Meta "This is the Monado's Power" - Metagame Discussion

[AlvisCPU]

I know you can, but I can't ever seem to edit in a reply unless I started with a reply. When I choose edit, the reply option can't be selected and when I choose reply it makes a new post. I probably just don't know how to do it.

And U-Smash has an excellent horizontal hitbox for an U-Smash. Its basically Lucas' with less power and cooldown. And thanks to Speed, Shulk can utilize it extremely well in a slide. Slide smash USmash is my favorite grounded Shulk approach because it connects so well unless the opponent manages to roll out of the way.

If we're talking skinny U-Smash hitboxes, try Samus or Pit lol.

Click Reply so it shows up in the box, then Cut/Copy it to clipboard and Paste into the edit

I'm not such a fan of uSmash, but maybe I just threw it out and missed to much, so I just never use it anymore. Last time I played I got some really great KOs with it, though. Not just great for getups, but also rolls.

 

[Ultinarok]

Click Reply so it shows up in the box, then Cut/Copy it to clipboard and Paste into the edit

I'm not such a fan of uSmash, but maybe I just threw it out and missed to much, so I just never use it anymore. Last time I played I got some really great KOs with it, though. Not just great for getups, but also rolls.

Ah thanks. The biggest thing working in U-Smash favor is that its not particular slow (for Shulk, its frame data is decent), has a very favorable hitbox, nearly always connects both hits, doing impressive damage (once in a blue moon the opponent falls out of it, but it barely happens) and has the highest knockback of any of Shulk's moves if I'm correct. It is slightly stronger than both other smashes and has more average reach than both of them since it hits on all sides of Shulk. On a good read, a slide smash can kill mediums at 110%, and even earlier in Smash.

Of course its punishable, but all smash attacks are for the most part, and its reach makes up for it. Unless they air dodge in time, the beam will ALWAYS win against an aerial opponent. Literally nothing except maybe Mega Man's hard knuckle has a chance. I've beaten out aerial Wizard's Foot with U-Smash before. Its basically a safer Lucas U-smash with a bit less horizontal reach, a bit more vertical, lower power, and a lot less cooldown. That's a winning recipe in my book. And because Shulk crouches when he does it, the disjoint is even more pronounced. Its possibly one of my favorite Shulk attacks (although there are definitely more useful ones).

 

[kenniky]

I know you can, but I can't ever seem to edit in a reply unless I started with a reply. When I choose edit, the reply option can't be selected and when I choose reply it makes a new post. I probably just don't know how to do it.

And U-Smash has an excellent horizontal hitbox for an U-Smash. Its basically Lucas' with less power and cooldown. And thanks to Speed, Shulk can utilize it extremely well in a slide. Slide smash USmash is my favorite grounded Shulk approach because it connects so well unless the opponent manages to roll out of the way.

If we're talking skinny U-Smash hitboxes, try Samus or Pit lol.

Samus and Pit's usmashes are decent antiairs, they just don't really hit on the ground.

Wii Fit Trainer's, though...

 

[erico9001]

Something I want to see Shulks do more often is recognize that their jab's frame data IS poor before committing to it as a response to their zones being broken. Then, they know that they aren't going to beat (character)'s frame data with a jab, and instead try for a different option. In that situation, some other options are shielding (frame 1), spot dodging (frame 3 for Shulk), or rolling (frame 4 for Shulk). Running away (in monado speed) or jumping (especially monado jump) might also be options, so I'm curious about testing just how good they are. Might be a little difficult to test, but I think it's doable.

I got the frame data for rolling and such from this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/roll-air-dodge-frame-data.401323/

 

[☆Jazz☆]

*warps in* *looks around*.....nice

 

[erico9001]

I was going to post this in response to Masonomace in the frame data thread, but it's more suitable here.

Falling Speed is good & bad-ish. Actually, it's because of the falling speed increase / gravity increase(?) that Jump Shulk resists vertical knockback a bit better than Vanilla Shulk can, to some extent. Although the amount of damage taken versus the falling speed increase clash against each other so it can result in a stalemate I feel.

