Things you feel are wrong in SSB4?

[Iko MattOrr]

You can't tell me that stuff from the Super Nintendo to the Gamecube is being ignored because that isn't true, just check some of the stages we got. And besides, a lot of the references you mentioned are found in previous Smash games, they had their chance before and they sure used it, obviously they wanted to show off some of their new stuff now. Time goes on so it kind of puzzles me that some people feel outraged when they use a lot of modern times reference material instead of the older one that has been used already multiple times in the previous Smash games.

So yes, most fans wanted a game that represented the history of Nintendo, and I say that we got it.

And please, "lots of clones"? Since when three clones in a 51 roster is a lot? Better check your math on that one. I get that there can be valid criticism but I can't help but roll my eyes when people overblow the quantity of clones, because that just screams desperation to find something to complain about.

I'm trying to be nice but I think that your post is just criticizing my opinion instead of posting your own opinion on the argument.
Valid criticism or not, the topic of the thread is not to decide if somene's opinion is valid or not.
I have my reasons for posting what I posted before.

 

[smashbroskilla]

For real even with that she's still fairly awful. Still my main though because I think she's fun to play regardless of how good or bad she is.

She's not bad at all. Her up+B is quite powerful. Is that a .gif of yourself? If so that's funny.

 

[PhoenixRiku]

The amount of characters that have a counter move in the game. Feel like there could have been better move set options than giving everyone a counter.

 

[WT!]

1) Rolling is OP
2) The new ledge
3) The shield slide-back

 

[Grackin]

This thread is clearly about game mechanics, but I figured I'd throw one of my complaints in the pool. The big complaint I have outside some of the things others have already mentioned is the way music/sounds work. I went through all the songs and made a playlist. What I imagined for this playlist was that it would start playing on the mode I choose (shuffle, repeat, ect) upon startup of the game and would persist through every facet of the game. The reality is that when you go 1 screen back from the sound screen, your song stops and the generic menu music plays. 1 menu back from that, your first song restarts, then 2 menus forward your song stops again for the generic character select music. Your custom playlist also doesn't play during stages, so what's the point of having the playlist? So you can turn it on while you clean your house? How silly.

Pedantic point #2: The fact that names don't persist.

Also, the fact that mega man has a mediocre moveset is also annoying. He has the most vast selection of abilities in the history of gaming yet they chose pretty bland ones. Why didn't they merge the character with mega man x, give alternate costumes for each of the mega man games, and give him the coolest abilities from his whole franchise.

 

[Ulevo]

One thing that really bothers me is the combination of the new ledge mechanics and the over saturation of recovery options. The ledge hardly feels relevant anymore.

Another thing that bothers me is that because of the lack of movement options, with no dash cancelling or dancing, and no L-Cancelling, characters will largely be tiered based off of their ability to either zone with projectiles, huge hit boxes, or with aerials that are simply faster on recovery. This condemns characters like Ganondorf, who have no projectile game or safer aerials, to be forever terrible. Though Ganondorf has a slew of other issues.

On observation the game has impressed me compared to what I thought it would turn out to be, but it's very disappointing to see these problems when they're so easily fixed with very few systemic changes.

 

[guedes the brawler]

Isnt Chrom a swordfighter?

isn't Robin?

 

[Gameboi834]

Shulk's 1.0.4 buffs that were COMPLETELY unnecessary

 

[Jarret (The one in 3DS)]

I wouldn't exactly say it feels wrong, but I think that the down A attack is a bit odd. Even more so when your opponent is highly damaged and you down A them when they're off the stage. I don't mind that, I find it fun to try and I'll admit I've had that happen to me quite a lot, but it does seem a bit strange that a simple down A attack has the potential to send players to their death when their percentage is 40% or higher.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I'm trying to be nice but I think that your post is just criticizing my opinion instead of posting your own opinion on the argument.
Valid criticism or not, the topic of the thread is not to decide if somene's opinion is valid or not.
I have my reasons for posting what I posted before.

You are free to post your own opinion for sure. It doesn't make it immune to criticism though.

 

[xExcel]

isn't Robin?

ngga what?

