Social This Girl Ain’t No Zero -Zero Suit Samus Central

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#82
Got bopped pretty hard while using her in a tournament today. Man, I just can't get her neutral down. I swear I whiff all her aerials, and we all know her ground game is bleh. It feels rewarding to play her though, so I'm at a weird crossroad.
 

pichuthedk

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#83
A couple of things I have noticed.

1.At first I thought her side b had a blind spot hit box, however after seeing it around like 30 times I feel like the hit box is just a source spot possibly above the sweet spot or something along those lines.

2.Paralyzer seems like it has multiple stun times depending how long you hold it for, unless people have been crouch canceling it and I'm not just seeing them duck.

3. I honestly feel like they have to Nerf boost kick again I hate to admit it but I've never felt so confident hitting boost kicks in my life.
Most of the character I've hit with them just stay in it except for floaties, while it almost doesn't seem to matter if it's stale people literally just get deleted above 110 even heavy weights.

4. Some of the new muscel memory I have to learn feels a little challenging. Zair timing from ledge , having to react properly when I get sour spot side b which is literally the smash 4 custom that knocks them above you (there is definitely a guaranteed range for full hop up air > dj> boost kick there somewhere ).

Her grab game has felt the strongest for me in any iteration I feel as though I am more agressive in actually trying to grab people to make my own pace.

Being able to pummel to up throw kill% is a good QoL change.

What MU's are some of your struggling with?
Kkr is probably a really hard one with his stomach just eating stuns or even side.

Inklings are really deceptive in how they move.
 
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#84
4. Some of the new muscel memory I have to learn feels a little challenging. Zair timing from ledge , having to react properly when I get sour spot side b which is literally the smash 4 custom that knocks them above you (there is definitely a guaranteed range for full hop up air > dj> boost kick there somewhere ).
Not sure if you're mistaken or I'm just reading it wrong, but when Side B sends them above you, it's because you're holding down B. If you don't hold it, it works like it always has, but when you hold B, it sends them above you to combo.
 

DWIP

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#85
I've been playing ZSS since smush release thought I didn't played sm4sh. So far I can tell she has nothing guaranteed off grab but she has mix-ups off Dthrow depending on opponent DI and percentage. At very low percent it seems that Fthrow link into jab reset (might not work depending on DI). Close to the edge you can at low to mid percent Bthrow send the opponent off stage and link into down-B if they don't double jump instantly, again that's a mixup not sure it is a true 50/50 though. Her best combo starter is her neutral air, it combos into so much things at any percent (Nair to grab at 0, Nair to usmash at low percent, Nair to fair at mid percent etc.) Usmash comes out fast and can start a nice juggle sequence and can combos into Uair/Uair/Up-B at mid percent (can kill if started from BF top plateform). Usmash start killing around 130% depending on character weight.
Overall she looks like a combo heavy character that can deals a good amount of damages on one opening but she has a hard time finishing stocks as she lack kill moves.
 
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#86
Someone above me already said it, but holy crap, Boost Kick feels busted. I don't even mind staling her Side B because I know I can just Up B to take the stock. In light of her lack of kill moves I'm praying they don't touch the move in any future patches. Doing Boost Kick out of shield or running up to do it for a punish feels way too good.
 

IsmaR

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#87
I'm loving her more than I have since Brawl/pre-nerf Smash 4 ZSS.

Getting used to the whip changes is admittedly taking some time (holding side B pops them up, according to an in-game tip, while normal side B is like Brawl's) especially since it is so slow while recovering (muscle memory got me killed a lot early on).

That all said, I went undefeated/used only her while playing to unlock Elite Smash. Labbing her/planning on using her for some friendlies/locals in the near future.
 

DWIP

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#88
As I said earlier it seems her best combo starter is her Nair but in order to hit a grounded opponent you have to delay the input for a late Nair. it makes it really hard to use as an approaching tool, I had an easier time landing it after a retreating back jump.

Also it seems that instant SH fair will catch airborne opponent approaching or retreating. Can also be overshot to catch opponent rolling back. Only the first hit of fair would hit If fast falled.

Right now she feels like a upper-mid tier character and a newbie buster as bad DI can end your stock early against her ( I destroyed some guys because they would DI in when offstage allowing me to combo into a stock ender fair)
 
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#89
Got bopped pretty hard while using her in a tournament today. Man, I just can't get her neutral down. I swear I whiff all her aerials, and we all know her ground game is bleh. It feels rewarding to play her though, so I'm at a weird crossroad.
You are probably throwing them out to early I noticed a change in Aerials I've been landing with her seem changed.