Falling Speed is a value that increases as you use the stronger Jump Arts Decisive Jump & Hyper Jump, which is why Jump Shulk doesn't fall faster than Decisive Jump Shulk.

Eh. . .I think Fall speed is a good thing to have despite those moments you get juggled / combo'd.

Fall speed makes you more menacing in the air, because you can more quickly swoop down with an attack to hit your opponent. Like, being below a faster faller is more menacing than being below a slow faller, because if you use your U-tilt or other anti-aerial at the wrong time they can be down on the ground faster to punish it. Another positive aspect of faster falling is it allows you to get to low edgeguards faster, giving the opponent less time to react or putting you at the position you want to be sooner. Defensively, the fall speed does affect your kill percents. Of course, you do stay in vertical combos longer.

I just realized that must be why I do not use Jump very often against like Captain Falcon. After thought, I wonder if that is really a good enough reason. Monado Jump's jump height might be good enough so that I can get out of those combos with a jump, a more safe option than an air dodge (since air dodges can be read). Maybe I should experiment with it for that MU.

 

[AlvisCPU]

I think I remember erico9001 working out some general advice on timing for MALLC. I'm hoping to get learning now - is that somewhere in the depths of this thread?

 

[Masonomace]

About USmash, the move is great for reading the ledge getup option, somehow. During some ladder matches I pulled off a few USmash punishes for their ledge option but it can vary since not every character has the same ledge-climb frame data (For example: Pac-Man & Shulk simultaneously ledge-climbing, Pac-Man will put up shield before Shulk).

There are some heads ups we should know about the move in regards to when we should use the 1st hit's grounded knockup into the 2nd hit, & knowing when to use the 1st hit up close to avoid the knockup. Against characters with high falling speeds such as Greninja or perhaps Fox, they can be hit by the 1st hit up close but fall quick enough to the ground to shield the 2nd hit therefore getting an opportunity to punish our USmash KO attempt. As for the knockup effect, a player can hold their control stick away in the opposite direction they're being knocked up to avoid being pierced by the 2nd hit. Idk if USmash's 2nd hitbox is bigger from the front or behind since it's a little weird testing that, but the ground-only knockup effect from the 1st hit is better done from the front so there's that.

What I think: We should use the ground-only knockup disjoint of the 1st hit for the fast falling characters not to mention that using the knockup brings them vertically higher & hit by the 2nd attack is always approved in my book. As for the USmash up close, we could target characters with medium weight & little falling speeds to avoid the possibility of them shielding.

Something I want to see Shulks do more often is recognize that their jab's frame data IS poor before committing to it as a response to their zones being broken. Then, they know that they aren't going to beat (character)'s frame data with a jab, and instead try for a different option. In that situation, some other options are shielding (frame 1), spot dodging (frame 3 for Shulk), or rolling (frame 4 for Shulk). Running away (in monado speed) or jumping (especially monado jump) might also be options, so I'm curious about testing just how good they are. Might be a little difficult to test, but I think it's doable.

I got the frame data for rolling and such from this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/roll-air-dodge-frame-data.401323/

This is kind of why I've gotten accustomed to using Airdodge out of a Short Hop with Shield Art, or putting up shield everytime I approach. Be defensively more safe with what our frame data really shines with: Dodges.

Jump Shulk & Speed Shulk can both Airdodge out of a Short Hop & still be able to jump afterwards, or Air Slash / Vision / etc.. And we know that Speed Shulk can running shield like a boss. As far as Jump Shulk jumping goes, our jumpsquat is 5 frames & we get higher jump ability so that's a plus, & Full Hop Airdodging to GTFO sounds like an awesome plan. Reminds me of Yoshi Doublejumping & Airdodging, just ya know, we don't have Super Armor.
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Honest Question: I was thinking of making a great post in regards to Edge-Slipping True Combos here in the Metagame thread, but I don't think it'd that important? What do you all think of it?

I think I remember erico9001 working out some general advice on timing for MALLC. I'm hoping to get learning now - is that somewhere in the depths of this thread?

