Meta "This is the Monado's Power" - Metagame Discussion

[AlvisCPU]

What I find with Speed is that I tend to fall into repetition too much: If I wanna grab, I keep trying instead of changing tactics after a whiff. Stage control is great, but not when we're idiots about it, like I am. I find that speed is nice in certain matchups, but the reduced damage output makes it feel like a wash. For that 30% I packed on in speed, I could have just gone Vanilla or Buster and did the same in half the time. So, I feel it takes a lot of know-how to use speed right. I'm still working on it... I know Speed is good, but I personally suck at using it.

For some reason, I don't find Meta Knight too terrifying to fight as Shulk. Especially when I use Jump to edgeguard. (Heck, Jump is good for edgeguarding any way you slice it.) I've really gotten back into the swing of using Jump, but I noticed a terrible trend in myself: In any given battle, there's usually one or two arts I completely neglect to use, even when they're good in the situation.

What are your opinions on using Buster against bruisers? It seems to put Shulk on an even footing, damage-wise, but it also makes their hits all the more devastating... Roy in particular seems to just kill Shulk (and 75% of the cast) at stupid early percents. Jump does wonders when edgeguarding him, but it also is crazy risky with Shulk's weight-reduction.

I haven't fought many projectile-heavy characters in a while, but I think I agree with the sentiment. Speed either goes well for me, I get the rushdown going, or the opponent starts playing Shield-Grab: The Game, because I keep trying to kamikaze nairs into people. Or I'll keep trying to dash grab and getting punished. In Buster I'll tend to play a bit more safe. Since I can't roll around at the speed of sound, I'll watch what they do and try to keep them at mid-range. I play smarter somehow.

As for heavies, I like Buster against them. Not sure if it's a good idea, but I like it. I regularly go up against an awesome Ganondorf player in local tourneys and Buster seems to go down well. Of course, there's a lot of factors, maybe he doesn't know the matchup, whatever. But I tend to find that Ganon (like most hard hitters) is pretty susceptible to combos even at high percents, so even a short string of hits can be worth it. Going against Ganondorf especially, screwing up once can get you punished hard - going into Buster adds "DON'T GET HIT" to the forefront of my mind and it seems to work. I use a lot of Speed as well to get in/out, but in general, jab and grab as a generic "fast move" and things like dtilt and nair to space him out. I'd expect the same to apply to most of the other heavy guys.
As long as you play patiently, you keep people out of your face and you don't be an idiot with it, it's worth it.

Shulk's Discord has a pretty good Mega Man named Kam, and against him I love to use Monado Speed RAR Nairs. It really does wonders!

As for Link, I focus on Monado Jump, but go into Buster when up close. Maybe some speed, but the lowered jump height can hurt.

I also secondary Link, and when I face Shulks, I know that I really need to utilize my long distance grab. I just spam projectiles, shield when they get near, and shield grab if they hit, or shield grab in advance if I see a tomahawk coming. It's easy and very hard to get around...

Anyways, as a Shulk, I like to bring projectile users to Smashville. It's a small stage, and the platform moving above can create opportunities to get in on the opponent. Another possibility is Lylat Cruise.

I love going to Lylat on these guys. Tilting screws with some of the projectiles pretty badly.

Also I hadn't thought of RAR nair. Might have to give it a shot.

 

[Berserker.]

What are your opinions on using Buster against bruisers? It seems to put Shulk on an even footing, damage-wise, but it also makes their hits all the more devastating... Roy in particular seems to just kill Shulk (and 75% of the cast) at stupid early percents. Jump does wonders when edgeguarding him, but it also is crazy risky with Shulk's weight-reduction.

I like buster against anyone (except Falcon, ZSS, and Meta Knight where I'd go full speed/jump) which is no secret to anyone. It's fine against hard hitters for as long as you're on-point with your spacing ability. If you're fine with the art, then go ahead.

