Meta "This is the Monado's Power" - Metagame Discussion

[SGJet]

Yeah, the vertical range of u-air is surprisingly longer than I expected

I'm sticking to the B button. I fear that I might accidentally back slash off-stage with L as the special button :<

LOL, I actually did in tournament the other day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62LYob7y5OA
I'm a buster XD

 

[Berserker.]

Not sure about this but I think vanilla f-tilt is possibly relatively safe on shield if tipped but idk. It's really dependent on the character you're up against.

Also, I'm surprised that none of you guys are grinding with perfect pivoting. Considering Shulk's play style, this may have a huge impact on our metagame. Especially with f-tilt because it's kind of easy to whiff due to its range being shorter than d-tilt's. That way, we may at least use f-tilt more often (With PP'ing ofc)

 

[gridatttack]

I like poking people with U air. Though I don't seem to use the first hit much, except when sniping someone with Jump Art and try to get the kill.

The second hit when the beam merges has good range, so I try to hit people with the tip of it, mainly to rack damage and juggle them. Sometimes bluff you are going to do that and then the opponent air dodges, and its somewhat easier to catch them with the first hit for more damage.

 

[ExcaliburGuy]

Jump mode up throw -> quick double jump -> up air seems like a really good option at high percents. I haven't tested this on a human opponent, but if you notice that they airdodge the immediate up air, you could probably follow them with a single full hop, wait for the invincibility frames to end, then up air. Air Slash is also a good mix up instead of up air. If they are jumping to the side after the up throw, you can neutch 'em. Or you could jump a bit forward and throw out a back air, covering a forward and backward jump with its gigantic range. And, this is all conjecture and it might be completely wrong (I don't have any human opponents to play on 3DS right now, and level 9 CPUs cheat), but hey, it's worth a shot.

 

[SGJet]

Not sure about this but I think vanilla f-tilt is possibly relatively safe on shield if tipped but idk. It's really dependent on the character you're up against.

Also, I'm surprised that none of you guys are grinding with perfect pivoting. Considering Shulk's play style, this may have a huge impact on our metagame. Especially with f-tilt because it's kind of easy to whiff due to its range being shorter than d-tilt's. That way, we may at least use f-tilt more often (With PP'ing ofc)

I am trying to grind PPivots but I have to get a new controller to get em 100 percent of the time. The possibilities of PPivot Shulk are endless since his normals have so much range. Just think of PPivoting u-tilt in speed mode. Must be godlike.

 

[Linkmario00]

I am trying to grind PPivots but I have to get a new controller to get em 100 percent of the time. The possibilities of PPivot Shulk are endless since his normals have so much range. Just think of PPivoting u-tilt in speed mode. Must be godlike.

It IS godlike, I use it pretty often in my matches and you can juggle for day with that. The problem is that for some reason I'm only able to get the left PP.

 

[ExcaliburGuy]

It IS godlike, I use it pretty often in my matches and you can juggle for day with that. The problem is that for some reason I'm only able to get the left PP.

Same here. I find that it's a little easier if you tilt the controller up on the left when trying to perfect pivot right.

 

[Zatchiel]

I have another question for everyone: How often do you guys deactivate arts "early?"

For example, I almost always deactivate:
-Shield after getting stage control
-Buster after getting the opponent to mid/late-mid percents (can explain if anyone's wondering)
-Speed after getting stage control, either for better damage output or better edgeguarding
-Smash after getting sent offstage

Jump I only deactivate when I want something else, or when I fall prey to a combo starter and don't want to incur more damage than necessary.

LOL, I actually did in tournament the other day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62LYob7y5OA
I'm a buster XD

Back Slash is so good it'll throw itself out when you least expect it. I still do this a lot when switching arts. It's heartbreaking in tourney sets, but I still have a giggle win or lose.

Jump mode up throw -> quick double jump -> up air seems like a really good option at high percents. I haven't tested this on a human opponent, but if you notice that they airdodge the immediate up air, you could probably follow them with a single full hop, wait for the invincibility frames to end, then up air. Air Slash is also a good mix up instead of up air. If they are jumping to the side after the up throw, you can neutch 'em. Or you could jump a bit forward and throw out a back air, covering a forward and backward jump with its gigantic range. And, this is all conjecture and it might be completely wrong (I don't have any human opponents to play on 3DS right now, and level 9 CPUs cheat), but hey, it's worth a shot.

Agreed completely. At some percents it truly combos into Air Slash; all you have to do is confirm your opponent's DI and Air slash in that direction.

 

[ExcaliburGuy]

I have another question for everyone: How often do you guys deactivate arts "early?"

I usually deactivate Jump at after taking a stock. Speed is better at low percents. I deactivate Speed and Buster at high percents. Shield goes off any time I'm off the ledge, and Smash is out whenever the opponent has the advantage.

 

[kenniky]

I have another question for everyone: How often do you guys deactivate arts "early?"

