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Threading the Needle: A Beginner's Guide to Sheik

Lythium

underachiever
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Mar 6, 2009
Messages
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Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Threading the Needle: A Beginner's Guide to Sheik
By Lythium and Gaudeo


Introduction
Sheik is awesome. No, seriously. Unfortunately, there are not enough new Sheik players. So, Gaudeo and I have written this guide. Partly to entice new Sheikahs to join our midst, as mains, as casuals, and as beginners. We hope you like it because Gaudeo insisted upon using me as a punching bag a lot. Enjoy!

Background

Sheik is a character from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, and is the alter ego of Zelda. She aids in Link’s quest at various points by teaching him songs that allow him to teleport to various locations. She is frequently depicted as appearing and disappearing mysteriously. Sheik eventually unmasks herself to Link in the Temple of Time, only to be promptly abducted by Ganondorf. (Jeez, way to go.) Sheik first was first introduced to Smash in Super Smash Brothers Melee as the counterpart of Zelda, and enjoyed a high position on the tier list, unlike her counterpart. She’s also from the future! Isn’t that neat?

Pros
  • Fast, in terms of both running and attack speed.
  • Effective combos.
  • Has a reliable lock.
  • Good projectile.
  • Ability to transform into Zelda at any time.
  • Two ways to recover.

Cons
  • Lacks killing options until higher percents.
  • Weight means that she can be killed earlier than some other characters.

Moveset

Name
Description: a description of the move.
Damage: the amount of damage that said move deals fresh.
Knockback: how far the attack will knock opponents back.
Kills At: the percent at which the move will kill Mario, without DI, from the center of Final Destination.
Notes on the advantages, disadvantages, and possible uses of the attack.

Jab


Description: Sheik sweeps her hand left then right, then jabs repeatedly with her arm straight and fingers extended.
Damage: First two hits deals 3%. Jabs deal 2%, or 1% if hit with the tips of her fingers.
Knockback: Little to none.
Kills At: N/A
Sheik’s Jab is of the infinite variety, meaning once she gets to the third hit she can keep it going forever without interruption for as long as A is held or pressed. It is an effective way to deal a bit of quick damage to an opponent; however, it is easy to DI out of the repeated jabs. It is recommended that when you use it, you only keep it going for a short time to avoid being punished. You can jab cancel the first and second hit of the jab string by pressing down to duck and using another move. For detailed information on how to do this see the Advanced Guide.

Forward Tilt

Description: Sheik kicks her leg forward in an arc.
Damage: 5%
Knockback: Vertical, very little.
Kills At: 305%
The Forward Tilt is Sheik’s bread and butter, providing her with an effective way to rack up damage and combo. It can be linked to almost any attack, though Up Tilt and Up Smash work best because it pops your opponent towards you and a bit up, meaning you can line those two up nicely. You can also follow up a Forward Tilt with another Forward Tilt allowing you to create large combos. To perform a tilt lock using Forward Tilt, press A just as Sheik’s foot reaches the ground, however most characters can break out of a lock at about 50% damage, give or take.

Up Tilt

Description: Sheik raises her leg above her head and slams it down.
Damage: First hit deals 6%. Second hit deals 7%.
Knockback: Predominantly vertical, low.
Kills At: 210%
The Up Tilt is notable for its high priority and ability to combo. It also hits a bit behind Sheik and so can be used to intercept opponents all around her. This, in addition to the good priority, makes it a good attack to use defensively. It also combos very well from a forward tilt, and will usually hit twice when doing so.

Down Tilt


Description: Sheik performs a quick spin while kicking the ground.
Damage: 8%
Knockback: Vertical, low to medium.
Kills At: 250%
Sheik’s Down Tilt hits low and can be used as a both as a combo starter and a utility move. There is a sweetspot on Sheik's foot during the attack. If it hits, it pops opponents vertically and lines them up perfectly for a follow-up with an aerial. Additionally, against fast falling characters, it can be comboed into second Down Tilt.. It is an easy move to jab cancel with for a bit of extra damage. Finally, using your Down Tilt puts you very low to the ground, and can be used as a way to avoid an incoming attack or to set yourself up to counter. (Special thanks to Tristan win for the info)

Smashes

Forward Smash


Description: Sheik kicks twice in front of her, moving forward with each kick.
Damage: First kick deals 5% (uncharged) or 7% (fully charged). Second kick deals 9% (uncharged) or 12% (fully charged).
Knockback: Horizontal, medium to high.
Kills At: 110% charged, 150% uncharged.
Despite its horizontal range, the Forward Smash is only marginally useful when you are far from your opponent. The only way to ensure that the second hit, which houses the move’s killing power, is to hit with Sheik’s thigh on the first kick. Otherwise the move can be shielded, spot dodged, or punished. Some opponents, like Marth, can actually roll backwards the same distance that the Forward Smash moves Sheik forward and end up right in front of you after the attack finishes to punish you if you space it incorrectly. However, it is a two-hit combo with good range, so with practice, the forward smash can be put to good use for both damage building and KO’s.

