Suggestions for edits to the current set
Suggestions for CF:
Remove the d-throw angle change (if hitstun is at .46): d-throw combos now require a lot of precision to execute even without the DI, when they are even possible. With DI the d-throw combos are all gone for all but a select few (Jiggs, MK, etc) who will still get ***** cause they're too floaty to tech out of the combo. D-throw is substantially more useful against the floaty characters due to it being a weight dependent throw. The hitstun reduction makes it only really work at all on below average weight characters.
Lower the up-throw IASA (if hitstun is at .46) by 6 frames: this will give Falcon an initial advantage of 15 on most characters, not high enough for a knee combo to work (though it will at higher %), but enough for up-air with a good read on DI. It would balance out his available combos with what d-throw lost by giving him a means to combo FFers and heavies out of a throw. Seeing as it Falcon doesn't exactly have the most hax grab in the world, I see no issue with this.
bring the b-throw up to an acceptable standard by bringing the IASA down ~8 frames (at .46, 6 frames if the hitstun is at .48) (minimum adv 1 w/o DI): This is something I've wanted for a long time. We changed Marth's b-throw IASA because it was garbage right?! WRONG! We did it cause it was Marth and its well known how bad his b-throw is. There are tons of other throws just as bad, bringing ALL of them to a benchmark of non-s***iness will not unbalance the game at all. All throws should have a minimum advantage of 1 (ie, unpunishable, no throw that can't KO should ever be used if its got a negative frame advantage...). Its very very reasonable and will add no new true combos to the game. Currently a throw with a negative advantage is simply a vestigial limb, and since we will inevitably want to improve some of these throws, I feel the only non-biased way to do this is to apply relatively minor tweeks to all of them. This is actually FAR less radical than it sounds, and it IS important. We never do anything systematically and that's the cause of most of the issues we faced... ever, this is a chance to make a uniform change, with minimal balance effects, because it would be logically consistent to do so.
Facts:
Comboing into the knee from a ground move requires an absolute minimum advantage of 18 (jump + the startup). Once you account for the initial buffered dash and aerial movement, you will need 22 frames or more. The initial advantages on d-throw range from 15 for Bowser to 23 for Jigglypuff. This is however, assuming the opponent does not tech, which they will be able to far more often than not.
D-throw knee will no longer work as a true combo (at 0, regardless of DI) against: Bowser, DK, Snake, DDD, Charizard, Ganon, Samus, Wario, Yoshi, Rob, Ike, CF, Link, Wolf, Ivy, Lucario, Mario, Luigi, sonic, Lucas, Ness, Pit, dK. Perfect DI and FFing into a tech kills d-throw knee initially for the whole cast, as % increase it becomes possible to perform on floatier, lighter characters.
The effect of the angle change is more significant than the hitstun change. D-throw lost 5 frames off its advantage window due to hitstun, but can lose substantially more when DI is taken into account. Ex. Initial Advantage d-throwing bowser if he doesn't DI: 16 frame advantage, no combos here... alternately he can DI and tech yielding a -1 frame advantage. LOLWUT!! EWWWW
The hitstun is a less effective measure than the angle change, and has the unfortunate effect of killing much of the combo potential of this move even without DI.
d-throw knee still works from 0-200+ against Jiggs, possibly other floaty characters as well >.< WTF
If as retardedly easy a combo as d-throw knee got weakened this much, it really makes me question the hitstun change. I honestly may try out the beta with hitstun at .48 again to see the difference.
Changing that angle on this move may be a good idea if we aren't returning hitstun to its default state. A lot of characters will yield a negative advantage if they DI and tech, the gold standard for "no longer worth it" imo.