For example, I almost always deactivate:
-Shield after getting stage control
-Buster after getting the opponent to mid/late-mid percents (can explain if anyone's wondering)
-Speed after getting stage control, either for better damage output or better edgeguarding
-Smash after getting sent offstage

Jump I only deactivate when I want something else, or when I fall prey to a combo starter and don't want to incur more damage than necessary.

-Shield after getting sent off stage
-Buster if the opponent is above 120%
-all arts except Speed/Jump when sent far offstage
-occasionally after getting a kill (on instinct, sometimes not a good idea)
-Smash when I accidentally turn it on

 

[Plain Yogurt]

Well I did some labbing today because darn it Air Slash was driving me nuts.

This has apparently been a universal thing cause I tested it with Mario too and I guess I just never knew before because AS doesn't snap very well, but if your double jump animation ends at a point where you can grab the ledge (for Shulk it's a beat after he makes that second "fwip" noise), it will over-ride your Up-B input and you'll grab the ledge unless you're holding down. The animation will start however, and that fooled me into thinking Shulk had this super weird ledge-snap window on AS. It's also screwed me over in matches where I was trying to punish a ledge trap with AS and I ended buffering a ledge attack instead, so keep that in mind if you want to attack with AS on the way back to the stage.

The actual autosnap on AS takes place on the second slash, as any user of AAS will already know, and as long as you're positioned correctly you'll get a slightly faster snap then if you space only the first slash. AS's lack of invincibility still can make recovering hard despite this though.

Sorry if some of this is old news but this was the first time I actually paid attention to how Shulk's recovery works.

 

[Masonomace]

Well I did some labbing today because darn it Air Slash was driving me nuts.

This has apparently been a universal thing cause I tested it with Mario too and I guess I just never knew before because AS doesn't snap very well, but if your double jump animation ends at a point where you can grab the ledge (for Shulk it's a beat after he makes that second "fwip" noise), it will over-ride your Up-B input and you'll grab the ledge unless you're holding down. The animation will start however, and that fooled me into thinking Shulk had this super weird ledge-snap window on AS. It's also screwed me over in matches where I was trying to punish a ledge trap with AS and I ended buffering a ledge attack instead, so keep that in mind if you want to attack with AS on the way back to the stage.

The actual autosnap on AS takes place on the second slash, as any user of AAS will already know, and as long as you're positioned correctly you'll get a slightly faster snap then if you space only the first slash. AS's lack of invincibility still can make recovering hard despite this though.

Sorry if some of this is old news but this was the first time I actually paid attention to how Shulk's recovery works.

Apologies in advance if I post this & it results in something completely different, but there's a way for Shulk to auto-snap to the ledge with the 1st hit of Air Slash without the startup animation appearing (that pink-ish 3-pronged spike shockwave effect that happens). Perform an aerial & utilize that aerial's FAF allows us to automatically snap to the ledge without any trouble. After a skype user who goes by "Ace" told me about this tactic using F-air, I labbed it out & learned that we could be in Jump Art & do a rising doublejump F-air to swipe at the nearby edge-zoning opponent & then we can mash Air Slash to grab the ledge no problem. It's very nifty. And like I said, this works with all 5 aerials but F-air works the best.

 

[WindHero]

Apologies in advance if I post this & it results in something completely different, but there's a way for Shulk to auto-snap to the ledge with the 1st hit of Air Slash without the startup animation appearing (that pink-ish 3-pronged spike shockwave effect that happens). Perform an aerial & utilize that aerial's FAF allows us to automatically snap to the ledge without any trouble. After a skype user who goes by "Ace" told me about this tactic using F-air, I labbed it out & learned that we could be in Jump Art & do a rising doublejump F-air to swipe at the nearby edge-zoning opponent & then we can mash Air Slash to grab the ledge no problem. It's very nifty. And like I said, this works with all 5 aerials but F-air works the best.

Interesting to see this here, since I actually did this unintentionally a couple times earlier today. I grabbed the ledge right as I was trying to Air Slash, and was thankful the times it did. I would have been toast otherwise.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

@ Masonomace Huh. It's probably a similar property, as there's a period during one's double jump where you can't grab the edge similarly to how you can't grab the edge during an aerial. Good to know there's other methods!

 

[Berserker.]

I have another question for everyone: How often do you guys deactivate arts "early?"

For example, I almost always deactivate:
-Shield after getting stage control
-Buster after getting the opponent to mid/late-mid percents (can explain if anyone's wondering)
-Speed after getting stage control, either for better damage output or better edgeguarding
-Smash after getting sent offstage

Jump I only deactivate when I want something else, or when I fall prey to a combo starter and don't want to incur more damage than necessary.

-Shield when I manage to force the reset to neutral or get pummeled
-Buster when the opponent is either at mid-high or high percentages
-Speed art after gaining stage control
-Smash if I don't land the KO in 5 seconds more or less
-Jump if I **** it up

 

[gridatttack]

I have another question for everyone: How often do you guys deactivate arts "early?"