Erico9001's Monado Art Landing Lag Canceling Guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjgKgHKChsA

 

[Zatchiel]

So I've been loving full hop f-air instead of short hop f-air during neutral games. The vertical range really does compensate, and you don't have to incur landing lag. I've come to like short hop f-air for mainly landing traps, tech chasing, or comboing.

Full hop f-air in Speed puts you in a perfect position to footstool if a character is waiting below you in shield. FH f-air in Jump can lead into another f-air or edgeguards. There's more than that, but I'll be brief.

F-air is my favorite of Shulk's attacks, mechanically. Paired with MALLC you can get especially crazy with it.

I think I remember erico9001 working out some general advice on timing for MALLC. I'm hoping to get learning now - is that somewhere in the depths of this thread?

I see Mace linked it already, but I wanted to say that erico's video is among the most important pieces in my development as a Shulk player. I hope the video helps all the same for you.

 

[AlvisCPU]

Oh, it's actually in the OP? ... well, that's embarassing...

Time to start making things second-nature.

 

[Berserker.]

@ Ultinarok

I will use red magic to merge your posts. Don't worry

 

[Ultinarok]

Something I want to see Shulks do more often is recognize that their jab's frame data IS poor before committing to it as a response to their zones being broken. Then, they know that they aren't going to beat (character)'s frame data with a jab, and instead try for a different option. In that situation, some other options are shielding (frame 1), spot dodging (frame 3 for Shulk), or rolling (frame 4 for Shulk). Running away (in monado speed) or jumping (especially monado jump) might also be options, so I'm curious about testing just how good they are. Might be a little difficult to test, but I think it's doable.

I got the frame data for rolling and such from this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/roll-air-dodge-frame-data.401323/

Jab is, in my opinion, one of Shulk's worst moves, only behind DA. Its not terrible useful for a jab, and while fast, its subpar range makes it rather unexceptional. I literally only ever use it in Buster as a quick follow-up because it does great damage (17% I believe, I don't watch the numbers as much as the screen) and is fast enough to be used in Buster strings. As a general option, if Shulk's zone is broken, its better to shield, grab, OoS Air Slash, try to jump away (in Jump), use Vision, or roll. People sorely underestimate Shulk's CQB potential. Yes, he struggles more there, but Vision punishes excessive aggro and Shulk has a decent grab and solid throws for playing keep-away. And AS is what, frame 6? That's fast enough to beat most non-jabs up close. He's not doomed unless he's up against Fox or Diddy.

 

[Berserker.]

AS meaning air slash?

That's actually frame 10

 

[Ultinarok]

AS meaning air slash?

That's actually frame 10

Ah, still quick though. I knew it was rather quick. Risky, since it leaves him helpless, but its definitely quick. It will at least beat just about every smash attack and many tilts.

 

[Berserker.]

Ah, still quick though. I knew it was rather quick. Risky, since it leaves him helpless, but its definitely quick. It will at least beat just about every smash attack and many tilts.

It's quick and ranged. Plus it kills in smash art

OoS Smash AS is nuts

I'll post more things later. I need to rest. Lol

 

[Scieric]

AS is an amazing OoS option, but let's not forget his shield grab. It's quick (frame 7), has good damage and kill potential (depending on the Art and throw you choose) and can lead into a plethora of edgeguarding options in Speed, Jump or Buster and can setup in Vanilla. Remember. Shulk is fantastic at edgeguarding as frama data matters the least in that scenario compared to any other one imo. So his main weakness is sort of covered and he has great aerials for the job anyway, so anything that can maximize the amount of time the scenario is great by me, not to mention, it`s his second fastest option. Faster than AS.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

Am I the only one who has trouble with Shulk's grab outside of speed grab shenanigans? It always feels shorter than it should be to me.

I really need to get used to using AS OOS. I always forget it's an option.

 

[Zatchiel]

Am I the only one who has trouble with Shulk's grab outside of speed grab shenanigans? It always feels shorter than it should be to me.

