyone thought he was top tier when the game was new.

Link is kind of like Mario (both are very basic and will do well while the game is new), and I can see the argument that if Mario isn't there, Link shouldn't be either, but I feel Link is just a little bit more dominating than Mario.

I also contemplated removing Diddy Kong and Peach, but I think they're both still looking pretty good. Peach is basically back to how she was in Melee, and that was really strong. Float lets her get in on a lot of people who are otherwise good campers, and she's got good reach and power. Diddy Kong is a master of stage control and has solid power.

We'll see how things play out but I stand by my predictions for now.

 

[GP&B]

This is a long *** thread, where is kirby generally seen?

Mid, most often. He's cited a lot for having dreadful matchups against sword users.

 

[DMG]

Kirby resides in Dash Attack tier

 

[Soft Serve]

I also contemplated removing Diddy Kong and Peach, but I think they're both still looking pretty good. Peach is basically back to how she was in Melee, and that was really strong. Float lets her get in on a lot of people who are otherwise good campers, and she's got good reach and power. Diddy Kong is a master of stage control and has solid power.

We'll see how things play out but I stand by my predictions for now.

I would move Diddy to high/mid tier and give wolf his spot. Diddy has crazy stuff on paper, but people just forget most of the time that catching items is still incredibly easy, and Diddy has pretty bad hitboxes. I'm not saying Diddy's item play and banana set ups are gimmics, they are far from it and there are a ton that are really solid, but once people actually start developing a counter item game Diddy becomes a lot less over-bearing. Wolf on the other hand is crazy good, has the cross-stage punish abilities that falcon has, with the ability to approach and develop interesting set ups and lock downs with differing laser movements. Winning the matchups between other spacies count for a ton as well.

 

[Terotrous]

I would move Diddy to high/mid tier and give wolf his spot. Diddy has crazy stuff on paper, but people just forget most of the time that catching items is still incredibly easy, and Diddy has pretty bad hitboxes. I'm not saying Diddy's item play and banana set ups are gimmics, they are far from it and there are a ton that are really solid, but once people actually start developing a counter item game Diddy becomes a lot less over-bearing. Wolf on the other hand is crazy good, has the cross-stage punish abilities that falcon has, with the ability to approach and develop interesting set ups and lock downs with differing laser movements. Winning the matchups between other spacies count for a ton as well.

I'll admit I know nothing about Wolf. He looks like he has good stuff but I haven't seen enough of him to know where he goes.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Is Wolf actually doing well in tournaments?

I have no arguments that he's a great character on paper, but to my knowledge, there hasn't been much evidence of him in tourney, which is disappointing.

 

[jtm94]

why do you have Mewtwo so high?

Mewtwo is top tier against any character that isn't floaty. He is the epitome of a DBZ character and has the tools to deal with every single situation, even if those tools consist of only teleport and up air.

Dead serious that as of right now Mewtwo is the character I see with the most untapped potential, being able to act out of teleport is so good that I don't have a word for it.

jtm, no Bowser?

Bowser doesn't exist.

I also don't know where to put him. I used to think highly of him because of The Big House where Bowser won GFs I think? But then he got some mild nerfs across his moves and I saw him being played far less. I know little about how his MUs go.

And I still think Captain Falcon is a very YOLO-based character with ridiculous ways to combo if the opponent has bad DI or lets him land moves that aren't safe.

 

[Oracle]

why do you have Mewtwo so high?

Dat bair tho

 

[jtm94]

Dat bair tho

In a game largely based off of movement the ability to move instantaneously in any direction and act immediately is largely overpowered.

Zelda has gotten flack for being able to wavedash out of teleport.

 

[Terotrous]

Dat bair tho

Mewtwo's tail is top tier, no question.

Tail Tier list:

S: Mewtwo
A: Yoshi
B: Charizard, Squirtle, Pikachu
C: Fox, Falco
D: Diddy Kong

I think that's pretty definitive.

