THunder Storming...useless?

[Nessman]

I just switched off ganon as a main because after learning how to thunder storm it mostly failed against my brother (who mains DK...well lol). I found that most of the time, against a well trained player... aka someone who will hit u no matter what after they shield u, thunderstorming looses its whole reason for being.

Situation:

U thunderstorm, they shield. THis would be ok if ganon wasnt slowed after, but alas ganon is slowed and they get a free hit...maybe ull predict a roll thunderstorming...but thats a 33% chance (back, forward, stay)....

I would be all for TS'n if u could punish after shielding...but believe me ived tried and its no use...

The videos online r nice...but they seem to mostly be against ppl who forgot how to shield.

Also...MK is a ***** to hit while TS'n......doesnt help...

I dunno but it seems that the potential for this tech to push Ganon up tier is limited...

 

[GodotAA]

your clearly dont know how to use it. i fooled around with ganon

the only way to use the thunder storm is ONCE to cancel your lag then you can do anything out of it...

doing it over and over again is bad anyone can see that...

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Good for you? Now kindly get out.

 

[hyperstation]

Kill. This. Thread.

 

[Nessman]

uh i definitly know how u to use it

u guys just obviously like ganon to much to realize shielding TS destorys it

 

[hyperstation]

uh i definitly know how u to use it

u guys just obviously like ganon to much to realize shielding TS destorys it

Yes. Obviously.

OOOoooor, you just suck with Ganon to [sic] much to realize that blindly thunderstorming is an absolutely awful tactic.

Welcome to the Ganon boards. Try to post stuff with - you know - substance (?) from now on...

 

[Ray_Kalm]

uh i definitly know how u to use it

u guys just obviously like ganon to much to realize shielding TS destorys it

We know what and what not destroys our stomps. We also know that Ganon, if not the worst, is one of the worst characters in the game.

Got your answer?

 

[Koskinator]

Gtfo my Ganon boards.

 

[Gleam]

I'm going to be the nice guy and not be a complete jerk.

From what I read, you seem to be doing the exact opposite of what and decent Ganon player is doing...your trying to approach but more importantly be offensive. If you try to be offensive your going to get shielded. Be denfensive punish those rolls and laggy attacks with Thunderstorming.

 

[DRaGZ]

This hurts my heart.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Uh....DUH?

Thunderstorming sucks on shields. The reason WHY Thunderstorming is good is not as an approach, but as a punish technique. When you punish someone with Thunderstorming, it REALLY REALLY HURTS.

 

[Taeran]

... Seriously?

 

[Nessman]

A). u guys really flip out when someone disagrees with u...all i said was that it didnt work for me...and why...

Ur suppose to use it to punish...but somethin u cant do OOS isnt much of a punisher...and only a noob would use a laggy attack right next to u...or roll right where u were...so basically ganon is too slow to punish with TS effectively

All i was saying was that if someone gets a free hit after shielding...(after they stop u trying to punish)...it sorta makes TS useless...

btw i never disagreed that predicting rolls was one good way to use it...but seriously u cant expect to hit with a 33% chance every time...

and this did have substance...just pointed something out..thats all...really...but like i said if anyone points out a downside in any tech on this place ppl flip out and go nuts

 

[SaltyKracka]

The whole point of Thunderstorming is that it punishes APPROACHES. If the opponent attacks, you should have predicted and should already be in the air stomping the ever-living-**** out of them. It's one of the reasons that playing Ganon requires so much more skill than other characters. If the only way to punish was OoS, then Marth would be the best **** character in the game, but he isn't. The best way to punish is to **** well make sure that they whiff and punish them for that.

And that is how you play Ganondorf.

 

[waldorf2007]

We don't take kindly to people of URRR KIND IN THESE HERE PARTS!
Now come on skipper he ain't makin no trouble...
but yeah GTFO off ganon boards

 

[Nessman]

salty kracka u cant make someone whiff at ganon...hes slow as **** and huge...

i like it how 99% of the replies here have nothing to do with anything...gtfo just means u have nothing to say

 

[Nessman]

and im saying that because TS CANT OOS punish it becomes more useless u freaking tard

 

[SaltyKracka]

salty kracka u cant make someone whiff at ganon...hes slow as **** and huge...

i like it how 99% of the replies here have nothing to do with anything...gtfo just means u have nothing to say

You can, in fact, make someone whiff. It's the essence of spacing, and Ganondorf outranges and outprioritizes quite a few characters. And if you mean you can't make people whiff with Thunderstorm, you've never seen a good Ganondorf in action.

and im saying that because TS CANT OOS punish it becomes more useless u freaking tard

And I'm saying that if you want to punish OoS, jab, dtilt, ftilt, or even FC are better ideas. Christ, there's no such thing as a very good OoS aerial punish for anyone, let alone Ganondorf. You need to learn how to play before you begin to complain, dude.