Hmmm, interesting question. I guess I never pondered that before.

Anyway, I mostly keep speed, jump, and buster if I activate them for all their duration. I suppose I need to learn more on what situations to deactivate them, as I may be faulting now by not deactivating them at the precise moment.

For Shield, mainly when im thrown offstage and I know I wont reach the ledge.

As for smash, when I KO someone, or sometimes when I feel that keeping it up is dangerous, after a failed attemp at a KO.

 

[Peppa]

I couldn't ignore all of your buster love @ Berserker. and I have been doing the debuff speed once I have stage control A LOT more when buster is off cooldown. Its yielding some very great results, I've lost only a few games in like the last week.
and when I do I switch to Yoshi and win anyways x:

 

[Berserker.]

Glad you're doing well

Sometimes, I usually go buster all the way (into smash, or whatever art depending on the situation) because of the early throw combos and some early percentage strings that deal like ~45-56% damage if you manage to get all the hits to connect. Buster vs campers is VERY dependent on whether I decide to start with MALLC or just jump straight into speed art. I mix it up every time because both options work anyway. The only time I feel that buster isn't so useful is against fast fallers that are heavy weights and heavy weights in general, or characters with insane falling speed in general. You're better off with speed -> buster or shield actually, if they don't know what shield is actually capable of doing. Thing with buster against those types of opponents is that they can react quickly out of taking hitsun from buster attacks. I mean, this is actually a good and bad thing. Bad thing because you can get bodied for actually landing a hit with buster art. Good thing because if you use an attack with low end lag like d-tilt or an attack with general good damage like f-tilt or b-air, you can see how they punish your end lag and respond with something like pivot f-tilt/f-smash or pivot grab. Or just shield grab the punish attempt

 

[Goesasu]

Glad you're doing well

Sometimes, I usually go buster all the way (into smash, or whatever art depending on the situation) because of the early throw combos and some early percentage strings that deal like ~45-56% damage if you manage to get all the hits to connect. Buster vs campers is VERY dependent on whether I decide to start with MALLC or just jump straight into speed art. I mix it up every time because both options work anyway. The only time I feel that buster isn't so useful is against fast fallers that are heavy weights and heavy weights in general, or characters with insane falling speed in general. You're better off with speed -> buster or shield actually, if they don't know what shield is actually capable of doing. Thing with buster against those types of opponents is that they can react quickly out of taking hitsun from buster attacks. I mean, this is actually a good and bad thing. Bad thing because you can get bodied for actually landing a hit with buster art. Good thing because if you use an attack with low end lag like d-tilt or an attack with general good damage like f-tilt or b-air, you can see how they punish your end lag and respond with something like pivot f-tilt/f-smash or pivot grab. Or just shield grab the punish attempt

Dbuster doesnt have those issues to my knowledge.

 

[Berserker.]

DBuster doesn't have issues with the hitsun, obviously. It deals more damage than buster art and it still has the same KB decrease value as default buster so it should be that way. DBuster is great though and decisive arts are good in some ways but it's not my cup of tea at the moment

 

[Goesasu]

DBuster doesn't have issues with the hitsun, obviously. It deals more damage than buster art and it still has the same KB decrease value as default buster so it should be that way. DBuster is great though and decisive arts are good in some ways but it's not my cup of tea at the moment

Well i play Darts exclusively so its like we are playing almost different chars. Shulk can be played in so many ways and each one has different advantages and disadvantages.

IMO its impossible to measure shulk in a tier list, especially in a custom on meta where custom arts opens so many doors.

 

[Berserker.]

I'd discourage tier list discussion in the metagame thread or in the Shulk boards in general

So yeah

 

[Goesasu]

I'd discourage tier list discussion in the metagame thread or in the Shulk boards in general

So yeah

Was just an observation not a proposition, probably should have say just "measure".

The point still stands, where buster has a disadvantage Dbuster doesnt. Would this be true to all Darts?
Im tented to say yes, because the only disadvantage should be the inhability to change arts and all the buffs of the arts should be only advantages (more speed in dspeed, more defense and less knockback with shield, more KO power in smash etc...) seems like this becomes more obvious between buster and dbuster (also on Hbuster thats soooooo unsafe on hit it hurts).

 

[Berserker.]

HBuster is unsafe on hit mostly, but I'm sure d-tilt, jab, d-throw, f-throw, and b-throw are safe on hit. HBuster is the most safe on shield though among the three variations due to the insane amount of damage it can dish out, so there's that. I guess

 

[Masonomace]

Disclaimer: TL;DR folks.​

I like poking people with U air. Though I don't seem to use the first hit much, except when sniping someone with Jump Art and try to get the kill.

The second hit when the beam merges has good range, so I try to hit people with the tip of it, mainly to rack damage and juggle them. Sometimes bluff you are going to do that and then the opponent air dodges, and its somewhat easier to catch them with the first hit for more damage.