 

[M.C.Jeducation]

Still...No...Ridley...

 

[tm730]

The Game is much slower then Brawl, makes playing Fox difficult for me D:

the 3DS version holds back the Wii U version immensely.

To many clone characters that -could've- been unique, but didn't have time or Sakurai just didn't want to.

Smash Run/Smash Tour are worthless imho

No Story Mode despite the perfect chance for one involving Master Core.

Thats to name a few.

the game isnt slower

Fox's speed just doesnt stand out as much or he himself slower in this one

idk which one but no way is the actual game slower

 

[Saito]

isn't Robin?

But he is no ordinary swordsman!

-------------

My only problem with the game is normal dash dancing being gone.

Maybe the buffer as well.

 

[GunGunW]

Smash Tour and Smash Run aren't that fun, at least to me anyway.

 

[KGB]

The super armor for every effin' smash attack on Little Mac. I mean, he's already freaking fast :/

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

The super armor for every effin' smash attack on Little Mac. I mean, he's already freaking fast :/

Theres nothing wrong with macs super amrour imo...

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

isn't Robin?

A magic swordsman.

 

[Deleted member]

Classic Mode having the same difficulty-setup as Kid Icarus Uprising.

I'm all for 9.0 being cheap as a duck, but I've never been a fan of the game decreasing its difficulty due to that factor. It's especially taxing because the whole Master fight has a lot of potential to OHKO your fighter not only in 1 form, but often 3-4 forms of the entire fight.

And then because of that, you lose 0.5 of the difficulty slider, and that just adds insult to injury.

I'd like it to stay challenging no matter what, thank you very much. The game should not be forced to adapt to me losing on occasion. I should be able to adapt to this difficulty, and the system makes it take longer than necessary for me to do so.

 

[The Prince L]

The new ledge system. That's it.

 

[Lemon Girl]

The magnetic ledges, now, I'm gonna be honest, I like them, but I feel like they're WAY too generous. I don't think casuals need this much help to get back to the stage, sometimes I'm at like 6 feet away from the ledge and my character just snaps into it, like what the hell? I'm happy that I survived but it feels so wrong.

 

[OmegaSorin]

The super armor for every effin' smash attack on Little Mac. I mean, he's already freaking fast :/

Theres nothing wrong with macs super amrour imo...

Mac's super armor is one of the only things he has going for him... so I have to agree with CHP, its really not that bad.

 

[OmegaSorin]

isn't Robin?

Robin isn't -just- a swordfighter...he's a mage too. Chrom isn't, he'd just be another Sword fighter with probably no uniqueness to him at all '-'

(Er whoops didn't mean to double post Sorry tired just woke up T.T)

 

[guedes the brawler]

A magic swordsman.

But he is no ordinary swordsman!

ngga what?

Still a swordsman. his sword normals are all pretty standard, "Magic" is just a fancy-looking sword that sparkles. with the exception of the Down smash there is nothing truly "magic" gameplay-wise about his swordplay.

Robin isn't -just- a swordfighter...he's a mage too. Chrom isn't, he'd just be another Sword fighter with probably no uniqueness to him at all '-'

(Er whoops didn't mean to double post Sorry tired just woke up T.T)

because Rosalina was just a blue peach like everyone guessed, right?

also, remember, playstyle is just as important to uniqueness than visuals. this is why Mac and to a lesser extent Pacman heck, Chrom could literally be FE!Roy with a different model (and perhaps no fire), it's pretty damn unique because we have no glass cannon swordsman. of course going mostly with just visuals ALSO work, as we see with WFT.

There are more weapons than just the Falchion that Chrom is able to use, this includes other swords like Killing Edges or Brave Blades, Lances and Axes (in particular throwing ones); possibly Bows as well (better fit as an item though), there is also Skills like Luna and Aegis, and items like Vulnearies. Heck, it's not impossible to have Chrom summoning one of the shepherds to assist him in battle ala Zelda with her Phantom.

Chrom totally has the potential to be more unique than the Robin we were given. but that really shouldn't matter to begin with. The point is that Sakurai's logic for not even considering Chrom is stupid and he should be ashamed of ever thinking of it.