I know what you mean, I've whiffed grabs plenty of times because of that. What I've been working on is resisting the urge to shieldgrab on instinct.

Still, I don't find Shulk's shieldgrab to be very reliable at all against the more experienced players. Maybe that has something to do with it.

I think FF n-air truly sets up grab at certain percents in different arts, but I don't know how to determine that for sure. That's honestly where most of my grabs come from, next to pivot grab and tomahawking.

 

[AlvisCPU]

I also need to get used to Air Slash out-of-shield, so satisfying to land.

As for Shulk's grab, the range is a little underwhelming. I don't know what the frame data is but I'll usually try to shield-grab, or if possible, use it if I predict them doing something unsafe. Though like Zatchiel said, not always the best option. If the opponent has the speed or range they can hit your shield and end up out of grab range.

In my experience the opponent will land on the other side of me, especially off something like a dash attack. I need to learn to turn around as I react to it again I guess that comes with practise.

 

[Scieric]

But I feel that if they are in range, then it is the best option. Out of grab range, shieldjump NAir is a good combo starter in Speed/Buster and a good "get off me" option otherwise. Not to mention it is very fast, hits on both sides, has minimal lag and great range.

 

[Berserker.]

N-air is too slow for an OoS option. Frame 13 (from behind) says a lot. Also, buster art is not good for "get-of-me" tactics because of its lowered knockback. Buster's way of spacing is unique in a way that it keeps the opponent at mid-range due to its lowered knockback. It doesn't really keep opponents away but it keeps them at a certain distance which allows you to continuously apply pressure and rack up more damage on your opponent

 

[erico9001]

I know what you mean, I've whiffed grabs plenty of times because of that. What I've been working on is resisting the urge to shieldgrab on instinct.

Still, I don't find Shulk's shieldgrab to be very reliable at all against the more experienced players. Maybe that has something to do with it.

That's probably because they know their autocancels. Since Shulk doesn't have autocancels, Shulk mains do not learn about autocancels naturally. At least, I did not, personally. Characters with autocancels like to bait people into shield grabbing when the grab won't work. Palutena is one such character.

I think FF n-air truly sets up grab at certain percents in different arts, but I don't know how to determine that for sure. That's honestly where most of my grabs come from, next to pivot grab and tomahawking.

My grabs in arts other than Speed usually come from some sort of conditioning. Like... the person gets used to me using aerial attacks, so does not expect an empty SH -> FF -> Dash grab (oh, that's tomahawking?). Another way is the person gets used to me dashing to shield all the time and not actually approaching, so he is surprised when I do not interrupt my run and just grab him. Other instances are grab true combos like FF NAir -> Grab or Dash Grab, which you said, or D-tilt -> Dash grab. Maybe a follow up like Buster U-tilt -> Grab too. Oh, and if I notice my opponent is very shield happy, I will just plain approach with a grab without conditioning. Lastly, I grab for punishes.

 

[Scieric]

Also, buster art is not good for "get-of-me" tactics because of its lowered knockback. Buster's way of spacing is unique in a way that it keeps the opponent at mid-range due to its lowered knockback.

That's not what I meant. I meant a good "get-off-me" option if you aren't in Speed or Buster.

 

[Berserker.]

That's not what I meant. I meant a good "get-off-me" option if you aren't in Speed or Buster.

Oops, but even if it's not in speed or buster, n-air is far from being a good option against close range pressure. It comes out really late. Your better off with jab, grab, pivot grab, OoS air slash or pivot f-tilt/f-smash.

 

[Scieric]

But with jab, pivot grab and pivot f-tilt/f-smash, you have to iundergo sheild drop. Grab is the best option if they are in range, otherwise stick to AS.

 

[Berserker.]

The thing is, Shulk's OoS options are mostly risky. Not bad at all but they're all risky in their own way. I mean, his only options out of shield are either air slash, u-smash, or grab. The first 2 being risky because they're really punishable. The last one being unreliable due to Shulk's standing grab range. You can't really rely on Shulk's OoS options when they're all either unsafe or unreliable.