Must. Be the buffer
 
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#92
Played around with her some more. She's starting to come around on me in this game. Her dash dance is crazy to me, as well as pivot grab. Yeah, Nair is the truth. Shout outs to everyone here mentioning it. I wish Uair did a tad bit more knockback to justify them slowing it down so much. Fair is so good as an edgeguard. Characters with bad recoveries like Richter or Chrom get eaten for breakfast by it.

You are probably throwing them out to early I noticed a change in Aerials I've been landing with her seem changed.

Must. Be the buffer
Yeah, this was true. You just have to delay all her stuff which is weird to me. It's not really an issue now though after some practice. Thanks.
 
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#93
I'm realllllllly not feeling good with this character. She feels like she has no neutral game, and even when she gets advantage her combo game literally just stops working if the opponent DIs even just OK and jumps or airdodges out. I would even go so far as to say she's the single most nerfed top tier from Smash 4 to Ultimate, in my opinion. What does she even actually get from throws in this game? I want to like her again, but I feel like I'm missing something.
 
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#94
I'm realllllllly not feeling good with this character. She feels like she has no neutral game, and even when she gets advantage her combo game literally just stops working if the opponent DIs even just OK and jumps or airdodges out. I would even go so far as to say she's the single most nerfed top tier from Smash 4 to Ultimate, in my opinion. What does she even actually get from throws in this game? I want to like her again, but I feel like I'm missing something.
Her neutral game is still lack luster, not because of nerfs IMO.
More to do with some of the same consistency problems you have when playing her.

-People falling out of up smash /up tilt
even heavy weights are getting out and landing in front of me to get a free punish.

-Everyone and their mother still destroys paralyzer fully charged like it's nothing.

-Downsmash is literally boarder line useless at 0 most of the time.

-side be not doing all the hits once the first ones hit sometimes.

+Also down air not always bringing them to the second hit box..

I'll try to post some of what I'm finding success with these days when I get home from work, but take it with a grain of salt I have to play a lot of wifi.

Only went to 3 tournaments and didn't see any placing I was pretty satisfied with.
 
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#95
Her neutral game is still lack luster, not because of nerfs IMO.
More to do with some of the same consistency problems you have when playing her.

-People falling out of up smash /up tilt
even heavy weights are getting out and landing in front of me to get a free punish.

-Everyone and their mother still destroys paralyzer fully charged like it's nothing.

-Downsmash is literally boarder line useless at 0 most of the time.

-side be not doing all the hits once the first ones hit sometimes.

+Also down air not always bringing them to the second hit box..

I'll try to post some of what I'm finding success with these days when I get home from work, but take it with a grain of salt I have to play a lot of wifi.

Only went to 3 tournaments and didn't see any placing I was pretty satisfied with.
I can't even consistently get true combos that amount to much on the rare occasion I do win neutral. I've mostly dropped her, unfortunately.
 

Mikazuki

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#96
I love her, but damn the range of Up-B got nerfed way too hard. It's her only good out of shield option, but if the opponent isn't standing right next to her, it whiffs everytime. At least the ladder combo is fairly reliable. Also the platform mechanics make her down-b even more janky than ever. I rage every time, when I land on a platform after I land the bury. Until I get down, the enemy has already freed himself. Side-B is pretty great though and a great tool for punishing rolls. Kills fairly early as well.

Let's not talk about her tether recovery range... too many SDs...
 
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#97
I love her, but damn the range of Up-B got nerfed way too hard. It's her only good out of shield option, but if the opponent isn't standing right next to her, it whiffs everytime. At least the ladder combo is fairly reliable. Also the platform mechanics make her down-b even more janky than ever. I rage every time, when I land on a platform after I land the bury. Until I get down, the enemy has already freed himself. Side-B is pretty great though and a great tool for punishing rolls. Kills fairly early as well.

Let's not talk about her tether recovery range... too many SDs...
up smash OoS is pretty good depending what direction your facing at almost all %s you usually get an up air chase.
up tilt is good if you are getting the parry.
You could also just flip jump out to reset the situation.
I guess jab1 -> pivot grab out of shield.