 

[Lemon Girl]

That would be extremely forced just to put Chrom in the game. He shouldn't be using any other sword more than Falchion, that's the idea during the game, that the Lord always uses the sword/weapon bound to them. And summoning the Shepperds? really? he's not some kind of tactician/summoner thingy, he fights by his own, the only things that he should be using are his abilities, and his signature one is Aether, which Ike already has, everything else is pure customization and isn't canon to his character.
Besides you're completely ignoring the fact that Robin not only uses the Levin Sword in battle but his tomes as well, as stand-alone characters Robin is miles away more unique than Chrom, because if you want to force Chrom to use random stuff that can be equipped in-game, then you need to consider that Robin can be every class and could even SPOILERS >

Spoiler

turn into a giant god dragon.

Sakurai did the right thing.

 

[ShinyRegice]

There are more weapons than just the Falchion that Chrom is able to use, this includes other swords like Killing Edges or Brave Blades, Lances and Axes (in particular throwing ones); possibly Bows as well (better fit as an item though), there is also Skills like Luna and Aegis, and items like Vulnearies. Heck, it's not impossible to have Chrom summoning one of the shepherds to assist him in battle ala Zelda with her Phantom.

The problem is that a lot of those things don't fit Chrom very well, especially the axes, also alternative swords don't seem to open much more possibilities. Other than Falchion the only weapons I see fitting him are throwing lances, a maybe a bow. Luna is basically already covered by Marth's Shield Breaker. Also what you suggest seems too similar in concept to Link, another hero with his signature sword and a wide arsenal of various items. I not saying that Chrom doesn't have potential, but this potential overall feels less intuitive, obvious and fitting to him than Robin's with his/her starting class alone, who also doesn't have any signature weapon and thus is more flexible for weapons that fit him/her.

Who is the main character of FE13 is debatable, but I think that Robin is anyway high enough in the FE:A hierarchy to be a solid pick as a Smash character. The "Chrom is the face of Awakening" thing is mostly due to him having a fixed design, which means he's easier to use as an icon, and why he's more used than Robin in promotional material and in the game's cutscenes, but Smash doesn't care about the non-fixed design issue.

 

[JDavisR (NIX)]

No Referee Mario Alt when Little Mac is in the game

 

[Xcano]

Zero Suit Samus. Just trust me on this. I had never, ever used her before. but as soon as I started I began winning For Glory matches against much better players like that.

 

[Gameboi834]

with the exception of the Down smash there is nothing truly "magic" gameplay-wise about his swordplay.

That's like saying there's nothing projectile-based about Link/Toon Link's swordplay. Which is true, but 100% missing the point.

 

[Xcano]

Still...No...Ridley...

RODLEY2BIG

 

[praline]

Isaac isn't in the game at all.

 

[Naoshi]

No Referee Mario Alt when Little Mac is in the game

Wow, that would've been cool actually. Missed opportunity there...

 

[Xcano]

Wow, that would've been cool actually. Missed opportunity there...

The twist is that your only moves are to blow whistles and count down from ten.

 

[Golden Sun]

A magic swordsman.

a necromancord (neck-kro-man-sore)
necromancer+swordsman

 

[guedes the brawler]

That would be extremely forced just to put Chrom in the game. He shouldn't be using any other sword more than Falchion, that's the idea during the game, that the Lord always uses the sword/weapon bound to them. And summoning the Shepperds? really? he's not some kind of tactician/summoner thingy, he fights by his own, the only things that he should be using are his abilities, and his signature one is Aether, which Ike already has, everything else is pure customization and isn't canon to his character.
Besides you're completely ignoring the fact that Robin not only uses the Levin Sword in battle but his tomes as well, as stand-alone characters Robin is miles away more unique than Chrom, because if you want to force Chrom to use random stuff that can be equipped in-game, then you need to consider that Robin can be every class and could even SPOILERS > turn into a giant god dragon.
Sakurai did the right thing.

i don't see it being forced. Chrom can rightfully use these abilities via reclassing. Remebe rNosferatu? yeah. Magial-looking guy gets magical-looking weapons that he didnt have because it fits. same goes for physical-looking guy. what would be forced is giving Chrom Magicthe point isn't "what Chrom can do that Robin cannot", by the way. i never argued for that.

