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What's wrong with wavedroping? It just helps him mix up his approaches, it's not busted or anything.
Wavedrops aren't dumb in the sense that they're broken. They're dumb in that Luigis are startning to rely too heavily on it. It's a gimmick that works for now but once people start to figure out how to deal with it, it won't be that potent.
Wavedrops are nice, but not having to charge tornado is a godsend. Fireballs not being bad is nice too.
NWRL
said about honest characters. However, I would never consider Fox an honest character. Nair approch to drillshine throws spacing fundamentals out the window and only requires positioning. Also, Fox's laser game is not a challenging camp game to optimize. Just too much stuff falls under the jank category.
Design consistency is one thing that I think people undervalue in the PM community. Characters like ROB and Lucario really stand out because they really break the rules of the game. Lucario's hit confirms and EX meter are something that just looks and feels out of place when you look at the cast as a whole. Same thing with ROB and air dashes and still having a double jump.
You have to bear in mind that uniqueness is a positive aspect to strive for in your cast, so giving characters uniqueness for the sake of uniqueness essential. However, this is a different discussion entirely. Rob and Lucario and many other characters do have things that make them very, very different, and thus difficult to adapt to, but they are still "honest" because they aren't unintuitive or luck based.
getting a grab, that leads into a long chaingrab, which you use as a main tool in a heavily common matchup, isn't very "honest" under these rules you've put up. in melee, you can skip a good chunk of "fundamental play" and set yourself up to always win this one stage/character setup, same way you can do so in PM.
welcome to the tier list speculation thread where the matchup numbers are made up and the opinions don't matter
With the qualifier that you read up or play around with the character to see how he works first, he is. If you run into him without studying up, he is incredibly confusing and bull****.
A character that is intuitive allows one to use their innate knowledge of smash to have a basic understanding (or 'feeling') of how that character works, reading up on them because they're so different is literally defeating the entire concept of an intuitive character.
In my original post, I said "visually intuitive" but dropped the word visually out of laziness in subsequent posts. All I meant by that is that the hitboxes make sense (e.g. not G&W nair), match the animation (e.g. not G&W dtilt), and don't have a trajectory that makes zero sense/vary (e.g. not G&W dash attack and throws respectively). I think if someone needs to explain a character's unique mechanics for you to properly play against them (e.g. lucario), you could still call them honest, but if you have to study frame data and debug mode and memorize where the hitboxes on their moves, deal with game changing rng/silly forced mixups (almost exclusively ones off grab), then you can't really call them honest.
No you got it all wrong... Everything I do is legit, and everything my opponent does is jank.
lol what an obviously dismissive axiom. ignoring that some characters have infinitely more jank than others is a hilariously dishonest evaluation of the subject.
Am I really ignoring that some characters have more jank than others when in my previous post I said that it's mainly about which characters have more or less BS than others?
It doesn't change the fact that characters such as Lucario, whom people still scratch their heads about when people mention the aura charges and magic series, are objectively less "straight forward", if you will, than characters such as something like Marth. When characters move or behave in exceedingly strange ways, players are gonna question the integrity or validity of what they are doing: what kind of outliers exist in the game, which are probably going to be less well-received, assuming most people will prefer the way the larger portion of the characters behave.