Also, jump art does not reduce Shulk's weight. Just increases the damage he takes by 22%.

 

[Masonomace]

My attendance here is lacking. . .

Have any of you had issues with Air Slash getting stuck underneath Dreamland? It happened to me multiple times yesterday and it was just ughhhh. If you line up Air Slash even slightly wrong while recovering from below the ledge, you get stuck under the stage. I'm starting to think Dreamland might be bad for Shulk because of that. What do you guys think?

Getting pineappled is no fun especially when I'm scrooging on that stage with Jump art and mess it up. My advice in regular instances you're recovering from below is reverse Air Slash by either turning it around or B Reversing so that you physically move away from the stage if you feel you're too close.

---
About Buffering Art Deactivation, D-tilt is a really swell move to utilize in that time frame. A simple on-hit connection in Speed art can lead to neat follow-ups. Having Speed art running speed and then Vanilla Full Hopping F-air to Air Slash is cool, and drift backwards if you think you're drifting too far offstage with a commiting AS.

And about using MALLC offensively, defensively, or for pure utility / safety, it'll vary on your choice because acting out of the art's activation quickly before you let Shulk try to make his unique pose reduces the amount of intangibility. So if you want a safe defensive art activation via MALLC, just wait and let Shulk do his thing. I'm not saying you need to let Shulk yell out the art, but about a bit of time before that is around the ending of the intangibility window. Otherwise, go ham against a character with a relatively poor frame data spread in any area, like their OoS options.

 

[Berserker.]

So RAR N-air should be a thing by now when it comes to the neutral imo. It's easier to land n-air > b-air which kills relatively early with jump art (or speed art, maybe), it also comes out earlier, and it still has amazing range. You can still do the typical n-air > f-air > f-air combos in jump art anyway even when RAR'd. There's practically not much of a difference in terms of utility except it comes out faster which is really important btw. Wanna see some opinions on RAR n-air because I've been thinking about using it more especially since I use it instead of f-air for following up after speed or jump d-throw.

It's also the easiest to land among his ledge trapping options and it's pretty much his best ledge trapping tool because of dat lingering hitbox which covers every option consistently well. Just don't fast fall with it or you'll interrupt the lingering hitbox

Edit: Might make a huge overhaul on Shulk's neutral/advantage/disadvantage. Lol. Just throwing that out here

 

[erico9001]

So RAR N-air should be a thing by now when it comes to the neutral imo. It's easier to land n-air > b-air which kills relatively early with jump art (or speed art, maybe), it also comes out earlier, and it still has amazing range. You can still do the typical n-air > f-air > f-air combos in jump art anyway even when RAR'd. There's practically not much of a difference in terms of utility except it comes out faster which is really important btw. Wanna see some opinions on RAR n-air because I've been thinking about using it more especially since I use it instead of f-air for following up after speed or jump d-throw.

It's also the easiest to land among his ledge trapping options and it's pretty much his best ledge trapping tool because of dat lingering hitbox which covers every option consistently well. Just don't fast fall with it or you'll interrupt the lingering hitbox

Edit: Might make a huge overhaul on Shulk's neutral/advantage/disadvantage. Lol. Just throwing that out here

Mace got me into using RAR Nair. It's a very good option for a huge assortment of things. I'm still trying to get in the habit of doing it more often.

 

[Masonomace]

I RAR N-air a bit too much in Speed due to the pivoted nature being awesome. RAR N-air is also swell in Jump too especially when you include the art's landing friction from all that drifting speed.

Oh, and I forgot to mention in my last post that using Dtilt and then Buffering Jump's deactivation can get super jump height for a follow-up you thought you may not reach with a Jump art Full Hop aerial. I'm using more and more Dtilt in Neutral with some other ideas thanks to you guys being awesome <3.

 

[Zatchiel]

Vision out of shield (jump OoS + Vision asap). Anybody else a fan of this?