Chrom is a physical fighter. switching the falchion for other weapons is something you do frequently in-game, and this swtich would be either as specials (like Robin's tomes, he'd pick the wepaon, use it, and pt it awa) or as sidegrades (Falchion is balanced, while, say, the Armorslayer is stronger but slower. the different swordscould work as battering items to make it more simple, and are breakable unlike the falchion. i envision chrom using the Rapier normally, and having other swords via custom moves)

Robin never ever summoned Chrom out of nowhere, so this is hypocritical (and Chrom warps in the exact way ike and marth do, so Robin sint casting anything). "fighting by his own" is exactly why he starts out wiht Dual strike +, right? the whole point of FE13 is never fighting by yourself.

The problem is that a lot of those things don't fit Chrom very well, especially the axes, also alternative swords don't seem to open much more possibilities. Other than Falchion the only weapons I see fitting him are throwing lances, a maybe a bow. Luna is basically already covered by Marth's Shield Breaker. Also what you suggest seems too similar in concept to Link, another hero with his signature sword and a wide arsenal of various items. I not saying that Chrom doesn't have potential, but this potential overall feels less intuitive, obvious and fitting to him than Robin's with his/her starting class alone, who also doesn't have any signature weapon and thus is more flexible for weapons that fit him/her.

Who is the main character of FE13 is debatable, but I think that Robin is anyway high enough in the FE:A hierarchy to be a solid pick as a Smash character. The "Chrom is the face of Awakening" thing is mostly due to him having a fixed design, which means he's easier to use as an icon, and why he's more used than Robin in promotional material and in the game's cutscenes, but Smash doesn't care about the non-fixed design issue.

the axes i see more as custom move variations fro throwing lances. or as a castlevania-inspired up-air...

Luna's whole point is being like shield Breaker. Melee's, that is. i was thinking of lettign Chrom save the charge to make his swings more powerful. I don't see Rosalina's moveset being intuitive, obvious or fitting (treats kids like slave/10, never used galaxy kick/10)

But frankly, you bring a good point about Link. Slow, strong character based on projectile camping with special moves. now, where have we seen this recently...? Ganondorf? nah... if only.

Besides the 10 seconds of Buster shulk, i don't see a glass cannon combo-oriented swordsman anywhere, tho. Again, two things you guys forget

1- PLaystyle being unique matters
2- Having specials heavily reminiscent of other people's doesn't (Greninja being the worst offender, with Robin in fact having 2 moves who are "related" to stuff we have seen before, in thunder and Arcfire)

Playstyle is the big thing i see Chrom having for him. Whcih character was more popular iwith the masses in Brawl, Ike(AKA Link without Projectiles) or Olimar (the most unique newcomer?). You know why Ike wa spopular? his Heroic looks, simplicity, and focus on strength and Range. Glass cannons like Fox are also popular because of the speed+power thing they have going on.

Paying defensively is a legit tactic. but is usually th eless poplar one, people like to overpower the enemy with ridiculous storng blows or to run in circles around them, keeping a defense all the way through. it would be fun. and this is where i think Sakurai lost his focus. Uniqueness doesn't equal Fun. Having to keep track of everything you have at yur disposal can be frustrating at lower, more chaotic, levels of play.


I just think the treatment Chorm got was unfair. H was the protagonist (don't kid yourself, Robin wasn't directly involved in more than 2/3rds of the plot, that's not protagonist material in any story) and face of the game who saved the series and all he got in exchange? perpetual butt monkey staatus for the bigger smash audience (yeah, it's not going to go away no matter wha now) and having his abilities mocked. it's just stupid. especially with Lucian playable (read: even before being a clone she was playable as a marth alt)

 

[Deleted member 269706]

I think it's a little stupid that some characters (like Fox, Charizard, Greninja, Bowser Jr. Pac-Man) and many others) are able to use their side special attack as a "horizontal recovery", but then they're free to do whatever they like (including using their side special recovery) whereas other characters like Ike, Ganon, Captain Falcon, Meta Knight, and Villager (and Little Mac too I guess?) are left in a helpless state after using these attacks. We all know what it's like to receive extreme horizontal knock back, and need to use multiple button inputs to return to the stage, so why do some fighters get it easier than others?