Up Smash

Description: Sheik raises both arms above her head held together, and then forcefully slashes them back down away from her sides. The first hit hits on her body and the second where the wind forms around her.
Damage: First hit deals 17% (uncharged) or 23% (fully charged). Second hit deals 12% (uncharged) or 17% (fully charged).
Knockback: Vertical (first hit) or horizontal (second hit), high to very high.
Kills At: 60% charged, sweetspotted. 80% uncharged, sweetspotted. 105% charged, unsweetspotted. 150% uncharged, unsweetspotted.
Sheik’s best smash for killing. The attack consists of two hits, the first of which has a sweetspot at the top, and sends opponents vertically. The second does not have a sweetspot, and sends opponents off at a diagonal angle. The first has the best killing potential, although the second is no slouch. The sweetspot for the first attack is at the tips of Sheik’s fingers right as she starts to bring her hands back down. It isn’t the easiest sweetspot to land, but it’s definitely worth it to learn how to. In many cases, especially at lower percents, you can land both hits for about 30% damage. You can follow a Forward Tilt with an Up Smash for some excellent damage and kill potential as well in some circumstances. DACUS is also an effective way to land an Up Smash, and you can learn about it in the Advanced Guide.

Down Smash


Description: Sheik spins on her back on the ground, sticking her legs out.
Damage: First hit deals 13% (uncharged) or 18% (fully charged). Second and third hits deal 10% (uncharged) or 14% (fully charged).
Knockback: Diagonal and up, high.
Kills At: 115% charged, 160% uncharged.
The Down Smash is one of Sheik’s best options for getting an opponent to lay off her, and is generally a good attack to surprise an opponent. It comes out fast with multiple hits, long range, and good knockback, so you can use it to give yourself some space against an opponent who is pressuring you. It is also a fairly reliable kill move on its own at higher percents. You can sometimes hit twice with a Down Smash at lower percents, but it normally it will knock them away before it can. The first hit is strongest, so aim to land it by using it when close. Down smash can also be used after a Jab Cancel; however it is not extraordinarily effective after a Forward Tilt since the Tilt pushes characters so high, though it is still a viable option if the opponent tries to DI down.

Aerials

Neutral Air


Description: Sheik performs a forward kick.
Damage: Deals 13% during the first frames, then 5% for the remainder.
Knockback: Horizontal, medium at sweetspot, otherwise low.
Kills At: 165%
Mostly used as a killing attack and combo ender, the Neutral Air has slightly more range than the Forward Air, and has significantly greater knock back. If you do not manage to hit in those frames the attack is largely useless. It has too much lag to effectively combo, but you can use it to get an opponent off of you since it comes out quick.

Forward Air


Description: Sheik claws her left hand in front of her.
Damage: Deals 9%.
Knockback: Horizontal, medium to low.
Kills At: 190%
Sheik’s Forward Air is basically built for comboing, since it has very little knockback and sets you up for another attack. The attack if fairly fast and is a good follow up for any attack that knocks opponents into the air in front of you. However because of the low knockback, be prepared to follow your Forward Air up or else you are going to get hit right back when the opponent recovers from hitstun.

Up Air

Description: Sheik performs a quick screwdriver kick.
Damage: Deals 11% during the first frames, then 6% for the remainder.
Knockback: Vertical, high at sweetspot, otherwise medium.
Kills At: 150%
The Up Air is an excellent option for following up anything that knocks your opponent into the air. The shape and size of the hitbox make it excellent option for attacking your opponent in the air. Like the Neutral Air, the Up Air is best used at the last possible moment to ensure that the most damaging frames hit the opponent. You can use your Up Air as a follow up to a Down Throw, since the Down Throw sends the opponent into a perfect position for it. You can also use it for a KO at higher percents.

Down Air


Description: Sheik performs a down kick, propelling herself at a downward angle.
Damage: 10%
Knockback: Low.
Kills At: 215%
Sheik's Down Air is a strong attack, which unfortunately, has limited use. The attack is laggy, with significant start up and end lag, and as such, telegraphs itself terribly. The only legitimate use for the Down Air is to escape from a juggle by quickly getting back to the ground. And if you hit your opponent, so much the better! Off the Stage, using Down Air is suicide.

Back Air

Description: Sheik performs a kick aimed behind her.
Damage: Deals 11% damage during the first frames, then 6% for the remainder.
Knockback: Medium to low.
Kills At: 195%
Sheik’s Back Air is a useful tool for killing. Like the Up and Neutral Air, the first few frames are the most powerful, and you should use your Back Air accordingly. It also has great range on its hitbox, and as such, it is one of your safer attacks.

Specials

Needle Storm (Neutral B)

Description: Sheik throws a slim, nearly-invisible needle.
Damage: Each needle deals 3% damage, allowing this move to deal a maximum of 18%.
Knockback: Very low.
Kills At: N/A
Needle Storm is an excellent projectile, and is an integral aspect of playing Sheik. Pressing B will cause Sheik to start charging her needles, and pressing B again will make her throw the needles out. Sheik can charge up to six needles at a time, giving her the ability to rack up 18% in damage. On the ground she will throw the needles horizontally forward, whereas in the air she will throw them at a 315 degree angle (down and forward). Needles are an excellent way to rack up damage against an opponent, and are also useful to disrupt attacks. For example, needles can hit Meta Knight out of the early parts of his tornado. You can also fire off a single needle by pressing B twice in quick succession. This is great to disrupt or harass an opponent, plus needles move very quickly and are practically invisible, making them difficult to dodge. Holding fully charged needles is also an excellent way to threaten an opponent, since it makes them reluctant to commit to anything that could be disrupted by it.