 

[Scieric]

That's why Shulk really suffers against shield pressure. I feel that Jump is he best because of this since it can hold its own anyway, but you can't be locked into your poor OoS game if you're in the Air.

 

[Berserker.]

Okay guys. I've been thinking about this for a while now. We all know that shield art reduces knockback and damage taken which also affects the amount of hitsun taken right?

WELL, I was thinking of a thread dedicated to this topic. There's an organized method of going about this project. We do these character by character, move by move. We list which moves can be used off from the hitsun taken during shield art. This seems like a daunting project though like this one: http://smashboards.com/threads/buster-attacks-and-their-safety-on-hit-open-to-help.392127/

but both these ideas/projects are REALLY important for us. We need to know the info about these. Just saying. I'd love to help but at the moment, I'm unable to do much because of my limited resources :<

 

[Zatchiel]

That's why Shulk really suffers against shield pressure. I feel that Jump is he best because of this since it can hold its own anyway, but you can't be locked into your poor OoS game if you're in the Air.

Jump helps, but not as much as you might think. In the art, it is more difficult to keep Shulk pinned in shield since he can basically fly out of harm's way, as you said, but in turn that really exposes him to landing traps. So it's still a gamble.

You're usually going to be fighting shield pressure with shield pressure in order to get the opponent off of you. For that reason, Buster really does shine against a defensive opponent. Just be extremely cautious when dealing with shields. I mean, anyone's shield.

Okay guys. I've been thinking about this for a while now. We all know that shield art reduces knockback and damage taken which also affects the amount of hitsun taken right?

WELL, I was thinking of a thread dedicated to this topic. There's an organized method of going about this project. We do these character by character, move by move. We list which moves can be used off from the hitsun taken during shield art. This seems like a daunting project though like this one: http://smashboards.com/threads/buster-attacks-and-their-safety-on-hit-open-to-help.392127/

but both these ideas/projects are REALLY important for us. We need to know the info about these. Just saying. I'd love to help but at the moment, I'm unable to do much because of my limited resources :<

That seems unnecessary. If anyone has the tools, I think a short video detailing this would be less work, and more helpful.

The amount of damage taken in Shield is multiplied by about 0.7 (? correct me if I'm mistaken). So even regardless of our weight, we take less knockback from attacks, and that affects hitstun consequentially.

So in Shield stance, we're always able to act out of hitstun earlier than we would've been able to otherwise, if at all possible. When you're getting juggled at higher percents in Shield mode, it's because the difference in hitstun is becoming less significant (not changing, just doing you less good), and your weight is keeping you low enough for the juggle to continue.

In short: Someone should make a video explaining the perks of Shield at both below and over 100%, getting mathematical where it's called for. Briefly touch on the downsides, since there aren't many but the few are ****ing massive.

If nobody can or wants to do that, then I'm not completely opposed to the idea of a thread. I think a thread on it should contain a handful of explanations, some demonstrations, and minimal calculations. It shouldn't be nearly as much work as that thread on Buster.

 

[gridatttack]

So I just found out that if you keep pressing forward and execute the second strike of up b late, you advance more horizontally if you press the direction you are facing. I helped me reach where I couldn't before in most cases.

Wish i noticed sooner :<

 

[erico9001]

The thing is, Shulk's OoS options are mostly risky. Not bad at all but they're all risky in their own way. I mean, his only options out of shield are either air slash, u-smash, or grab. The first 2 being risky because they're really punishable. The last one being unreliable due to Shulk's standing grab range. You can't really rely on Shulk's OoS options when they're all either unsafe or unreliable.

One reason I like AAS, actually. It is much safer both on hit and whiff because of the more horizontal knockback and no reduction in air speed after its use. Also, it's more reliable thanks to working on almost all the cast, even Jigglypuff and (regular) Shield Shulk. Bowser and Fox are both hit even when in Monado Jump.

So I just found out that if you keep pressing forward and execute the second strike of up b, you advance more horizontally if you press the direction you are facing. I helped me reach where I couldn't before in most cases.