Shielding tends to implore safe-on-shield aggression if the opponent has it. Or maybe more reckless responses if it's a KO they're after. Could be decent at the ledge against players that like to ledgehop an aerial when they see a shield.

 

[Berserker.]

OoS vison seems pretty decent. Probably (or definitely) is really good once you completely download your opponent. It has potential to be one of Shulk's KO tools especially in Smash art. It's basically a free-to-use option against opponents that spam aerials against you

 

[Shulkamania]

Hello, I don't know if this was mentioned yet, but has anyone been working on Shulk's extended dash dance? I feel that this tech can up Shulk's neutral game and give a bit more versatility and allow more mix ups with shield and jump art. I've recently started working on just doing it so I haven't had the chance to experiment with it, but I was wondering if anyone else was messing around with it.

 

[Masonomace]

I'm a fan of OoS Vision. You know those times you're shielding a move like Link's or Toon Link's Forward smash? Ya block the first hit but then OoS Vision the second more powerful hit & boom, neat stock. That's just one example as there's more to apply OoS Vision, but it's not uncommon for Link & Toon Link to just use the first hit, so it depends on your instinctual read.

Extended Dash Dancing aka Dance Trotting I think people call it? That's pretty neat because Speed art's dash sequence goes super far & fast that you can escape from a skirmish & retaliate with a returning dash trot coming back to Dash Attack, running U-smash, running pivot grab, running pivot Ftilt, dashing SH aerial, dashing RAR SH aerial, dashing to Air Slash scoop, etc. Every Monado art can benefit from it through some kind of strategy used for a purpose, even Shield's very small dash sequence can throw people off because they see you dance trot to dash grabbing or roll canceled grab them & they may think, "lol wot?". Idk just an example, & like all these examples, the opportunity varies on how much frames you have to spare for that moment to punish.

Extended Dash Dancing / Dance Trotting after a Monado art activation during our dash or run sequence also works, so in a way, Monado art into Dance Trot would look flashy & Melee-esque.

 

[ExcaliburGuy]

Does anyone else find Shulk's extended dash dance hard to pull off? I can do it consistently with Roy, Marth, Falcon, and Mac, but I cannot consistently do it with Shulk for whatever reason. Shulk's foxtrot timing seems really weird to me for whatever reason.

When I have gotten Shulk's EDD in Speed mode, I noticed that the EDD length is around half the length of FD. Probably. That almost seems too long of a dash dance, if that's even possible. So it got me thinking, Shulk's walk speed in Speed Art is as fast as his vanilla run speed, right? Why not dash dance while walking. It's a WALK DANCE! Plus, you can perform any action out of a walk. I haven't tested this out yet, but it seems like a viable stratagem to me.

 

[Shulkamania]

I'm not sure if I'm doing it correctly so I'll post this video of myself trying the extended dash dancing as speed and vanilla Shulk so we can compare. Also I'm confused by what you mean when you say walk dance. Do you mean simply walking and turning around?

 

[Masonomace]

I'm not sure if I'm doing it correctly so I'll post this video of myself trying the extended dash dancing as speed and vanilla Shulk so we can compare. Also I'm confused by what you mean when you say walk dance. Do you mean simply walking and turning around?

Hold up. I'll upload a video of EDD / Dance Trotting for ya.

 

[Linkmario00]

I'm not sure if I'm doing it correctly so I'll post this video of myself trying the extended dash dancing as speed and vanilla Shulk so we can compare. Also I'm confused by what you mean when you say walk dance. Do you mean simply walking and turning around?

Nope, you're doing it wrong. You have to do the inputs much faster so that you don't get the slide animation at the end.I would record a video myself but I can't.

 

[Masonomace]

@ Shulkamania Here ya go. Is this what you're trying to do?:
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzSFBhZb5VQ
Video:

 

[erico9001]

Somehow, I ended up using a mobility based Shulk... speed/jump with some shield. Buster only shows up every once in a while. I used to love Buster so much! Oh, and I still go to Smash when it's time to move in for the kill, but only for when I have the positional advantage.

WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME?!

It has been working well, though

 

[Masonomace]

Yo I feel you. Jump & Speed feel great when you're out-maneuvering other sword-fighter characters, & even better when you fight slow characters.

You can really feel the pressure you're bringing when they're terrified of Monado Jump. Other times, Monado Smash is scary when you're gimping people off-stage at early percentages especially against the telegraphed recoveries.

Also, F-air clipping near the ledge is been helping me a lot recently it seems. I don't even have to commit going off-stage when I can just Monado Jump Short Hop, F-air, then Fast Fall landing with the hitbox's ending near Shulk's left foot. The last time I was doing this in a local tournament, It felt like I got it 5 times in a row.

EDIT: I have a sneaky video project coming soon. Prepare yourselves for a dirty Jump art strategy that you guys may or may not have been doing or known of.

 

[Berserker.]

I use mobility-based Shulk depending on certain match-ups and same can be said for buster-based Shulk. I find myself going for mobility more often against characters with great spacing ability like Peach, Ike, Marth, etc. Characters that are extremely reliant on projectiles like Link, TL, Mega Man, Duck Hunt, etc. I'd go for buster art (with some speed art usage) for whatever reason. It's just my personal preference. Aggressive players imo are easier to deal with using buster art with some shield art utility but those players that are more patient with their approaches should be dealt with using speed and jump art. There are times though wherein I'd treat buster art like smash art in match-ups for the sake of optimizing my opportunities but it's hard to pull off well tbh

 

[Linkmario00]

Personally I prefer a mix of Jump and Buster instead of Speed and Buster against campers. I feel like Jump gives us much more air and stage control while speed would always be pressured by grounded projectiles. Also I find empty hop with Jump easier to land and with MABD in play that's a great opportunity for going in Buster which is fundamental against campers. Plus that Upthrow - > Air slash which is so absurdly amazing to me for some reasons

 

[Plain Yogurt]

So I missed the memo that Monado activations also cancel Shulk's dash and not just his run. And it's WAY easier than standard dash trotting. And activations have invincibility. And Speed and Shield have different dash lengths.

One of y'all tell me when this character stops being so cool. Mixups for days.

 

[Masonomace]

It felt like there was a misconception that players would say MADC when Shulk's running somewhere. That would be called MARC, Monado Art Run Cancel. We can cancel the dash sequence with the art's activation too. The intangibility is awesome as I keep getting reminded of it's awesomeness just running toward a dangerous move & just avoiding it altogether. Then punishing with U-smash or D-smash at close proximity when ya cycled to Smash art is just too radical.

One of y'all tell me when this character stops being so cool. Mixups for days.

I'm helping Xavix with the footstool into Air Slash project for the Shulk section, & Shulk is getting much cooler in my eyes. It's possible to be Speed Shulk Full Hopping into tapped footstool jump into Air Slash on some characters, while it's also possible to hit Jigglypuff with Footstool into Air Slash with the Jump art, even when we're at 100% which is plenty of Rage.

 

[erico9001]

I feel like I say this a lot, but it's true. People get really impatient and sloppy when you dance around them with Monado Jump, especially when you're at kill percent. If you combine Shield and Jump at kill percents, they will feel they're never going to be able to kill you if they don't 'do something!' They do something reckless. That's why they end up taking a lot of damage into their next stock. Though, to be fair to them, they're probably right about that.

 

[gridatttack]

Woah, you can cancel dash too? Interesting, can be used to troll around.

And yeah, 'dancing' around with jump really gets people off. The key is to be unpredictable, as they might as well know how you 'dance' and then intercept you.

BTW, what do you guys think of using smash art when you are over 100% percent? Using it on last stock could be an all or nothing, but I haven't used smash when I'm at last stock, but I have been using it when I have the stock lead to steal the KO.