 

[Kaysick]

Mewtwo's tail is top tier, no question.

Tail Tier list:

S: Mewtwo
A: Yoshi
B: Charizard, Squirtle
C: Pikachu
D: Diddy Kong

I think that's pretty definitive.

I can agree with Yoshi being A instead of S. His bair, uair, ftilt, and dtilt are phenomenal but aren't at the reach of Mewtwo's.

 

[B.W.]

Is Wolf actually doing well in tournaments?

Did no one see Rat take 4th at Shuffle V? Also tune into Wavedash Wednesdays stream to see Rat and Scythe destroying people with Wolf.

 

[Guilu]

Zard's tail is top tier as well, and Pikachu definitely up there. I strongly disagree with that tier list Terotrous ;o

 

[Terotrous]

Zard's tail is top tier as well, and Pikachu definitely up there. I strongly disagree with that tier list Terotrous ;o

Zard's tail has great reach but most of his attacks are slow, they don't have the speed of Mewtwo's tail. I originally had him in A with Yoshi, but I think Yoshi's tail puts in more work.

I'm willing to entertain arguments for moving Pikachu to B, though I feel Pikachu's face is much higher tier than his tail.

Oh wait, Pika up smash is a tail attack. Okay, B tier it is.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Did no one see Rat take 4th at Shuffle V? Also tune into Wavedash Wednesdays stream to see Rat and Scythe destroying people with Wolf.

Ah fair... sorry, brain fart here.

 

[JOE!]

"Charizard's Tail is B tier"

Excuse me?

Spoiler

 

[NisforSmash]

My very general tier list in no particular order


Have the most potential



Have some potential
(Zelda has no icon so pretend that's her)


Has the least potential

 

[Soft Serve]

Guys, olimar isn't a bad character. He has tons of tools to space shffls well, and can drag out the neutral, throwing pikmim for free perfect, and can get in and punish people for using moves to remove the pikmin.

Bland =/= bad.

Unless you're zelda and you're whole existance and way of winning matches is through hoping people mess up and step in your traps, or they approach in a needlessly reckless manner and get wrecked.

 

[jtm94]

Unless you're zelda and you're whole existance and way of winning matches is through hoping people mess up and step in your traps, or they approach in a needlessly reckless manner and get wrecked.

You get it, I like you.

And Mewtwo has ridiculous potential. The fact that he can touch of death most anyone because of how quick he can maneuver is ridiculous.

 

[DMG]

Mewtwo teleporting at people would be amazing if he didn't have as much lag for maneuvering it into the ground (because that would set up for very lethal grabs or strong tilts). Also, if he could act quicker or was less vulnerable when he pops out in the air. I certainly would not buff a single thing about it, but I find it doesn't cross over into deep "wtf I can't do anything about it" territory. Most character cleanly beat out teleport approaches and gimmicks by moving back, or throwing out a lingering hitbox. It's a bit unpredictable, but at the same time if Mewtwo is threatening longer range teleport pop-ins, he probably isn't in a position to punish a person for throwing out a pre-emptive Nair or moving away a tad.


Where the move is really useful for, is for escaping pressure during combos (same with his float sometimes) and for extending/repositioning further for combos. Generally though, it doesn't feel like you get much after that ported hit to extend the combo. You barely nab that guy with a port-Uair or Fair that sends them clean away, etc. It's highly overrated in neutral imo as a means to "start" anything formidable. You'd be better off using it to run away ironically, instead of approaching. When he was first announced and details were coming out, I was personally concerned about his ability to act out of teleport. After playing as the character though, it doesn't feel totally out of place, especially with moves that break Smash "traditions" already in place that seem accepted (see: MK's Dair as a prominent example).