Wish i noticed sooner :<

That helps a small bit, but what helps much more is delaying the pressing of B the second time while you drift horizontally towards the stage. It helps recovery very much.

 

[gridatttack]

That helps a small bit, but what helps much more is delaying the pressing of B the second time while you drift horizontally towards the stage. It helps recovery very much.

Thats what I meant, forgot to add the slowly on the post :v

Though, it seems a bit risky depending where to use, since you could easily be spiked.

Still, it helps in some cases.

 

[Berserker.]

B-air is now my personal favorite aerial. Even more than n-air. For many reasons. Well, the landing lag and start up are turn offs but the range and damage is really what makes b-air. Since the moveset discussion thread won't tackle b-air anytime soon, I'll just preemptively make my post about b-air right now.

B-air
Hitbox active: 18-20 / 21-22
Damage: 12 / 8
FAF: 55
Angle: 361

B-air is pretty much one of Shulk's best moves despite its start up. It's also extremely important to Shulk's spacing due to its tremendous range. B-air has one of the longest range among any move in the game. If well spaced, you can beat out any move in the game using b-air (except invincibility and counters of course). Solely because of its range, b-air has a ton of utility and to top it off, b-air also deals a lot of damage (12% sweetspotted, 8% sourspotted). Be wary of the start up, end lag and landing lag though.

B-air has multiple uses which we'll go over one by one:
1) Spacing
2) Tech chasing/get-up retaliation
3) Ledge trapping
4) Going against campers

For spacing, well this is obvious but anyway. Spacing with b-air is a lot less straight forward than you'd think. The start up makes it feel awkward to use at first. The first thing you need to do to get over it is to learn how to use b-air while FF'ing at the right time such that the hitbox comes out before it disappears via landing lag. But anyway, even if you get the timing of using b-air, you still need to learn how to properly utilize right for spacing. DO NOT SPAM B-AIR OR USE IT OUT OF NO WHERE. If you keep spamming it, foes can easily shield/powershield it and punish the lag quite hard. The best way to utilize b-air is to use it to contest approaches and basically any attack. If you notice your opponent rushing in with a dash attack or an SH aerial, you can perform a retreating b-air to easily outrange or shut down whatever they do. It's also usable for tech chasing because of its sheer range, you can actually catch rolls with b-air if you manage to predict the direction of the roll. Although you'll have to use b-air early due to its start up. The easiest way to catch opponents off their rolls is by maintaining a certain distance from the opponent while they're lying on the ground or while they're teching. You need to keep yourself from a distance such that if ever they roll to the opposite direction, you can catch them off by performing a RAR b-air. If they get up or perform a get-up attack, you can shut that down easily with an SH B-air (short hop a bit forward though to be sure). If they roll at your direction, well.... just b-air them. Using b-air for ledge trapping works the same way as how you deal with tech chasing using b-air. B-air is effective against ledge rolls, ledge get-ups and ledge attacks. It CAN work against ledge hops but that requires timing and precision with the slightly angled hitbox (b-air's hitbox in generally isn't totally straight. Slightly slanted but not that much). RAR b-airs are also a thing against campers. B-air's range is so long, you can thrash through projectiles with it while also hitting opponents in the process if you space it right so in a way, b-air is quite a potent option for rushing through projectiles. It requires a good understanding, precision and timing of its hitbox though.

B-air also lends itself to being good for sealing stocks and gimping opponents. Other than those uses mentioned earlier, b-air's knockback is very impressive. You can use b-air to KO opponents. B-air is also good for edgeguarding. You can use its range to beat out recoveries. You can mix it up with f-air too in case b-air gets too predictable (it's also kinda easy to react to since it's frame 18).

