Meta "This is the Monado's Power" - Metagame Discussion

[Berserker.]

So, I met this Shulk today at my locals. I was playing as Sheik, and instead of starting with Speed or Buster like every other Shulk I've faced, he started with Smash. I thought this guy was a total noob when I saw this, but after he proved to be a quite skilled Shulk main, I realized what was going on. With Smash, I could not do the fthrow -> bouncing fish (combo that all Sheiks go for at the start for a free 20%). On the second stock, he knew that since I knew this wasn't an option, he could DI expecting either a fair or an uair. Also, my combo game was limited due to the fact that he fell out of several strings thanks to the increased KB.

He actually ended up winning, and I've no doubt I would have won if he started with Buster or Speed.

I'm sure it is still a dumb idea to do this, but damn if it didn't catch me off guard. Thought I'd share it with you guys regardless of it being a silly gimmick, because I'd never seen it before. He obviously knew the matchup.

It's not that dumb. There are some factors though that make it feel iffy (smash being unsafe at neutral)

Very unique tactic. Never even thought of that idea. Might work better than just facing the music with shield art (decreases damage taken and hit sun taken due to increased weight so basically, Shulk acts out of hit sun muuuuuch faster and can punish Sheik even when he's hit). Thanks for sharing. It's the first time I've heard someone actually attempt this

 

[exnecross]

It's not that dumb. There are some factors though that make it feel iffy (smash being unsafe at neutral)

Very unique tactic. Never even thought of that idea. Might work better than just facing the music with shield art (decreases damage taken and hit sun taken due to increased weight so basically, Shulk acts out of hit sun muuuuuch faster and can punish Sheik even when he's hit). Thanks for sharing. It's the first time I've heard someone actually attempt this

You're welcome. I realize that if I had prior knowledge of what I could do to a Shulk in Smash at 0%-30% at the start of a match, his gimmick wouldn't have been nearly as effective. Smash at the start does limit Sheik's combo game, but at the same time there are alternative combos that, while doing less damage, would work at such low percents due to the KB increase. I did try to compensate, such as going for a falling fair -> bouncing fish earlier than normal, but he still fell out of it. After all, one of the biggest nerfs Sheik could receive would be increased KB on her fair.

So really, more than anything it was my fault for not knowing the changed percentages for comboing, since all of Sheik's combos change depending on % and weight, but I can guarantee you most Sheik mains don't know it either. It's just not something we have prepared for.

 

[Berserker.]

You're welcome. I realize that if I had prior knowledge of what I could do to a Shulk in Smash at 0%-30% at the start of a match, his gimmick wouldn't have been nearly as effective. Smash at the start does limit Sheik's combo game, but at the same time there are alternative combos that, while doing less damage, would work at such low percents due to the KB increase. I did try to compensate, such as going for a falling fair -> bouncing fish earlier than normal, but he still fell out of it. After all, one of the biggest nerfs Sheik could receive would be increased KB on her fair.

So really, more than anything it was my fault for not knowing the changed percentages for comboing, since all of Sheik's combos change depending on % and weight, but I can guarantee you most Sheik mains don't know it either. It's just not something we have prepared for.

Yeah. I guess there's that. At least you know what to do this time. You can probably figure out how to work around this trick so good luck dude and have fun

 

[Berserker.]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...wju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/edit#gid=1995002317
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Owju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/edit#gid=846022423

Courtesy of Lordwilliam1234

Discuss

 

[Linkmario00]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...wju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/edit#gid=1995002317
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Owju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/edit#gid=846022423

Courtesy of Lordwilliam1234

Discuss

It's frame data. It's the absolute worse in the game. What do we have to discuss that we don't already know?

 

[Berserker.]

It's frame data. It's the absolute worse in the game. What do we have to discuss that we don't already know?

I'm talking about the advantage on block, etc. Not the frame speed

 

[Linkmario00]

I'm talking about the advantage on block, etc. Not the frame speed

Didn't noticed that,sorry. My fault. I'll edit this post with my impression later

 

[Zatchiel]

Alright, I was messing around with buffering Monado Art deactivations, and I found some very practical and useful strings. Notice I said strings, though some of these are very close to being true combos, as at their very core most of these use the Speed down throw into forward air. I also have not had the chance to test these against a human opponent. Anyway, all of these strings use down throw and exploit buffered Monado Art deactivations. For now, I'll just call this technique "Monado Art Down Throw Deactivation" or "MADTD".

