Tier List - EXTRA

[clubbadubba]

and why isn't shielding banned again?

Because that would be really stupid. Deal with it

 

[Sempiternity]

how is up+b bad?

you may only be able to use three moves, but so can your opponents, most of which are very slow and don't get hitboxes out as fast as falcon's up+b (which also has hax range the first frame), plus the time it takes the put the shield down and perform said moves

DK might be the only one able to counter it

link could too, but if he misses, he's getting falcon punched

i suppose samus could be obnoxious, but just DI out of that, and up+b 'em again

luigi's range is a tad too small

also, if they jump out of shield, you've got that covered

 

[Olikus]

falcon up-b is bloody terrible vs shields when it is one of only three moves you can use

and why isn't shielding banned again?

ofc. falcon punch is much better. good day, good evening, and as a matter of fact, good night.

 

[Sangoku]

Falcon punch on shield is really good. So hard to punish given all the shieldstun.

 

[prisonchild]

would anybody want to make a sex kick tier list? if i made a list it would probably be completely inaccurate so i'll just save myself the embarassment.


(i'll make one if necessary)

 

[asianaussie]

not counting dk's b-air

in terms of usefulness to the character:

1) jiggs/pika
3) kirby
4) yoshi
5) link/mario
7) samus
8) ness/falcon/fox/luigi

theoretically kirby can use nothing but b-air for spacing, but the weak b-air > n-air is really staple
yoshi's only high because shield-breaking, plus sh drifting n-air is just really cool
samus can also theoretically use b-air most times, but it's sometimes good for finishing and occasionally to catch run-unders, although d-air sorta trumps it there
fox only uses for ending some combos and **** tent > u-smash, maybe more but who cares, too busy being 2km away lasering
falcon's is ****, use something else
why would luigi use it except to catch run-unders/being too lazy to time some other aerial...oh right it's fast, but you're luigi so it doesn't matter, get rolled

god, im in that phase where i haven't played at all for ages so i have to go into emulator and test some hitboxes

 

[SheerMadness]

1. Yoshi's nair
2. Ness's nair

3. Everyone else

Yoshi and Ness can djc their sex kicks. No contest.

 

[The Star King]

Does moves like Pika bair count as a sex kick

 

[Battlecow]

nah, sex kicks have like static, on the body hitboxes. always Nairs. strong->weak isn't enough.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Does moves like Pika bair count as a sex kick

no. Sex kicks refer to, as generally quoted: any move that gradually gets weaker over time as the move comes out. I don't think Pikachu's b-air is like that)

In terms of
A (due to DJC's): Yoshi/Ness
B (due to combo potential, fast, high priority): Pikachu, Fox, Jiggs,
C: (medium speed, but low-ish combo potential): Link, Mario, Falcon
D: (slow, low combo potential) Mario, Samus,
E: (None) DK

 

[Sangoku]

It's not like there was any clear definition. Isn't it just supposed to be any move that "erects quickly and grow weaker over time"? By extension we refer to all the Nairs. Now, it's true it might seem more logical to add this static thing to the definition. This would exclude DK's nair, but his bair is static though, isn't it?

And Koro, there's no such thing as gradually weaker (if by that you meant something continuous). There are only two hitboxes, the regular one and the late/weak one. So Pika's bair apply to that definition. It doesn't apply the static definition though.

 

[Battlecow]

DK's nair is not a sex kick

 

[The Star King]

no. Sex kicks refer to, as generally quoted: any move that gradually gets weaker over time as the move comes out. I don't think Pikachu's b-air is like that)

lol classic Koro, reiterating something already said and still getting things wrong in the process

I love you

 

[Sangoku]

DK's nair is not a sex kick

Is that an answer to something I said? I can't see anywhere I said DK's nair could be a sex kick according to the static definition.

 

[Battlecow]

I didn't read your post correctly. My bad.

I think that part of the sex kick's definition should include the body-and-in-front-of-body hitbox they all share.

 

[The Star King]

I think that part of the sex kick's definition should include actually being a kick. lol.