U-air is definitely my favorite aerial. That whole MVR testing stuff I did opened my eyes to how effective U-air can be for poking range above us & it was clear to me when I had a Speed Art active & Short Hopped U-air to hit a character who was standing on the upper top platform of BF, which is awesome. Jump & Speed Arts improve our drifting speed so it's easy to follow their air movement & like you said, baiting the airdodge to catch them with both hits of U-air can be splendid & continue your aerial juggle of more U-airs or mix it up with U-tilt or N-air.

I have another question for everyone: How often do you guys deactivate arts "early?"

For example, I almost always deactivate:
-Shield after getting stage control
-Buster after getting the opponent to mid/late-mid percents (can explain if anyone's wondering)
-Speed after getting stage control, either for better damage output or better edgeguarding
-Smash after getting sent offstage

Jump I only deactivate when I want something else, or when I fall prey to a combo starter and don't want to incur more damage than necessary.

Good question. I feel this question is so good that it's worthy of being a FAQ in the Q & A Thread even though it's not frequently asked.

Now let's see here. . .when thinking about deactivating an art earlier than we would want, it's usually from a shift from the Neutral to the Advantage or Disadvantage, or something else like a personal choice. Mostly, I feel that we wouldn't willingly stay in the current MArt if it meant more danger to us such as Jump Shulk being juggled by an aerial combo. So while there are examples of each art, it's more important that we also find & watch those opportunities in between moments that we're able to deactivate the art & cycle to a new one in order to prepare for the next moment comfortably. All these moments have to do with hitstun because deactivating & cycling arts during hitstun was & IMHO still is the most vital thing to learn as Shulk using Arts for adaptation, before MALLC came along. So here's some examples of what I mean:

1. Knocked away from the stage center & launched towards the ledge area while taking hitstun. You'll want to quickly react to this moment by first vectoring towards the stage to reduce the knockback, deactivating the current art, & then cycling to the new art you feel that you'll need for the next 16 seconds or so. While you're deactivating & cycling to that new art, make sure to drift away from the opponent's follow-up & focus on fast falling to the ground to tech in place or tech roll away out of to respect to the opponent's stage control they gained from hitting you close to the ledge area. Now, depending on how aggressive & patient the player is, it can be wise to tech roll towards the center stage since they may to try read our missed tech tumbling to the floor & rolling back into their running U-smash or something else. This kind of moment doesn't seem to warrant that much discussion to me since I'll frequently do this in heated matches where I have to adapt quickly every moment, but if others are interested of this matter then I welcome it.
   
   
2. Juggled in the air & continuously pressured there by them either waiting on the ground or giving more chase. This moment varies on what Art is active because it's going to suck being juggled with the Jump art active, or when you're caught in those early throw combos into aerial juggles that not even the Shield art active will help you. But no matter what art is active, it's very common to doublejump away from the juggle as airdodging can be baited out & punished accordingly with more juggling. For this struggling scenario, again, it depends on what the current art is & how you want to react to it. It could be more advantageous to stick with the current art active or to deactivate it & cycle to a new art immediately as you're being thrown, hit by the 1st aerial, or hit by the 2nd aerial. In the case that you commit to staying in an Art during the whole juggling process, I feel that as Vanilla Shulk or Speed Shulk, it's best to DI towards a direction to first keep them guessing, then continue to drift to that direction we're launched towards, and finally we doublejump away from the next aerial if we know it's coming. Jump Shulk has it bad because the art increasing gravity & falling speed causes Shulk to be combo fodder from aerial juggles to the max and you take 22% more damage for it. . .so always ALWAYS think to deactivate Jump as you're getting grabbed & immediately mash B as you're getting thrown to avoid taking more damage than you have to. Unless, you want to take that extra damage to gain Rage early?. . .Shield & Smash arts affect knockback the most, so they can be used to throw our opponent's combo-game off by a little or by a lot depending on your % & their % in case they have enough Rage effect to make the difference. While it's generally a good thing for Shield Shulk to take reduced damage & knockback leading to reduced hitstun, some character's combos out of a throw can't be interrupted by a Frame 7 Vision or Frame 10 Air Slash in time, so for these moments you may want to rely on falling to the ground quickly or deactivate Shield out of your judgement & accordingly doublejump away from the danger to cycle to a new art. Unless it's not that case & their throw has so little knockback & hitstun, then abuse that with some Visions or Air Slashes until you condition them to hold shield after the 1st or 2nd attack . Smash Shulk has an interesting quirk to juggles because the knockback we take increases so that it's either slightly easier, or a lot easier escaping these juggles. However, since the Smash art increases the knockback taken, this also means that we suffer taking more hitstun (I haven't done any testing to know if this that detrimental), & on top of that it could be more bad news if the opponent's Rage is high enough dealing more hitstun to lead into a much higher extended combo that can potentially lead to an unfortunate early stock (I also haven't tested the extremity of this particular matter, but we do know that it's not the most fun to be KO'd early from the ceiling blastzone). So with our best judgement call, know to deactivate the Smash art right before the opponent chases for that hit. In our best interest, NEVER keep the Smash art active & decide to airdodge, that can turn out very badly. . .
   