Chain (Side B)

Description: Sheik pulls out a long metal chain, which can be manipulated to whip the chain around.
Damage: Unknown.
Knockback: Insignificant, except medium at sweetspot.
Kills At: 595% sweetspotted, N/A unsweetspotted.
The chain is a strange attack. When it is deployed, Sheik extends it in front of her. You can hit an opponent 2 to 3 times, and then she pulls it back in. If you hold B, you can keep the chain out and move it with the analog stick. The chain is useful for keeping opponents at bay and punishing irregular movement patterns. It is also affected by the physics engine and so can be tossed over a ledge and left hanging, which is especially useful on Lylat Cruise and similar stages, where it nearly reaches the floor. When holding off an opponent it is important not to flail the chain wildly, as it has almost no knockback or hitstun, and persistent opponents can get in and attack through it. There is a sweetspot at the tip of the chain that has significantly more knockback and can be used to keep opponents back, so you should aim to repeatedly hit an opponent with that to keep them away. Off of the stage, the chain acts as a tether recovery, and has a deceptively long reach. Learning its range is key, as missing off of the stage means almost certain death. The chain can also be used to perform a lock, which is detailed in the Advanced Guide.

Vanish (Up B)

Description: Sheik vanishes into thin air. She reappears a short distance away.
Damage: Unknown.
Knockback: High.
Kills At: 135%
Vanish is one of Sheik’s recovery moves and also a good KO move. The hitbox for Vanish is the explosion when Sheik disappears. After she reappears, she is rendered helpless until she hits the ground, and has significant landing lag. You can choose where she reappears by tilting the control stick in that direction, making it somewhat unpredictable. Sheik also has some invincibility when the attack begins, giving her a bit of cover when she attempts it. Vanish also has the ability to be used as a counter, due to the invulnerability that it grants. The attack does make a distinctive noise when it starts up, making it somewhat hard to catch opponents with. In the air Sheik hops up slightly before the explosion, which may catch opponents sometimes. Sheik can also perform some extraordinary edgeguarding with Vanish, and you can read all about it in the Advanced Guide.

Transform (Down B)

Description: Sheik transforms into Zelda.
Damage: None.
Knockback: N/A
Kills At: N/A
For detailed information on how to play with Zelda, see the Zelda boards and the Advanced Guide. Choosing when and where to play as Zelda is largely a matter of personal preference and proficiency, and is not a requirement for playing as Sheik.

Other Attacks

Dash Attack


Description: Sheik throws her arms forward, and then forcefully separates them.
Damage: 7%
Knockback: Vertical, medium.
Kills At: 210%
The dash attack is a surprisingly good attack and a great way to mix up your approach game. It comes out fast and does good damage with little enough knockback at low percents that it can be followed through, and at very high percents it can be used as a KO if it is fresh. We recommend not overusing your Dash Attack because it is easily punished.

Ledge Attack


Description: Sheik swiftly kicks her foot up over the edge to the side. Over 100% she gets up slowly and lashes out with her elbow.
Damage: 8%
Knockback: Horizontal, very low.
Kills At: N/A
There’s nothing much to say about this attack. Like all Ledge Attacks it is easily countered and should only be used as a mix up.

Get-Up Attack


Description: Sheik kicks around her, or right and then over her head, depending on how she falls.
Damage: 6% if she fell, 5% if she tripped
Knockback: Negligible.
Kills At: N/A
I doubt many players really consider this a move. After you’ve fallen or tripped you can perform this move by hitting A. Useful in tech chases, but not much else.

Grabs & Throws

Pummel

Description: Sheik pulls back her fist and then hits the opponent.
Damage: 3%
Knockback: None.
Kills At: N/A
You can reliably Pummel once at low percents and more as an opponent’s percent rises. The damage is low, but it adds up over the course of a match, so don’t ignore it. It’s a good idea to do so, unless your opponent is at less than 10% before you throw. Sheik also has some limited grab release options, which are detailed in the Advanced Guide.

Forward Throw

Description: Sheik rams the opponent with her shoulder.
Damage: 3% then 2%
Knockback: Very low.
Kills At: 555%
The Forward Throw is marginally useful and should be used sparingly as a tool for confusing opponents and mixing things up. It hits fast and for good damage, but leaves you with limited options for follow up because of the forward knockback of the throw. It is easily followed up by a Forward Air however, and in some cases a Dash Attack can hit as they are coming to the ground.

Up Throw


Description: Sheik tosses the opponent in the air and then kicks them up with both legs.
Damage: 3%, then 2%
Knockback: Vertical, low.
Kills At: 515%
Up Throws are useful for setting up opponents for an up air, but not much else. The Up Throw is also Sheik’s least damaging throw.

Down Throw


Description: Sheik tosses the opponent down and the elbow drops onto them.
Damage: 3% then 3%
Knockback: Vertical, medium.
Kills At: 355%
The Down Throw is perfect for setting up several different aerial and ground based combos despite its slightly lower damage when compared to the back and forward throws. You can follow a Down Throw up with an Up Air, Neutral Air, or Forward Air until very high percents, and at low to mid percents you can even follow it up with ground attacks, most notably Up Smash and Forward Tilt.