The data shown below is the distance each character travels across Final Destination (from the left edge) after using their side special. For each character I jumped once (to emulated an aerial initiated attack), then initiated the attack (without charging it if the attack could be charged). I only measured the distance traveled before the character began to fall. Though if the character continued to move forwards after the attack ended (but before they began falling), I counted that distance. Bold indicates that the character is left in a helpless state after the attack finishes.

• Villager's Lloid Rocket grants indefinite distance.
• Wario's Wario Bike grants indefinite distance.
• Bowser Jr.'s Clown Cart Dash grants indefinite distance.
  
• Charizard's Flair Blitz sends Charizard across the entire stage.
• Meta Knight's Drill Rush sends MK about 6/10s of the stage.
  
• Fox's Fox Illusion sends Fox about half way across the stage.
• Falco's Falco Phantasm sends Falco about half way across the stage.
• Pikachu's Skull Bash sends Pikachu about half way across the stage. (Full charge goes to about 9/10ths of the stage length).
  
• Pac-Man's Power Pellet sends PM about half way across the stage.
  
• Pit's Upperdash Arm sends Pit about 4/10ths of the stage.
• Dark Pit's Electroshock Arm sends DP about 4/10ths of the stage.
• Luigi's Green Missile uncharged sends Luigi about 4/10ths of the stage. (Full charge goes to about 7/10ths of the stage length).
  
• Captain Falcon's Raptor Boost sends CF about 4/10ths of the stage
• Ike's Quick Draw uncharged sends Ike about 1/3rd of the stage. (Full charge goes to about 8/10ths of the stage length).
• Peach's Peach Bomber sends Peach about 1/3rd of the stage.
• Ganondorf's Flame Choke sends Ganon about 1/3rd of the stage.
• Greninja's Shadow Sneak uncharged sends Greninja about 1/10th of the stage. (Full charge goes to about 4/10ths of the stage length).

As you can see from this, the majority of the bold characters don't even travel that far after compared to most of the other fighters. While Ike can charge his attack, there are several instances where he's too far out, and too far down to make it back to the ledge regardless of how much he charges his attack (also true for Pikachu, Luigi and Greninja). On top of this, most of their recovery attacks also have a lower range compared to several of the other fighters (Meta Knight and Villager are the big exceptions here). Maybe it's just me, but I find that a little bit unfair. Hell, I've seen so many characters (not just the bolded ones) end up going off the edge due to their opponent dodging the side special attack. Most of which were able to recover, although there were a few who were left to die because of this. This also makes gimping these particular characters way easier which puts them at a big disadvantage. Once off the edge, they only have a jump and one recovery, whereas most of the other characters have a jump, and then 2 recoveries. I don't see why these characters can't just get a lot of endlag on these attacks in exchange for the same opportunity as everyone else...

Keep in mind most of this (aside from the data) is simply my opinion, please ignore it if you disagree.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Still a swordsman. his sword normals are all pretty standard, "Magic" is just a fancy-looking sword that sparkles. with the exception of the Down smash there is nothing truly "magic" gameplay-wise about his swordplay.



because Rosalina was just a blue peach like everyone guessed, right?

also, remember, playstyle is just as important to uniqueness than visuals. this is why Mac and to a lesser extent Pacman heck, Chrom could literally be FE!Roy with a different model (and perhaps no fire), it's pretty damn unique because we have no glass cannon swordsman. of course going mostly with just visuals ALSO work, as we see with WFT.

There are more weapons than just the Falchion that Chrom is able to use, this includes other swords like Killing Edges or Brave Blades, Lances and Axes (in particular throwing ones); possibly Bows as well (better fit as an item though), there is also Skills like Luna and Aegis, and items like Vulnearies. Heck, it's not impossible to have Chrom summoning one of the shepherds to assist him in battle ala Zelda with her Phantom.