   
3. Knocked off the stage & launched off-screen while taking hitstun. This moment heavily depends on three things like the other two scenario have required: Proper VI / DI, the judgement call to deactivate & cycle to the new art you want, & the additional movement options such as fast falling and or drifting. The most common scenario is when we are Shield Shulk & launched off-stage, but I'm posting this to tell us that we do not need to immediately deactivate Shield every time we're put off-stage. Yes, Shulk's recovery potential is worsened which includes his drifting air speed & the height of our doublejump, but Air Slash is still the exact same height albeit the delayed drifting movement in between the 1st & 2nd hits of Air Slash is worsened. Recovering as Shield Shulk is still possible, but it requires recovering from a lower point, which is what what do as Shulk anyway. Taking reduced knockback is really something to be reminded of. I should say that recovering as Shield Shulk has actually saved my life more times I can count & it's all thanks to the art (Shield carries me I swear. . .). You ever been meteor smashed? Well, Shield reducing knockback & hitstun allows us to psuedo-meteor cancel & come back with mashing doublejump & Air Slash recovering back to the ledge. It's not enough? Then deactivate Shield right as you're hit downwards & cycle to Jump while mashing doublejump airdodge. The reason for this is because we still techically have Shield's knockback defense upon being hit, so when we deactivate Shield as soon as we're meteor smashed downward, we still retain that knockback reduction as Vanilla Shulk. And this is by no means easy, but at least this way, your doublejump won't be interrupted by Jump activating & you'll recover much easier with a godlike Air Slash comeback. It's also easier to tech upon contact with a lip or wall surface but it could just be me.
   
   Properly VI'ing / DI'ing with the Shield art can be easily done with several decisions because the much reduced knockback taken allows Shulk to live at so much higher percentages than any non-custom characters, even holding down during the attack hitting us can save our butts since it's like a miniature crouch cancel. When we talk about getting launched off-stage, it most likely comes from a move dealing mostly horizontal knockback, so to survive against horizontal knockback, we have some of these choices:

• Vectoring / towards the stage allows maximum stock longevity against moves with strong knockback such as Ganon's Punch & Shulk's Power Vision, but doing so will cause the knockback angle to worsen. Additionally, Vectoring diagonally downwards towards the stage is also helpful for surviving horizontal knockback moves like Fox's D-smash near the ledge whereas Vectoring sideways or diagonallyThis kind of Vectoring isn't recommended for being right near the ledge but it's very effective when at the center stage or from being launched to the opposite side of the screen. Doing this kind of Vectoring makes it much harder if not impossible to recover back from as Shield Shulk unless using Advancing Air Slash, so it's best to be used at early percentages for an easier time recovering low & at much later percentages to very quickly deactivate Shield & cycle to Jump during hitstun.
• Vectoring / towards the stage allows stock longevity in the middle against horizontal knockback & will be used most of the time against the majority of attacks sending us towards the blastline. It won't cause the knockback angle to worsen as much as the diagonally downward choice, but it's doable nonetheless. Doing it this way allows more time to deactivate Shield & cycle to Jump as well as surviving against beefy attacks & it's better done near the ledge in order to alter the knockback angle to launch more towards the corners rather than the diagonal Vectoring directions.
• Vectoring / towards the stage allows the least amount of stock longevity against moves with strong knockback like Shulk's upward angled F-smash. However, this kind of Vectoring is great to use for aligning the angle to be directed to the corners much like Vectoring to the side while also making it the easiest time for Shield Shulk to recover back to the ledge. Yet most of the time from my experiences, it's not as effective as Vectoring sideways. I suppose it gives you more time to deactivate Shield & cycle to Jump, Speed, or anything you want.
• Vectoring is possible, but you have to do it on reaction. If you try Vectoring down too early you'll end up crouching which results in crouch canceling further reducing the knockback even more. The reason you would be able to Vector straight down rather than crouching or putting up shield would be from suffering any sort of lag like say landing lag, so there's that. Overall, Vectoring diagonally downward or Vectoring straight down are better used for pure horizontal knockback moves like Fox or Falco's D-smash, especially when near the ledge. Doing this allows stock longevity even when it looks dire, so always be sure to ready this option of choice when you need it & quickly deactivate Shield to cycle to Jump.

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WHEW. Now, as for particular moments I would find deactivating a certain Art early. . .