Mewtwo has some potential in my eyes, but not from a super offensive angle. When I play as him, I think about the new ways he can control space and set up efficient walls by floating or teleporting with moves. Or better edgeguarding opportunities. Not necessarily new 0-death strings or "Lucario" style gameplay where you hit a person and immediately port at them for pressure and combos etc. I like Mewtwo, because he feels like a character you can distinguish between "good" and "amazing" players of the character due to the nuances introduced. Characters like that, whether viable or not, are very satisfying to me personally.

 

[Terotrous]

"Charizard's Tail is B tier"

Excuse me?

Nothing wrong with B Tier. Some solid Tail in B Tier.

 

[Bryonato]

My tail tier list:
S Tier
ZSS

Everything Else Tier -
Everything else

 

[NisforSmash]

Guys, olimar isn't a bad character. He has tons of tools to space shffls well, and can drag out the neutral, throwing pikmim for free perfect, and can get in and punish people for using moves to remove the pikmin.

Bland =/= bad.

Unless you're zelda and you're whole existance and way of winning matches is through hoping people mess up and step in your traps, or they approach in a needlessly reckless manner and get wrecked.

I agree that olimar isn't a bad character and is very much playable. He has a strong recovery and his small size/basic animations make it difficult to tell what exactly he's about to do you. Plus there is a certain pressure on you when you play against him to shut him down before his pikmin bloom which can play to his advantage. Like you said, he can drag out the neutral. Combine all that with his ability to rack damage up from afar. IMO Olimar in his current state isn't the character to be played aggressively but if you play a good passive/bait and punish game then oli is decent.

I'm not saying Olimar is bad, I'm just saying that compared to the rest of the cast he doesn't have as much potential when you play him (to what i assume to be) correctly.

 

[JOE!]

I'm not saying Olimar is bad, I'm just saying that compared to the rest of the cast he doesn't have as much potential when you play him (to what i assume to be) correctly.

Pretty much this. Olimar is "solid", but thats about it... he doesn't seem to stand out from the cast like other "solid+" characters.

 

[Plum]

The real tail tier list

top tier
MK - doesn't even need a tail to be at the top of any tier list
everybody else with a tail

actual tier list
Fox, MK
Wolf
Sheik
Falco
Pit
Peach
Diddy
I think it things get very murky after here
Honestly you could argue most characters after top 8 and I would buy it.
DDD for actually really solid tier though.
Olimar for poor representation of Pikmin series but actually a really good character tier
Ganon for actually Sadondorf tier. Or Badandorf tier. Your choice.

 

[Kaeldiar]

This is a long *** thread, where is kirby generally seen?

Some people think he is a God, others see him as mid tier. He has a vaguely Melee Jiggz-esque play style, but with slightly worse aerials and more overall options. Chu is probably the best Kirby out there right now, and I haven't really seen anyone else play him at a high level. Kirby is viable, but I can't see him being dominant.

EDIT:

is viable, but I can't see him being dominant.

Basically how everyone below top 8 is in this game, imo

 

[SixSaw]

Last I saw Chu didn't even know cutterdash was a thing.

 

[Ali Baba 177]

Why is peach high on everyones lists?? Can someone explain and/or post video(s)! I can tell she is solid and different with mix ups giving her some good MU's, but I dont know why she would be in definite top 10 or something.

 

[Plum]

It looks like Chu just carries over his Brawl Kirby, rather than specifically play PM Kirby, and rides the fact that he's one of the best overall Smash players in the country.
In his prime he was ranked number two in the nation behind Ken and even now he's still ranked twenty two. So yeah... the man is just better then most people...

 

[USUX_LEGEND]

Ive always said mario was top 5, even when the popular belief was morons saying that mario had too many buffs and needed to be nerfed but was not a powerful character. Now shuffle 5 happened and was filled with mostly marios high in bracket, there was a mario or two in top 8 (above legendary players like strong bad i might add) and hbox even cpd mario when jiggs was busy being the worst character ever. And the funny thing is none of these marios are as good as i am, might as well crown me your emperor right now