People thinks you are committing suicide by activating smash art at higher percents, so they might as well try to come and hit you with any decent move to KO you. You can then anticipate this by playing more defensively, and trying to sneak a kill move to do the trick.
Just used it a against a Sheik on FD. I was at 143% and she was at 80+% something. I managed to land a angled up F smash from the right part of the stage, and the Sheik was on my left and it went all over the stage and then to the left blast line for the KO.

Though, perhaps doing this is too risky. Dunno.

 

[Masonomace]

BTW, what do you guys think of using smash art when you are over 100% percent? Using it on last stock could be an all or nothing, but I haven't used smash when I'm at last stock, but I have been using it when I have the stock lead to steal the KO.

People thinks you are committing suicide by activating smash art at higher percents, so they might as well try to come and hit you with any decent move to KO you. You can then anticipate this by playing more defensively, and trying to sneak a kill move to do the trick.
Just used it a against a Sheik on FD. I was at 143% and she was at 80+% something. I managed to land a angled up F smash from the right part of the stage, and the Sheik was on my left and it went all over the stage and then to the left blast line for the KO.

Though, perhaps doing this is too risky. Dunno.

It's definitely worth trying when you have the stock lead, because in that scenario, think about the mental warfare you induce on the opponent. They're on their last stock having to play it safe, & suddenly they just see the Smash art activated regardless of who's in the Advantage or the Disadvantage. Either way, their nerves are sure to be breaking. They mess up, & practically any attack can kill. Even Jab Combo if it's the right character at the right spot. You have nothing to lose except two stocks, while they have to care for their only stock at a dangerous percentage. And even if they kill you, they still have to deal with whatever you have in store for them on your fresh stock.

And it only gets much better with custom arts. At a local I played allowing customs, I put on Decisive Smash when my percent was +100% while both my opponent & I were on our last stock. I'm sure someone watching thought I was crazy because the art's drawbacks hurt even more since it can't be deactivated, but when you get the opportunity via a read of any sort, you can seal their future when they're at a mid-high percentage like 70%.. Having at least 100% means you have about half or more than half Rage effect accumulated, & with a Decisive Smash art the knockback boost becomes HUGE.

 

[ZcK]

Well Smash I m using it after a perfect MALLC, more often than not is a a free hit if your opponent wants to punish you after droping shield and you are well spaced . And when in high percentages it is certainly more useful when your opponent is at the ledge since shulk can cover most options and probably kill. Otherwise if nothing works I get rid of it as soon as possible just in case. Also I m using Smash usually at stupid percentages like 70 or so because you can take a risk and not die and if the risk works they do.

Also short hop Jump F air to backslash is a combo at 90 or so percentages.

 

[Zatchiel]

Though, perhaps doing this is too risky. Dunno.

It's a double-edged sword. Since you're above 100%, you have significant rage to work with as well. Coupled with Smash art. Knockback increase plus knockback increase.

In exchange, you are basically Jigglypuff, and at kill percent.

Play safe, but confident. The soonest second thought should warrant deactivating the art for another one, or even just vanilla.

 

[Berserker.]

re: 100%+ with smash art

It depends. At that point, it's dependent on what your opponent's percentage is. If the opponent is at maybe ~95%+, then attacks like u-tilt, f-tilt or b-air will be enough to kill, and also the three mentioned options are safe KO options for Shulk. If it's below the said percentage, then you're going to need to land some sort of read with a smash attack which is a high risk. I think going into Smash art is already risky by itself but I basically look at it this way: Is the opponent at KO percent too? Am I at a positional advantage? If the answer is yes for both then I'd go for Smash art despite the risk.

So, it is risky but sometimes, the risk is worth it when your opponent is at kill percent too. One good u-tilt/f-tilt/b-air or air slash may seal the deal. Just play it safe, like what Zatch said

 

[Berserker.]