• Sometimes, It can be alright choosing not to deactivate Jump upon taking hits at times because doing so means that character's early combo throw damages are moot & they'll have to use other options (I would hope). Plus, Jump can be swell to collect Rage early on for those radical Jump combos of our own. As to when I deactivate Jump early, it's usually when I'm taking combo damage from aerial juggles like everyone's mentioned, but. . .*META INTENSIFIES*
  
  I also deactivate Jump for when I'm launched off-screen as Shield Shulk & I DI towards the corner. I deactivate Shield & cycle to Jump during hitstun, then quickly doublejump toward the stage once hitstun finishes so that my increased doublejump height brings me closer to the center of the stage, so atm I'd practically be above the stage. Then, I fast fall & drift towards the opposite side of the stage & multi-task deactivating Jump early to cycle to Speed & attempt to MALLC for that "safe" landing. The key trick to this tactic is utilizing the air speed & falling speed increase from the Jump even after Jump is deactivated, so while as Vanilla Shulk, make sure to not input anything or change your drifting direction & you'll retain Jump's stats as you're falling. This is one vital reason I deactivate Jump early.
  
  
• When I deactivate Speed early, it's usually at a time that I have no reason to rely on the art for Neutral, the Advantage, or when my early combos off D-throw > F-air & landing N-air > F-air x2 > optional Air Slash will no longer connect, due to the jump height decrease. At that point, I opt for any other art except for Shield because I'm likely either using Vanilla as a momentary stand-in, or Buster for solidifying extra damage following into Smash Art. The only direction Speed can't recover from is being very low, which was probably due to a gimping move to interrupt my drifting air speed or my doublejump I just tried to use. If I'm able to react like a god, then I'l deactivate Speed for Jump & drift airdodge towards the ledge & attempt Air Slashing while delaying the 2nd hit for more distance. Though, it'd probably be pointless to try. . .
  
  
• I gave a lot of reason about deactivating Shield but frankly, I'm a Shield fanatic so I won't normally deactivate Shield unless I'm pushed to my limit. . .I'll just skip to Buster. When I deactivate Buster early, the simple & straightforward reasons are when we've dealt enough damage that they're in the danger zone of being KO'd, or when we simply get outplayed & end up deactivating Buster before wasting anymore time in the art. Using Buster at the Disadvantage doesn't mean it's a bad choice, it just hurts us more if we're not careful enough. Oddly yet understandingly enough, I choose to deactivate Buster when my opponent is just too spot-on with his defensive game, y'know, with perfect shielding moves & reading my attacks to the point he can just outspace me & then shield my moves like they're nothing. That, & if the character's traction is high enough that they could actually punish my spacing out of shield. Basically I drop Buster when I notice their oos game is on-point.
  
  
• Smash art has become mixed feelings with me lately, I guess that's because I've been growing more fond of Decisive Smash in that I have no choice with it. Anyway, I deactivate Smash when I absolutely know that I'm in a dire situation & cannot afford to risk on Smash's reward factor, no matter how good it is. Like I said earlier in my post about getting juggled, deactivating Smash early can or will save your stock if it comes the moment they hunt you with that U-air or any aerial really. As for other times I deactivate Smash early, it's when I face up against another Shulk who cycles to Shield UNLESS I have a bit more or much more stage control that I'd force the Shield art to be deactivated. But let's face it guys, Shield > Smash all day. I had the Decisive Shield art active & I mananged to survive against a Decisive Smash augmented Power Vision. That's ****ing dumb & I love it all. Decisive Shield has even helped me survive against the terror that is Hyper Smash.

That's all I got.

 

[Berserker.]

Jump mode up throw -> quick double jump -> up air

Yeeep. I'm all aboard this throw follow up along with u-throw > air slash in jump art. Amazing **** :O

Regarding n-air vs f-air for contesting aerial approaches. F-air is a faster and longer ranged option so it's usually our go-to option when it comes to scenarios like these. N-air is slower but it has more coverage than f-air. Although f-air has longer horizontal range, n-air goes around Shulk. You can use the lingering hitbox and space it well such that you can beat out the opposing aerial. The best part if you manage to do this is... if you manage to land n-air against an air borne opponent, you can easily follow it up to two f-airs for an early kill. Oh, and that's a true combo so there's no need for air dodge conditioning/baiting. Idk about f-air > f-air > f-air tho if it's true or not or if it's even possible in jump art.

N-air is harder (not impossible at all or anywhere near that) to use though when it comes to stopping aerial approaches but landing it is significantly more rewarding

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

So...how about edgeguarding in Buster? I know that sounds really strange, but hear me out. Earlier today I was playing and I meant to switch to Smash to edgeguard, but I accidentally switched to Buster and didn't have time to deactivate so I was just like yolo??? Since Buster fairs have very little knockback, I was able to keep knocking my opponent away with multiple fairs in a row, and if they tried to double jump out of the fair strings there would be no chance of them recovering (well at least for most characters) since they would get hit and lose their double jump. Does this sound like something plausible or should we just stick to Jump/Smash edgeguarding?

 

[WindHero]

Sounds extremely risky if you ask me. In some cases, maybe with heavy characters, it could work, but unless you have enough time to recover yourself... meh.

 

[Masonomace]

Edge-guarding with Buster isn't that risky unless something goes wrong like say they airdodge to avoid our damage. The aerials swatting people away do less knockback so you ride on the possibility to gimp early. Interestingly enough, a Buster D-air will still meteor like nobody's business & it's a moderate amount of knockback that I feel is higher than say, F-air or B-air. Buster D-air has KO potential because it's still a Meteor Smash. Dealing damage with both hits is around 22.4% but reading an airdodge & only connecting the 2nd hit is still around 15.4%. More than enough damage.