Chrom totally has the potential to be more unique than the Robin we were given. but that really shouldn't matter to begin with. The point is that Sakurai's logic for not even considering Chrom is stupid and he should be ashamed of ever thinking of it.

He is a magic swordsman because he fights with swords and magic, genius. Do you forget that he carries tomes? Playing dumb to downplay a point doesn't help your argument.

Even if you have a bias towards Chrom, you can't deny that out of the Fire Emblem cast in Smash Robin stands out more due to this trait. You can talk about potential of a hypothetical moveset for sure, but at the end of the day it's merely empty words if there are no actions to back it up.

At this time it's pointless yet you insist on playing Captain Hindsight regarding Chrom's "unique" (and non-existent) moveset.

 

[MioTinto]

- The fact that there's no new Metroid playable character aside from Zero Suit Samus (Dark Samus would've been a good choice for this, and possibly Ridley as well)

>Dark Samus
"WAAAHHH, EMO SAMUS RUINED SMASH 5EVA" [side eyes DP haters]

 

[guedes the brawler]

He is a magic swordsman because he fights with swords and magic, genius. Do you forget that he carries tomes? Playing dumb to downplay a point doesn't help your argument.

Even if you have a bias towards Chrom, you can't deny that out of the Fire Emblem cast in Smash Robin stands out more due to this trait. You can talk about potential of a hypothetical moveset for sure, but at the end of the day it's merely empty words if there are no actions to back it up.

At this time it's pointless yet you insist on playing Captain Hindsight regarding Chrom's "unique" (and non-existent) moveset.

there is really nothing to say about that point. He can use magic. that's cool. just like swords, we have seen that before too. Tomes aren't any less important than the other weapon types in FE.

"standing out" shouldn't be a factor. i agree, he stands out. i don't see why that is important (to know there is more aboutFEw throphies are enough to tell you that.) or a necessity (again, we have Rosalina, who isn't drastically different in appearance to PEach, PErsonality/Role with Zelda and general looks/personality with ZSS. She got in even if she is just anothe rprincess, so this is clearly not an issue).

And what do you mean about this "actions" stuff? i'm not sakurai, sadly, Chrom can use these things, you can't deny that all i've said could be feasibly incorporate in a moveset. at the end of the day, it's unique enough to outclass Greninja in uniqueness while bringing a new playstyle (or reviving roy's old one) and this is what should matter here.

Chrom clearly has enough stuff for a good SSB moveset, i don't see how you could even deny that unless you are just albind followe ro fSakurai. even though the best possible moveset would have him in a tag team with Robin ala PTm, possibly with the "partner" doing something on the background via a special move; that'd be by far the best way to represent FEA, but 3DS/10.

 

[Golden Sun]

: I can understand characters who can camp, but a character that is base around camping is a different story. This character isn't fun to play as and annoying to fight. Its a bad gimmicky playstyle that shouldn't be encouraged.

: I just think her luma needs a 20 sec respawn time and be a bad character without luma. I mean she shouldn't be the main damage dealer she should have weak knock back moves and be almost helpless without luma.

: just take rage away from this character and he will be fair.

:I used to hate him but I just don't find him fun to fight. I say he's perfect were he is just that it's annoying that u lost a game because of a K.O Punch. But he really shouldn't be getting all the hate hes has been getting up to now.

To me this would have been the best smash if these characters wheren't part of the game. Now for a small list that should have made it in the game

Any D.K rep I mean theres like 4 other characters from that they can pick from.

Ridley being playable or just a metroid rep. People have been asking for Ridley for 14 years now. I'm impressed that nintendo is a bit to stubborn to put him in. Smash bros isn't canon.

And maybe more megaman reps but I'm just a fan asking for more. Since megaman battle network is my favorite game of all time.

Lucario is one of the weakest character without his rage at 0%, he barely does damage and cant KO if he doesn't have the rage ability and hes up against a 120%, plus its easily to counter him and his startup moves are laggy so you can dodge a lot of them, I think its a great fit for Sakurai to notice Lucario and give him a special effect.