So, you guys want to talk about how godlike f-smash is for punishing whiffed aerials and chasing landing attempts? Or maybe talk about how godlike reverse air slashing is against low recovering attempts?

That reminds me, I remember talking about reverse air slashing for edgeguarding back in the 3DS days. Not sure how we forgot about it later on or even bring it up that much but I feel that we should talk about it more often. Btw, I'm talking about dropping from the ledge > reverse air slashing. Not like, reverse air slashing near the edge or anything like that. Air slash kills ridiculously early off the edge because of its KBG which is more incentive for using air slash, especially with Smash art. As for f-smash, I've been landing it a lot lately. There are those moments where your opponent mis-spaces or whiffs an aerial out of no where which is like, a free f-smash. I'd bring up u-tilt for that but u-tilt should only be a thing when the opponent is above you. Its horizontal range is too lackluster so it's kinda unreliable unless the opponent is within its zone

I might go in depth with Shulk's land chasing options because he has godlike options (ex: f-smash) for those scenarios but I'll deal with that sooner or later

Edit: By the way, I haven't played Smash 4 for quite a while so I won't be posting a lot of productive things or anything. My b

 

[Locke 06]

What characters does reverse airslash edge guarding actually work for? Because you're running the risk of a stage spike.

Example of characters I don't see it working for:

 

[Zatchiel]

reverse airslash edge guarding

Don't believe I've heard of that before. I can't tell if you're referring to just edge guarding with AS, or you meant something different.

If it's the first one, Air Slash edgeguarding is effective against every character. You're either looking to catch an airdodge or another recovery option.

If you meant something else, I'll ask for you to clarify.

 

[Locke 06]

Don't believe I've heard of that before. I can't tell if you're referring to just edge guarding with AS, or you meant something different.

If it's the first one, Air Slash edgeguarding is effective against every character. You're either looking to catch an airdodge or another recovery option.

If you meant something else, I'll ask for you to clarify.

Or maybe talk about how godlike reverse air slashing is against low recovering attempts?

That reminds me, I remember talking about reverse air slashing for edgeguarding back in the 3DS days. Not sure how we forgot about it later on or even bring it up that much but I feel that we should talk about it more often. Btw, I'm talking about dropping from the ledge > reverse air slashing. Not like, reverse air slashing near the edge or anything like that. Air slash kills ridiculously early off the edge because of its KBG which is more incentive for using air slash, especially with Smash art.

Basically, I see it as catching characters either in their up-B or needing to up-B trying to recover low.

 

[Zatchiel]

Basically, I see it as catching characters either in their up-B or needing to up-B trying to recover low.

So the first one.

With Air Slash's great range, you rarely run the risk of being stage spiked if you're the aggressor. Air Slash tends to put you over the ledge while you're edgeguarding with it, but it can never hurt to press shield in case you have to tech.

Air Slash is one of the greatest edgeguarding tools in the game, I believe. Few characters can easily work around it and recover at the same time.

 

[Masonomace]

RAS is optional unless you started from grabbing the ledge & ledge-drop from it. A Monado art activation can shift Shulk's direction to the opposite from either a Turnaround or a B-Reverse. Whichever is fine. We could also time the Monado art activation in this way:

1. Run towards the ledge until you're right at the very end of the ledge. You'll either be teetering or close enough.
2. Cycle to a Monado art (let's say it's Jump) & immediately edge-hog / grab ledge by running off.
3. Tap away from the ledge or tap down to fast fall as soon as you're able to & hold towards the opposite direction.
4. Profit. Turnaround or B-Reverse is the result depending on your timing hitting the joystick.

With that step-by-step process, you don't need to RAS & you also juggle a Jump art in the mix. You either tap away to get a regular ledge-drop or if you need to drop lower, then hold down or diagonal down+right or left to fast fall while getting the Turnaround or B-Reverse in the same moment.