Excellent info. Buffered art deactivation is one of the best ways to get the most out of grabs, namely when BnB combos aren't guaranteed anymore.

I talked more about this back in April, if you want to give it a read. The strategy is very useful.

I'm talking about the advantage on block, etc. Not the frame speed

It's still pretty terrible. We have ways to lessen the risk when it comes to shield drop, but when it comes to out of shield, even half decent options are a real threat.

Then again, there's only one number listed for each. I don't know what to assume when it comes to which hitboxes are being referred to, like with b-air for instance.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Block advantage is referring to the earliest hitbox you can hit with. I don't main Shulk so I'm not aware of him having weaker hitboxes aside from obvious stuff like D-smash.

 

[kenniky]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...wju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/edit#gid=1995002317
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Owju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/edit#gid=846022423

Courtesy of Lordwilliam1234

Discuss

So nair on decisive or hyper buster is our safest option? With safest meaning having no frame advantage?

That is... sub optimal.

 

[Berserker.]

Man. Bringing up frame data brings out the within you guys

Anyway, it's understandable. Lol

I'll make a lengthy post about the block advantages later. Feeling disoriented atm

 

[Zatchiel]

Block advantage is referring to the earliest hitbox you can hit with. I don't main Shulk so I'm not aware of him having weaker hitboxes aside from obvious stuff like D-smash.

Most of Shulk's attacks that involve the monado blade itself come with two different hitboxes: blade and beam. The hitboxes are either simultaneously active (f-air, f-tilt, etc.) or consecutively active (f-smash, u-air, etc.).

The blade hitbox usually deals more damage than the beam part if it's simultaneously active. Only exception I can think of is n-air, where the beam part is slightly more damaging.

Like, if you were testing with the earliest hitbox active on n-air, to my knowledge there are still two of them. So aside from Shulk's obviously poor safety on shield, the data on your table is still kinda ambiguous as it stands.


Thanks so much for compiling the info, by the way. I'm entirely grateful for what you have so far.

 

[erico9001]

So nair on decisive or hyper buster is our safest option? With safest meaning having no frame advantage?

That is... sub optimal.

Nah. This is just frames. What you're saying would be true if we were glued to our opponent, unable to separate from them. What makes up for this is damage and spacing. Our Hyper Buster Bair is a great example. With frames, and without MALLC, we're at a 6 frames disadvantage. However, Hyper Buster Bair has huge damage which sends the opponent very far away. Additionally, Bair's huge range keeps that much more distance between the opponent and us. When the opponent is sent far away, they do not have an actual advantage, for they can't hit us without moving towards us.

You can also reason that the faster the opponent can get back within range, the more our attacks are unsafe on their shields.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Most of Shulk's attacks that involve the monado blade itself come with two different hitboxes: blade and beam. The hitboxes are either simultaneously active (f-air, f-tilt, etc.) or consecutively active (f-smash, u-air, etc.).

The blade hitbox usually deals more damage than the beam part if it's simultaneously active. Only exception I can think of is n-air, where the beam part is slightly more damaging.

Like, if you were testing with the earliest hitbox active on n-air, to my knowledge there are still two of them. So aside from Shulk's obviously poor safety on shield, the data on your table is still kinda ambiguous as it stands.


Thanks so much for compiling the info, by the way. I'm entirely grateful for what you have so far.

Ah, I see. That makes sense. Yeah, all of the block advantage I recorded is for the blade hitbox then. The beam hitbox being weaker explains my Decisive Buster numbers on D-smash (hitboxes 4 and 5) being less than that of normal Buster though, I hit the beam when I initially recorded that one. The others I hit with the blade.

If you like, I could check the advantage for all of his beam hitboxes. For simultaneous blade and beam hitboxes, that would be f-tilt, d-tilt, d-smash, n-air, f-air, b-air, and back slash, right? (Technically u-air as well but you're not really shielding the beam hitbox on that one).

 

[Masonomace]

If you like, I could check the advantage for all of his beam hitboxes. For simultaneous blade and beam hitboxes, that would be f-tilt, d-tilt, d-smash, n-air, f-air, b-air, and back slash, right? (Technically u-air as well but you're not really shielding the beam hitbox on that one).