Back Throw


Description: Sheik tosses her opponent behind her and knocks them away with a hard kick.
Damage: 3% then 2%
Knockback: Diagonal and up, low.
Kills At: 735%
The back throw is Sheik’s least useful throw. It doesn’t easily set up for any other attacks, and doesn’t do enough damage to warrant using it for its own sake. In most cases, you should only use this if you are aiming to put an opponent off stage so you can gimp them.

Tactics & Support

Sheik is an incredibly variable character who can be played in a wide variety of ways. The following is just a loose guide of the many options you have while playing Sheik. These are descriptions of how we play our Sheiks, but remember that no two players play Sheik in exactly the same way, so consider these as examples of how you can play a Sheik, rather than instructions on how Sheik must be played.

Lythium’s Sheik

In my experience, the key to playing an offensive Sheik is being relentless. Never give your opponent the chance to breathe, and throw your attacks out as often as you can. That being said, you will often be in a position where you are going to get hit. For an offensive Sheik, this doesn’t particularly matter because a reckless, calculating style is what I aim for. Any move that will rack up damage, do it. The quicker, the better! Combos and needles are essential to playing on offensive. I love tilt-locking, and it’s a great way to rack up damage for an offensive Sheik. Also, Sheik’s Forward Tilt can lead to almost any combo, making it invaluable for offensive play. I constantly have my needles charged, and pressuring opponents with needles is a great way to play offensively because your opponent literally won’t know what hit them. Even Sheik’s Forward Smash is good way to build damage. Pressuring will capitalize on your opponents’ weaknesses. Something to remember: mix things up! Constant attack doesn’t mean predictability. An offensive Sheik that is predictable will be punished badly. I find the chain exceptional for mixing things up. Whip it out to give your opponent a lovely sweetspotted tap with it, and by the time they recover, you’ll already be attacking. The chain is also a fun way to gimp opponent’s recovery. Also, knowing when to shield or dodge is ridiculously important for any offensive player. Sheik won’t do well against a fully-charged Warlock Punch. Play smart! P.S. – I never DACUS.

Gaudeo’s Sheik
Playing a defensive Sheik is all about using your ground speed to stay out of the opponents range. Pressure them with your needles and force them into approaching. Never give them room to breathe by tossing single needles frequently. I personally like to toss single needles in to disrupt approaches that you forced opponents into. Needles can be hard to follow up, so don’t get caught in the needle to dash attack trap. Mix it up, even if that means letting an opportunity go by. Your aim is to land small combos and get out before your opponent can hit you back. Sometimes just playing a simple punish game is enough, and other times you will need to be creative. Remember that Sheik’s jab comes out on the second frame, so you can catch opponents with it before their shield comes up. Also consider that Sheik’s chain has considerable range, and that you can manoeuvre it very quickly to intercept an opponent who is approaching. Just remember to focus on the tip, since hitting with the rest of the chain is going to be painful for you. Even on defence mixing things up is key. By changing the attacks you punish with and the ranges you punish at, you can ensure that an opponent cannot recognize your patterns and counter punish you. I mix my killing moves in from the beginning as well, both because they do good damage at the end of a combo, and because I have found that opponents tend to stop reacting to them as killing moves and so play around them less effectively at high percents. DACUS is a good way to punish an opponent, but in my experience Sheik’s amazing Forward Tilt is not. Forward Tilt locking is, in my opinion, too prone to being countered to be used effectively in a defensive game. However the key to playing defensively is to be unpredictable, so use whatever you find effective.

Useful Threads

Match-Up Thread – A detailed guide to Sheik’s match-ups. Currently in the works, but very helpful.
SinkingHigher's Advanced Guide – A guide to both Sheik and Zelda’s ATs and glitches. So incredibly useful for taking your Sheik to the next level.
Sheik WiFi Friend Finder – A thread where you can connect with other Sheik players to practice and compare techniques.
Sheik Video & Video Critique Thread – A thread where you can watch videos of other players matches or post your own for analysis by the community.

Not enough? Check out Voyeur's Sheik Boards Catalog.
 

Gaudeo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
33
Location
Halifax, NS, Canada
We're reserving this post for future edits.

If anyone wishes to provide us with a short write up of how they play with Sheik we would be happy to include it in the guide along with ours.
 

East

Crappy Imitation
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
763
Location
Doing Tricks in a Mansion Location: Tokyo, JP
Um.... can we please stop making guides... Perhaps everyone interested, should come together [under SinkingHigher, who if I'm not mistaken oversees the Sheik guide to everything] and make a massive one. I'm also sure a guide similar to this was created by Ankoku quite some time back.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=179565 <Here's a Link to it]

It's not as though the effort isn't appreciated, but perhaps you should collaborate with the people who have already created guides very similar and ask them to just add the information you've found to their aforementioned guides.
 

Lythium

underachiever
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
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Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Um.... can we please stop making guides... Perhaps everyone interested, should come together [under SinkingHigher, who if I'm not mistaken oversees the Sheik guide to everything] and make a massive one. I'm also sure a guide similar to this was created by Ankoku quite some time back.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=179565 <Here's a Link to it]

It's not as though the effort isn't appreciated, but perhaps you should collaborate with the people who have already created guides very similar and ask them to just add the information you've found to their aforementioned guides.
The Guide to Everything seems to have a direct focus of helping mid to high level Sheiks. It seems a little daunting for a new player to understand.

Ankoku's old guide had slipped off the radar, and I couldn't find it by searching the forum. Plus, that thread is over a year old.