But enough of the alternatives. Fast fall ledge-dropping > RAS or regular AS if you're already facing towards the blastzone is really good. I understand why Shulk players don't prefer AAS because the second hit dips low, preventing Shulk from using a good option that's literally ledge-guarding the entire wall / surface of the stage including the ledge itself. Jump Shulk's edge-guarding RAS / AS is so good because accumulating enough Rage effect & connecting the sweetspot 6% first hit practically hits every character with the second hit that possesses good KBG. Even featherweight characters like Jigglypuff get launched high enough but not too high, which allows the second hit to connect sealing a stock early. When it comes to heavier characters or characters that just have huge gravity / fall speed, Vanilla AS does fine, or a Speed AS or Shield AS if you want.

 

[Berserker.]

I remember FOcast talking about ledge-dropping to SH f-air back on the stage with MALLC. Basically, prepare an art then ledge drop than f-air back onto the stage then cancel the landing lag via monado art activation. I've been messing around with this from time to time when I remember that Shulk can actually do this. Like, it's a good option from getting up from the ledge but if the opponent is close to you while you execute this, you're vulnerable to getting shield grabbed. If they're relatively far from you such that you manage to tip f-air on them (or their shield), it's safer but there's still a chance you'll get punished by a dash to shield grab BUT then again, you use f-air from a really short height from the ground such that you may land early enough to cancel the landing lag

I guess this could possibly apply for MALLC f-air in general but then again, the chances of it being punished should make you cautious about using it. If I were you guys, I'd try out MALLC n-air to go back on stage instead. Tipper on shield is safe and you have more potential follow ups if you manage to land a hit with n-air

Thoughts on this?

 

[Zatchiel]

Thoughts on this?

Very good mix up, but mallc aerials are still susceptible to approaching shieldgrab. Mix up with your other ledge options frequently, and don't forget mallc airdodge.

Basically, prepare an art then ledge drop than f-air back onto the stage then cancel the landing lag via monado art activation.

You mean ledge jump, right? There's no way to prepare an art while grabbing it, and preparing it before grabbing ledge means no mallc afterward (not unless you're running Decisive Arts, maybe).

 

[Berserker.]

You mean ledge jump, right? There's no way to prepare an art while grabbing it, and preparing it before grabbing ledge means no mallc afterward (not unless you're running Decisive Arts, maybe).

Whoops :<

I meant, grab the ledge > drop from the ledge > prepare an art > SH aerial back on stage > cancel landing lag. You have to be fast though but it isn't that hard to execute tbh

(Edit: I was sleepy while posting this, please understand lol)

 

[Masonomace]

That's only possible with Decisive arts though. You can't cancel the aerial's landing via art activation because there's not enough time to have an art cycled to while grabbing ledge then drop from ledge to doublejump onto the stage with a regular art.

Or are we talking about dropping from ledge then immediately cycling to an art, followed by immediately using doublejump + aerial or airdodge and fast fall if necessary?

 

[Berserker.]

Or are we talking about dropping from ledge then immediately cycling to an art, followed by immediately using doublejump + aerial or airdodge and fast fall if necessary?

Thanks for pointing out that correction x_x'

 

[Masonomace]

Doing a ledge-drop > art cycle > doublejump aerial / airdodge is nifty for sure. F-air for me is usually the 90% used option if you're contesting someone which might not be the best idea, but the MALLC ofc makes you less worried. Zatch bringing up airdodge is also important in combination with a defensive art activation by utilizing the art's intangibility window if you let Shulk start to make the pose. Unless you truly feel pressured in that spot, perhaps that art cycle to Speed gets you the urge to run out of trouble.

Theorycrafting for a split moment, but how cool would of it been if Jump arts reduced the jumpsquat frame animation from 5 frames to like, 3 frames? Jumping in the air would be slightly better at the very least & it would kind of make Shulk jumping less of a commitment. Plus, Jump art already increases our jump force / jump height / the rate we travel rising up from ground to air.