The simultaneous blade & beam hitboxes I can think of are: F-tilt, U-tilt to an extent, D-tilt, F-smash's 2nd hit angled up down or straightforward, All 5 hits of D-smash, N-air, F-air, U-air's 2nd hit, D-air's 2nd hit, All 3 hitbox phases (those 3 hitbox phases = Startup, Falling, & Landing) for Back Slash Back Slash Leap & Back Slash Charge, Vision regular & forwarded, Dash Vision regular & forwarded, and Power Vision regular & forwarded.

There are a few moves that don't exactly follow the "blade & beam" rule, & then there's moves that do but they have different consecutive hitboxes like U-tilt & B-air.

-Jab 3's sweetspot starts on Frame 12 - 13 dealing 5.3%, has a 50° angle, & does 60 BKB. Jab 3's sourspot starts on Frame 14 dealing 4.2%, has a 70° angle, & does 70 BKB.

-U-tilt's blade hitbox starts on Frame 11 - 23 dealing 8%, has a 85° angle, does 70 BKB, & 90 KBG. U-tilt's beam hitbox starts on Frame 13 - 23 dealing 7%, has a 108° angle, does 65 BKB, & 85 KBG.

-B-air's blade hitbox starts on Frame 18 - 20 22 dealing 12%, & has the 361° Sakurai Angle. B-air's beam hitbox starts on Frame 21 - 22 dealing 8%, & has the 361° Sakurai Angle.

-I'll just copy pasta quoted frame data for the 1st hit of Air Slash, Advancing Air Slash, & Mighty Air Slash:

1. Air Slash (first hit)
2. Frame 10-11: 6% 100f/140w 78° Slash
3. Frame 10-11: 6% 100f/135w 91° Slash
4. Frame 10-11: 6% 100f/100w 85° Slash
5. Frame 12-14: 5% 100f/80w 86° Slash
6. Frame 12-14: 5% 100f/78w 80° Slash
7. Frame 15-17: 5% 100f/43w 52° Slash
8. Frame 15-17: 5% 100f/43w 70° Slash
9. Max Damage: 6%
10. Enables state transition on real frame 10
11. Enables forward ledge grabs on real frame 10
12. Enables all ledge grabs on real frame 40
13. 
    
14. Advancing Air Slash (first hit)
15. Frame 10-11: 6% 100f/120w 60° Slash
16. Frame 10-11: 6% 100f/100w 60° Slash
17. Frame 10-11: 6% 100f/90w 60° Slash
18. Frame 12-14: 5% 100f/80w 55° Slash
19. Frame 12-14: 5% 100f/78w 55° Slash
20. Frame 15-17: 5% 100f/43w 45° Slash
21. Max Damage: 6%
22. Enables state transition on real frame 10
23. Enables forward ledge grabs on real frame 10
24. Enables all ledge grabs on real frame 40
25. 
    
26. Mighty Air Slash (first hit)
27. Frame 10-11: 9% 100f/140w 78° Slash
28. Frame 10-11: 9% 100f/135w 91° Slash
29. Frame 12-14: 7% 100f/100w 80° Slash
30. Frame 15-15: 7% 100f/80w 52° Slash
31. Max Damage: 9%
32. Enables state transition on real frame 10
33. Enables forward ledge grabs on real frame 10
34. Enables all ledge grabs on real frame 40

About the Air Slash moves, the Jump arts increase the vertical height for both the 1st & 2nd hits but Idk if that means their frame data is affected since the Jump arts also cause the Air Slashes to travel faster.

Sorry for overloading info.

 

[erico9001]

Hey guys, new tech! I'm reposting it here from the tech thread.

Alright, so... I found a new tech! Jump even higher with Monado Jump. Obvious height difference with hyper jump, but still noticeable with regular jump. It builds off of the Monado Art Deactivation Buffering tech I found in January.

No idea what to call this yet...