With arts, b-air's utility changes obviously. It has notable changes with buster, jump and speed. In buster, b-air becomes safe on shield. It becomes one of your main tools in your mid-range offense. In addition to that, its increased damage output allows you to destroy more projectiles with on par or less damage output than it. With speed art, basically the increased air mobility and acceleration allows RAR b-airs and retreating b-airs to be much more reliable than usual so it's easier to catch opponents off their tech rolls/get-ups and it's also easier to use RAR b-air against campers because of this. With jump art, you can take advantage of jump's increased recovery capabilities and fall speed when you're off-stage. You can basically try to land b-air off stage without fearing that you won't be able to return back on-stage.

B-air is also the most frequently used aerial with MALLC. MALLC cancels landing lag which solves one of b-air's main issues: the landing lag (21 frames is gross). B-air basically becomes a safe and free-to-use hitbox with MALLC. With MALLC b-air, you can combo off a hitconfirm or even a hit-on-shield with a dash grab or f-tilt or basically any move you can think of. Make sure you space well though because even if you manage to pull off MALLC with b-air, if you execute it up close to the opponent, don't expect yourself to have much options because your frame data is garbage.

B-air is an amazing tool for Shulk. Despite its start up and end lag (plus landing lag), its range is what makes it truly shine. B-air's range alone makes it useful in a lot of situations (ledge trapping, tech chasing, going against campers, spacing, etc.) and the arts further modify the rewards and utility of b-air. Learn to love b-air (like how you love n-air and f-air).

--

 

[kenniky]

WOw don't double post GEEZ

What are you guys talking about right now anyway? I haven't really checked in on this thread for a while

 

[Berserker.]

WOw don't double post GEEZ

What are you guys talking about right now anyway? I haven't really checked in on this thread for a while

I double post to bump things.

Then I merge it once someone replies

I'll probably bring up something soon since I have a tournament today

Edit: My OP needs some SERIOUS updating

 

[gridatttack]

Yeah, I agree B-air is amazing.

Pretty much when you chase people around, and you fastfall and execute B-air, so you hit with the initial hitbox. It catches some people offguard since shulk doesn't seems to be attacking.

I feel B-air is the strongest option when attacking in the air, IIRC D-air does more damage if the two hits connect, but using that for this case is not good.

 

[Berserker.]

A lot of what I have to say is old news tbh but I wanna vent it out somewhere

Buster and shield are great. Mostly buster. Buster b-air is amazing. Land it cleanly and you get a free follow up to f-tilt or d-tilt or jab. It's also really safe on shield for as long as you space it right. Tbh, most of the rest of the things I was about to say is something you guys know about buster. It isn't risky at all. If your spacing is on point and if your using the right moves (b-aaaaaair) then buster is amazing. Watch out for the campers (**** customs villager). If you use this while not being at range then your probably going to regret it. Like a lot. You won't take a ton of damage (it's worse in jump) but damage is damage so yeah.

Not much to say about buster but it really helped me. The shield safety and insane damage output make buster amazing. It's not risky guys. But yeah, this is all old news.

I used shield art when I'm sure I'm going to get bodied right after racking up as much damage as possible with buster. Shield art also really messes with combos... Like a lot. It's the main reason why I somehow was able to beat Sheik. If the opponent decides to camp you out then let them. You'll be able to dictate the match to your pace. Don't be afraid to put the match into a slow down with Shield art. If they still persist on bopping you in shield, let them until you're thrown off stage.

Then again, old news again.

B-air is fantastic against anything. The range is too good. Especially against campers. Well, not Villager with customs. That trip sapling changes everything lol

 

[gridatttack]

Perhaps my biggest issue with B-air is that the hit-box isn't that much active.

IIRC, when is out after the thrust, there's a small time that the monado is at full length, but it doesn't hurt the opponents if they touch it.
This is why fast falling and time it so you trigger the landing lag right after the hit-box appears. It will got fast, so it appears that nothing came out, if you land it after the hitbox appears.

 

[Berserker.]

The only move in Shulk's arsenal that lingers is n-air. Every other move has a quick hitbox, but I can't disagree with that being an issue about b-air. You really need to be precise with it.

 

[gridatttack]

Yeah, is not really an issue, though I dont know where that quick hitbox is.

I saw a villager fell right through the beam without taking damage.