Justin Allen Goldschmidt Justin Allen Goldschmidt I've been successful stuffing peoples approach with instant fairs.
As well as abusing that first low % grab game she has f-throw ->tech chase regrab.
 
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#98
up smash OoS is pretty good depending what direction your facing at almost all %s you usually get an up air chase.
up tilt is good if you are getting the parry.
You could also just flip jump out to reset the situation.
I guess jab1 -> pivot grab out of shield.

Justin Allen Goldschmidt Justin Allen Goldschmidt I've been successful stuffing peoples approach with instant fairs.
As well as abusing that first low % grab game she has f-throw ->tech chase regrab.
I guess I need to drastically alter how I played her in the last two games. I'm not used to *being* approached as ZSS, but it's probably not as bad as I think once I practice a different playstyle.
 

Gemba Board

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#99
I'm realllllllly not feeling good with this character. She feels like she has no neutral game, and even when she gets advantage her combo game literally just stops working if the opponent DIs even just OK and jumps or airdodges out. I would even go so far as to say she's the single most nerfed top tier from Smash 4 to Ultimate, in my opinion. What does she even actually get from throws in this game? I want to like her again, but I feel like I'm missing something.
She's not this bad imo. I'm liking her more and more as time goes by. Her initial dash is the fastest in the game and makes dash dancing ridiculously effective for moving in and out of threat range; zss neutral feels good to me because of this. Dash canceling jab1, utilt, and dtilt is great. Zoning with zair is good, too.. we can confirm into dash cancel gentlemen to push someone to the ledge or offstage altogether. Speaking of the ledge, we get kill confirms starting at 40%s. When Nair > down b stops working, nair > rar bair kinda makes up for this. At higher %s shff fair1 becomes outright lethal for the confirm into down b. The wide range of %s your opponent needs to worry about dying is scary.

Have you tried fthrow tech chase? Starting at around 17% (on average) the opponent needs to start teching fthrow. You can punish these with just about anything, but the most interesting thing about this situation is when they miss the tech. This happens a lot; fthrow at this % reminds me of MK dtilt at high %. The low trajectory angle is difficult to react to. You could buffer a dash > jab1 *jab locked* > jab2 > dtilt > ???. If you do the attack cancel for instant rar bair, it's true at lower %. The momentum drift you maintain from attack cancel can lead to more bairs off stage. You could also go into uair spam after dtilt, it's not true with DI, but lets be honest, air dodging here is bad for them and I've only traded with aerials as fast as yoshi's nair, but we can beat that too with spacing and/or baiting.
I don't think zss wants to take stocks with flurries of true combos. Rather, we want to place the opponent in hard-to-deal-with situations. Making them feel like it's okay to drop shield and push buttons near that ledge at 40%. Forcing disadvantage is where she shines. imo, of course.
 

pichuthedk

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She's not this bad imo. I'm liking her more and more as time goes by. Her initial dash is the fastest in the game and makes dash dancing ridiculously effective for moving in and out of threat range; zss neutral feels good to me because of this. Dash canceling jab1, utilt, and dtilt is great. Zoning with zair is good, too.. we can confirm into dash cancel gentlemen to push someone to the ledge or offstage altogether. Speaking of the ledge, we get kill confirms starting at 40%s. When Nair > down b stops working, nair > rar bair kinda makes up for this. At higher %s shff fair1 becomes outright lethal for the confirm into down b. The wide range of %s your opponent needs to worry about dying is scary.

Have you tried fthrow tech chase? Starting at around 17% (on average) the opponent needs to start teching fthrow. You can punish these with just about anything, but the most interesting thing about this situation is when they miss the tech. This happens a lot; fthrow at this % reminds me of MK dtilt at high %. The low trajectory angle is difficult to react to. You could buffer a dash > jab1 *jab locked* > jab2 > dtilt > ???. If you do the attack cancel for instant rar bair, it's true at lower %. The momentum drift you maintain from attack cancel can lead to more bairs off stage. You could also go into uair spam after dtilt, it's not true with DI, but lets be honest, air dodging here is bad for them and I've only traded with aerials as fast as yoshi's nair, but we can beat that too with spacing and/or baiting.
I don't think zss wants to take stocks with flurries of true combos. Rather, we want to place the opponent in hard-to-deal-with situations. Making them feel like it's okay to drop shield and push buttons near that ledge at 40%. Forcing disadvantage is where she shines. imo, of course.
I like the idea of the tech chase lock , I feel like her jab hits really high and you can miss a lot of people IMO. You can catch people's rolls with it though . However I feel like a smash , side b or boost kick would be better punishes.
I've tried attack cancel but I really don't think I am doing it right I wish I could figure it out, My tech skill has just been deteriorating since I took too many hiatus's in smash 4.