Here's how to do it. Buffer the deactivation of monado jump or hyper jump into a jump. In the video, I like to do this out of shield, but it can be done with any animation. You'll notice you'll jump with the height and fall speed of regular monado jump. Now, this time, almost immediately after you jump, use an aerial or air dodge. This will cancel the gravity and fall speed which has carried from monado jump, allowing your jump to go higher. Though, make sure that you do not do it too fast, or else you will buffer your aerial or air dodge from the jump squat, and the deactivation of monado jump will not take place.

Additionally, you can use it with your double jump instead. While in Monado Jump, do a rising Fair or Air dodge, and buffer your art deactivation off of those animations. So... press B 3 times at the way end of your Fair or Air Dodge, then double jump and very shortly afterwards use an aerial. You can go really high from this. You can also use the animation from an edge jump.

Uses:
-Step 1) Jump really high
-Step 2) ???
-Step 3) Profit!
-Really high up Uairs/Fairs/Air Slashes
-Probably edgeguarding
-Probably recovery
-Possibly combos
-Getting to higher platforms with just a FH (like, hyper jump can get to the second highest part of the tree on duck hunt, while it usually can't land on any of them)
-Stalling?
-Surprise
-Entertainment
-reaching people who jump really high like yoshi

Finally, you technically can perform the technique without buffering. You press b 2 times before jumping, and 1 time after jumping, before using your aerial or air jump. This is harder, though. I would recommend throwing up your shield and jumping out of it. Who knows, it might be faster to not buffer though.

A good stage to test this out on is Duck Hunt. See what part of the tree you can land on!

There should be more shortly! Right now, I'm really hitting the lab with Shulk. I have a bunch of things written out for me to explore. Other things I've tested so far are:

Q: Multiple buttons using Special Move = super fast monado art changing?
A: Sort of but not really. The disappointing thing about this is in order to use the same input on another button, you must have your finger off of the other button for at least 1 frame. If you input a special with a button while already inputting the special with another button, it will not repeat the action. Additionally, if you go immediately from one input to another, it does not happen. There must be a 1 frame gap between the pressing of the buttons. This prevents things like setting the d-pad to specials and spinning your thumb around it. However, you CAN get pretty fast inputs if you use two fingers, and make sure to take each finger off of the button ASAP. Since you are using two fingers, you don't necessarily need to go very fast with each finger.

Q: So what about the B-stick - setting the right control stick to specials?
A: Well sort of interesting results here. I don't think it is worth sacrificing your smash attack or tilts stick for, but here it is. First, for changing arts with the B-stick, you must press B once before you start using the stick. The B-stick has no way to input a neutral special, so you must do that yourself. Now that you have it pressed, you can change arts by pressing any of the directions. Here are the results from each direction:
---Pressing up: You change arts. If in your shield, you get a tiny, short tilt upwards, which gives insight into how the programmers designed the b-stick in this game.
---Pressing left or right: This further demonstrates how the programmers designed the B-stick. You do a dash for a very short time, while changing your monado art. You can fox trot with this dash, which will change 1 monado art each time you do a dash. You can also use this little dash to do very easy perfect pivots, but your monado arts will unfortunately NOT change while doing so.
--------Left/Right continued: If you go left and right pretty quickly on the right control stick, your dashes cancel out and you just stay in place changing monado arts. You can actually change Monado Arts REALLY fast by doing so.
---Pressing down: If on land, I believe you crouch, which prevents monado arts from changing.
---If in air: When in the air, any of the directions work. Spinning the control stick unfortunately does not work. The fastest way to change arts with the stick is still to go left and right repeatedly.

Q: Any way to use a special move while in monado art activation menu?
A: The only thing mildly interesting I found is when you get your final smash WHILE switching Monado Arts. If you press B, you will do the final smash rather than switching arts. If you press up B or side B, you willnot change arts, but rather do nothing.
Anyways, I've tried seemingly everything with this. Trying both inputs at the same time, trying to manipulate buffering, trying to do things with platforms, quick succession afte each other, things with the B-stick, etc, etc... I don't think it's going to happen.

Q: Palutena has that infinite lightweight glitch. Do we have something like that with Monado Arts?
A: Not that I can see.

Q: Can you B-reverse using monado art activationwhile already in attacks/charging them?
A: No.

Still a lot of things to test. I'm pretty sure I will be back later with some interesting things! I must go somewhere for a little bit, though.

 

[erico9001]

 

[Berserker.]