 

[Swoops]

A). u guys really flip out when someone disagrees with u...all i said was that it didnt work for me...and why...

Ur suppose to use it to punish...but somethin u cant do OOS isnt much of a punisher...and only a noob would use a laggy attack right next to u...or roll right where u were...so basically ganon is too slow to punish with TS effectively

All i was saying was that if someone gets a free hit after shielding...(after they stop u trying to punish)...it sorta makes TS useless...

btw i never disagreed that predicting rolls was one good way to use it...but seriously u cant expect to hit with a 33% chance every time...

and this did have substance...just pointed something out..thats all...really...but like i said if anyone points out a downside in any tech on this place ppl flip out and go nuts

salty kracka u cant make someone whiff at ganon...hes slow as **** and huge...

i like it how 99% of the replies here have nothing to do with anything...gtfo just means u have nothing to say

and im saying that because TS CANT OOS punish it becomes more useless u freaking tard

You want reasonable responses? I'd be glad to dish em out.

First of all, Thunderstorming can be done OoS, what in the world are you talking about? You can jump out of shield...therefore you can thunderstorm out of shield. Say someone runs into your shield with an attack, they decide to d-smash thinking that you'll drop your shield or the d-smash will shield stab you, and you have already jumped into a stomp to get a free 22% damage against them not including a follow up.

It takes around 100% to kill someone with Ganondorf, in a lot of cases less than that. The ability to get nearly or more than 1/4 of that off on one lagless punishing move is pretty **** useful.

The basis of your argument is that since people get a free hit of a shielded one...it's useless. That makes no sense whatsoever. You can easily free hits off of marth's f-smash, off of MKs tornado, snake's second hit of f-tilt, and so many other countless moves that are considered great. But yet the moves are not considered useless because of they excel in some other area. Ganon's thunderstorming excels at approach punishment and punishment overall. You do not run straight into their shield with a d-air.

It can destroy spot dodging with proper timing, destroy dash attacks, run in grabs, d-smashes, d-tilts, f-tilts, and even a lot of f-smashes and some u-smashes. If you watch a lot of Ganon videos, you'll see that the other person is usually in the middle of a move when getting stomped...you can't shield in the middle of a move. When you get 22% off of one move because someone simply decided to d-tilt or grab, they tend to be scared sh*tless of you.

Fear is not useless.

 

[2fAke]

Well said, Swoops. I was reading through all of this and wondering when someone was going to set all of that straight.

Generally, Nessman, the strategy I use for TSing is to use it sparingly and allow my opponent to forget about it. It has a good low percent kill rate on uber light characters and people with slow DI reaction. On Rainbow cruise it can outright terrify people. A TS DId away into an Ftilt, in case of the foe shielding, has saved my butt before. Spamming the TS is begging for trouble.

Just never forget that Ganon is meant to punish, not stalk. A **** good player can mount a Ganon offensive, but for anyone not **** good, try to mainly punish.

Anyway about it TSing isn't useless if you understand how to incorporate it properly.

 

[Nessman]

2fAke the fact that u play on Rainbow Cruise just proves u have NO competitive experience...try BF or FD...now go be competitive... and congradulations on kissing major *** in ur first post...lame.

my main argument isnt just that whoever ur facing gets a free hit if they shield...its also that punishing anyone with TS requires them to be completly and utterly ********...and that any aerial approaches render TS useless (and alot more ppl use aerial approaches than grounded...theyre just less risky).

"You do not run straight into their shield with a d-air."....but u expect them to run straight into ur shield?

it doesnt work OOS...ive tried...LIke i said...u will NOT hit the other player...they will either normal shield or PS ur TS...u cant shield and punish...it just doesnt work

U say it works if someone "runs up and dsmash's or grabs"...ok?? thats all?