 

[asianaussie]

people call all sorts of non-punch things DPs

but we at the smashboreds 64 section support logic, right

 

[ballin4life]

falcon's nair is better for combos than fox's nair is

 

[SSBPete]

falcon's nair is better for combos than fox's nair is

so wrong. falcons nair can often be replaced with bair. fox's nair is necessary for getting out of the tent to finish with upsmash

 

[asianaussie]

^

basically, if the character has something that can replace it and generally be BETTER then it shouldn't be considered a good move (since comparing things in a vacuum is just really dumb)

for falcon as an ender, this would be...b-air, d-air, up-b, other things like FALCON KYICK, and as a combo extender f-air is less hassle, u-air probably just plain better

idk i dont make combos, but i know that falcon's nair is sucky and fox needs it for ending those combos that are just off the edge (it's better than shine, gives you more time to edgeguard), plus tent things

 

[ciaza]

along the same lines then if we're only talking about combos, fox's nair can often be replaced with reverse/weak/strong fair/bair when needed, whereas falcon's nair has fewer options to replace it with (again, for combos only, not finishers)

then again i'm only really typing this with falcon's weak nair in mind or those few times when you need to pull out a quick strong nair where you can't get forward enough to hit the reverse bair

 

[ballin4life]

so wrong. falcons nair can often be replaced with bair. fox's nair is necessary for getting out of the tent to finish with upsmash

What? Are you suggesting doing reverse bair as a substitute for nair? I guess it will work but it's much more difficult to do.

That's the main combo use for fox nair (along with being a finisher), and I agree it's useful (I wasn't really thinking about tent combos). But anyway you could sub in fair/bair (or just not nair out) much more easily than you could sub reverse bair for nair as falcon.

for falcon as an ender, this would be...b-air, d-air, up-b, other things like FALCON KYICK, and as a combo extender f-air is less hassle, u-air probably just plain better

Nair is more powerful than bair as a finisher (full reverse uair is best but there are some situations where you can't set that up since it requires turning around).

As a combo link nair has plenty of uses that are not covered by fair or uair. Obviously you use nair to move the opponent sideways, whereas uair hits upward. There are many cases where moving the opponent toward the edge is better than just doing an uair. Double hit fair can be DIed, first hit fair is not useful at lower percents, and second hit fair is hard to set up, can often be replaced by weak nair, and is sometimes not powerful enough.

idk i dont make combos, but i know that falcon's nair is sucky and fox needs it for ending those combos that are just off the edge (it's better than shine, gives you more time to edgeguard), plus tent things

Huh? I think shine makes edgeguarding easier since it forces them to recover low. But I agree that Fox nair is very useful as a combo finisher.

 

[RickySSB]

Nair > Bair

 

[ballin4life]

btw this combo is an example of the situation I'm thinking of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM12jlqd-xk&list=UUjRCaHXs1QLgjv_vDak8tyg&t=1m47s

I think that the nair there is the optimal combo link in terms of most likely to lead to a successful death combo.

 

[asianaussie]

Nair is more powerful than bair as a finisher (full reverse uair is best but there are some situations where you can't set that up since it requires turning around).

As a combo link nair has plenty of uses that are not covered by fair or uair. Obviously you use nair to move the opponent sideways, whereas uair hits upward. There are many cases where moving the opponent toward the edge is better than just doing an uair. Double hit fair can be DIed, first hit fair is not useful at lower percents, and second hit fair is hard to set up, can often be replaced by weak nair, and is sometimes not powerful enough.

ill concede this, you're clearly more well-versed than i am

Huh? I think shine makes edgeguarding easier since it forces them to recover low. But I agree that Fox nair is very useful as a combo finisher.

i was dumb, the more important point is that runoff jump n-air has far less room for error, and if it's from a landed f-air/b-air, will almost definitely give you more time to get back and edgeguard because they have to be at mid-ish percentage for it to work anyway

oh right, and it's way way way easier to jump n-air than jump shine

 

[The Star King]

Meh, I think they're about the same. I personally use Fox's nair more though.