Not fixing that double post because that video was worth it

Especially with the amazing and fitting music

 

[kenniky]

This looks really neat! Also those are some interesting taunt messages 0_o

 

[gridatttack]

I have to wonder.

How does Shulk back throw and down throw in smash art compare to ness back throw? Which is stronger?

I just happen to have a friend who has ness as his main, and I always hate it when he kills me with back throw.
I would love to get revenge by killing him with a down or back throw in smash art :>

Oh, so thats it. I sometimes noted I jumped way high but I couldn't pinpoint why, as it was in the middle of the battle.
I noted it supposed to work in other arts too. Last time I saw it I was in speed mode.

 

[Rawbinator]

Ness bthrow is still better and it's not really close. It kills from anywhere on stage with high enough %, but Smash Shulk still needs to be pretty close to the edges in my experience

Maybe Rage Hyper Smash could be somewhat close

 

[Linkmario00]

Hyper smash Dthrow is much more powerful than Ness Bthrow man. However, we have a custom thread so I'm stopping here.
Talking about the video...recovery is of course an application for this tech (we can buffer the deactivation during an airdodge right? Or simply an attack). What else can we do except for surprising Upair for the kill if the opponent doesn't know the MU?

 

[Berserker.]

You need to be pretty close to the edge with hyper smash

Ness' b-throw is dumb af

 

[erico9001]

I have to wonder.

How does Shulk back throw and down throw in smash art compare to ness back throw? Which is stronger?

I just happen to have a friend who has ness as his main, and I always hate it when he kills me with back throw.
I would love to get revenge by killing him with a down or back throw in smash art :>



Oh, so thats it. I sometimes noted I jumped way high but I couldn't pinpoint why, as it was in the middle of the battle.
I noted it supposed to work in other arts too. Last time I saw it I was in speed mode.

This will not work in other arts. The reason it works is because fall speed affects jump height. When you buffer the deactivation of monado jump out of a shield into a jump, you still get the Jump jump height. Then, since you are no longer in the art, when you use an aerial or air dodge, the fall speed which Jump has cancels. Thus, you go higher. Monado Jump is the only art which affects fall speed, so it is the only art where this technique would work.

 

[gridatttack]

Yeah, I was mostly thinking using it on the edge, but indeed, Ness B throw can kill from the middle of the stage pretty easily...

This will not work in other arts. The reason it works is because fall speed affects jump height. When you buffer the deactivation of monado jump out of a shield into a jump, you still get the Jump jump height. Then, since you are no longer in the art, when you use an aerial or air dodge, the fall speed which Jump has cancels. Thus, you go higher. Monado Jump is the only art which affects fall speed, so it is the only art where this technique would work.

I see. Perhaps its something else im noting. I only notice it when I am pretty much at the top and wonder how I jumped so high. Whenever I get that, I will save a replay, and will upload it to youtube (more easy since the update that allows it is just around the corner)

 

[Masonomace]

Talking about the video...recovery is of course an application for this tech (we can buffer the deactivation during an airdodge right? Or simply an attack). What else can we do except for surprising Upair for the kill if the opponent doesn't know the MU?

(yes you can buffer it during an airdodge or an aerial. Those two ways are the only ways to do this atm). The trade off for recovery is going to depend on our own judgement as well. Do we take action to buffer Jump's deactivation for our doublejump & use a regular AS, or do we opt not to try this & retain our Jump art using doublejump & AS? Again, judgement. HJump makes this much more useful recovery-wise because the jump height is obviously much greater but I'll stop there.

Airdodge finishes sooner than F-air. So all that remains is choice on whether we want to use F-air for edge-guard breaking protection for our stock, or use Airdodge to avoid the edge-guard we shouldn't contest against & act quicker with a doublejump escape to the heavens. In the hunting scenario, Airdodge is much preferred by performing FH > Airdodge since Airdodge does finish quicker, but it comes down to the moment.

 

[Zatchiel]

Hyper Smash d-throw >>> Ness b-throw

Hyper Smash b-throw is probably near or on par with Ness's b-throw in terms of strength.

Talking about the video...recovery is of course an application for this tech (we can buffer the deactivation during an airdodge right? Or simply an attack). What else can we do except for surprising Upair for the kill if the opponent doesn't know the MU?