I don't think zss wants to take stocks with flurries of true combos.
Definitely agree. I have been tinkering with the idea of playing zss like post shiek nerfs in smash 4 , Just keep trying to win neutral exchanges but have random kill confirms via flip kick ,boost kick ect.
 
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What's better for her movement on the ground? Fox trotting or just running ? I'm looking to make myself a lot more comfortable with movement.


Trying to reduce the ammount of punishes I take for not spacing fast enough.
 

IsmaR

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Fox trot is good for fakeouts/mix ups, running is better for larger stages/chasing.

I like the throw out a lot of empty jumps to bait them into getting within Z-air/reverse Paralyzer range.
 
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Sour spot of fsmash was nerfed and so was undamaged burial. It burys longer after like 80 now anyway so she barely got changed. They prolly changed fsmash because the sour spot had more kb than the sweetspot but just had a worse angle.
 
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Sour spot of fsmash was nerfed and so was undamaged burial. It burys longer after like 80 now anyway so she barely got changed. They prolly changed fsmash because the sour spot had more kb than the sweetspot but just had a worse angle.
I'm still get punished for just landing a normal fsmash at low %. Before I don't think I every did.
At least we have patch notes and can hope for some changes.

Really wish they would fix characters di'ing out of up tilt and upsmash...
 

KingBroly

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I'm still get punished for just landing a normal fsmash at low %. Before I don't think I every did.
At least we have patch notes and can hope for some changes.

Really wish they would fix characters di'ing out of up tilt and upsmash...
It seems like holding the stick in a certain position determines which direction the character is going to go. For example, if you hold up, you'll get a Star KO instead of going off on the side.

I'm thinking that Zero Suit's Side Special can generally be used for mind games, since holding B down can pop them either back or up.
 

Teeb147

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I think zss is fine how she is. But I wouldn't mind her being buffed.
There's not a lot of characters that got buffed tho (apart from the ledge grabbing stuff)

Fsmash nerf isn't that much of a big deal, especially if it's just sour spot, but i dont think they needed to do that.
Still one of my fave characters. The only buff I really want the most is for grab to be faster. Being able to follow up on it would be nice too, but if at least grab can be more usable that'd be good enough with me.
 

pichuthedk

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It seems like holding the stick in a certain position determines which direction the character is going to go. For example, if you hold up, you'll get a Star KO instead of going off on the side.

I'm thinking that Zero Suit's Side Special can generally be used for mind games, since holding B down can pop them either back or up.
Yeah I do that sometimes when I noticed they shield a lot and try to drop punish.

It's also useful to know that you can hit someone even shield stab them on a bf platform (the way she arcs the whip up on return can reach someone's foot.

I think zss is fine how she is. But I wouldn't mind her being buffed.
There's not a lot of characters that got buffed tho (apart from the ledge grabbing stuff)

Fsmash nerf isn't that much of a big deal, especially if it's just sour spot, but i dont think they needed to do that.
Still one of my fave characters. The only buff I really want the most is for grab to be faster. Being able to follow up on it would be nice too, but if at least grab can be more usable that'd be good enough with me.
I can agree fsmash Nerf isn't that bad but I think it's ridiculous to get punished for low% sour spot fsmash. - I can't remember who it was but it they literally just took it to the face and instantly walked over and started comboing me- .
 
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I didn't play smash 4 much, I'm trying to play ultimate now and zss feels super weird to me for a bunch of reasons:

1. Her aerials are pretty slow
2. All of her hitboxes are bad, sometimes I think for sure I hit a guy and it just goes through them or something... and don't link together as well as I'd like, fair utilt fsmash sometimes etc
3. Out of shield options vs short characters are non-existant, utilt and jab literally go over characters like pichu, particularly if he ungas into my shield with back air...If he fsmashes my shield i cant punish it at certain ranges, it's dumb

Maybe I'm just ****ty, any advice is accepted gladly
 
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