 

[Sonicninja115]

At the very least, edge-guarding with buster would rack up damage as well as possibly gimp them. In fact, it might be more beneficial to use Buster to edge-guard (at least at lower percents)

 

[Berserker.]

Buster art edgeguarding seems interesting. The risks of edgeguarding with buster are basically on par with edgeguarding with vanilla or smash art so the risk isn't anything much tbh. I like the idea of racking up damage and gimping at the same time

D-air with buster art is still a really strong meteor smash btw

 

[Zatchiel]

So...how about edgeguarding in Buster? I know that sounds really strange, but hear me out. Earlier today I was playing and I meant to switch to Smash to edgeguard, but I accidentally switched to Buster and didn't have time to deactivate so I was just like yolo??? Since Buster fairs have very little knockback, I was able to keep knocking my opponent away with multiple fairs in a row, and if they tried to double jump out of the fair strings there would be no chance of them recovering (well at least for most characters) since they would get hit and lose their double jump. Does this sound like something plausible or should we just stick to Jump/Smash edgeguarding?

It actually is a very good idea.

Use Jump or Smash for their knockback, and use Buster for sheer damage. Sweetspot f-air can tack on around 10% every hit and leads into itself by nature.

From a recent tournament. 50% in 4 seconds.

 

[Berserker.]

Will add this to the OP also:

Art synergy

Alriiiiight, so the reason why I summed up the applications that can be taken advantage of with the many effects of the Monado arts is because they all synergize with each other, somehow and basically, it's up to you to get creative. Like for example... You can use smash art to knock the opponent to set-up into jump/buster edgeguarding. Or the classic old-style Shulk play which actually still works: Rack up damage in buster then go into smash for the KO. Bypass camping and head into buster or smash art once you're at mid-range. Get rekt in shield art, punish the opponent out of hitsun, then switch into an art then wreck the opponent as hard as possible. Escape a combo via smash art, then switch into speed art to gain some footing then do whatever afterwards

I'm not gonna list ALL the possible ideas. That's up to you to think of and interpret. You can figure out some neat tricks by just looking at the advantages and disadvantages of each art and seeing what they do then figuring out how to weave each application together into one neat strategy. Make sure you actually try this in an actual match against a good player to see if it's at least situational or practical enough to use and take note of

Jump art

Increased jumping height
- Edgeguarding
- Setting-up for an edgeguarding attempt
- Bypassing projectiles
- Gimping
- Gaining stage control
- COMBOS
- U-throw becomes a good throw, for once

Increased damage taken
- No practical application tbh

Increased air speed
- Escaping juggle situations
- Recovering
- Tech chasing

Increased fall speed
- Safer aerials via FF'ing correctly and spacing correctly

Increased recovery distance
- U-throw > Air slash
- Recovering vertically

Speed art

Increased dash speed
- Bypassing projectiles
- Gaining stage control
- Tech chasing
- Boost pivot grab/f-tilt/f-smash
- Better dash to shield
- Amazing dash grab

Increased walking speed
- Fastest walking speed in the game
- Good for Shulk's grounded mid-range options
- U-tilt juggling is a thing

Decreased damage output
- More potential set-ups and combos due to the lower knockback (directly from decreased damage output)

Decreased jump height
- SH n-airs
- RAR B-airs are easier to aim
- Allows Shulk to be more focused on being grounded

Increased air speed
- Escaping juggle situations
- Recovering horizontally

Shield art

Decreased damage taken
- You take less hitsun so you can act out quickly and punish opponents for hitting or throwing you
- You can laugh at the damage you're taking while in shield art

Increased weight
- You take less hitsun so you can act out quickly and punish opponents for hitting or throwing you
- You're much harder to KO

Increased shield health
- Shield poking is MUCH harder/near impossible against Shulk
- Hiding in shield is pretty much a godlike defensive option

Decreased damage dealt
- Uh

Decreased air speed
- Foes tend to run circles around you so basically, you can slow down the pace of the match by using shield

Decreased ground speed
- Pivot f-tilts are easier to aim/land
- Foes tend to run circles around you so basically, you can slow down the pace of the match by using shield

Decreased jump height
- It's easier to aim with b-air, I guess

Buster art

Increased damage output
- Shield pressure increased (notably tipped n-air, d-tilt, f-tilt, b-air, d-smash, and f-smash)
- Damage output is godlike (whopping +40%)
- Spacing is basically much more rewarded in buster art

Decreased knockback dealt
- More combos and set-ups
- You can keep opponents at mid-range which you want them to remain at
- You can edgeguard with buster, and rack up damage+possibly gimp at the same time!