What if they do anything else??? What decent player is going to run in, stand right next to u, charge a dsmash and expect u to do...nothing or shield wrong? or how bout that u might actually spot doge their grab?

That just bases ur argument on expecting to fight low level players who have no idea that...if they attack...u might...actually...move out of the way or not just...shield?

Swoops the problem with ur argument is that u expect ur opponent to be ******** and use an ineffective and extremely punishable and risky approach...then punish them for doing so... i dont know who u play against but that would b selling anyone i play against extremely short...

 

[Nessman]

Also, swoops, i wouldnt consider a match where "the lag wasn't nearly as bad as I thought" as competitive. Competitive matches r only played in person. Obviously u think otherwise.

I have no idea how u think ur skills as a ganon actually mean anything in a laggy online match...

Thread over...u guys can go feel good about urselves about punishing terrible players...in terrible laggy matches...with a strategy that only works because of this type of situation...a rather pathetic...noncompetitive situation.

 

[TP]

2fAke the fact that u play on Rainbow Cruise just proves u have NO competitive experience...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand we're done here.


To summarize:
1) Don't double post.
2) Use proper grammar and spelling so my eyes stop bleeding.
3) Everything Swoops said.
4) Rainbow Cruise is NEVER banned from tournaments.
5) Don't be argumentative with people who know more about THEIR OWN CHARACTER than you.
6) As others have said.... GTFO my Ganon boards.

 

[hyperstation]

Nessman, I'll take you to hell and back with my Ganon. But I'm merciful...I'll lubricate with plenty of Thunderstorming so that the penetrating punishment doesn't hurt TOO badly.

Though it's clearly not worth arguing with you because you've got Ganon all figured out, it might come as a surprise to realize that thunderstorming is, by NO stretch of the imagination, Ganon's best move. There are at least three more universally applicable techniques in (RAR) UAir, (i)DA, and DTilt. But please...give up on Ganon as you said you were going to, because we just don't want you here. Don't come in here and lecture us on competitive play. What's your pedigree, man? Why are you so proud?

Mods, send this thread to HELL.

 

[Swoops]

Also, swoops, i wouldnt consider a match where "the lag wasn't nearly as bad as I thought" as competitive. Competitive matches r only played in person. Obviously u think otherwise.

I have no idea how u think ur skills as a ganon actually mean anything in a laggy online match...

Thread over...u guys can go feel good about urselves about punishing terrible players...in terrible laggy matches...with a strategy that only works because of this type of situation...a rather pathetic...noncompetitive situation.

Methinks someone gets rocked to sh*t with thunderstorming online then can't learn to apply it offline.

When in the hell did I say that? I don't think online matches qualify for anything at all to begin with.

 

[litlwing]

This is silly, its like a fish telling a bunch of birds that the way they fly is useless and incorrect and that they should stop it doing because he will never get out of the water.

 

[Donkey Bong]

We know what and what not destroys our stomps. We also know that Ganon, if not the worst, is one of the worst characters in the game.

Got your answer?

noooooo! sonic is way worse!

 

[hyperstation]

noooooo! sonic is way worse!

Best SWF user name EVER.

 

[Gleam]

Ganon is a god****ed punisher. Your not suppose to just wack out a dair whenever you feel like it. Like I've said Ganon's main game is to be a defensive, lag and approach punisher. It is possible and easy to OOS thunderstorm, and quite frankly Ganon has a pretty darn good punishing game.

Not to mention there's more than just one way to punish out of a shield or powershield...like the amazing d-tilt.

 

[2fAke]

2fAke the fact that u play on Rainbow Cruise just proves u have NO competitive experience...try BF or FD...now go be competitive... and congradulations on kissing major *** in ur first post...lame.

For one who claimed people freak out when one disagrees, you seem to be guilty of the same. Rainbow Cruise is still a widely accepted counter pick. I happen to enjoy BF and FD as well as Delfino Plaza, Smashville, Castle siege, Yoshi's island, Pokemon Stadium 1&2, and Brinstar. I'm well aware of competitive play stages. Moreover, what rank do you average in tourney play?

It seems to me you're a guy who wandered here and tried to discredit a particular technique without fully understanding when or how to use it. Now, you're arguing with numerous people that say you're wrong, but we're all the idiots. Maybe you should reconsider your ammount of expertise on the subject and accept the fact that you were mistaken and corrected on several fronts, rather than acting bitter and insulting towards people who are regarding you in a respectful manner.