Aside from that, back to this quote:

Like, it's a good option from getting up from the ledge but if the opponent is close to you while you execute this, you're vulnerable to getting shield grabbed. If they're relatively far from you such that you manage to tip f-air on them (or their shield), it's safer but there's still a chance you'll get punished by a dash to shield grab BUT then again, you use f-air from a really short height from the ground such that you may land early enough to cancel the landing lag

I guess this could possibly apply for MALLC f-air in general but then again, the chances of it being punished should make you cautious about using it. If I were you guys, I'd try out MALLC n-air to go back on stage instead. Tipper on shield is safe and you have more potential follow ups if you manage to land a hit with n-air

Thoughts on this?

Something to add about this thought is using a last second art cycle to an immediate D-air or U-air with fast falling in between the first & second hits on hit or on block. So it goes like this step-by-step:

1. Prepare for the moment you're about to pull off. Think about it when you're Air Slash recovering to the ledge.
2. After grabbing ledge, have what art you have in mind to cycle to by either deactivating the current art active, or artless.
3. Drop from ledge preferably with ledge-dropping away from ledge (tap the joystick away, not down) & doublejump asap.
4. While holding your joystick towards the stage whether the opponent is close shielding, have your desired art you'll cycle to.
5. Finish cycling to it & begin the immediate D-air or U-air input depending on your air drifting & positioning. Either aerial varies.
6. MALLC accordingly with the best-case-scenario being both hits of either aerial hitting their shield & you cancel the landing.

If you do it early at a relatively decent height, I suggest D-air because it starts from below & still hits around Shulk. If you did a bit later, you wouldn't really need to fast fall like you would with D-air, so with U-air you probably waited until you drifted to be right above their shield or drifted past them enough to be behind their shield. That's when U-air is best because the hitbox behind U-air is larger than in front of Shulk after all. At this instance, your U-air or D-air will MALLC if successfully done, giving you the 50/50:

• F-tilt their shield whether they drop it or not
• Air Slash if they dropped shield
• D-smash if you think it might shield-poke them
• Dash away or around to pivot grab them from behind
• D-tilt 'cus why not
• Jump away or jump around them for a tomahawk mixup
• Do nothing or hold shield for patience

 

[FOcast]

Something to add about this thought is using a last second art cycle to an immediate D-air or U-air with fast falling in between the first & second hits on hit or on block. So it goes like this step-by-step:

1. Prepare for the moment you're about to pull off. Think about it when you're Air Slash recovering to the ledge.
2. After grabbing ledge, have what art you have in mind to cycle to by either deactivating the current art active, or artless.
3. Drop from ledge preferably with ledge-dropping away from ledge (tap the joystick away, not down) & doublejump asap.
4. While holding your joystick towards the stage whether the opponent is close shielding, have your desired art you'll cycle to.
5. Finish cycling to it & begin the immediate D-air or U-air input depending on your air drifting & positioning. Either aerial varies.
6. MALLC accordingly with the best-case-scenario being both hits of either aerial hitting their shield & you cancel the landing.

I didn't test Dair or Uair when I was working on this, but I like this idea. You haven't exactly specified where you begin art selection in this list, but I found that starting immediately after the ledge drop the double jump worked for me. Essentially, you want to tap away from the ledge and let the stick return to neutral immediately. Input the first art selection special, then jump forward (works MUCH better with Special and Jump set to different fingers - I have Jump on Z), cycling as you rise.

When testing, I could get this consistently only with Jump (where I used fast drop with down instead of back) and speed, but I'm sure others have better mashing than I did several months ago. I'm not at my console now, but I feel like this would only work for situations where the opponent is sitting VERY close to the ledge, where they're likely to be shielding, expecting a getup attack. I wonder if this setup would work for cycling to Buster to MALLC into Dsmash shield poke or Fsmash shield break.