We thought an updated guide would be helpful for new Sheiks. Mostly because when I picked Sheik as my main, there seems to be no available resources for that demographic.
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Can we please start having participants in the Sheik community who post up helpful topics and make big announcements actually place/show their placements?

It's really tiresome to see people who NOBODY has ever heard of posting guides to Sheik.

Lead when you have experience, please -__-
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
22,906
Location
Milpitas, CA
NNID
SSBM_PLAYER
Can we please start having participants in the Sheik community who post up helpful topics and make big announcements actually place/show their placements?

It's really tiresome to see people who NOBODY has ever heard of posting guides to Sheik.

Lead when you have experience, please -__-
I disagree. They can do whatever the **** they feel like.

The dash attack is a surprisingly good attack and a great way to mix up your approach game. It comes out fast and does good damage with little enough knockback at low percents that it can be followed through, and at very high percents it can be used as a KO if it is fresh. We recommend not overusing your Dash Attack because it is easily punished.
Haha, you must be talking about Melee.
 

chainmaillekid

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
236
NNID
CHAINMAILLEKID
3DS FC
1805-2525-8280
Um.... can we please stop making guides... Perhaps everyone interested, should come together [under SinkingHigher, who if I'm not mistaken oversees the Sheik guide to everything] and make a massive one. I'm also sure a guide similar to this was created by Ankoku quite some time back.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=179565 <Here's a Link to it]

It's not as though the effort isn't appreciated, but perhaps you should collaborate with the people who have already created guides very similar and ask them to just add the information you've found to their aforementioned guides.
^^^

We need a massive guide like the one the pikachu board has come up with.

Its like 40 pages when pasted into MS word, It has absolutly EVERYTHING!

( I think the pikachu community is by far the most organized, Pikachu is only high tier because the community is so good IMO )
 

Gaudeo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
33
Location
Halifax, NS, Canada
I'm glad to have such a range of responses on the guide. If anyone has anything they would like added to the guide, post it here or message one of us, we'd be happy to add it. We will also do our best to amend mistakes we made if you point them out.

@Ankoku: the truth is I haven't been a proper Sheik main since Melee (she's moved down a couple of slots since then), and I was the one who wrote that part, so chances are that my memories of old crept back in. I'll have a look at it and fix it up. Thanks.

@Rog~er and Chainmaillekid: Originally we had concepted this as a brief guide for newer players who needed a little help getting started, since I think that the Guide to Everything is a great resource for players looking to learn more than just the basics. However if there's interest in the community we would certainly allow this to be expanded into an all encompassing guide. The one one the Pikachu boards was actually the model we used for the moveset section.

@Clowsui: It wasn't our intention to come in here and act like we lead the community. We recognize that the Sheik boards have a strong stock of experienced people on it. However it also seems like at this point they probably have better things to do and discuss, so what exactly is the problem with throwing one up there?

Edit: I looked over the dash attack, and it looks like I ignored how it behaved after about 30%, so we'll have that fixed up as soon as I can talk to Lythium.
 

Tristan_win

Not dead.
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
3,845
Location
Currently Japan
I stop reading at the dtilt does not truely combo into anything.

Go to training mode, set fox to like 10% and do two dtilts make sure the foot part hits. It's listed as a combo.

DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU DID JUST THERE?

You more or less suggested a move had no true combo protential, what if a new player for sheik reads that and after only a little testing decide the move wasn't useful. I use the dtilt, dtilt, ftilt lock as a stable combo on all of the faster fallers in the cast and it WORKS even though it's possible to di out of. The dtilt also combos into other attacks as well such as fair, dtilt, ftilt. Dtilt, uair, and maybe more.
Decay will most likely make it combo even more. For the hell of it I’ve done dtilt into full hop fair strings!

You guys might be scrubs or you two might be sleepier pros with sheik it doesn’t matter really but if you go around and making claims about things that you don’t truly understand you will not help other sheik players but limit there potential to improve and overall making them worst.

EDIT THAT ****.
 

SinkingHigher

Smash Lord
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
1,886
Location
Canada
*sigh*

I honestly don't see this going very far but I hope you prove me wrong.

Unfortunately, doing that will require a lot of editing. Much of the information is over simplified and sometimes wrong (for instace, d-tilt, Usmash, "cons", Vanish, and more)

Imo, you're not qualified to write a guide on Sheik. I'm not saying that I am, but you seem to have little understanding of almost all of her moves. Many of your suggested setups either don't work, have a better option, or will get you punished. I'm all for a guide like this if it will really help the Sheik community instead of sitting there and doing nothing.

Meh. I just don't understand why people need to know that when Sheik Upsmashes she raises her arms above her head and swings them down... Why write a guide when all the information can be found by just pressing the buttons.
 

KuroKitt10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
233
Location
Oregon
^^^

We need a massive guide like the one the pikachu board has come up with.

Its like 40 pages when pasted into MS word, It has absolutly EVERYTHING!

( I think the pikachu community is by far the most organized, Pikachu is only high tier because the community is so good IMO )
Hello. Pikachu main here. I couldn't agree with chainmaillekid more. Sheik needs a thorough, comprehensive, accurate, and well written guide for newer players and experienced players alike. I would like to waggle a finger at anyone who's insulting the work that Lythium and Gaudeo have done.