 

[GotenOnNimbus]

Troll! Troll! Troll!

...It seems I missed a good party, here. I'm not a competitive player (yet...), and I coulda torn this guy to shreds. Makes me want to play him in person and plant Ganon's large, evil-encrusted boots in his main character's head.

 

[LinkSceptile333]

Someone lock this thread and Forward Tilt nessman into the abyss.

 

[Z1GMA]

No No! omg.. DON'T rush in and TS sheilds! ^^J

Like most of the Ganons said "use it defensively and for punnishing"

The ONLY times I use it offensively is off stage.

I think TS and Fair are pretty similar in a few ways...
Never use em offensivley.
Both are amazing punnishers!
Both are very destructible off stage!

*Also, baiting with TS is awesome!

 

[Jekyll]

Swoops the problem with ur argument is that u expect ur opponent to be ******** and use an ineffective and extremely punishable and risky approach...then punish them for doing so... i dont know who u play against but that would b selling anyone i play against extremely short...

Wait...Isn't that what you were doing to your friend's DK? You're using something that YOU yourself deemed as "an ineffective and extremely punishable and risky approach," and then you come here bitterly *****ing and moaning about it.

You're playing Ganon the wrong way, or you just suck at the game. Either way, the way you're responding to actual legitimate posts(which I'll admit, there weren't many of) is just immature, so I don't care enough to try and help.

Thunderstorming doesn't MAKE Ganon. It's just something that makes him better. Same with Gerudo...Same with Tipman and whatever other tactics we've concocted. If you're in a situation where one is rendered "useless," then do something else. If he's shielding your dair, then grab the sonofa*****. Is it that hard of a concept?!?!

If you're not capable of grasping the concept that certain tactics in this game destroy other tactics, then MAYBE Brawl just isn't your game, champ.

Seriously, your post might as well have read:

All i was saying was that if someone gets a WIN after PLAYING ROCK...(after they stop u PLAYING SCISSORS)...it sorta makes PLAYING SCISSORS useless...

If they're PLAYING ROCK(shielding), you PLAY PAPER(grab, or fake out, etc). You do NOT sit there PLAYING SCISSORS(attacking) on their rock like it's the only tactic in the game and then come ***** to us when you can't seem to win. L2PGGKTHXBAI.

 

[hyperstation]

Got 'em.

10Jekylls

 

[Kinzer]

noooooo! sonic is way worse!

Yeah, I'm gonna get banned again because I'm flaming somebody and I still have 4 points, but this has to be met to face to face...

SCREEEEEEEWWWWWWWW YOOOOOOOUUUUUUUU!!!!!

Sonic is far from the worst character, at least we have matchups that are in neutral/our advantage as well as tournament results, unlike Falcon (sorry but he's screwed.)

 

[hyperstation]

Chill man. Look at what you posted. Look at how many posts you have made since only 6 months ago. 3000 posts in that amount of time equates to about 17 posts every day for 180 days straight. That's a lot of time man...get some air. It might do you well.

To get it down to only 16 posts a day, I suggest you stop trolling the Ganon boards. It's a start, right?

 

[Kinzer]

A lot of those posts aren't really anything, which is why I don't really consider my post count.

This really isn't helping my case, now is it?

 

[@HomE]

Why are you Defending sonic so hard in a GANONDORF forum...

is your job to patrol all the char specific forums waiting for someone to say "SONIC IS TEH WORSTEST" then you JUMP into action as the last defence for sonic's sterling reputation, dude... relax

as Hyperstation put quite well, it seems like you spend WAY to much time here.


PS. i think the MK forums are Talking **** about your boy sonic, GO GET EM

 

[Kinzer]

I have nothing better to do with my time, seeing as how my parents love me too much and don't even let me go out unless they suggest the idea of the movies or something. If you want me to get out of the house, go tell them to be like all other parents out there who could care less if their child goes out and gets kidnapped/*****/etc.

And yeah I'll go get them MK boys.

Let me just say though, how would you like it if I was on the Sonic boards, saying how Ganon was so bad that he should have his tier below the low-tier segment? Not Cool right? We all have our "fanboy" reaons for playing characters.

Over & out.