MALLC. The airspeed/fallspeed you have afterward is perfect for the landing lag cancel. And the huge jump you get from Jump gives you tons of breathing room to switch to the art you want.

Aside from that, you don't have to go for the cancel. You can just pick another art and use an aerial/airdodge if your attempt at getting to the ground is ever threatened.

 

[gridatttack]

So yeah, Shulk was buffed(?) in the last patch.

Back slash now comes earlier.

Aswell it got a physics change. When used in the air, you start slow until you gradually get more speed.

It feels really different. I wonder if the knockback was changed too? Feels like it was reduced, but im messing around in the new 64 stages, so dunno. It also feels like you go a bit farther.

Perhaps now that is faster I might actually use BS on certain occasions.

 

[WindHero]

Something else I noted while looking at http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/shulk.html ...

SpecialS obviously refers to Side B, which we know. However, it also seems that U-Air got changed somehow. 3 lines removed, 4 added. I think there might be something extra to the first hit, and values were changed on both hits, but i haven't a clue what each column means. I kinda know how to convert hexadecimal to decimal, being a CS major, but I can't do much with the values without knowing what they relate to.

Please let it be a lag reduction...

 

[Berserker.]

Back Slash is usable for ledge trapping and catching rolls. Unlike before, it was waaay too slow for being usable for those situations

 

[gridatttack]

Hmmm, I shouldn't have had updated my 3ds either...

I wonder whats the change in Uair.

Hoping for something positive.

And yeah, backslash now has use somehow, unlike as before lol.
Backslash was my least used attack.

 

[WindHero]

Hmmm, i shouldnt have had updated my 3ds either...

I wonder whats the change in Uair.

Hoping for something positive.

Mine is un-updated, but I don't have anything to cross-reference it with...

At least they didn't slam us with another new character, we're still working on figuring out some of the MUs from the last batch... #controversialopinion

 

[gridatttack]

Hmmm I have to wonder. That page you linked.

It seems to be a dump of the game code.
Does that list there shows all the changes?

If so, then we should look for Uair changes then, as we already know back slash changes.

 

[Berserker.]

U-air has a new hitbox. Not sure about what the data on it is though

 

[WindHero]

Hmmm I have to wonder. That page you linked.

It seems to be a dump of the game code.
Does that list there shows all the changes?

If so, then we should look for Uair changes then, as we already know back slash changes.

The list includes all non-projectile changes, it seems. Indeed, I already noted the extra line of code, and I think you're right about it being a hitbox.

I'm gonna convert all the hex code into decimal to see if that reveals anything, but be aware that such a process could be zetta slow.

 

[Berserker.]

be zetta slow.

[this post will be used to talk about random **** with back slash]

 

[WindHero]

First hit:

-    unk-7075DC5A(0x0,0x0,0x0,0x40a00000,0x64,0x64,0x3c,0x0,0x40b00000,0x0,0x41a00000,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x3f99999a,0x3f800000,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x1,0x2,0x3,0x1,0xa,0x3f,0x0,0xf,0x0,0x1,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x41700000,0x0)
+    unk-7075DC5A(0x0,0x0,0x0,0x40a00000,0x64,0x64,0x50,0x0,0x40c66666,0x0,0x41700000,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x3f99999a,0x3f800000,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x1,0x2,0x3,0x1,0xa,0x3f,0x0,0xf,0x0,0x1,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x41700000,0x0)
+    unk-7075DC5A(0x1,0x0,0x0,0x40a00000,0x60,0x64,0x3c,0x0,0x40c00000,0x0,0x41a00000,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x3f99999a,0x3f800000,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x1,0x2,0x3,0x1,0xa,0x3f,0x0,0xf,0x0,0x1,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x41700000,0x0)

Translated:

- unk-7075DC5A(0,0,0,1084227584,100,100,60,0,1085276160,0,1101004800,0,0,0,1067030938,1065353216,0,0,0,1,2,3,1,10,63,0,15,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1097859072,0)
+ unk-7075DC5A(0,0,0,1084227584,100,100,80,0,1086744166,0,1097859072,0,0,0,1067030938,1065353216,0,0,0,1,2,3,1,10,63,0,15,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1097859072,0)
+ unk-7075DC5A(1,0,0,1084227584,96,100,60,0,1086324736,0,1101004800,0,0,0,1067030938,1065353216,0,0,0,1,2,3,1,10,63,0,15,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1097859072,0)