I have recently picked up Sheik as a for fun character in addition to my main and secondaries for competitive play. I decided to drop by these forums in order to see what had been figured out about Sheik already and to hopefully learn some good techniques. I'll be honest, the forums need some good orginization - I've had a terrible time finding even the most basic of basics on sheik, let alone any useful information about more advanced tech. DACUS, some chain techniques, and some vanish tricks are about all I've been able to find so far. Point in case - if there is anything else to know about Sheik, I'm having a hard time locating it as a new player to her.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not insulting anyone, what work has been done is fabulous! And I have to say, I absolutely love Sheik and I can't begin to tell you how much I would love to see her succeed and become a fleshed out character like some of the more high teir characters. I think the Sheik community as a whole needs to get together and start organizing some nice guides.

We shouldn't be insulting the people who try and compile these things - if the information is wrong, nicely inform them, discuss it, and get it edited. This guide, though short, is very well organized and written. We need more of these, and we need them compiled into one big thing.

I will be playing Sheik a lot more over the coming weeks, months, and throughout this year. I will of course contribute in any way I can, and any new tricks or information I find I will report. Lythium and Gaudeo, I'd be happy to help you guys with this guide, and I'm more than happy to help out anywhere else I'm needed. I made up a really nice Matchup picture for the Pika boards a while back, and I'd be more than glad to do the same for the Sheik boards.

Also, Lythium and Gaudeo, we should talk to SinkingHigher about combining these two threads, and building, as chainmaillekid said, a guide to everything like the Pika boards have.

Me-ow!
 

Tristan_win

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Kitt22 the problem with us written a guild is that you generally need to know what you are talking about when you try to right such a thing. Since I've started using sheik in brawl I've had to change the focus of my style roughly 3 times now. Right now I'm changing it again and still need to smooth out all the little detail that I didn't even know to know I would be having to.

Sheik isn't like pikachu where it's generally accepted that quick attack canceling is the way of the future or chain grabs are very useful. Sheik does have great tool but we can't decide how to use them or how much.

A good example would be how much someone uses Zelda. Zelda is a tool sheik users use to gain kills but as of yet we have yet to decide what is necessary the best way to use Zelda. We all have are own ideas about how and when to use Zelda and because of this it help make each sheik style more unique.

There's nothing wrong being unique in fact it's usually a good thing but in a community it makes it harder to generally come to a agreement with a whole bunch of different people then those that are more similar.

edit: You know what, I figure out how and when we could be making a guild. The only time it will be possible for us to make a guild is when someone like Neo, Ryoko, Chok, Champ, myself, Cross, Villi, Ankoku(yes ankoku we all know you are not that good), or some other good sheik user start winning many tournaments and we start getting videos of their style or they are activity talking about it.

Then and only then will enough people will be able to agree upon what is good to do because that person showed that what they are doing WORKS.
 

Gaudeo

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I'm glad we're getting constructive responses. We're noting all of the issues people have with the guide and will update them in the next edit which is due out sometime this week. I want to point out that this is a first draft, and we recognize that the senior members of the community probably know better than us, so we will be keeping an eye on every objection and will not ignore criticism to the content of the guide.

@Tristan Win: I've taken note of what you said about D-Tilt, and we'll update it as soon as Lythium has some time. I don't use my D-Tilt for much except shield poking, so I neglected to note the uses against fastfallers. Also I have an inkling that I was a bit glib at times in my parts, so I'll be looking into that. Our intention was not to make any attack appear useless, but rather to outline the basic uses of each attack, along with the raw data so that players could develop their own playstyle accordingly.

@Sinkinghigher: I will be the first to contend that I am not a top level player, and that there are probably members of the community who are much better suited to putting together a comprehensive Sheik guide. I have a great deal of reverence to your own guide, but it is certainly not geared towards newcomers. We were just attempting to fill a small hole in the information available, since it seems like the boards have moved into more important and technical discussions.

@Kitt22: I think that a comprehensive guide is a great idea, although I'm not sure that I am qualified to put it together. That said, if you want something added to the guide, or if you figure out something that we overlooked, please let us know. I'm best suited to doing the grunt work, so I'll gladly add anything mentioned here, and credit whoever submitted it of course.

Edited: Sorry, apparently I cannot type or spell today.
 

Tristan_win

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Oh if your update the dtilt then you should also mention that htting someone with the foot send them completely horizontal and hitting someone with the thigh makes them get hit away. (don’t know the angle sorry.)

You should also mention that the inner thigh if it hits shield can push a lot of the cast out of shield grab range. You should also note that some characters are unable to grab sheik leg after she does a dtilt or even when she’s crouch without being very close such as Snake.

You should take note of it's priority and how sheik is so low to the ground it enable her to beat a large amount of aerial attacks in the game such as Zeldas or all of marios beside his fair. You should also note while your at it is since sheik is so low to the ground it's easier to power shield attacks since you just have to wait for them to enter the space right where sheik would be normally when shielding. So not only can you make it harder for attacks to reach you from the air but you can easily power shield those same attacks and counter attack.

I use the dtilt and crouch for all of those things and for low % comboing as well but just because I use it just for those things does not mean it doesn't have more options like mid % comboing or more unique traits that can be exploited.
 