Increased damage taken
- Meh

Smash art

Increased knockback dealt
- You can KO at earlier percentages (~70%+)
- You can gimp opponents off-stage at surprisingly early percentages (~60%+)
- You can use the knockback to set-up for an edgeguarding attempt
- Kill throws are a thing now

Decreased weight
- You can escape combos using your decreased weight

Decreased damage dealt
- Gross

-------

Anyway, before I end this post, I wanna quickly talk about shield art and our options out of hitsun. If Shulk is hit in mid-air, he can either FF into a grab or jab, or d-tilt or basically any move depending on the end lag of the move used against him, or he can simply use air slash (frame 10, HUGE horizontal range) to punish the opponent.

So yeah

 

[ExcaliburGuy]

Ok, so I finally think I've got perfect pivoting nailed, and needless to say, I definitely see the potential. Speed mode perfect pivot is the stuff of legends.

I've got a question, though. Do you guys think it that I should set the C stick to attacks instead of smashes? Perfect pivot tilts look like they have so much utility, but that sliding fsmash looks so awesome too.

 

[Berserker.]

Ok, so I finally think I've got perfect pivoting nailed, and needless to say, I definitely see the potential. Speed mode perfect pivot is the stuff of legends.

I've got a question, though. Do you guys think it that I should set the C stick to attacks instead of smashes? Perfect pivot tilts look like they have so much utility, but that sliding fsmash looks so awesome too.

Setting c-stick to attack is better

 

[Sonicninja115]

How viable is speed art hip-checking? I have a feeling it can be used as a good mix-up... But I don't know...

 

[Masonomace]

How viable is speed art hip-checking? I have a feeling it can be used as a good mix-up... But I don't know...

It's alright. It varies on the character you hit because some hurt-boxes are smaller than others, so the hip-check would either make Shulk move past them or be stuck in front of them. The better speed arts DSpeed & HSpeed hip-check more easily I feel, but it does depend on the pivot timing.

I've got a question, though. Do you guys think it that I should set the C stick to attacks instead of smashes? Perfect pivot tilts look like they have so much utility, but that sliding fsmash looks so awesome too.

@ Berserker. I think the C-stick question is worthy of being in the Q & A Thread's OP now that ExclaiburGuy mentions it. :^ )

So to answer the question, I think it's preference. For Speed art exclusively, I suppose A-sticking would be better, and for smash stick, F-smash pivoted looks cool & is better done when you get the proper spacing down to be hitting with the very end of 1st hit followed by the very end of the 2nd hit. That's some solid spacing & range calculating right there.

 

[Berserker.]

Shield art against Palutena doesn't do much. Lol. If she does n-air or u-air, everything will still connect. Idk if it's my DI or whatever. Btw, I'm talking about customs Palutena. All shield does is reduce the damage output taken from her ridiculous af throw combos. Also, remember to use counter or air slash when acting out of hitsun in shield

I had a bit of an off-day with speed art. Relegated it to purely dash grabs and nothing else which was seriously wrong on my part. Also, I'm beginning to favor f-air over n-air (but I favor b-air over both aerials) because it comes out faster than n-air (n-air's front hitbox takes long to come out). You need to use n-air once they try to approach or do anything basically... So basically, use it like b-air except it's way faster (obviously) but the range is significantly shorter BUUUT you get more potential reward out of landing n-air (you can follow up f-tilt, f-smash or grab or whatever). I was actually doing well with smash art but only because I only land kill throws with it near the edge. I feel like for now, smash art is basically a fishing rod. You're literally fishing for a grab or read. The first one being a safe option and the latter being risky depending on your weight

 

[Berserker.]

I feel like I'm probably going to use b-air to solve all my problems. Lol

About speed art, dash grab > RAR B-air imo. That's already coming from me, someone who's been fanboying over b-air

Buster f-throw is good for setting up into tilts or f-smash. The knockback angle (45 degrees) sort of forces them land to the ground after being hit by f-throw at low to mid percents anyway, and with buster's low knockback, you can use d-tilt, or f-smash (if you want to risk it), or f-tilt to possibly hit 'em after. D-throw is still a better option though but only at certain percentages. Beyond that, it's probably f-throw that's more worth using imo

 

[WindHero]

Had a very strange fight against a Lucina on FG... Basically, it started with my whiffing and getting punished into a combo. Eventually got a Bair in to put me back on my feet, but then things got weird. Lag ticked up a bit, and we ended up spending about 30 seconds trading complete whiffs. Some back and forth motion, finally I get a KO with a perfectly timed FSmash at the ledge. Lag was bearable, but still noticeable, more whiff trades. Finally caught onto the Lucina's roll-happy nature, and got a solid DSmash punish in there, putting things back in my court. I was up around 60%, but still went into Buster, allowing me to get Lucina up to about 90% while I ratcheted up to 130%. So I put on Shield, and find that Lucina wasn't sure how to tackle me in shield. I knock her off the stage, she ledge-grabs, and pulls herself up with a Counter... which I just barely stalled out by charging a DSmash, KOing her rather than me.