_____________________________________

Second hit:

- unk-7075DC5A(0x0,0x0,0x0,0x41200000,0x58,0x64,0x0,0x37,0x40b00000,0x0,0x41a00000,0x0,0x19,0x0,0x3f99999a,0x3f800000,0x1,0x1,0x0,0x2,0x3,0x3,0x1,0xa,0x3f,0x0,0xf,0x0,0x1,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x3,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x41700000,0x0)
- unk-7075DC5A(0x1,0x0,0x0,0x40f00000,0x58,0x64,0x0,0x37,0x40600000,0x0,0x42200000,0x0,0x19,0x0,0x3f99999a,0x3f800000,0x1,0x1,0x0,0x2,0x3,0x3,0x1,0xa,0x3f,0x0,0xf,0x0,0x1,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x3,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x41700000,0x0)
+ unk-7075DC5A(0x0,0x0,0x0,0x41200000,0x58,0x64,0x0,0x37,0x40d00000,0x0,0x41a00000,0x0,0x19,0x0,0x3f99999a,0x3f800000,0x1,0x1,0x0,0x2,0x3,0x3,0x1,0xa,0x3f,0x0,0xf,0x0,0x1,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x3,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x41700000,0x0)
+ unk-7075DC5A(0x1,0x0,0x0,0x40f00000,0x58,0x64,0x0,0x37,0x40733333,0x0,0x42200000,0x0,0x19,0x0,0x3f99999a,0x3f800000,0x1,0x1,0x0,0x2,0x3,0x3,0x1,0xa,0x3f,0x0,0xf,0x0,0x1,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x3,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x0,0x41700000,0x0)

Translated:

-    unk-7075DC5A(0,0,0,1092616192,88,100,0,55,1085276160,0,1101004800,0,25,0,1067030938,1065353216,1,1,0,2,3,3,1,10,63,0,15,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,3,0,0,0,0,0,0,1097859072,0)
-    unk-7075DC5A(1,0,0,1089470464,88,100,0,55,1080033280,0,1109393408,0,25,0,1067030938,1065353216,1,1,0,2,3,3,1,10,63,0,15,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,3,0,0,0,0,0,0,1097859072,0)
+    unk-7075DC5A(0,0,0,1092616192,88,100,0,55,1087373312,0,1101004800,0,25,0,1067030938,1065353216,1,1,0,2,3,3,1,10,63,0,15,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,3,0,0,0,0,0,0,1097859072,0)
+    unk-7075DC5A(1,0,0,1089470464,88,100,0,55,1081291571,0,1109393408,0,25,0,1067030938,1065353216,1,1,0,2,3,3,1,10,63,0,15,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,3,0,0,0,0,0,0,1097859072,0)

Eh, still quite a bit of gibberish. The only numbers to change on the second hit are the large ones in the 9th column... whatever they are. The first hit had some smaller numbers change though.

Still....
AN INVERSE MATRIX?!

 

[gridatttack]

An extra hit box? Hmmm interesting. I wonder how it will affect U air.

Also, apparently, dash attack has less cooldown. How true could it be?

Gif:
http://gfycat.com/WelloffSereneDiscus
I dunno as its 3ds and wii u comparison.

 

[Berserker.]

An extra hit box? Hmmm interesting. I wonder how it will affect U air.

Also, apparently, dash attack has less cooldown. How true could it be?

Gif:
http://gfycat.com/WelloffSereneDiscus
I dunno as its 3ds and wii u comparison.

....

Hmmm.... Interesting. I'll quote your post here. Thanks btw

 

[Scarhi]

So with the backslash startup buff, since its damage on shield is so high I thought of something:

Say the opponent is shielding on a platform above Shulk, couldn't we do something like Buster MALLC Uair > Backslash (from underneath them, hitting their shield with backslash's very first hitbox) and break their shield instantly that way? With Uair's shield stun I wonder if they'd have the time to do anything before Backslash hits their shield?

I can't test it right now, though, so I'll do some labbing on it tonight or tomorrow. If it works, it should really help our platform pressuring game since shielding is usually such a strong option against Shulk