KuroKitt10

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Kitt22 the problem with us written a guild is that you generally need to know what you are talking about when you try to right such a thing. Since I've started using sheik in brawl I've had to change the focus of my style roughly 3 times now. Right now I'm changing it again and still need to smooth out all the little detail that I didn't even know to know I would be having to.

Sheik isn't like pikachu where it's generally accepted that quick attack canceling is the way of the future or chain grabs are very useful. Sheik does have great tool but we can't decide how to use them or how much.

A good example would be how much someone uses Zelda. Zelda is a tool sheik users use to gain kills but as of yet we have yet to decide what is necessary the best way to use Zelda. We all have are own ideas about how and when to use Zelda and because of this it help make each sheik style more unique.

There's nothing wrong being unique in fact it's usually a good thing but in a community it makes it harder to generally come to a agreement with a whole bunch of different people then those that are more similar.

edit: You know what, I figure out how and when we could be making a guild. The only time it will be possible for us to make a guild is when someone like Neo, Ryoko, Chok, Champ, myself, Cross, Villi, Ankoku(yes ankoku we all know you are not that good), or some other good sheik user start winning many tournaments and we start getting videos of their style or they are activity talking about it.

Then and only then will enough people will be able to agree upon what is good to do because that person showed that what they are doing WORKS.
I understand =) It seems like the sheik forums have still got quite a lot of info to find out. I just wanted to try and encourage this sort of organization, because it really is good work being done. I still feel that all of these guide writers should try and get in contact, and talk about compiling all of their different guides into one organized master guide, however. I actually dug up a few more guides which were not stickied, but I had to go searching for them. It would be really great to have all of this information easily obtainable for newer sheiks.

Meow.
 

Lythium

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Oh if your update the dtilt then you should also mention that htting someone with the foot send them completely horizontal and hitting someone with the thigh makes them get hit away. (don’t know the angle sorry.)

You should also mention that the inner thigh if it hits shield can push a lot of the cast out of shield grab range. You should also note that some characters are unable to grab sheik leg after she does a dtilt or even when she’s crouch without being very close such as Snake.

You should take note of it's priority and how sheik is so low to the ground it enable her to beat a large amount of aerial attacks in the game such as Zeldas or all of marios beside his fair. You should also note while your at it is since sheik is so low to the ground it's easier to power shield attacks since you just have to wait for them to enter the space right where sheik would be normally when shielding. So not only can you make it harder for attacks to reach you from the air but you can easily power shield those same attacks and counter attack.

I use the dtilt and crouch for all of those things and for low % comboing as well but just because I use it just for those things does not mean it doesn't have more options like mid % comboing or more unique traits that can be exploited.
Thanks for the input, Tristan. I'll be sure to include it in our upcoming edit. Hopefully, later in the week. It is exam crunch time.

Also, anyone else with critiques, comments, and edits, we'd be happy to hear them, and include them in our guide.
 

BRoomer
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Kitt22 the problem with us written a guild is that you generally need to know what you are talking about when you try to right such a thing. Since I've started using sheik in brawl I've had to change the focus of my style roughly 3 times now. Right now I'm changing it again and still need to smooth out all the little detail that I didn't even know to know I would be having to.

Sheik isn't like pikachu where it's generally accepted that quick attack canceling is the way of the future or chain grabs are very useful. Sheik does have great tool but we can't decide how to use them or how much.

A good example would be how much someone uses Zelda. Zelda is a tool sheik users use to gain kills but as of yet we have yet to decide what is necessary the best way to use Zelda. We all have are own ideas about how and when to use Zelda and because of this it help make each sheik style more unique.

There's nothing wrong being unique in fact it's usually a good thing but in a community it makes it harder to generally come to a agreement with a whole bunch of different people then those that are more similar.

edit: You know what, I figure out how and when we could be making a guild. The only time it will be possible for us to make a guild is when someone like Neo, Ryoko, Chok, Champ, myself, Cross, Villi, Ankoku(yes ankoku we all know you are not that good), or some other good sheik user start winning many tournaments and we start getting videos of their style or they are activity talking about it.

Then and only then will enough people will be able to agree upon what is good to do because that person showed that what they are doing WORKS.
I disagree. The point of a guide is to inform people of moves properties and such. Not a "how to" there are no real set ways to play any character. Its not so much about agreeing one play style as it is about explain all effective posibilities.
 

Tristan_win

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I disagree. The point of a guide is to inform people of moves properties and such. Not a "how to" there are no real set ways to play any character. Its not so much about agreeing one play style as it is about explain all effective posibilities.
<3 if there's no set way on how to play a character then how come so many people style are so similar? How come people watch pros?

Yes it is possible to have multiple styles in Brawl for some characters for the most part the differences from player to player aren’t large at all... It's like a lot of the characters in brawl have only one song they dance to, it's just the less experiences dancers don't know all the steps like the pros do.
 

Blistering Speed

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I remember you saying this when I was going to make the moveset discussion thread (I will update this tonight after my Latin exam) and maybe individuality isn't always good in playing a character. The reason people attempted to copy M2k's Marth is because it's the most effective way of playing that character, if you started throwing in B Air's as an approach for no reason other then to not be a 'copy' then you are playing a lesser form of the playstyle for a trivial reason.

Guides don't tell people how to play per say, they tell you what are the best situations in which to use moves and strategies, which by following you are playing at a higher skill, you can choose to do otherwise and use your U Tilt more then your F Tilt, but it wont make you any better.
 

BRoomer
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@ Tristan
Example. I don't chain and rarely if ever dacus. I walk instead of run and short hop near perfectly spaced aerials waiting for openings for dash grabs or dash attacks or ftilts. I shield poke/stab often with bair and follow up with edge guards. When I don't like a situation for any reason I leave charge needles and force a reset. this works wonders for me on characters ranging from DK to IC, GaW to Snake.

Who's to say my play style is flawed? Simply because I don't imitate "more successful" sheiks doesn't mean my method is invalid.
And I put that in quotes because many of these successful sheiks are playing in dare I say poorly skilled regions where you can get by with bad habits and horrible spacing.

The pro sheiks you've spoken of many a time play very very differently and have all seen their fair share of success regardless. In fact you often talk about splicing their own traits into your own.

@Blistering Speed
I don't really care about being an individual... I guess. That doesn't make you good, lol. But people who are content to be told how to play never advance. People who will look out side of the box and actually explore new ideas and concepts are the ones that progress a community, or at least advance themselves. That said I'm not talking about doing something silly like you mentioned utilting instead of ftilting. But there are many things that people overlook because "a move should never be used", dtilt is a crazy good anti aerial verus so much of the cast marth and meta to name an important few. And it's just on of many examples of over looked moves not just for sheik but in general.
 

Zankoku

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The only move that should never be used is dair if you're anywhere near the ground.
 

Tristan_win

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The only move that should never be used is dair if you're anywhere near the ground.
The dair is good for punishing predictable ledge attacks or stand up into grab or shield. Because of the knock back it has on shield it will push them off which if they aren't prepare will force them back onto the ledge if it doesn't connect. The cool down is also not much compared to the roll off ledge and it has good priority and range so it can beat some aerial attacks if they jump.

With that all said the move still sucks to be used like that but hey, it's another option...


Oh and <3 I wasn't using "pro sheiks" as a example since as of yet we don't have any not saying they aren't greatly skill they just don't take money home oftne really and more importantly like none of us play a like. As of now sheik has many high level play different styles when compared to some of the other cast like G&W who do not.
 

Blistering Speed

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@Blistering Speed
I don't really care about being an individual... I guess. That doesn't make you good, lol. But people who are content to be told how to play never advance. People who will look out side of the box and actually explore new ideas and concepts are the ones that progress a community, or at least advance themselves. That said I'm not talking about doing something silly like you mentioned utilting instead of ftilting. But there are many things that people overlook because "a move should never be used", dtilt is a crazy good anti aerial verus so much of the cast marth and meta to name an important few. And it's just on of many examples of over looked moves not just for sheik but in general.
Err, my post was actually directed at Tristan, but ok. Wait, so all people who conform to a tried and true playstyle never advance? Granted, the best players will use it as a stepping stone and advance from there, but are there people actually stupid enough to read a guide and then only follow that guide exactly? Maybe I'm overestimating human intelligence but I'm not sure if anyone's that stupid.

Yes, Sheik has overlooked moves, who's the guy who made the Moveset Discussion thread?

If D Tilt is a very good anti aerial move, then it'll be mentioned in the guide, if we're assuming it's comprehensive. If the guide said that it was a move that should never be used and yet it's a very good anti aerial move, then it's a bad guide.
 

BRoomer
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I've seen successful snakes sport many different play styles, diddys, Falcos. I don't follow GaW but I'm sure you'll see varience in how people play him as well. I was playing with XYZ last night for example a great GaW player from Central FL (he's going to APEX meet up with him if you can) he didn't rely on bair like most GaWs seem to, but instead used a lot of hard to punish mix ups to keep me guessing the whole match.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172368
compare say... Leepuff to OBM or... anyone to anyone else for that matter.
 

Lythium

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We made some alterations to the guide based on the suggestions in the thread, particularly the extremely helpful comments by Tristan win (Thanks!). However we chose to keep some things out, like discussions of decay because there are other guides up already where it fits better.

In reference to the simplicity of this guide, it was intentional. Different guides are designed with different audiences in mind, some exist to instruct players on how to play a character or use a move while others exist as references and compilations of data. I think that the general purpose of a beginners guide is to do no more than tell a new player exactly what an attack does, and the basic things that it can be used for, without getting into dictating how an attack should be used. This sort of guide exists to ease the learning curve for someone just getting into a character, so that they do not have to work out the properties of a move on their own.
 

SinkingHigher

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The only move that should never be used is dair if you're anywhere near the ground.
Originally I felt the same way. The only use for d-air was a quick SD, but I'm starting to wonder...

On MK, of all people, it seems to be a fairly good surprise move. She doesn't fall vertically so it's a little hard to predict her landing. Well, harder. Strangely enough it seems to have pretty good priority.
 

Lythium

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Okay, SWFers. I'm still alive. I've survived my exams, and unfortunately, have started a reading intensive summer course. But that is neither here nor there. I'm just trying to justify my absence.

I've made some minor adjustments and updates to the guide. Also, I've had an idea to throw out there. Gaudeo and myself wrote descriptions of our playing styles, and asked other Sheik players to contribute. However, I had a thought that if someone wanted to contribute a video of their playing style, that would be pretty nifty too. And possibly more useful for some players. So, if you have a video that displays your style, we'd be indebted to you if you would let us add it to our guide.
 
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